Newly appointed Minister for Health Simon Harris
“Voltaire once commented that “the most important thing in life is to speak your mind”. That’s exactly what I did last week. At a private meeting amongst colleagues, I raised concerns about legislating for abortion in Ireland, adding that should such a scenario arise, I would have grave difficulty supporting it. The next day I read about my comments in the media.
… I have a strongly held view on this and I need to stand by that belief. I will not throw insults at others of opposing views, in the way others threw insults at me last week. In a liberal, open society which so many people talk of, guaranteeing people their right to hold a view, to make that view known and to stand by their principles is not an optional extra. Liberalism, tolerance and openness require each of us to respect the rights of others to differ with you, to have thoughts and beliefs with which you may not concur.”
Simon Harris: It’s not bigoted to have a view on abortion (Sunday Independent, July 22, 2012)
Fine Gael TD Simon Harris also sent an anxious e-mail in the final week of the campaign assuring PLC [Pro Life Campaign] that: “I am happy and proud to assure you I am pro-life.”
Mr Harris added the nervous plea of: “Please be assured of my support. I need No1 votes on Friday so I can be in a position to support these positions in Dail Eireann.”
Fine Gael junior minister Simon Harris has said he wants the right to an abortion extended to women whose babies have fatal foetal abnormalities, describing their situation as “appalling”.
In an interview with The Sunday Times, the minister of state in the Department of Finance said he believed a referendum on the eighth amendment, which gives an equal right to life to the mother and unborn, will probably be required to widen the grounds for abortion to these cases.
Minister calls for vote on 8th amendment (The Sunday Times, Sarah McInerney, December 27, 2015)
Úna Nic Gearilt writes:
Given his role new role and the push for an referendum on repealling the 8th Amendment it would be nice for Simon Harris to pick a side and stick with it…
FIGHT!
Rollingnews
You misquoted him, he actually said:
“I have a ssssstrongly held view on thisssss and I need to ssssssstand by that belief.”
Ha!
How I smiled at that lol!
Arahahahahahaha!
No Úna he is entitled to a nuanced view on an issue, and he should be allowed develop or change his position on an issue over time. It is counter-productive to break this issue into sides unnecessarily, in order to fuel a conservative/liberal culture war, look at how the yes was won on marriage equality
Agree
What they said.
I’m not a fan (of Simon Harris) but the idea that an individual can be open to moving their ideology in pursuit of improving (insert situation) can only be commended. We all have our ideas on how things are and how they work, to that point we all have our own little delusion. If everybody remained entrenched in that delusion from cradle to grave we really wouldn’t get a lot done now would we!
Its also ironic that a particular group spend a lot of time and energy attempting to change certain peoples opinions only to hammer someone when that opinion changes! What do ye want? We can only conclude from that that these people are considerably more entrenched in their own point of view than others and as such should be considered very dangerous indeed
I agree on both points. To be fair we want politicians who are open to change.
That’s a bit unfair
One can be in favour of granting termination rights to those in fatal foetal abnormality cases but opposed to abortion on demand or be strongly pro-life in general.
Cue outrage now from the usual cabal of truculent know-nothings here I guess.
Know-nothings like those of us who’ve actually been pregnant and understand the permanent impact that pregnancy can have on your life, health and finances?
Or know-nothings like people who’ll never be pregnant and haven’t the first idea about the impact?
Know nothings like gay men who comment incessantly on these sorts of topics you mean?
You’re gay? I knew it! Tip, calling people ‘mouthy queers’ won’t win you any dates.
Well said. I’m not sticking my oar in any more. I remember how hard it was to get literally any heterosexual at all to comment or come out and express an opinion around “gay issues”. My kingdom for organisations, faith groups and ‘institutes’ set up to expressly do that!
The 8th referendum should be like the marriage one where only gays could vote and none of you breeding stock had any say because you’ve no gay family members – because I’ve no sisters and lady friends.
Asinine tool.
know-nothings like people who’ll never be pregnant and haven’t the first idea about the impact?
– I didn’t write those words love
Look Jane you’ve gone and upset the gays and wakened the bear trolls with your exclusionarianism and divisiveness
condescending anonymous male talks about issues he will never experience first hand. go and poop your pants?
Like colm o Gorman?
Another man telling women what they can and can’t do with their own bodies. Smell of the You-Know-Who-stitute off him. I thought we shot them down when Renua got gutted by the electorate?
Jaysus.
That is the most stupid post I have read here today.
…most stupid, really?
Stupidist?
I regretfully support abortion and recognise that the opinion of men on the issue perhaps should hold somewhat less sway, so there’s that…
But seriously can we get past this childish view of preganacy. If the issue was about what a man does with his ejaculate or a woman with her unfertilised eggs then you’d have a valid point. We *do* live in a society that for the most part (if only recently) doesn’t give two hoots what you do with your body.
Unfortunately in this case the concern is for what you do with a clearly distinguishable, consciously questionable, entirely seperate (if dependent) entity which happens to be parasitically attached to your body.
So yeah, it’s an issue.
Our new Minister for Health.
If he is prepared to promote the views of a foreign state (The Vatican) before those of the country of which is is a citizen and legislator, that in my mind could be interpreted as a treasonous act.
I’d like to know whether or not he is a member of Opus Dei.
the 1st rule of opus dei is not to talk about……
I’d like to know if he’s just a botoxed 90 year old woman.
The Lady Melisandre
#topical
Because everybody who is against to abortion on demand is a secret member of the Great Papist Conspiracy Supercrazy?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/03/11/yes-there-are-pro-life-atheists-out-there-heres-why-im-one-of-them/
Honestly, the notion that an Irish politician might favour heavy restrictions on abortion is hardly controversial given that most Irish people have pretty conservative opinions with regard to abortion.
I’d say it’s no much people who are against abortion on demand but people who use deliberately evocative language like ‘abortion on demand’ which implies that getting an abortion is like getting a haircut and not a gut wrenching decision that can cause irreparable emotional damage.
It was actually supposed to be in quotations marks as it is in my comment below. It’s shorthand and hardly any more evocative than phrases like “pro-choice” or “pro-life” which have been used frequently here.
It definitely is. Pro life and provide choice are just labels for the sides of the conversation . ‘Abortion on demand’ literally affects the direction of the conversation because it gives a false impression of what we’re talking about; people seriously think they have to fight against a conveyer belt of dead babies bri6ght about by uncaring women who think of abortions in the same way they think of a morning after pill. It is a lie, essentially.
Every abortion is “abortion on demand” because if the woman doesn’t demand, or, you know, ask for one she doesn’t get one, regardless of whether it is for ectopic pregnancy, fatal foetal abnormalities or just because she feels she needs one.
“Honestly, the notion that an Irish politician might favour heavy restrictions on abortion is hardly controversial given that most Irish people have pretty conservative opinions with regard to abortion.”
This is no longer true, polling by Red C has shown that a huge majority support a liberalisation of abortion laws to allow for rape, FFA and other issues, with the percentage decreasing for more access – but also depending on how the question is asked.
for example:
https://www.amnesty.ie/news/amnesty-internationalred-c-poll-reveals-irish-public-want-expanded-access-abortion-be-political
But sure Amnesty is run by a man. he has no right to have an opinion.,
Nut as a man he’s very good at maths, and the article’s really about the statistics.
I believe that the easy bit of this is legislating for FFA, rape and Incest- because no reasonable person can object to this and the numbers would support any change to allow abortion in these cases. So in essence it is a false battle ground. The danger is in the detail and thats where it gets dirty.
This means we have to get into things like what other circumstances is abortion permissible. Views on this range from abortion on demand to a more limited range of circumstances. And who sets the limits? On what basis.
Potential cases will include couples who wish to abort due to inconvenience, inability to support, loss of income during pregnancy, a down syndrome diagnosis, a divorce or separation during pregnancy, None of these are easy decisions, but all are reasons given by couples who wish to terminate. Who will decide and what basis.
As someone who is completely against abortion, but who totally supports the womans right to chose, I totally understand nuanced and complex views on the matter. Im not really looking forward to the debate with the same relish as some of the keyboard warriors. Maybe I’m soft.
So maybe Harris is like most people. Well intentioned, but helplessly aware of the massive contradictions in his viewpoint. Only the extremes on both sides will be spared confusion.
They won’t legislate for rape because how would you prove it? Is it enough to report you’ve been raped, or does there have to be a successful prosecution? How will the case be prosecuted in under 24 weeks? If the rapist is found not guilty (in under 24 weeks) will the woman be forced to give birth?
Women are often accused of “crying rape” because we’re vindictive man hating feminazis. Wouldn’t we all just be crying rape anyway to get abortions the way we were all going to say we were suicidal to get them?
Right. The stats as presented in the headlines are misleading (e.g. excluding “don’t knows” when “don’t knows” are . Yes, most want liberalisation wtih regard to things like rape/incest, fatal foetal abnormalities etc. That would still be – by the standards of most countries – a conservative regime.
That was just the most recent poll. Various polls down through the last few years have all trended the same way though.
And conservative compared to other countires is a canard, in my opinion. There’s a clear desire by Irish people to liberalise abortion access here, and that’s a good thing. Repeal of the 8th amendment is the start down that road.
Ivor.
Opus Dei seek out people just like Harris, who are in positions of influence – usually Government, civil service, business, education. Very often these people are the children of current members.
It is very likely that Opus Dei contacted Harris to be a member. You can be sure the the old ladies he had coffee mornings with are deeply religious and very possible members of OD.
I have of experience of this.
I wonder how many Castle Catholics who openly pontificate about the evils of abortion have secreted their wayward daughters to England for abortions.
Oh many’s the What-Will-The-Neighbours-Say-Brigade have shipped ’em away. I recently had a cousin who turned 30th and coincidentally just about a house with her 39 year old boyfriend/partner. My uncle was heard to have held the view that “some sort of commitment should’ve been made before setting up a home.”….. seriously.
Are we really still talking about ‘Castle Catholics’?
They still exist. Those types who like to be seen to go to mass for career advancement reasons. They live more like Protestants though.
what’s a prod live like ?
I don’t see any issue
A) People are entitled to change their minds. He was what 25 in 2012? Lucinda was pro-choice in college and changed her mind.
B) Being in favour of repealing the 8th but limiting it to abortions for medical reasons isn’t contradictory.
Repealing the 8th does not guarantee pro-choice legislation. If the 8th was repealed abortion would still be illegal and it may take a long time for anything more than terminations for medical reasons.
as an aside, I think the focus on repealing the 8th is a big mistake. it’ll be successful and then that will be it – middle ireland will reckon it has done it’s bit and there won’t be any appetite to return to the issue.
Very interesting point. And all too possible.
Maybe, maybe not, but it’s literally *the* first step to doing anything at all.
Yes absolutely it’s the first step. I’m hoping some Pro-Choice people know that and if say proposed post referendum legislation doesn’t match what they want they understand the removal of the 8th is the main thing.
Well literally anything is a boost on nothing.
If it’s bad/limited legislation it can always be changed. What we need to resist is Fianna Fail’s idea of replacing the 8th with new amendment.
The problem will be if the 8th is replaced with a different constitutional ruling rather than just removed. If it is removed, abortion will still be illegal, but that can then be changed in the Dáil rather than needing a referendum. The campaign will move from engaging with the public to lobbying
I can’t envisage a government in the next 20 years that would unilaterally legislate for abortion.
80% of Irish people are in favour of liberalisation of abortion laws to some degree, it’s just that most of them don’t make it an election issue. That’s changing now and a number of candidates in the last election have noted that more and more peopel are comign to them asking them to support a repeal of the 8th.
Youth Defence/Iona/etc are very well organised and make sure that they have people contacting TDs and candidates all the time, giving the appearance of a strong pro-life/anti-choice lobby where there really isn’t one. And that’s changing rapidly.
Yep.
The removal of the 8th ammendment will mean we are not statute barred from bringing in the legislation and hopefully bring in proper legislation to bring in full abortion which is available in other countries. TD’s are pussy footing because they are scared sh!tl3ss of the anti choice crowd . Rather than acting in the best interests of the woman they act in the interest of what preserves them in office and their gold plated pension
It’s the economy stupid. Most other Issues are a sideline, including disputes about provision of bisexual toilets in primary schools.
Do you mean Transgender bathrooms? Because primary school children don’t tend to have a sexuality.
You mean they get their choice of men AND women AND their own bathrooms?!! Talk about greedy!
does that mean there are also heterosexual and homosexual toilets? How can I tell which I have?
….I was wondering how this guy with no real world experience (career politician) and more importantly no medical experience ended up as Minister for Health at 29?
Is the long dark hand is at work again?
The most difficult portfolio in the government being handed to the most inexperienced minister in the cabinet. I reckon Leo played hard ball on more health controls and they weren’t having that so they slotted Harris in at the last minute.
I’m starting to wonder if it is.
I mean putting him there seems so outlandish to me that I wonder if it actually doesn’t really matter.
Like the HSE are the ones who do the stuff.
Why does the DOH exist?
They are not expecting this government to last. None of the grown ups want it, so they hand it to the young fella so none are tainted by it come next election.
Toxic ministry is his right of passage, his turn to hold the baby. See how long new daddy lasts and how committed parent he is! Wish him success.
He is a journalist looking after the health portfolio
This means I could become minister for finance and I have a background in nothing….
Its like making a school teacher minister for finance or no wait…hang on….
I don’t like Simon Harris but we did have a doctor for Health Minister and he was terrible.
He isn’t a journalist.
He is a graduate of journalism.
In the absence of any control on the professional title of a journalist, it should be assumed that you’d need to be journaling something to be a journalist. Which he basically hasn’t done.
He is a career politician, who has sorted his ministerial pension before the age of 30.
Thank you Med Size CI stand corrected!
Ha’ eile
I think that changing his view to encompass certain scenarios is to be commended not criticised, as it shows his mind is open.
Or that he knows a general election is coming up . I make no apologies for being a cynic…
That would be my take. ‘What do you need to hear so you’ll vote for me?’
His mind is open? His mind is actually empty.
In the last government he was Minister of State at the Department of Finance with special responsibility for the Office of Public Works, Public Procurement and International Banking.
Do you remember him saying anything of note in this regard? Anything?
He seems awfully stiff.
Crippled by the guilt of frantic self pleasuring as a teen?
When he ran for Europe, I had the misfortune of meeting him on the street and shaking his hand. I’ve never shaken an adult hand that soft before – male or female. Very very creepy and off putting.
FFS i give you are new minister for health who is against giving women the healthcare that they should be guaranteed. Seriously what the fudge is wrong with western society why in the frosted pop tarts are we consigned to vote in right wing bigots? i would like to say how i already felt about simon harris before this but i can guarantee that my comment would be taken down in seconds. All i can say is if you voted FF and FG i am flipping you the bird right now.
Yes. Statistically speaking, I must know a few people who voted for either of them and that makes me sad.
I would put money on there being a lot of people out there who voted for both but aren’t willing to admit it to anyone.
The young lad is seeing sense. I hope he continues distances himself from this… “I am happy and proud to assure you I am pro-life.”
If he doesn’t, he’s just politicking… playing people for fools and telling audiences what they want to hear…. but, it looks like he is going in a sensible and just direction of calling to repealthe8th
You can accept abortion for fatal foetal abnormalities and still be pro-life/anti-choice.
The narrative suggests that he is against universal abortion access, but for abortion in the case of FFA.
Which is an entirely non-contradictory viewpoint.
When you say this “I am happy and proud to assure you I am pro-life.” to a pro-life group who do not accept fatal foetal abnormality as reason for abortion, then it is contradictory, but he’s moving away from that contradiction…… me thinks.
The whole abortion for medical reasons doesn’t wash with me.
One of the tragedies of it is people only find out relatively late, week 20 scan, that there is a significant problem.
Majority of abortions are under 9 weeks by people who don’t want to be pregnant in the first place.
That too is a reality that must be faced.
What do you mean “must be faced” as if it’s some uncomfortable truth? Have you considered the myriad of reasons someone might not want to be pregnant?
Abortion can be done in most countries up to 24 weeks…
That guy badly needs to take some iron tablets.
This. He should engage with some doctors whilst in the HSE.
There’s definitely some undiagnosed coeliac or Crohn’s disease at play here.
The minister for Health shouldn’t be bringing his personal opinions into the matter, he should focus on improving healthcare in this country, reproductive health being a priority. He can continue to personally not have abortions if he doesn’t like them
Oh FFS, that’s the whole reason there’s a debate in the first place.
Ignoring the point that the most people in Ireland consider the prenatal human to have human rights at some point very early in development is just putting your fingers in your ears. Under the Irish constitution, the unborn has a right to life and health which makes “it” one of the things that any Minister for Health – regardless of their personal opinions – must give attention to.
If you want the elected politicians to make abortion available “on demand” tomorrow, then you want them to ignore the constitution and the majority of the population who actually want heavy restrictions on abortion.
Stop hiding behind the constitution and stop saying most people oppose abortion.
You’re just a fundamentalist Catholic and this is about religion for you, not the constitution. You’re being untruthful.
Yes, Super. I am totes a fundamentalist Catholic. I also want to ban contraceptives, install the Pope as the head of state and force everybody to march to mass on Sundays. It may have been many, many moons since I’ve gone to such a place, but goddamit I will force Supercrazy to attend mass and recite the apostle creed or be burned at the stake.
clickbait gold – top trolling broadsheet
this topic is guaranteed to bring out all the d!cks of Broadsheet, and I mean all the d!cks
Is that why you are here so you can take a good look at them?
Bravo Fluffy! I would have gone for ‘Is that why you are here today?’ but I must bow to your superior retort sir.
:)
Ive been missing the last few weeks been so busy !
haha go back to bed you – ;)
I believe that the easy bit of this is legislating for FFA, rape and Incest- because no reasonable person can object to this and the numbers would support any change to allow abortion in these cases. So in essence it is a false battle ground. The danger is in the detail and thats where it gets dirty.
This means we have to get into things like what other circumstances is abortion permissible. Views on this range from abortion on demand to a more limited range of circumstances. And who sets the limits? On what basis.
Potential cases will include couples who wish to abort due to inconvenience, inability to support, loss of income during pregnancy, a down syndrome diagnosis, a divorce or separation during pregnancy, None of these are easy decisions, but all are reasons given by couples who wish to terminate. Who will decide and what basis.
As someone who is completely against abortion, but who totally supports the womans right to chose, I totally understand nuanced and complex views on the matter. Im not really looking forward to the debate with the same relish as some of the keyboard warriors. Maybe I’m soft.
So maybe Harris is like most people. Well intentioned, but helplessly aware of the massive contradictions in his viewpoint. Only the extremes on both sides will be spared confusion.
You are of a position that a lot of people are of in that they are anti abortion but are supportive of a womans right to chose. From where I am that (and this is not a personal attack on your good self) is a fairly contradictory position. It’s borne out of being so long pro life that you realise that there is a crisis of conscience and you are trying to reconcile both beliefs, it is just human nature. The situation is one that people will not fully know until they are placed in to that situation. Its like the story of a girl I know whose mother is pro life who pressured her daughter into keeping the kid even though the daughter is grown up. We need to create a culture where women know they have the power to empower themselves through their own decisions.
We need to create a culture where women know they have the power to empower themselves through their own decisions.
I actually believe no one is pro abortion, its just a reality. So to label me pro-life is a ridiculous but predictable response. Your sentence above is lovely in its intention but too fluffy for the real world we live in. Its like saying we need world peace. A culture is rooted in laws at the end of the day, and laws is what will govern our approach to abortion ultimately.
For example, would everyone who is “pro-choice” agree with a couple who wanted to terminate at 20 weeks because they decided to separate? or 21 weeks because she lost her job? Or 10 weeks because they discovered the baby had downs syndrome? Im sure most people would have contradictory feelings about each of those situations. We belittle the argument with stridency and absolutism.
Lets take those sceanrios you raised if that was me
-Terminate at 20 weeks because we wanted to seperate
Yes I might consider it if I did not feel ready to raise the child
-21 weeks if I lost a job
Yes because I need to provide for a child and if I cant then I need to take care of myself or any other kids I have first
-10 weeks with down syndrome
The quality of life for both me and the foetus I would consider to be tough and could be an undignified existence and as at ten weeks its not human but a foetus then yes I would not see a problem
Again I am not labelling you yourself but the thought process you had as being pro life but you support a womans choice. By extension of this you would be pro choice.
Well at least you are honest. However, i feel that you would be in the extreme and not representative of the majority. I think as the term limits get defined, people start to have more doubts. You will be labelled as being pro abortion on demand. Personally I am pro life and pro choice. I am happy with this contradictory position, I will struggle more than you when it comes to legislation however, as I believe that at 21 weeks, the child is developed enough to be considered a human and to abort would be killing just to enhance a lifestyle.
I propose a compromise:
How about we repeal the 7th AND the 9th and on average, the 8th will have been repealed.
Well since the 7th was about extending the franchise of the Seanad (never use) and the 9th was about stopping UK citizens voting in Ireland, I don’t think they’d be much missed.
Simple Simon says, it`s simple, long silence and cheesy grin.
Simple.