90430572
90430579
90430582
9043058490430556 90430561   90430565 90430566 90430567 90430578 90430581  90430598 9043057590430585

Saturday.

Scenes from the march calling for a repeal of the Eighth Amendment in Dublin city centre organised by the Abortion Rights Campaign.

Saturday: Eighth Wonder of The World

Sam Boal/Rollingnews

Meanwhile…

of3wjsecdbsqvk pej6qo0 u5mnxqt

Saturday.

Scenes fro the protest outside the Ireland Embassy in Grosvenor Place, London.

Pics: Joshua Clarke

161 thoughts on “Unbowed

      1. Turgenev

        It took 55 minutes from the first to the last to pass Parnell Square; more fell in as the crowd walked along O’Connell Street, down the quays, up Westland Row and into Merrion Square to Government Buildings. It was huge.

    1. Janet, I ate my avatar

      the catholic church hates women, I don’t believe Irish men or the Nation does, time to break those chains

      1. The Real Jane

        I don’t think they necessarily hate women, but they don’t really think about women as fully human people who are able to make responsible decisions and have the final say over everything that happens in their bodies. I don’t think this is because of badness, I think it’s because of the social narrative – one that many women don’t really examine either, by the way – that doesn’t really see women as fully actualised human beings.

        1. Harry Molloy

          Yeah maybe partially but there’s also the issue of the foetus that is being aborted. If you truly believe that it is a life being extinguished, if you truly believe it is murder, then it is perfectly reasonable to be against abortion.

          I am pro choice but I think there is a huge misunderstanding of the other side in the debate. Yes a lot of them are anti abortion for religious reasons, but I don’t think the narrative of being anti abortion out of some desire to control women is accurate, not in the vast majority of cases anyway. I think it’s moreso the simple fact that destroying a foetus doesn’t sit right with them, except in exceptional circumstances.

          1. The Real Jane

            Well that’s how they like to see themselves alright, as primarily concerned about cute likkle babbies, but the next time someone says that to you, ask them a little bit more about their attitudes to women, sexuality and morality and it’ll tell you plenty about their surrounding attitudes.

            The fact that they can glibly ignore the impact on women physiclly, emotionally, financially and socially should tell you something about how they see women and how much value they think women’s lives and health have. No pregnancy is risk free for the woman.

        1. Daisy Chainsaw

          Burned as witches, churched after giving birth, won’t let us be priests, won’t let us use contraception. The catholic church doesn’t exactly like us either. We’re useful for cleaning the altar and making dinner for the priest.

          1. newsjustin

            So we’re agreed. The RCC doesn’t hate women. The only thing in your list that could be construed as such (burning people as witches), while obviously bad, happened at the same time as other “heretics”, mostly male, we’re being killed.

            But if we’re debating burning witches, your understanding of the role and standing of women in the RCC is clearly bang up to date.

          2. Janet, I ate my avatar

            Let’s debate replacing the word hate with terrified of News. Why else would they feel the need to dominate and dictate to ? Granted the C church does that to make members to but with added privileges.

          3. kellma

            Yeah, “hate” might be a bit strong.
            They have no respect for women. They see them as inferior to men.
            Not sure that this makes them any the nicer…. It is still a sh*t little club.

          4. newsjustin

            Did Janet put in a bad word for male genitalia in her comment at 1.48 and someone in Broadsheet HQ changed it to refer to me? Is that what happened?

            I’m probaby wrong. People aren’t that petty, surely?

          5. Janet, I ate my avatar

            nope I said make instead of male and tried to clarify, I may not share your opinion but I’m not here to disrespect men or you, not the way forward

          6. newsjustin

            Sorry Janet. I never thought you were having a go. I saw your follow-up comment and thought you had put a bad word in there (not about me) and that it was edited out.

            I wonder how “News” got in there so?

          7. Janet, I ate my avatar

            ahh my English let’s me down, my point was the church had a different attitude to male members as in people of the community of the opposite sex, this is the only place I speak English these days

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      Eamonn, read a biology book. Sperm and eggs don’t have a sexuality. Lesbians have been getting pregnant since the dawn of time and gay men have been fathering children for that long too.

      We’ve moved beyond “When a mammy loves a daddy and they hug, god gives the mammy a baby in her tummy.”

      1. Starina

        @Daisy I just learned where your name comes from yesterday. rock on, sistah! \m/

        @Eamonn, not sure where you’re getting the impression that it’s been “hijacked” by LGBT? maybe you think these women aren’t attractive/attracted to you so they must be lezzers? Also, lesbian women can be raped, too, you know, and the B in LGBT stands for Bi, eg might have an unwanted pregnancy with non-women too.

    2. AtNigel

      I remember the marriage referendum being hijacked by all those straights who would never marry someone of the same gender. What a disaster.

        1. Lorcan Nagle

          Next year, expect to see competing marches form the Abortion Rights Campaign, the Campaign for Abortion Rights, and the Right to Abort Campaign.

          1. AtNigel

            Repeal the 8th, The 8th Repeal, Peel The hOcht, Och The Noo, Renew The Appeal Mate and What Have The Romans Catholics Ever Done For Us?

    3. Daisy Chainsaw

      The anti movement is run by organisations that believe a woman got pregnant without having heterosexual sex.

  1. Clampers Outside!

    “No Man Can Deny My Rights, My Choice”

    Em… look it up dear, it’s the women folk that are staunchly more anti-choice than men.

    The whole ‘men’ are to blame is bullpoo for this campaign, yes some of them, but more women that men are the hold up! More women are anti-choice than men, and more men are in favour of choice.

    Just thought i’d clear that up.

      1. Clampers Outside!

        The two groups needing most convincing are… >55 Religious types; And Women.

        It’s that simple. Get offended or whatever I don’t care… those two targets are where campaigning should be aimed most at. Simples.

        And Yes, I marched and got wet yesterday… although I stopped once reaching O’Connell bridge, I had other things to be doing with the rest of my day :)

        1. Starina

          if you marched then you would have seen how welcome men were at it. i particularly appreciated the lads in jerseys who took up the chant-leading when the official chanters got hoarse.
          you’re one of those poisonous pseudo-feminists my mother told me about.

          1. Clampers Outside!

            I’m no pseudo-feminist, I’m just not someone who is an all or nothing type which is how the regressive left looks at issues. Sadly. I can support a cause without supporting the larger movement behind it – the cause is the issue.

            Do you support the radical feminists that marched Starina? I guess you must do, how is your campaign to dismantle Capitalism coming, seeing as you support everything the feminists who marched stand for, like you expect me to do… sure let me know how that’s going, and maybe tell me what you will replace Capitalism with, thanks.
            How many of the 10 demands below, in the link do you supprt, all of them I suppose considering you expect me to do so. – http://www.wsm.ie/c/feminist-1916-2016-demands-righting-irelands-wrongs

            As an example, of me not supporting all feminist claims, I’d point out that this is one demand is actually a lie, this feminist group do not actually support this notion because they support the Duluth Model of DV intervention – ” (9) A society that is community–orientated, in which decision making lies with those who lives will be affected, in which all are empowered to question, to think critically and to live co-operatively and in peace. ” – If this were real, then male victims of DV would be counted, and female perpetrators of DV would get help, but neither do, and their voices kept quiet through advocacy research based on the Duluth Model of domestic violence intervention.

            Simples. Hypocrisy, nothing more. So, yeah, I’m no ‘pseudo-feminist’ your Mum can rest.

          2. Starina

            do you volunteer at any DV shelters? i have. if you don’t actively try to support male victims of DV then stop your whatifery and derailing the conversation. feminism helps male victims of DV, too. simples.

          3. The Real Jane

            *feminism helps male victims of DV, too. simples.*

            Actually, I think that even if feminism doesn’t, that’s OK. It is, in my opinion, actually OK to have a movement that focuses on the welfare of women.

          4. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            Well, clearly, if one time you talked to a radical feminist or you agreed with one point they made, it makes you part of the radical feminist hivemind. Although ironically, I know a lot of feminists who have a pretty big problem with the workers parties. Almost like people have their own ideas about things and don’t all follow lists.

          5. The Real Jane

            Also, less hate for the radical feminists, please. I mean, I know we’re all supposed to hate anything that anyone chooses to label “radical”, but these women cause precisely none of the evil in the world. So they say things Clampers doesn’t like (which appears to be the only thread holding his interpretation of what “radical” means in these terms).

            Radical is not a synonym for evil.

          6. Clampers Outside!

            ” feminism helps male victims of DV, too. simples. ”

            Clearly you are brainwashed. When I called a womens organisation, as I couldn’t find one for men, when in need, I was told where to go. And it wasn’t to a feminist run organisation because there are no DV refuges run by feminism for men.

            So, Starina, stick your assumed nonsense up your hoop. You have no idea what you are talking about.

            Additionally, feminism actively campaigns to keep the flawed Duluth Model which is incapable of seeing women as perpetrators, nor men as victims of DV.

            So, please don’t delude yourself into thinking feminism supports male victims of domestic violence when it actually campaigns against them. If yuo didn’t know this, maybe you should look it up ‘problems with the Duluth Model’…. papers out the whazoo on the web about it.

            Only two weeks ago, our Mins for Justice called for “decision making with a ‘feminist lens’ ” around domestic violence – when I hear back from the Minister about her rationale for ignoring male victims and for applying a biased ideology to the law, I’ll let you know.

            You might also wnat to look up the Istanbul Convention on domestic violence and the fact it too is riddled with feminist ideology and the consequences for male victims and female perpetrators….

          7. Starina

            the duluth model is one method of dealing with DV, you are having a kneejerk response because it makes your anger feel righteous. feminism helps male victims of DV because feminism says that men don’t have to be manly men, eg there’s no shame in admitting you have been battered and need help. it was a feminist organisation that campaigned to change FBI definition of rape to include male victims. it is patriarchy that tells men they must be aggressive, stoic and strong and has led to a society sadly lacking in resources for male victims of DVSA.

          8. Clampers Outside!

            @The Real Jane says …. “Actually, I think that even if feminism doesn’t, that’s OK. It is, in my opinion, actually OK to have a movement that focuses on the welfare of women.”

            I agree.

            What I disagree is when that movement acts with only its interest at heart and to the detriment of a minority group of victims.
            Citing UK stats… 1 woman dies every 3 days from DV…. 1 man dies every 10 days…. but a man dies every ten days is acceptable losses in society as far as feminism is concerned. Proof is in feminism’s active campaigns to prevent DV research looking at the whole picture when it campaigns to retain the flawed Duluth Model, even though feminism knows it is flawed….. this model also ignores women, in that it ignores that need for getting help for female abusers.

            Thankfully there are gender neutral bodies gaining support in fighting DV in other countries so Ireland hopefully won’t be too far behind, and we can put an end to feminisms lies around DV, and get help for what feminism ignores… all victims, and get help for female perpetrators.

          9. Clampers Outside!

            No Starina.

            ” the duluth model is one method of dealing with DV ” ….that is applied in Western countries (Ireland, UK, USA, Oz… and most of Europe, in not all), and has informed their legal approach to DV for decades, to the detriment of male victims and female perps. And it is time an all encompassing approach was applied.

            Male victims of DV runs at around 40% of total victims… this is the same in the US, Australia and the UK…. but you would never learn that from feminisms involvement with DV because it is not in their interest to produce those facts.

          10. Starina

            well you’re talking to a feminist now and i support improved care of male victims of DVSA so……….simples.

          11. Clampers Outside!

            Good to hear Starina. I look forward to your efforts in having the Duluth Model replaced… which all feminists would do if they were being honest about caring for male victims, and getting help for female perpetrators.

    1. The Real Jane

      Yes, possibly, although I suspect you’ll struggle to get accurate satistics for that.

      In any event, this is about the 8th amendment and you’ll probably agree that since the government is mainly men and was mainly men when the 8th was introduced, one could argue that the attitude of men is a large part of the legislative problem.

      1. Clampers Outside!

        If you’ve been relying on feminism for this kind of information it’s no surprise you didn’t know this. Feminism doesn’t produce data that it doesn’t want, even when it contradicts their position, such as blaming men…. But it’s easy to get around, just stop reading feminist advocacy ‘research’. It’s that simple.

        By the way… more men in the UK, and USA are also pro-choice. It’s not some anomaly. It’s a fact. Easily googled too

        1. ahjayzis

          Damn Feminism™ Corp, misleading us again.

          I’m writing a stern letter to their CEO.

          After I finish up my complaint letter to the Chairmain of Egalitarianism™ Ltd. and my passive aggressive missive to the Grand Council of Secularism©.

        2. ironcorona

          Is it the 1% difference between men and women who answered “I am opposed in all circumstances” on page 7 of that report what you’re referring to?

          1. Clampers Outside!

            No, if you knew how to read such research, you’d take it as a whole. But yeah, that’s one part of many in that survey. Add them all up, more men… blah, blah… Look, don’t like it you don’t want to. It’s the same elsewhere in western countries like UK, USA and Australia, and even antichoicers know this.

            All I’m saying is nonsense posters like that targeting men are just that… nonsense.

        3. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

          Those differences aren’t even statistically different by gender – except maybe the ones about whether men should have a say and the role of religion. So another case of you making data fit your argument.

      2. Starina

        so going by that report, yes, there is 1% more women than men surveyed who are utterly against it (5% v 4%), but you’re also omitting that there’s 7% more women than men surveyed who want free access to abortion, regardless of circumstances (46% v 39%). There’s also the matter of the size differences here – 5% of women versus 39% of women – you saying that more women are anti-choice than men implies that most women are against it, and that’s simply not true.

        I’d be willing to bet that there’s an age skew for that 5%, towards those who are, shall we say, past childbearing age, judging by the following slides which show the least support in the oldest age bracket.

      3. Clampers Outside!

        Any of you ever looked at research before…. look down through the whole list, men are more favour more often through out that entire survey.

        You can call out the differences being small. The point is, more men are in favour and that sign is a throw back to earlier times when there were none to feckj all women in politics and when the church (incl Nuns btw) had a stronger hold on things here.

        But today, that sign is old hat.

        Yes, there are on some questions, small differences and others bigger ones where men are quite a few percentage points ahead, but overall, and it is clearly the case, there are more men than women in favour. This reflects attitudes in the UK, USA and Australia, and I’m sure in many other western countries. It benefits men too remember.

        Get pedantic all you want, the research is clear whereever it has been done, more men are in favour than women, and the sign is bullpoo.

        #Repealthe8th

          1. ahjayzis

            That those witchy Feminists are out to get men and don’t really care about women’s rights, I’d imagine.

          2. Clampers Outside!

            That the poster targeting ‘men’ as the problem is a nonsense. When campaigning, one goes for the most staunchly anti your position rather than look for a way to shoe in your feminist misandry… but look, so many women are brain washed by feminisms skewed research it’s not surprising some women still believe men are the problem.

            That’s all I’m pointing out…. that the poster is nonsense, men on the whole are less of a stopping block to get the the repeal, than women are. Simples. One need only look also at the votes in the last referendums… who voted

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            Yes, men are the real victims here. Whatever about women getting rights over their own bodies, we should be protecting emotionally unstable men from mean signs .

          4. ahjayzis

            Feminist misandry? For real? We’re the suffering sex now? Should we get out and march?

            Do you think the 8th is misogyny writ large? Does misogyny exist?

            Written and pushed by male clerics, male politicians and male civil society conservatives? It doesn’t matter if the brainwashed masses who voted for it were more women than men, not in a society where women are raised from birth to be subservient fearful catholic baby ovens.

            Men controlled and wrote the book for the society we live in, please excuse the ladies for not being eager to have male voices front and centre of their campaign or giving short shrift to men’s voices opposing them.

          5. Clampers Outside!

            And there’s Moyest… out claiming someone said men are victims when no one did. is it because the stats go against and hurt your ‘feelings’ pet… LOL :)

            You’re such a knob sometimes.

          6. Clampers Outside!

            @ahjaysis…. missing the point completely. That’s OK… nice rant, if not such a pity it’s wide of the mark of my point.
            —————–

            Feminist misandry? For real? Feminism promotes misandry, yes.

            We’re the suffering sex now? No, feminism claimed that position and promotes it through teaching ‘victimhood’ instead of recovery.

            Should we get out and march? If you think it’s help, please do.

            Does misogyny exist? Misogyny exists.

            Do you think the 8th is misogyny writ large? … no, it was religious influence writ large on society. Yes, that had some scholars call to a ‘mysogynist’ element, but that was fueled by religion and it was religion that drove it, not a hatred of women, which would be the case if it were misogyny that drove it. But if you want to call it that, feel free…. labelling all those women mysoginists for religious belief is a bit weird though, in it.

          7. ahjayzis

            Catholicism IS misogyny Clampers.

            An entire belief system set up around the idea that the only good woman is a biddable, virgin woman.

          8. Daisy Chainsaw

            Religion is Misogyny. Show me a mainstream religion where the sky fairy is all for equality, rather than the men in charge telling us to know our place.

          9. Janet, I ate my avatar

            I wasn’t brought up catholic but in Catholic Ireland weather you like it or not agree with it or not. I refuse my Irish female identify to be controled and dictated to by a foreign religion at the base.. or any religion.

          10. Clampers Outside!

            I can accept that point of view. As I said, their decisions were lead by religion.

            But that doesn’t change the facts of who leans what way. Why more men under the same influence are leaning in favour….

            And just for you Starina… simples.

          11. AtNigel

            What ever about ‘more,’ I would say ‘increasing numbers of’ men are thinking this way because of feminism.

        1. LW

          Clampers you seem to be suggesting that you can read such research, and others can’t. Some points to note: In a sample size of 1000 people, there’s a margin of error of 3%. So on almost all of the points, men and female attitudes are within the margin of error. A 1% difference is not significant.

          The points where the divergence is outside the margin of error are:

          4% more men Believe under international human rights law, women have a human right to access abortion in Ireland where the pregnancy is a result of rape or incest, where their health is at risk or where there is a diagnosis of fatal foetal abnormality

          6% more men Believe that the fact that abortion is classified as a crime except when a woman’s life is at risk adds to the distress of women who need an abortion

          6% less men Believe travelling abroad for an abortion IS traumatic for a woman

          10% more men Believe men have a responsibility to be part of the discussion on women’s right to access abortion

          9% less men Believe their religious views should apply to me and not be imposed on other people

          7% less men Believe looking at abortion from a human rights viewpoint is useful, because it balances right to freedom of religion with the rights of women who decide to have abortions

          To be honest, I think even if you weren’t aware of the margin of error, showing a 1% difference as evidence that more women than men are anti-abortion is shaky ground to be on.

          1. LW

            But the thing is, saying it doesn’t make it so. And worse, they actually note the margin of error in the piece, so you have no excuse for being wrong. And even if you were insisting on 1% margins as significant, 2% more women are In favour of allowing all women access to abortion in Ireland as they choose, and 1% more women are in favour when Women’s life is at risk OR fatal foetal abnormality OR result of rape or incest, or where the woman’s health is at risk.

            This research really doesn’t prove your point I’m afraid

          2. LW

            Clampers, mate, there is literally nothing in that poll to support your point. Google margin of error. Go through the individual answers if you don’t trust the ones I highlighted. And don’t go making snide remarks about people’s ability to read research when you can’t even read the caveat at the very beginning of it!

          3. Clampers Outside!

            OK LW… now why not go look at overall trends in the US, UK and Australia… all show men more in favour.
            Of course there are margins of error, but applying them to the research as you did is above laughable – you clearly picked the skew to suit your argument, marking one down, the other up and presto…. anyone can do that.
            That is why, there are answers given, which still shows the ‘trend’ is there. Please note this is a prochoice / Amnesty International funded research piece too. Thanks.

          4. Clampers Outside!

            And here…. if women are ‘more’ oppressed by religion. Wouldn’t it make sense that they are the ones needing more convincing…. so it’d make sense that they are more antichoice, would it not?

            Can we move on now, thanks. It’s been good, if not tedious.

          5. LW

            Haha alright so Clampers, I picked the skew to suit my argument. Just so we’re clear, how did I do that? Cause I thought I went through each point, disregarded the ones with a margin of less than or equal to 3%, and pasted the remainder above. There was no need to mark one down and the other up, most of the results are within 1% of each other. Did you even read the report? You’re refusing to accept what the numbers are telling you.

            I’m not entirely sure what relevance US, UK or Australian polls have to an Irish vote on repealing the 8th, but happily you linked us the Irish one. I’d be interested in any of the other ones you’d care to send on, I’d never heard this argument before, was intrigued by it, read your poll, found you’d drawn inaccurate conclusions. I’ve no side in it.

        2. AtNigel

          Your big mistake in this particular thesis is separating religion and misogyny. You cannot pretend that Irish Catholicism was not extraordinarily misogynistic.

          1. AtNigel

            The idea that eomen can’t bean active part of a misogynistic system is ahistorical. Oppressors have always recruited enforcers from the oppressed. It’s part of how you normalise oppression.

          2. AtNigel

            We’re all shaking it off, but the power structures involved are predominantly male and shaped by men over centuries, and men are feminists too, you know.

  2. The Real Jane

    Very wonderful, cheering and heartening to see so many women prepared to stand up for our rights. I think this is a subject where it’s particularly hard to make your feelings known publicly because it’s quite an inflammatory subject and you can be sure that many of the people you love most will definitely not approve of your activism and will possibly think less of you for it, which can be painful.

    Tremendous to see so many brave and strong women prepared to stand against that. I suspect ten times as many women agree and wish they had the courage to demonstrate too.

  3. 15 cent

    its undeniable that it a referendum were held the 8th would be repealed. but the government will wait until election year to do it, to try gain popularity to get voted back in, in the meantime they will allow the needless suffering of thousands of women. the welfare of our countries people is not of interest to our right wing gov.

    1. Anomanomanom

      I would not be so sure it would pass. A Lot of people are against abortion as a means of contraception. Now we know most women have no intention of using it like that but people will vote no for that reason.

      1. The Real Jane

        * A Lot of people are against abortion as a means of contraception.*

        Indeed. The harlot must be punished by being forced to have an unplanned pregnancy against her will.

        What are the non-contraceptive reasons people would allow women to decide not to continue a pregnancy that people who don’t really think women are qualified to make these choices would allow?

        1. Anomanomanom

          So do you think abortion should be given just because your dumb or just lazy to actually buy contraception or make sure the guy is using some.

          1. Anomanomanom

            This old story again. Of course I know that. But its as likely as winning the lotto,i know its not literally odds wise before some smart arse googles it.

          2. LW

            Haha well it does make me wonder why you’d say it when you know it’s nowhere near the odds of winning the lotto?

    2. Harry Molloy

      we’ll have a ref next year, I’d almost guarantee it.

      that’s exactly what the convention was set up for, so Kenny wouldn’t have to make the decision because there’s probably few politicians who want it as part of their legacy

    3. newsjustin

      I highly doubt the 8th would be repealed in a simple remove/retain vote. The middle ground would not be won over, given that a simple removal would allow legislators to enact any legislation they want on this issue – abortion on demand, as late as you like, sex selective, etc, etc. I’m not saying legislators would do that or that there would be a strong demand for any of those things, but the No argument in a referendum could make the case (and it couldn’t be thrown out) that removing the 8th could lead to anything.

      That’s why I want to retain the 8th. But that’s my opinion. I’m talking here about the vast bulk of people any pro-Repeal campaign would need to win over.

      That’s why, from a pro-Repeal point of view, the Citizens Assembly is needed and why there needs to be a clear “offer” on the table – if we repeal, what next/else? Alternative 40.3.3 wording? New clause? What legislation?

      By the way, on an unrelated matter, I need to be in Dublin on 14th/15th of Oct for a meeting. Does anyone know of a good, central hotel?

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        “the No argument in a referendum could make the case (and it couldn’t be thrown out) that removing the 8th could lead to anything.”

        That didn’t work with your anti gay campaign. It’s unlikely to work on this one.

        “I’m talking here about the vast bulk of people any pro-Repeal campaign would need to win over.”

        There is no need to win people over, there is only a need to motivate the people to vote. Most people are on the pro repeal side. Most people do not rely on your church to be told how to think anymore

        “there needs to be a clear “offer” on the table”

        That’s what YOU need. Thankfully you are a small minority. There are already enough decent people put there to overturn it without your silly demands. They just need to vote.

        1. newsjustin

          My “anti gay campaign”? You just love slinging cap around don’t you Moyest?

          If you think a straightforward repeal/no repeal will deliver the result you want, go for it.

        2. Anomanomanom

          That whole little tantrum you had was ridiculously. I’m all for choice and for safe abortion clinics in Ireland but I’d vote to keep the 8th and its for some of the reasons you threw your toys out of your pram over.

        3. Daisy Chainsaw

          I want it put on the table that nobody gets treatment unless it’s to save their life, as opposed to their health. None of this 90% chance of a full recovery, no treatment until it dips below 49% That will bring men and children in line with the healthcare offered to pregnant women.

      2. ahjayzis

        That’ll be fought tooth and nail and so it should be.

        We live in a parliamentary democracy – a representative democracy. We don’t enact health policy in any other area by having votes every three decades.

        1. Lorcan Nagle

          There shouldn’t be any reference to abortion in the constitution. Repeal the 8th by referendum, then amend or remove the Protection of Life During Pregnancy act by legislation.

      3. Frunobulax

        Is it the Octocon National Sci-fi convention you’re attending? Or the Furey’s out in Blanch? Either way, I always end up plumping for Wynn’s. When they’re not trying to burn themselves down you’ll meet some great auld wans up from the country at the bar and there’s a Czech barman Dave from Teplice who seems to have served there forever. Jury’s long upped the price and the B&Bs are dank in the centre. But it’s a Friday so be prepared ro shed that €150+ instantly. And as I look Wynn’s is going for €189… Phooo, Jesus, that’s Dublin pricing nowadays? God help you. But best of luck, maybe a BS poster can put you up. Are there any charitable Dubs willing to accommodate Justin?

        As an aside, I agree with your comment on the likelihood of a fudge on the fear of the unknown leading to more of the same as before re; the 8th. Middle Ireland, whatever it is these days and wherever it came from, if it’s an homogeneous grouping, the name just echos entrenchment and conservatism for all the wrong reasons. Gives me the chills.

        1. newsjustin

          Thanks Fruno. Appreciate it.

          I can’t say what my plans are. It’ll be an early start on the 15th, we assemble at 9am and it’ll be a full day doing….well, assembly business.

          1. Frunobulax

            Enjoy the day in Dublin Castle. Wear a blue beanie so I can spot you on the online live broadcast. Carpe Diem Citizen News!

      4. The Real Jane

        *That’s why I want to retain the 8th*

        Because, ultimately, if you allow adults to make choices, they might make a choice you don’t like.

        1. newsjustin

          Yes. If it was just that I didn’t like or agree with them, then that’d be my problem. The unfortunate thing here, and it is unfortunate because it is a clash of competing human rights, is that a choice may involve a human being having their life ended.

          1. The Real Jane

            Or, if you think about it from a science perspective rather than a matter of unscientific faith, not a human.

          2. newsjustin

            Wait, so a (say) 3 month or 5 month (at 20 weeks) human foetus isn’t human? That’s your scientific understanding?

          3. ahjayzis

            A skin cell is human. A hair follicle is human.

            No one is quibbling that what grows within a human isn’t human.

            It’s whether it is a person, and whether that person’s rights now override, and necessarily now curtail, those of the woman carrying it.

          4. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            News, as you’ve said previously you are happy for women to travel to the UK, I can only conclude that your objection is less about a strong moral stance than about making life that little more difficult for someone else.

          5. Don Pidgeoni

            Yup, you did and yes you are. So basically your comments are logically pointless and you are clueless about the agony you put people through.

  4. Eamonn Clancy

    What will be really divisive if/when abortion arrives is the time limit. I think it should be up to a month and a half, 2 months max. Italy and Portugal are 11 weeks.

    1. Cian

      why put a limit on it? Do you seriously think a woman would look for an abortion at, say, 30 weeks without a really, really good reason?

      1. The Real Jane

        Of course he does. Women, eh? They go through 29 weeks of pregnancy and suddenly, overnight, they just think, ah to hell with that, not bothered with it all now. Because that’s what women are like. Silly creatures.

Comments are closed.