He’s Not The Messiah



From top: UK Labour Party leader  Jermey Corbyn; Dan Boyle

Whoever wins its leadership contest will likely be the last British Labour Party leader as we have known it.

Dan Boyle writes:

The British Labour Party is probably already dead. Its leadership contest is less a battle for the party’s soul than a picking over of its corpse.

The DNA of all political movements contain the genes of their eventual self destruction. With the British Labour Party we are sadly watching these genes take effect.

While most political parties are coalitions, the British Labour Party of today has become the battlefield for competing parties within their party.

The rot set in after the death of the then leader, John Smith, in 1994. In all probability Smith would have won the 1997 election from the centre left, without the Blairite Tory lite makeover that followed.

Tony Blair, in turn, was the most electorally successful Labour leader ever. It was success gained through skilful media management. He possessed a toothy charm, mixed with an eruditeness, and an affectation of managerial competence that persuaded enough of the electorate that he and Labour were electable.

His administrations were not without policy achievements but sadly they were based on policy goals centred on keeping the middle class happy whilst ignoring Labour’s working class support.

Over this hung and will linger the shadow of Iraq. The messianic zeal which Blair pursued his crusade, indifferent to his party, parliament and ultimately the British people, should put pay to his style of politics.

There are those in Labour today who continue to believe otherwise. They style themselves the ‘Progress’ group. Their credo is to never really challenge the status quo, but to gently nudge it towards a preferred change of emphasis.

Its mirror image is the ‘Momentum’ group which sees Jeremy Corbyn as its saviour. This group is clear in what it opposes. In what it opposes there much that many among the general public are also against. Where it falls down is that it is less clear in what it is it proposes.

In Jeremy Corbyn this group seems to have a perfect exponent. To all intents a decent man who is consistent in his beliefs. There is no doubt either that he has been entirely unfairly treated by what passes for a free press in Britain.

Where he has failed and seems unlikely to succeed, is that he lacks genuine leadership ability. He cannot persuade those who do not share his value system nor those who haven’t had his experiences.

The path least travelled by both these parties within this party will continued to be ignored.

The future for socialism and social democracy is not to be compliant nor is it to be dogmatic. Politics does involve compromise but it is on the when not the what. Not the how.

Whoever wins its leadership contest will likely be the last British Labour Party leader as we have known it.

The party has achieved much in its history. There is much that can be celebrated in those achievements. However it is no longer a coherent coalition of interests. Without such coherence it is difficult to see what relevance it will continue to have.

In a country seemingly intent on retreating into a cartoon version of its past as a means of succour, this is tragic.

Europe, as much as the UK, requires a strong, progressive political party in Britain. The difficulty is, like the wise Kerryman giving directions, they shouldn’t be starting from here.

Dan Boyle is a former Green Party TD and Senator. Follow Dan on Twitter: @sendboyle

Pic: Getty

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220 thoughts on “He’s Not The Messiah

  1. Sido

    I’m reading that 185,000 have “recently joined” the Labour party. And these are the 25 quid socialists as opposed to the 3 quid variety. That’s around £4.6M – now that’s what I call democracy in action!

    1. Formerly Known As @ireland.com

      Are they joining because Murdoch told them to, in order to dump Jeremy?

      1. Sido

        @ Formerly – Sorry – I’ve no idea who is joining and why. It could be Jezza’s crowd. It could be some sort of Blairite putsch. All I read was the figure which is interesting and worthy of note, in its own right.

        The opposition to Jezza is somebody called Owen who worked for 10 years at the BBC before becoming a PR for Pfizer (yikes).

        1. J

          Jezza got two E’s in his A -Levels and dropped out of a course in trade union studies at North London Polytechnic. #Justsaying. Even more of a yikes.

          1. Buswells Babe

            I have taught in a lot of third level institutions.

            I also graduated from what the sort of people who use the exam marks someone obtained in the 1960s/70s to diss them would consider one of the two best universities, if not the best, in the UK.

            Lots of people drop out of college.

            Some of them go back. Others do useful work in the world.

            Many polytechnics produce graduates who are better educated than university graduates.

            No one of Corbyn’s age should be judged by what they did or didn’t do in their teens.

        2. Lorcan Nagle

          The Parliamentary Party is doing their damndest to make sure as many of the recent sign-ups can’t vote as possible, so they seem working under the assumption the new people are Corbyn supporters at least

          1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            That’s the decision of the NEC not PLP – NEC has 3 PLP members, including the Beast of Bolsover , so on at least one count JC was fine.

          2. Lorcan Nagle

            Is there a link that spells that out? A quick google of the NEC gives me very top-level information. The article I read about removing the vote from new members did seem lay the plame with the PLP

          3. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            Sadly, it is almost impossible to find out what is really going on, both sides are idiots. But, the NEC is comprised of a mix of different labour groups, 3 seats of which are PLP whereas some NEC members are supportive of Corbyn. Must of my info on this I am getting from tidbits from journos on Twitter to be honest and then trying to piece it all together.

            Whoever made the £25 decision though is stupid. So stupid.

          4. J

            @ Buswells. I agree. The ability to pass an exams is not an indicator of intelligence. A commenter highlighted Smith’s background and I merely highlighted his. I am judging the man on his nine months as leader of the Labour party.All he has proven is that he is an incompetent and belligerent old fool.

          5. Buswell's Babe

            No you didn’t.

            You focused on one aspect of his background which was his secondary education exam results and his short third level career.

            Possibly that might be relevant when a politician is in their early 20s and has no other experience. I fail to see how you could have thought it was relevant in Corbyn’s case. The initial comment about the other candidate related to his extenstive – and recent – work experience.

            Your original comment was petty (and actually worse than that, elitist, as it implies as a general – perhaps even absolute – rule that people without third level qualifications and poor exam results are less worthy of political office generally, in circumstances where anyone with a brain knows that third level qualifications and exam results are more indicative of background than intelligence) and your subsequent response a little-girlish attempt to wallpaper the pettiness with disingenuity.

        3. Buswells Babe

          No you didn’t.

          You focused on one aspect of his background which was his secondary education exam results and his short third level career.

          Possibly that might be relevant when a politician is in their early 20s and has no other experience. I fail to see how you could have thought it was relevant in Corbyn’s case. The initial comment about the other candidate related to his extenstive – and recent – work experience.

          Your original comment was petty (and actually worse than that, elitist, as it implies as a general – perhaps even absolute – rule that people without third level qualifications and poor exam results are less worthy of political office generally, in circumstances where anyone with a brain knows that third level qualifications and exam results are more indicative of background than intelligence) and your subsequent response a little-girlish attempt to wallpaper the pettiness with disingenuity.

          1. J

            “a little-girlish attempt to wallpaper the pettiness with disingenuity.”

            Dear Buswell . My comment was a statement of fact . I did not draw any conclusion nor make any elitist comment. Corbyn has not done anything of relevance since , unless of course you confuse bland albeit unobjectionable dictums about fairness with actual working policy. I appreciate though the light touch of misogny in your use of ” little-girlish”. Rather appropriate in the circumstances . Oh what a tangled web of cotton do you weave:)

          2. J

            Oh and let us not forget that Corbyn is a middle -class boy that had every opportunity available to him in life. One should apply a certain degree of context to a comment before deeming it to be “elitist”. Corbyn represents only himself and the ahem “radicalised” middle class. But hey I am sure the experient will be all worthwhile even if does fail, because hey dear Jeremy and his cohorts won’t really be affected by indefinite Tory policy.

          3. Buswells Babe

            If you object to the term ‘little girlish’, feel free to substitute ‘twee’ instead. As a woman myself, I can attest that misogyny is a serious issue and not a term that should be thrown around to dispel genuine debate.

            My point in relation to Corbyn was that it is unfair to judge people in late middle age according to how they performed academically in their teens. It is also wrong to presume that dropping out of college is necessarily a negative thing.

            Academic institutions do not suit everyone. Sometimes they do not suit them because they are not intelligent (although many not very intelligent people manage to graduate, sometimes with quite high marks). However other reasons why people may drop out are that their views do not correspond with prevailing academic ideology, or that they have personal or financial difficulties. The same applies to performance in second level exams, with the added point that performance in such exams has been identified as very closely linked to social background and parental support.

            In Corbyn’s case I agree that the fourth reason for academic underachievement does not apply. However the second and third reasons may. If in fact he is simply not very intelligent, i would suggest that this is better assessed by referring to other aspects of his career as well, rather than simply dismissing his intelligence on the basis of his teenage career.

            The reason why I regard over-focus on second and third level performance as elitist is because it tends to necessarily perpetuate the existing system by excluding from high political office people who may have dropped out because of conflict with political ideology or because their place in the system did not provide them with the resources to qualify for or participate confldently in college or the back-up support to return to college after their personal or financial difficulties had been overcome.

            I appreciate again that not all of these apply to Corbyn but by using his exam and university performance against him you are following a line of thinking which would necessarily exclude everyone who performed badly in exams and at university from high political office. I hope this helps explain why I took issue with your comment.

          4. Buswells Babe

            Sorry, ‘conflict with prevailing academic ideology’ would probably be more appropriate than ‘conflict with political ideology’, although since Corbyn was studying politics, both terms may be applicable in his case.

    2. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

      £25 quidders are only in the last few days and I would suspect there are a few ringers in that lot.

      Still, pretty dumb thing for Labour to do but they are getting a reputation for repeatedly doing dumb things.

  2. The Real Jane

    Corbyn’s big problem seems to be his vanity. I think it’s the Dunning-Kruger effect in action – he’s so far off the pace of what a modern leader of a political party needs to do and yet he doesn’t even realise he doesn’t get it.

    1. Robert

      Vanity, is perhaps one word for it. But it could also be described as principled. Is it vainglorious to have principles in the political space? For many it is refreshing to see a personality who just doesn’t give a damn about what he “should” say or do. This infuriates a certain kind of political mainstream way of thinking that expects that politicians should become empty mouthpieces conveying the message of their sponsors. In the case of Jeremy he has no agenda but what he says is his agenda, and that of serving the people he represents. He certainly has some big problems, for instance his ideology is somewhat dated, but to be honest that is not what is his key selling point. Also, perhaps he may not be prime minister material, maybe he will hurt the labour party, but on the first point he has already done so much in opposition, and we have seen in the last few months here (Social Democrats), and in the US (Bernie Sanders) how even a strong voice of empathy for people can change the discussion, even if it doesn’t put them “in power”. On the second point I really think the Labour Party has done (and is continuing to do) more to damage itself than Corbyn or even the Tories could.

      1. The Real Jane

        Well, i think that it’s great that he’s principled. I also agree with his principles and I was delighted to see him elected. Where he falls down, I think, is that he’s not really able to manage his party in a satisfactory way. And that’s one of the jobs of party leader. He’s also a poor public speaker and pretty shocking at PMQs – being good at these things is also (I think) a requirement for an effective party leader.

        His problem is that his job isn’t just to appeal to his base. It’s also to lead a party that can appeal more broadly, look efficient and electable and not a shambles falling apart.

        1. Robert

          I think his biggest problem as parliamentary leader is that a large amount of the parliamentary party don’t want to be led where he wants to go. This is a big problem given the nature of what Labour is about: He has widespread support of the grass roots and this is not respected because of what “New Labour” has become. If the PLP is out of touch with the CLP, then there is a far deeper problem of which these issues are symptomatic.

          I’ll leave appraisal of his speeches as a matter of taste. Many including myself find the unpolished style quite refreshing. What I believe is important is he does what he says, not how he says it.

          1. The Real Jane

            Well the problem is that if you can’t inspire people to go where you lead, are you really the leader in any meaningful sense?

          2. Robert

            Also Dunning–Kruger isn’t fair, because he never wanted to go into this role himself, he was begged to do it. Similarly amidst calls to resign he stayed on only upon request.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            “I think his biggest problem as parliamentary leader is that a large amount of the parliamentary party don’t want to be led where he wants to go.”

            +lots The right wing MPs never wanted him in the first place. It’s pretty ridiculous to blame him for their petulance.

          4. The Real Jane

            So he only *looks* like a man doggedly hanging on to his role by any means possible despite an abject failure to perform several of the duties?

          5. Medium Sized C

            I agree with MoyestWithExcitement.

            He is a socialist leading a socialist party which has been taken over by the conservative left. He was never being given a chance to lead, Brexit was just the first opportunity for the fake social democrats in the party to stir up trouble.

            The sad thing is people are so utterly ignorant they can’t see it.
            The amount of fallacious clicé I see about Corbyn is depressing.

          6. The Real Jane

            So it’s in no sense the job of the party leader to lead the parliamentary party? Or speak competently on behalf of the party at the large showpiece event every week where the party leaders speak? You know, where as leader of the opposition, his chance to make an impression on the electorate happens, if he shines?

          7. MoyestWithExcitement

            “So it’s in no sense the job of the party leader to lead the parliamentary party?”

            He does lead them. It’s not his fault that peoole who never wanted him in the first place have been scheming against him. I remember the first time I saw Rubberbandits on telly. ‘I’m going to throw this snail at his house to show he can’t do something as simple as live in a house that doesn’t get snails thrown at it.’ Blaming him for not leading people that have actively tried to stop him leading from day 1 is ridiculous. Borderline victim blaming.

            “Or speak competently on behalf of the party at the large showpiece event every week where the party leaders speak?”

            He does speak competently. It’s your opinion, brought by either confirmation bias or opeds in the guardian, that he doesn’t. That he doesn’t speak well in your *opinion* does not mean he’s “failing his duties” ffs. That’s pure spin.

          8. The Real Jane

            *Blaming him for not leading people that have actively tried to stop him leading from day 1 is ridiculous. Borderline victim blaming.*

            I am leading. It’s just that no-one is following.

            Listen, I understand that you lads are keen on him and that’s great. But to deny that organisation is not his main talent is insane. Nobody is great at everything, and I’m sure someone will deny that organisational and administrative skills are part of being an effective party leader, but they are. And you’ve got to be able to find a way to bring people with you, which he has consistently failed to do. He retains the support of the people who voted for him but he appears to have been unable to win any converts or bring the PLP with him. Maybe they are all agin’ him unfairly. But if he wants to lead, he has to overcome that. The fact that he can’t might mean he’s not a leader, it might mean that they’re all meanies who don’t deserve him. But the bottom line is that the party’s not getting led.

            Teresa May made mincemeat of him yesterday, not least because he’s not a quick witted off the cuff speaker and he hasn’t really got a sense of humour. It’s OK not to be these things, but they are skills that a party leader needs to function effectively as things are. Possibly we’d all be better without 24 hour news or the telly or the internet but they aren’t going away. And he has to find a way to deal with that if he wants to lead a party for any purpose other than bolstering the self image of J, Corbyn.

          9. MoyestWithExcitement

            “But to deny that organisation is not his main talent is insane.”

            I like how the problem with Corbyn keeps changing. His detractors remind me of Trump supporters in that way. Facts don’t matter.
            ‘He’s bad at winning votes’
            ‘Well he won the same as Scotland’s much lauded leader in the last vote actually.’
            ‘He’s bad at PMQs’
            ‘Actually he’s been widely praised for his PMQs and left the new PM visibly rattled last time out.’
            ‘He’s failing in his duties’
            ‘He doesn’t have “duties” as opposition leader and it’s only your opinion he’s not performing well.’
            ‘LOOK, WE JUST DON’T LIKE HIM OK?!’

            “He retains the support of the people who voted for him but he appears to have been unable to win any converts”

            Haven’t 160,000 people signed up in the last week? Seems like he’s winning lots of people over. But of course the narrative you’re clinging to is more important than fact.

            “Teresa May made mincemeat of him yesterday”

            Wow. Ok. Narrative really does beat fact. I mean, she was visibly shaken but ok.

          10. ahjayzis

            This is the clip the country was shown on all news bulletins.

            Corbyn tackling the vital issue of the miner’s strike didn’t make it unfortunately. Nor his refusal to actually follow up questions that are unanswered, his failure to press points home.

          11. MoyestWithExcitement

            “This is the clip the country was shown on all news bulletins.”

            Clampers already posted a study on media bias against him.

          12. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            Did they follow that clip with a report about media bias? Or is this what people are seeing and making their minds up about? People have to get some perspective and reality on this.

          13. Robert

            That’s nothing but Ad Hominem. It’s also not a fair comparison at all. No boss unscrupulous or otherwise is expected to resign just because his employees don’t like her. What’s more he’d be able to fire them. But there they are, petulantly taking up seats and drawing their salaries all the while bitching away.

          14. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            Which Corbyn has been happy to do for 30 years.

            Someone made a good point the other day. As a backbencher for 30 years, why has he never ever been given anything to do? Maybe harsh but still a valid point

      2. ahjayzis

        Is it vainglorious to have principles in the political space?

        In this instance, yes. His clinging on to office is what will give May another fifteen years at least in power.

        Not because he’s a bad man, with bad ideas – but because no one is going to elect a party that cannot even fill a front bench, a Prime Minister who’s own backbenchers have no faith him in. The parliamentary party have pushed the nuclear button, if he wins again they can’t unsay what they’ve said about him. EIGHTY PERCENT of them!

        This is the UK remember, you don’t; win on share of the vote, you win by convincing a few thousand people in a few dozen constituencies to switch from Tory to Labour.

        Corbyn might do a good job increasing Labour’s majority in safe seats, but that’s no use.

        His principles combined with the PLP’s intransigence are what’s preventing a viable Labour party.

        That said Owen Smith does nothing for me either. Thinking I won’t bother voting.

        1. Robert

          Isn’t this the real problem with Labour? The fact there’s no credible leadership (Jeremy aside of course ;-) ). Just like the Irish Labour Party.

          1. ahjayzis

            Jeremy hasn’t provided any leadership.

            And yeah, I hold the wider PLP in the same contempt.

            Who the fupp is Owen Smith? If there’s a credible leader among the PLP they’re obviously holding out for the election after next.

            It’s not just leadership they’re lacking, it’s vision. Jeremy is the closest thing to a vision, but really it’s just a string of things he’s against and very little he’s in favour of – no policies basically.

          2. Robert

            It’s the dissonance between the party “leadership” and the grass roots that needs to be resolved before you will make progress.

          3. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            Robert – that is never going to happen. On one hand you have a group of people who see everyone in PLP as Red Tories or Blairites or something else just as silly and love the principles of Corbyn. On the other hand, you have people who want Labour to be elected and know that in the UK, socialism never goes down well with the electorate, that Jeremy himself won’t and that his leadership is not going anywhere fast. Then add on top of that lots of ridiculous abuse and Corbyn brushing his hands of it rather than being a leader and saying, guys stop it, all of you. It’s taken him months to come out and say something in support of his MPs, I find that shocking to be honest.

            You can’t resolve that. They will and have to split.

          4. Robert

            Most of what you said there is absolute nonsense. Agreed that full blown socialism isn’t going to go down to well with the culture that invented property rights, but that’s not a reason to write if off entirely. The NHS is one of the most successful socialist enterprises in the world. Agreed on the suitability of a split, but if that happens it won’t be Corbyn and his people that will be founding a new party. One without any grafters.

          5. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            Which bit is nonsense? The abuse being thrown around by everyone? Corbyn keeping stum? Its a complete and utter sh$%storm and its embarrassing.

            Say hello to splitting Labour and hello to Tories for the next 20 years.

          6. Robert

            If Labour can’t live up to their manifesto there is no point. It’s just swapping one set of Tories for another. May as well have Tories. The biggest losers are the Fabians.

          7. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            They can’t live up to their manifesto because Corbyn has thrown that out and there isn’t a new one or any new policies. It would have helped him with the public, PLP, CLPs, anyone generally if he had come up with some. And nothing major today either when launching his campaign. He stands for what? Social justice, no autersity, that’s great. But what does that mean and how will he make it work? Its a huge failing on his part and yes, it is him. Leader makes policies supported by cabinet, sadly he doesn’t have much of one of those anymore so I don’t see how he’s going to make anything coherent.

      3. The Real Jane

        That’s the thing. I don’t dislike him, I just don’t agree that he’s a good leader. That’s a completely different thing, I don’t really get why you’re so keen to conflate the two.

        I also don’t agree that my idea of what a good leader is keeps changing. I think the leader needs to be someone who can find a way to present a united party in parliament and to the country (takes organisational and administrative skills), present an effective opposition, particularly during showpieces like PMQs which are widely broadcast (this requires a certain kind of ability to go off piste and be relatively quick) and appeal to voters outside their natural constituency. I know you disagree with these but I think I’ve been pretty consistent in arguing that they are necessary and Corbyn isn’t very strong in these areas.

        On the outside, the party is chaotic and lacks coherence. This may not be Corbyn’s actual fault, but the result is that the party isn’t being led by him. He may be an inspiring leader of shocking brilliance, He may be as hopeless as he looks. Either way, it does not appear possible for him to lead the party as it is but the effect is the same.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          The issue is with right wing politicians in a left wing party. The issue is not with Corbyn. It’s very simple. Want right wing policies? Join the right wing party. Leave the left wing Labour party to people with left wing ideas. The party split is because it has been hijacked by the right.

          1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            My issue is with Corbyn. I think he has lots of nice ideas but no policies at all, not even today of all days. And he avoids questions of any real substance, which make him look very smug.

  3. J

    It isn’t just his lack of leaderhip ability that is lacking. He is highly incompetent . He can’t even make an interesting speech , let alone challenge the Tories. He asked for Art 50 to be invoked the day after Brexit without any plan. He is the leader of a political party not the local badge collector of good causes. The man should go. Hanging around with Tony Benn does not make him an intellectual and he should do the Labour party a favour, recognise his limitations and resign. Take “no surrender” McDim with him on the way out. His renewed sense of confidence yesterday at PMQs was quickly knocked out of him when he realised that a woman can be just as cutting and capable as a man:)

    1. Harry Molloy

      Agreed. Also, a huge part of being a good leader is surrounding yourself with good people – he’s lost most of his shadow cabinet

      1. Robert

        Since he is democratically elected leader of the Labour party, and these ministers don’t respect that democratic mandate, surely they should be thinking about setting up new party … “I can’t believe it’s not Labour” or something like that …

        1. Sido

          Yes – he was democratically elected by Union leaders and a load of people who paid three quid for the privilege.
          What of it? The real test of the validity of this democratic decision making process comes at the General Election. When a lot of people who didn’t pay three quid get to vote for free.

          1. Robert

            There isn’t any reason to believe at this time that he won’t be similarly successful there.

          2. Robert

            Also it’s not just the “three quid electorate” he has full supports of grass roots labour party (“Constitutional” Labour Party?) the people who do the ground work, in the communities, the pavement pounders, the canvassers and the people that put up the posters. Labour has had some notable electoral successes under his leadership so it’s not fair to say he’s not doing well. It has not been demonstrated. It is your conjecture, with substantial evidence to the contrary.

          3. Sido

            “There isn’t any reason to believe at this time that he won’t be similarly successful there.”
            Opinion Polls? And the real killer – the one that’s got the PLP in a sweat. The size of the Brexit vote in key Labour marginals, given a First past the post electoral system.

            No real evidence, hmmmm. But then Labour MP’s have to take notice of these things and worry about the stuff that doesn’t concern lesser mortals – like getting re-elected for instance. The First past the Post system is a harsh master.

          4. Robert

            I’ll take tangible electoral results over opinion polls these days. FPTP is part of the problem and you’re never going to reform it with politicians whose sole talent is gaming it.

    2. Robert

      Many many politicians are incompetent but they have the services of PR agencies and the media to smooth over the cracks. His status unimpeached for decades in Islington, without such supports, stands counter to your accusation. His speeches have been amazing. His performances in Prime Ministers questions have no equal that I am aware of. Regarding article 50 it is reasonable to expect that he would respect the will of the people – Theresa May has set about invoking it without a plan as yet either. I’m not sure who decides what is appropriate for a political party but I would expect that promoting “good causes”would be a good place to start.

      1. Owen C

        “His performances in Prime Ministers questions have no equal that I am aware of.”

        This is genuinely hilarious satire. Bravo.

        1. Robert

          Well isn’t that the point? He’s broadened the debate. He’s made politics relevant to a huge swathe of the population once more and all without invoking xenophia, greed or the other populist tropes of the likes of UKIP, Trump, Le Penn ….

          1. Owen C

            what has he made relevant? what policies is he proposing which have any possibility of being enacted? what is the practical ‘future’ which he is hoping to deliver? He has spouted nonsencical rhetoric and played the populist card.

          2. ahjayzis

            And Labour are 11 points behind the Tories after they’ve plunged the country into absolute chaos for party management reasons.

            Politics relevant to more people? Great. But we’d also like a Labour government, please.

          3. Robert

            Well unless you get your poop together and run the party properly under actual real Labour party principles you’re not going to have one. The behaviour of the PLP over the last few weeks has been nothing short of shambolic. The two alternatives to Corbyn? Give me a break.

        2. J

          “His speeches have been amazing” whhhhhaaaa
          Sure, if your inspiration is Trabolgan camp leader back in 2000

    3. ahjayzis

      I stopped supporting him the week Ian Duncan Smith resigned and blasted the government, and Corbyn didn’t even mention it at PMQs. There’s no other word for that but rank incompetence.

      1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

        Yup. Also the budget backdown, academies backdown, taxcuts…. The claiming Khan and other elections as his doing is a total and utter joke as well.

          1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            And here we go! Typical really to throw out an insult to someone who disagrees with you rather than addressing any of those points. Now, do you want to talk like an adult?

            Budget backdown, no mention of it by JC. Political dynamite stuff. See academies, nada. Taxcuts was driven by rebel Tories, granted with Labour but also SNP support.

            How come Khan only appear once with JC while campaigning? Because he knew what it would do to the polls because people do not like JC and it would damage his chances. Though really, being up against Goldsmith was somewhat of a blessing. He wasn’t in Bristol either, hmmm. Makes you think.

            JC is my MP and I voted for him. He is a fab local MP, he is not PM material.

          2. Robert

            Casting wild speculations around as facts. Focusing on specific points of failure. No balance. Please tell me who do you think should be PM? Straw Men. Ad Homs.

            The only party leader you ever had that was “credible” was Tony Blair you should bring him back.

          3. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            “Casting wild speculations around as facts.”

            My opinion on MY MP.

            “Focusing on specific points of failure. No balance.”

            Yes, because that’s how you judge the success or failure of something Robert.

            Neither of them should or will be PM. TM has this in the bag for the foreseeable. But, I mean, do you want a go? You’re probably as good a bet as any.

          4. Robert

            Which is exactly my point. You’re as well off with Corbyn, as opposed to Anybody But

          5. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            I don’t want someone who I’m well off with. Why should that be the minimum? We deserve better. I want someone who is passionate and who can do the bloody job. That’s not Smith. But the most passion I have seen in Corbyn is in this whole fight for his job not for anything else. Yes, he will win this leadership election with one arm tied but that’s hardly surprising. He will then potter about as he is for a few years and then get absolutely completely trousered in the GE. Hopefully in that time someone with some mettle gets in there and does something because the Tories are going to absolutely roger the UK to pieces while Corbyn sits there and tries to debate something that happened 50 years ago like it is the most relevant issue of the day.

            What. A. Joke.

          6. Robert

            Who? Stop faffing around and get behind your leader, who’s been democratically elected, has strong grass roots support and rebuild labour and get to a point where (or when) a real credible alternatives emerge. Corbyn is a symptom of the deeper malaise at the hear of Labour, not it’s cause.

          7. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            As I have already stated, I do not support him as leader.

  4. LiamZero

    Have yis not got another photo of Dan Boyle? Every time I see one of his posts, my instant assumption is that some poor unfortunate has gone missing from a care home and his family are desperately worried for his safety.

    1. Caroline

      “Facebook Friend has tagged you in 47 photos in the album Boyler’s Leaving Party!!!!!”

  5. Mark Kelly

    While I know Dan would be be very knowledgeable on running a political party in to the ground. Claiming that Labour is in it’s death throes is moronic. 184,000 people joined in two day, that’s more than the entire membership of the Conservative party. Corbyn is hated by the main stream media because of his policies. He is promoting anti-austerity policies that will also be an assault on the insane levels of inequality that currently exist. If inequality is reduced, the billionaires who run the media will still be rich but there overall control of total assets will be greatly reduced and this be a massive reduction in their power. It is about power. A recent article showed that 75% of articles about Corbyn either mis-represented his views or did not contain them. It is hard to remain objective in this scenario like the by elections he has won, or the reversal on Tory welfare cuts or the reversal on the fiscal target. I don’t think Cruella DeVille is going to be a very popular leader after she described austerity as “living within your means”. That’s all well and good when unemployment is low and the economy is growing but they are currently in a liquidity trap and they need pro growth anti austerity policies that will reduce employment and increase inflation which will reduce the value of existing debt. In terms of Art 50, they need to get a deal done ASAP, otherwise the uncertainty will ensure a recession, though a recession seems likely anyway. At best they can hope for is a slightly worse deal than what they currently have as if they get anything better it would only encourage other countries to leave the EU.

    1. ahjayzis

      Membership numbers is the only benchmark?

      Is it not electoral success? Polling results? Effectiveness in parliament? We’re more than 10 points behind the Tories after their worst ever month, the party can’t fill the front bench, May eviscerated Corbyn at PMQs.

      On literally any other measure than base membership numbers Labour is spiralling towards a split or complete irrelevance.

      But nevermind all that, a load of Trots are paying dues.

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        “Is it not electoral success?”

        He won the same percentage of remain votes in Labour constituencies as Nicola Sturgeon did in hers and obviously far more than Cameron did in his.

        “Polling results?”

        Didn’t those polls say the supposedly electable Ed Milliband was going to become PM just before last GE?

        “Effectiveness in parliament?”

        What does that even mean? Sound byte friendly speeches? You should look at Theresa May’s face after she answered his question about Boris Johnson’s racism. I’d say he’s pretty effective.

        ‘On literally any other measure than base membership numbers”

        Right because the neoliberal MPs are far more important than the working class actual members of the party.

        The only thing he’s losing is the corporate media narrative which an unfortunately high amount of people gobble up.

        1. Sido

          One way of interpreting the success of the Scots Nats in Scotland is through the failure of Labour at the ballot box there. If Labour is to be relevant it must seek to retain its power base in Northern England. It must represent them and not the cozy cultural marxism of the Islington dinner party crowd.
          The only thing Labour has going for it is that UKIP might not get its act together in the North.
          An unpredictable ask – at this stage. Time will tell

        2. Spaghetti Hoop

          Dead right about the media. He’s never gonna win that snide lot over.
          Plus it’s Milliband that drove the Labour Party into the ground, not Corbyn. In England that is.

        3. ahjayzis

          Moyest, there’s something wrong with your telly reception if you don’t think May buried him at PMQs yesterday. Literally no one agrees with you. She demolished him.

          Six questions. Zero follow up. He just sets May up for quips. May didn’t answer the Boris question. Corbyn didn’t push this.

          Labour’s Remain vote was IN SPITE of him, read anything by any of the LabourIN team, his office didn’t even show up to meetings.

          Effectiveness in parliament is holding to account, shining a light on government actions. Not throwing Mao’s little red book at the Chancellor, an own goal that’ll go down in history. Not passionately arguing against settled Labour policy, like on Trident. Not having your first question to the new Tory PM being about the fupping miners strike!

          Labelling the entire partliamentary party bar the forty backing him (yet not saying they’ll vote for him!) as neoliberal’s is the equivalent of calling the Corbynistas a bunch fo Trots, it’s beneath you. Lisa Nandy isn’t a neoliberal. Jess Phillips isn’t a neoliberal.

          Please, if you want him to stay, explain to me the path to Downing Street. A broken party, a PLP that won’t serve him, a government that mocks him, a refusal to even meet the other side, a refusal to compromise. You want your totem Corbyn, because purity is more important than power.

          The definiton of middle class privilege, you can both tolerate and afford a Tory government so long as you’ve a redder than red Labour Party – plenty can’t.

          You’re either ignorant of the backward, undemocratic electoral system in the UK or blind.
          Labour needs someone, ANYONE, who can win, they need to sell their granny to win – so they can implement PR and split into a social democratic party and a socialist party.

      2. Mark Kelly

        Sure they are all Trots who want to turn the UK into communist Russia. The recent poll numbers are not good but this could be something to do with the right wing portion of the party doing everything they can to undermine his leadership and splitting in the party in the name of party unity. They were leaking his questions at PMQ’s to the Tories ffs. The party membership really seem to be out of touch with the desires of the PLP.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          “They were leaking his questions at PMQ’s to the Tories ffs.”

          Wow. Did not know that. And people are blaming Corbyn for Labour’s troubles? Jesus.

          1. J

            @ Moyest According to Michael Portillo’s cuddly , sidekick. a.k.a Diane starry beacon of the left Abbott

          2. Sido

            You’d not heard about the leaking Moyest? At the moment UK politics is the best thing since “Dallas”.

          3. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            And about as real as Dallas if it’s Diane making those claims

        2. Robert

          “The party membership really seem to be out of touch with the desires of the PLP”

          The other way round surely? The PLP is out of touch with the CLP, the membership, and it seems their wider electorate.

          1. ahjayzis

            Polling of the Labour electorate puts them increasingly on the side of the PLP, and not the membership.

          2. Robert

            This is a reasonable point, and there’s others but there’s so much smoke it’s impossible to see them.

  6. Gorev Mahagut

    “He cannot persuade those who do not share his value system nor those who haven’t had his experiences.”

    I think the genius of Corbyn is that he isn’t trying to persuade anyone of anything. He lives the “new politics”: if everyone says what they really believe, and if we all listen to each other, we can collectively make decisions for the good of all. It’s what they tried in Athens all those years ago; rule by the people, without leaders.

    Of course, if you think the “old politics” is the only way to do things, then Corbyn looks like failure. But it doesn’t matter what you think. It matters how you live. You can either be honest and respectful of others, or you can see life as a struggle where you trade your principles for alliances and try to win power over others. This is the choice that democratic societies give us.

    1. ahjayzis

      New Politics doesn’t win power in a very Old Political System.

      Standing on a street corner mumbling to any who’ll listen won’t win you a first past the post election.

      1. Robert

        But you need New Politics to reform an Old Political System – and that is the big problem here. FPTP is antiquated blox that only benefits the incumbents.

        1. Gorev Mahagut

          There is no system outside of human behaviour.
          You are responsible for your own behaviour.
          You may let others be free or you may attempt to exercise power over them.
          You may take responsibility for yourself, or give your power to another in order to blame them for wielding it.
          When you are tired of slavery you have no further need for lies.

        2. ahjayzis

          But you cannot change it unless you win it. See my point above. They need to do anything to get into power and finally introduce PR.

          1. ahjayzis

            That was AV and not PR, and the less said about the LibDems (Irish Labour UK Branch) the better!

  7. bisted

    …I have no interest in Westminister but I shall print this out and send it to my brother in London who is a labour councillor and a friend of Corbyn. No doubt they will treasure this piece of analysis from a renowned political commentator who can point to his recent sucess in boosting the fortunes of the green party in Wales…I shall wrap it in a copy of the Skibereen Eagle…

    1. The Real Jane

      Oooh, we’re in the presence of someone important, we should all stop talking, especially about things that happen In Foreign, which is none of our business.

    2. Dan Boyle

      Please do and while you’re at it ask Mr. Corbyn why he and the Labour Party abstained on Caroline Lucas’ bill on PR voting.

  8. Clampers Outside!

    Good article on the complete bias in reporting on Corbyn in the UK:

    “In many democracies across the world new political leaders get a so-called honeymoon period. As our analysis of the journalistic representation of Jeremy Corbyn’s first two months as party leader in eight national newspapers demonstrates, this did not apply to Corbyn.”


    1. MoyestWithExcitement

      Of course it didn’t. He doesn’t wear dark suits, has a beard and speaks out against austerity. He’s a big scary communist who must be stopped! Or he’s an overgrown student who’s unrealistic ideas won’t be voted for so he must be stopped. Narrative beats rationale and fact most times unfortunately.

      1. ahjayzis

        What’s the route to Downing Street? Lay out the plan. How does Corbyn win an FPTP election against May?

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          By offering a left wing alternative to neoliberalism. Pretty simple. If Labour MPs want right policies, they can join May’s right wing party.

          1. ahjayzis

            So not being able to fill a frontbench wouldn’t get in the way?

            I mean, it’s not important to look like a viable alternative government?

            People will just be okay with a PM who can’t even lead his own parliamentary party?

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            If he wins the leadership ballot, a lot of those MPs will quit, meaning Labour can field new candidates in those constituencies. The ones that don’t quit could see votes of no confidence from their local branches like Eagle did. ‘He can’t fill a front bench’ doesn’t work as a stick to beat him with. The front bench can be replaced.

          3. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            He still hasn’t filled the front bench from when everyone resigned as he only has the support of 40 MPs.

          4. ahjayzis

            How many electoral cycles are you prepared to hand to the Tories until we replace every single MP with the audacity to not pledge allegiance to the Corb?

            Honestly, THIS is your political project, purging Labour of the centre-left, the Tories can wait – while they run riot. No urgency guys, sure we’re all middle class puritans who’d rather a hard-right Tory government than a centre-left Labour.

          5. MoyestWithExcitement

            “How many electoral cycles are you prepared to hand to the Tories until we replace every single MP with the audacity to not pledge allegiance to the Corb?”

            Oh, I dunno….20! No, 30!

            “Honestly, THIS is your political project, purging Labour of the centre-left,”

            You mean right wing. Neoliberalism is not centre left. It’s right wing economic illiteracy.

            “No urgency guys, sure we’re all middle class puritans”

            Right. Everyone who supports Corbyn is just a silly idealist. Of course.

            “who’d rather a hard-right Tory government than a centre-left Labour.”

            You mean who’d rather an actual left wing alternative as opposed to Tory lite.

          6. ahjayzis


            Just carry on Moyest, I’ve had to many of these arguments. It’s like talking to a red-painted wall.

            You are a puritan, of the Joe Higgins school. All who oppose Corbyn must basically be Dick Cheney in drag.

            It doesn’t matter that he’s incompetent and ineffective, to agree with his principles but oppose his leadership makes one a neoliberal, gotcha. You’ve bound his ideology into his person, one cannot exist without the other. THat’s really unhealthy. I said before he had a way out of this – to anoint a successor that shared his views and could lead the PLP. He’s choosing to preserve his own position, at the cost of his ideas.

            Power is important – power to bring in PR. Because guess what, Nuneaton and other Tory/Labour marginals decide who wins, and they’re not looking for a left wing alternative, Labour needs 100 seats minimum, and Scotland’s out of bounds – that means we need to convince TORY voters, more than Green and LibDem.

            Constituencies that are looking for your alternative, already deliver Labour majorities. That’s just the basic facts, you can only win from what’s perceived as the centre. it ain’t democratic, it’s bent as fupp, it needs to change – but you by all means go on pretending the system is something different to what it is. I’m just a poor-hating, evil-doing, warmongering traitor for even question the wisdom of The Leader.

          7. MoyestWithExcitement

            “It’s like talking to a red-painted wall.”

            Ok. I support Corbyn so I’m a commie. Ok.

            “You are a puritan, of the Joe Higgins school.”

            And again.

            “All who oppose Corbyn must basically be Dick Cheney in drag.”

            So twice in quick succession you mischaracterise me for my political opinion and then immediately accuse me of doing it to you even though I didn’t. This just cements the notion in my mind that his detractors tend to be emotionally driven. It’s all about narrative with you. Nothing in the way of facts.

            “It doesn’t matter that he’s incompetent and ineffective to agree with his principles but oppose his leadership makes one a neoliberal, gotcha.”

            Obviously I don’t think he’s either of those things so that argument is completely stupid. I also didn’t say YOU were a neoliberal ffs. Calm down.

            “You’ve bound his ideology into his person, one cannot exist without the other.”

            What the hell are you talking about? Are you arguing with *me* or the “Trot” in your head?

            “He’s choosing to preserve his own position,”

            Or he’s fighting for the overwhelming mandate he received from actual members of the Labour Party, common people, who he regards as more important than right wing career politicians.

            “Power is important – power to bring in PR.”

            Or power to bring in “business friendly” policy like the last Labour goverment did which culminated with the worst recession since the 20s and the consolidation of the ever increasing wealth gap.

            “I’m just a poor-hating, evil-doing, warmongering traitor for even question the wisdom of The Leader.”

            No, just misguided. You’ve the persecution complex of a right winger though, pretending you’re a victim because someone had the nerve to question your position.

      2. Sido

        @ Moyest – You can still be a leftie and apply an objective interpretation of the facts, you know.

      3. They Tried To Make Me Go To Rehab

        pair of typical leftie morons – first thing on the agenda is the split. Carry on

  9. nellyb

    Labor does not fit current realities. Anti-Corbyn MPs have a whiff of LibDems, while Corbyn is more of an old school socialist.
    I think Owen Smith would run the party Pfizer style. His language is that of corporate middle manager – strung along equivocations. It will not wash with traditional Labor grassroots. A new splinter party is likely to materialize. I do not see Smith having support of unions, but i see him at home with desk-jobbed lower middle classes.

    1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

      Traditional Labour has gone to UKIP, at least up North. Corbyn isn’t bringing them back.

      1. some old queen

        Without Farage, UKIP are not going to make any major inroads. They are a one trick pony. But I do suspect that their emergence has mobilised quite a lot of left wing people into joining The Labour Party. Will this be transferred into votes? Time will tell but Brexit has divided Britain like no other issue, so anything is possible.

        1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

          Hmm, I’m not so sure. All they have to do is work out their own infighting and come back with a sensible leader. Suzanne Evans would do it, she is centre enough to pull in those worried about belonging to a racist party, has ideas other than just being massively racist and would be a broad appeal across the political spectrum. She would be a real problem. Luckily, it’s a total old boys club and they don’t want a woman doing that job thank you very much. That is all it’s going to take and then Labour are dead in the water up there, even more than they are now.

          There’s a journalist or researcher Matthew Goodwin I think? He writes a lot about the rise of the right in the UK, interesting stuff. Predicted UKIP and EU ref a long time ago.

          1. Robert

            I heard the guy that bankrolled UKIP, Aaron Banks is just going to start a new party. Wonder what shape that will take …

          2. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            I don’t hesitate to think we haven’t heard the last of Farage, not sure that will be him though.

            Bit sick of these Richie Riches driving politics at the moment though. I guess at least it is more obvious than usual.

  10. rotide

    Good article again Dan.

    I love the comments here. JC miht be a great guy with great principles. I don’t care enough about UK politics to read every word of his manifesto but noone can argue with the fact that he got his first shadow cabinet wrong (not a great start) and after a reshuffle had most of the new one quit because they didn’t believe in him.

    This isn’t the fault of the ‘right wing tory labour members’. This is a man who cannot lead.

    His oration isn’t great and his PMQ’s are underwhelming. He was completely invisible during brexit and saying ‘he won more votes in brexit…blah blah’ is as moronic as voting against a referendum to punish a govt.

  11. fluffybiscuits

    Corbyn was dead from the get go. The Blairites are engineering a coup (not Turkish style) to remove him and install a neoliberal leader in his place. Too many of the Blairites have corporate interests at heart, as what happened to Sanders will happen to Corbyn…

  12. J

    Just a reminder to all … *deep breath* …The Holy One is on Newsnight tonight . Keep the baby wipes handy @ Moyest and Robert

          1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            Kinder politics and no neopotism remember! Look where that has got us…

  13. J

    Ha Mr. Decent is now threatening deselection.It’s a pity he wasn’t deselected in all the years he rallied against the party, while at the same time pocketing the salary of an MP.

    1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

      Yeah yeah but one yeah he gave half away so that makes the difference.

      This is what people seriously think and yet they still can’t see why people call it a cult.

  14. Nigel

    I guess this is a salutary lesson on why there are so few major principled politicians. Nobody wants ’em, and if they stick to their principles in the face of not being wanted it’s seen as selfish and divisive and poor politics. Remember this next time you give out about Mattie McGrath.

    1. The Real Jane

      This now is the fella who we were watching interviewed on Channel 4 news last night who was told of several instances of people leaving meetings in tears and reporting intimidation and he just looks impassive, gives a dismissive shrug and basically goes, yeah, I didn’t see it so it didn’t happen.

      Like, he’s not principled enough to phone people he’s sacked, he’s threatening to call someone’s da to get them in line, if there’s misogyny or anti antisemitism in the party he knows nothing about it and therefore it’s not happening. He may have principles but they’re pretty specific.

      1. Nigel

        Most principles are. The ones that matter anyway. But hey, we get all these big generalised principles everyone can agree on but translate to feck-all in political terms. Having principles isn’t synonymous with being a saint, or perfect, or not having gaping blind spots, which is why Wallace gets attacked for his tax record every time he does God’s own work in the Dail. That’s why principled politicians stick out like sore thumbs and their flaws get magnified and are used to tear them down.

        1. The Real Jane

          OK, what I mean is that he has fine principles but he clearly doesn’t apply them when he sees some threat to himself. So he wants a kinder, gentler politics, but is fine with a politics that sees people leaving meetings in tears and saying that they were intimidated, You can’t deny that it’s very easy to have principles that stop at the point where you might have to do something that may be difficult or disadvantageous for you.

          Yeah, we’re all a bit like that. Personally, it’s what stops me from describing myself as principled.

          1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            This. And then to say he doesn’t condone bullying. Scant evidence of him calling it out when as leader, that’s kinda your job.

  15. rory

    I’ll be pleasantly surprised if Corbyn becomes Prime Minister. I don’t think Murdoch will let him.

  16. rory

    The thing with Corbyn is the UK media is totally knives out for him; to the point where you can’t really trust any criticism you read or watch about him from yer usual media orgs. Even the Guardian.

    Then on the other side, left wing labour and others who support Corbyn are, understandably, trying to fight against this spiel, pointing out the bull-sugar as much as they can. Positive attributes are focused on.

    Unfortunately, this situation results in me not being able to find/trust an even handed criticism of the man.
    (Sorry Dan. I don’t know where you get your information from.)

      1. Dan Boyle

        I acknowledged the unfair reporting but the debate is about the sense of confidence he himself exudes.

        1. rory

          You acknowledge it with a but; where did you get your impression about ‘the sense of confidence he himself exudes’ ?

          1. Dan Boyle

            It’s my opinion. Shared by others. Those who support him see him as a representative symbol of what collectively they are against. There is little sign of a positive vision.

          2. rory

            “There is little sign of a positive vision.”
            Dan I officially don’t trust your opinion on this subject. Sorry.

          3. Dan Boyle

            It’s an opinion. You’re not required to trust or to be officious about it. Agree or disagree. You see an inspiring vision from Mr. Corbyn. Many don’t.

          4. Dan Boyle

            You shouldn’t be bringing my mother into this. She remains unsold although I would get a good price for her. Your attempt at argument through abuse doesn’t add to the debate. Mr. Corbyn isn’t beyond criticism. Unlike you I’m able to do without resorting to abuse.

          5. italia'90

            Jaysus Dan, that is hardly abuse compared to what you and your party has inflicted on the citizens of Ireland, especially the marginalised.
            You are quite clearly taking a position on JC which also happens to be that espoused by the hawks in the media and the many toadies who sucker at the teat of the establishment.
            His leadership has been very successful so far in local elections and the recent sparsely reported by-election in Hackney.
            He has inherited a PLP that will look nothing like it does today after the next election. Soon hopefully.

          6. italia'90

            In moderation ffs!
            Has Erdogan surrounded Broadsheet Towers too?
            Next thing you’ll label me a “bully” no doubt.
            It’s like the Angela Eagle response to try hide her traitorous and duplicitous behaviour.
            Good luck with that BS/John/Bodger.

          7. rory

            @Dan Boyle
            You acknowledge unfair reporting of Corbyn by the media. You also say that many don’t see him as an inspiring figure.*
            Do you not think these two claims could be connected?

            *I think it should be clarified to anyone else reading this, a significant majority of the labour membership support Corbyn, in case you weren’t aware. (Just in case the opposite was accidentally/unintentionally construed from the above statement.)

          8. Dan Boyle

            Corbyn needs to appeal beyond his base. There is no sign that he can or will do that. Having an unfair media and being a poor leader are not exclusive although it obviously doesn’t help.

          9. rory

            Could you do me a favour and specifically answer the question I directed at you in the previous comment please? You do kinda acknowledge the question, but I was hoping you could give it a direct answer.

            You acknowledge unfair reporting of Corbyn by the media. You also say that many don’t see him as an inspiring figure.
            Do you not think these two claims, if true, could be connected?

          10. Dan Boyle

            Ah Italia. Repeating slogans isn’t argument either. I don’t accept your views of me, and whatever your views of me are they have absolutely nothing to do with what’s being discussed here.

          11. italia'90

            But it is all relative Dan.
            You supported disastrous austerity policies that have decimated some of the social fibre of our nation. Never mind the economic melt down in almost every community.
            Repeating a historical fiscal fact is not using a slogan.
            My views of you are obviously irrelevant to you Dan. I never doubted it.
            But maybe you should consider the perception that your actions, words and deeds have built up in the public’s mind? Self awareness seems to be not one of your strong points, but condescension and arrogance are in abundance.
            You are fantastic Dan. We know. You get to tell us on here regularly. You have consulted “others” and they agree. The Donald hasn’t a pick on you. Just like him, you know everything and you are convinced of your own importance.
            It’s very entertaining reading your stylish opinion, but alas, it appears to have no substance.
            Also, I regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply abuse or anything negative about your party’s performance in government.
            I sincerely hope the interviews with The Mail and The Telegraph are going well for you.
            ( You did me a solid there BS, thank you too)

          12. Dan Boyle

            Hey Italia I’m just home after an enjoyable family gathering. Real life is far more interesting. I suggest you find one.

          13. italia'90

            Well I’m glad you are able to enjoy your family gathering Dan, and I mean that sincerely. Family is the primordial unit of every village and every community.
            We don’t have as many family gatherings as we used to. We lost 2 of our family to suicide in recent years and it weighs heavily on us all.
            Thank you for the engagement.

          14. Dan Boyle

            I’m sorry to hear that. I lost a friend to suicide many years before 2008. I can understand how that gives you a particular perspective. My perspective has always been positive. I am none of things you describe me as.

        2. Dan Boyle

          No I don’t think they’re connected. Corbyn’s weakness as a leader precedes and has subsequently followed his bad press. They are not linked. Asking a question that you believe they are does not make it so. My answering your question is based on accepting your premise which I don’t.

          1. rory

            Interesting. Could you give examples of Corbyn being a weak leader (that precedes the current glut of unfair reporting) please? I’d like to check them out.

          2. rory

            And could the examples be ones you knew of before the current glut of unfair reporting please?

          3. rotide

            The fact that most of his cabinet (the second cabinet he has had in a relatively short time) resigned isn’t a good enough example for you no?

          4. rory

            Hi Rotide, thanks for your 2 cents but could you do me a solid and stay out of this particular conversation for the time being. I’d like to hear Dan Boyle respond to my request.

          5. Dan Boyle

            High up in the Green Party? Are you suggesting that common political belief should be imposed from above? We think freely in the Green Party. Political party activists are not representative of the general public, a public that is at best indifferent but more usually hostile to politics. That’s what Corbyn fails to understand.

          6. rory

            ‘We think freely at the Green Party.’
            Dan I’m sorry if my previous comment suggested that. I think people speak freely at the Green Party.
            At the same time, I think there are certain people of any political grouping, bar maybe an anarcho syndicalist commune (although I’m no expert on that subject,) whose outlook bears more influence on the official thrust of the party.
            That’s why I was curious about those who I referred to as high up (sorry if that term offended you,) and if said people in the Greens shared your opinion on Corbyn.

        3. Dan Boyle

          There is that but there is also his record of voting as a backbencher. He has been seen as someone who enjoyed rebelling for rebelling’ sake, making him least well positioned to be a party leader who could achieve unity or maintain internal discipline.

          1. rory

            Could what rotide said not be attributed to the Blairites attempts to wrench control from the left wing of the party and minimise damage from the Chilcot report?

          2. rory

            “He has been seen as someone who enjoyed rebelling for rebelling’ sake.”
            I don’t quite understand what that means. Could you give examples of when Corbyn enjoyed rebelling for rebelling’ sake, Dan?

        4. Dan Boyle

          Not 170 MPs. It is inconceivable that that level of conspiracy existed. That may have been the motivation of some but not all.
          If you can’t see the difficulty of someone who voted against his party more than anyone else (even if some votes could be justified) not being taken seriously by his parliamentary party, then there is nothing I can say to convince you.

          1. rory

            No need for the condescension Dan, I’m asking for basic clarifications of what your saying.

            Is it not fair to say that voting against a Blair version of Labour might be a good thing?
            Or did this voting you refer to take place before Blair?

            Also you link my previous suggestion with ‘Inconcievable’ and conspiracy. Such words illicit a certain kind of image of me, don’t they?

            Personally I would consider 170 MP’s rebelling against a leader who is so popular with the membership to be very striking. I mean, shouldn’t the MP’s be going along with the membership? Is my suggestion really that far fetched when so much has been done to prevent the memberships voice from being heard?

            P.S. Did you hear about the recent wiki leaks release that implicates the DNC and various new orgs in the rigging of the Democratic primary against Bernie Sanders? Would you have considered that inconceivable?

          2. Dan Boyle

            You seem to have a need to parse what I say. I can’t agree with you. Despite popular perceptions elected representatives have a closer sense to what the public is thinking than their party activists do. Activitsts see themselves as more ideologically pure and more impatient to affect change often ahead of public willingness.

          3. rory

            So it’s ok for 170 MP’s to shut out their elected leader and the majority of their membership, because the membership are impatient activists who don’t know what the public are thinking.
            I’m a bit knackered, so I’ll let the grassroots member in this clip respond to that claim. Her dignity communicates more than I ever could.

            BTW, do people high up in the Green Party share your opinions on this subject?

  17. Dan Boyle

    Want to thank those who have engaged with this piece. It’s by far the most commented on piece I’ve had posted on Broadsheet. It’s especially good that debate in the comments has been strident and less personalised. I’m also grateful that there is a near absence about me!

    1. Frilly Keane

      Of course you do

      You now have 3 maybe 4 Sunday columns worth of material to recyle and repurpose for yourself

      “Where he has failed and seems unlikely to succeed, is that he lacks genuine leadership ability”

      Wrong Dan
      What Corbyn lacks is people management skills

      His leadership draw is stunning
      Almost cult like and with no sign of fatigue

      However It’s no surprise you couldn’t tell the difference between management and leadership
      But hey
      You are where you are

  18. Frilly Keane

    And yet
    You fail to identify what that is

    Scoot up the tread there Danny Bhoy
    You might find sum’ting

  19. Dan Boyle

    Have read intently. The obvious questions have been asked – Leading to what? Leading for what? He seems quite happy to be head of an organised conspiracy.

    1. bisted

      …you ( and the greens) have shown remarkable consistency over the years of being on the losing side…no doubt if Mr Corbyn knew, he would take some comfort that you are singing with the blairite/murdoch choristers.

  20. Dan Boyle

    Sigh. Yes I see you read piece very closely, especially the parts about Tony Blair and the unfair press coverage.

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