It Was A Rigorous Screening Process

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From top: Judy Kelly and Sinéad Kennedy, who created the documentary The Crossing; James Reynolds, of The National Party; and Paddy Monaghan, of Christians Concerned for Ireland;  Actor Liam Cunningham and Irish Independent columnist Ian O’Doherty.

Seeking an adult debate on the refugee crisis?

Look away now.

Last night.

On RTÉ One’s Claire Byrne Live.

The show’s panel – which included Minister of State with Responsibility for Defence Paul Kehoe, actor Liam Cunningham, who has recently visited refugee camps in Jordan and Greece, and Irish Independent columnist Ian O’Doherty – discussed the Irish Defence Forces’ rescue operations in the Mediterranean off the coast of Libya.

The discussion following the broadcast of The Crossing, a documentary by Sinead Kennedy and Judy Kelly in which they boarded the LÉ Samuel Beckett for one month and documented the rescue operations carried out by the Irish Defence Forces.

Readers may wish to note that, according to official figures from the UNHCR, 352, 822 people, seeking protection, have arrived in Europe by sea so far this year – compared to 1,015,078 in total last year.

It’s believed 4,742 have died or gone missing so far this year – however it is impossible to know how many people have died/disappeared without trace.

From last night’s show:

Large tay.

Claire Byrne: “There were two things that struck me – one, that the boats are sometimes sent away with only 50 miles worth of fuel, which is useless, and also that they’re giving, the smugglers are giving the phone numbers of the rescue ships to the people on those boats. So, are the smugglers relying on the likes of the Irish Navy service to pick up the pieces here? And, if so, should we be doing that?”

Sinead Kennedy: “Well, I mean I guess they are to a certain extent. But not every boat or PID, as they call them, a ‘platform in distress’, actually did have a satellite phone which, for me, was the more frightening thing. We were watching these horrendous rescues, harrowing scenes, you know, unfolding before your eyes and that was one thing but to think that the 299, the last rescue that we featured on the documentary tonight, not one of those single PIDs, there was three of them, of those rubber boats out in the sea that day, none of them had a satellite phone and they didn’t have a clue that they were meant to call anyone. And the ship stumbled upon them by complete mistake and you’re just thinking that’s 299 people that would have perished had, you know, the Irish Navy not been there, of the Defence Forces, sorry, and they wouldn’t even have been a statistic because who would have known that they were at the bottom of the Med, you know, a few hours later, the weather turned and they really wouldn’t have made it and they didn’t have enough fuel, as you say, to even turn back so it’s just frightening to think that people are actually doing this and this is happening absolutely we need to be out there. We need to be doing something.”

Byrne: “So you think those rescue missions should continue, regardless of the fact that the service might be being used by the smugglers?”

Sweeney: “Personally, yeah, I do think we need to be out there. I mean, there’s the argument that the Italians last year [sic] stopped everything after hearing a lot of negative commentary about what they are doing and are they just, you know, influencing people to come out and they’re gonna get picked up, etc, so they stopped and about 800 people died in one day, so I mean…”

Judy Kelly: “People will keep coming. The thing is Libya is a really, what really was shocking was to hear the stories of people’s experience in Libya and I think, to some degree, people are actually fleeing Libya as much as they are trying to go to Europe. I mean it really seems a terribly difficult place, so I think that they would be leaving anyway, to be honest, whether there’s ships there to rescue them.”

Later

Byrne: “Ian, should we be doing it?”

Ian O’Doherty: “No.”

Byrne: “Why?”

O’Doherty: “Well, if I could just say one thing. Myself, Liam and Paul might not agree on much tonight but I think the one thing that everyone can agree on is the men and women of the Defence Forces actually humbled us all. They’re doing a great job and I just met a few of them outside and all you can say is ‘thank you’. I mean they really do an incredible job. They shouldn’t be there but they will do a, they will follow orders, they took an oath, they did a great thing. What Paul was saying there, it’s a classic case of the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And we’re playing into the smugglers’ hands, we’re being gamed by smugglers, it’s the equivalent of going into a bunch of slave traders, buying slaves off them and then selling them back again. if we stopped doing that, if we actually set up processing centres along the north African coast; if we actually tried to establish a safe haven, a UN safe haven in a way that wouldn’t have gone horribly wrong like Srebrenica did, if we actually took the hard decisions to solve this issue where it is, rather than just transplanting it in here for all of the myriad of different problems that we are importing into our own culture…”

Byrne: “So not in my back garden? We’ll sort it out in North Africa but don’t come here?”

O’Doherty: “What we’re doing…the UN, the last estimate from the UN is about 650million people are potentially at risk of having to flee where they were born, right? We can not import 650million people into any culture, you can’t do it, right? And also we’re witnessing this incredible brain drain from all of these countries. These are people who should actually be enabled and helped to stay in their own society and work. And like, for example, the last bunch of refugees that we’re bringing in. Two hundred Somalian, Afghan and Eritrean men, estimated at the age between 16 and 18, now we’ve seen from the pictures…”

Byrne: “Is this the announcement today?”

O’Doherty: “It was announced on Friday…”

Byrne: “That they would be brought from the Calais camp to here?”

O’Doherty: “Why are we taking in men of fighting age, whether they’re 16 or whether they’re 18 – the chances are half of them are probably in their mid-twenties anyway. Where are the women and children? I mean we’re talking about the Navy now, surely we should be applying Titanic rules. Where are the women? I have no problem with 200 women and children coming in from Syria. You see there’s this great binary notion now that, you know, that the people want everybody to come in, have a monopoly on compassion, you don’t, I mean anybody can watch that [the documentary] and… but it has to be sensibly done.”

Byrne: “Liam, you’ve been to those camps and actually it was something that struck me from watching The Crossing that the vast bulk of these people are men and there are very few women and children, making the crossing, do you know why?”

Liam Cunningham: “I’ll tell you, it’s not in fact the numbers, of these refugees or economic migrants, or whatever you want to call them, there’s 10,000 of them who’ve gone missing. Now the vast majority of them would have been guys, usually men because they can make that horrific journey, be it through desert, whatever it might be. The point is not what would they possibly be up to, as Ian said, gun-carrying age, I mean that’s incredibly cynical…”

O’Doherty: “It’s just realistic.”

Cunningham: “No, it’s not realistic. It’s theoretical.”

O’Doherty: “You see, again, you’re looking at things like you would like them to be, as opposed to the way they are..”

Cunningham: “No, I’m looking at them, absolutely the way things are. The problem is, is that if we ignore these people, first of all, they’re lacking schooling, if we don’t show them kindness, they turn to the first people that do show them kindness. The first people that will show them kindness are people who want to round them up and hand them an AK. So you’re actually playing straight into the hands of…”

O’Doherty: “I’m glad you said that, no, this is a good argument because…these are people where we assume that if we’re not really kind to them, they’re going to start killing us…”

Cunningham: “No, no, we take away that option, we take away that option..”

O’Doherty: “Why, no, we have this in Europe now, if we’re not sufficiently multi-cultural, then people might go off and join ISIS – as if going off and joining a jihadist, genocidal cult is a reasonable response to feeling that the West isn’t giving you enough.”

Cunningham: “Well, when the West has caused the problem in the first place.”

O’Doherty: “Ah no, no, no, that’s a whole different argument.”

Cunningham: “No, it’s a fact, it’s an absolute fact.”

Applause

O’Doherty: “Islamic extremism, sorry, expansionist Islamic extremism has been around since before the West existed, right? So it’s very easy to blame ourselves, it’s very easy to get involved in a bit of cultural self-loathing and we can all dislocate our shoulders cause we’re patting ourselves on our backs so much. The simple fact of the matter is that we could all, this is the politics of making you feel better. What we should be doing is actually making the politics of logic and the politics of actually having a 50 or 100-year vision for…otherwise we’re going to destroy the Middle East, we’re in the process of destroying the Middle East and North Africa.”

Byrne: “I want to ask Liam a question, if that’s okay. What do you think of Ian’s idea that we should set up processing centres, UN-run processing centres in North Africa, as opposed to allowing the problem to be exported to Europe, a Europe which can’t cope.”

Cunningham: “First of all, the reason these boys are sending these inflatable ribs out is because Libya specifically has been destabilised. I mean that’s a fact, it’s the Italians, the French and the English bombed the place, removed Gaddafi and the place became a failed state – that’s the reason that this is happening. Now that’s neither here nor there, whether it was an earthquake or a tsunami or whatever it may be, this is the problem we have. We’ve seen these people, in this documentary, being pulled out of the water, dead. We have a responsibility. There is, without being over dramatic and actor-y about it, there’s a battle for humanity going on now. We can see what’s happening with the polarisation of politics at the moment and where the right’s saying ‘it’s nothing to do with us’. It is something to do with us because if we don’t do something about it, we diminish ourselves.”

Byrne: “What do we do though? What do we do?”

Cunningham: “We take in as many as we possibly can. I mean there’s various talk about a possible civil war in Turkey, with what’s going on there, they’ve already got 2.5million. We have to take in more and just, take Lebanon for instance which has a similar population to ourselves. They’ve taken in 2 million, unofficially, 2 million. We’ve taken in 500. We need to do more. Europe needs to do more.”

Later

Paul Kehoe: “We have pledged 4,000, which we’re doing now, and plus 200, plus 200 kids from Calais.”

Byrne [to camera]: “On that, we wanted to know how people felt about this so we asked our Claire Byrne Live Amárach Panel can Ireland cope with the planned intake of 4,000 by the end of 2017.”

Results are shown

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Byrne: “The results are  30 per said ‘yes, we can’, but 58 per cent said ‘no, we can’t’ and 12 per cent ‘don’t know’. Liam, what do you think of that, that, 58 per cent?”

Cunningham: “First of all, that’s an opinion, not fact and the numbers that…”

Byrne: “It’s a demographically selected poll of 1,000 people.”

Cunningham: “It’s still an opinion. Can we or can’t we, unless they’re, unless they’re in the job of housing people, they don’t know, it’s speculation.”

O’Doherty: “Are you?”

Cunningham: “No, I’m just dealing with the figures. The minister said it was what, 520 or 530?”

Kehoe: “We have taken 520 from…”

Cunningham: “There’s 395 of them have already been housed..”

Kehoe: “Yeah.”

Cunningham: “So, that particular opinion poll is already out the window.”

Later (from the audience)

James Reynolds (of The National Party): “All I can say about the situation is: I don’t know about people here but I feel very angry and I feel a great sense of moral outrage and I’ll tell you why. Because I feel that people are being exploited here and being exploited cynically by the media and exploited by EU policies. In this situation, one of the Naval officers mentioned here earlier that there was a 15-year-old boy who was on board one of their ships who was beaten to death by a smuggler so what are we doing here? We’re effectively, we are partaking and the minister should be ashamed of himself, on behalf of the Irish people. The Irish Government are sending our Naval ships out to the Mediterranean to help and assist the trafficking of humans, trafficking of humans. And you know what really gets to me: the Irish government and the media were not so self-righteous back at the time President Obama was here and he got a great welcome to Moneygall. It was the policies that Obama’s administration that has caused...”

Byrne: “OK…”

Reynolds: “No, it’s very important.”

Later

Paddy Monaghan (of Christians Concerned for Ireland) : “I’d like to ask the minister two parts of a question. Number one: Through the Freedom of Information in the UK, in August, it emerged that 900 refugees, Syrian refugees, were arrested by the England and Wales police force for crimes of rape, etc. So, my question to you, minister is: what safeguards are being put in place? I am for refugees coming into..and being hospitable, absolutely. But I want to know what safeguards has the Government put in place to ensure that refugees that come in here confirm to our Irish laws.

Byrne: “OK.”

Monaghan: “The second part is there are 20 Christians per day martyred  for their faith around the world and the Archbishop of Canterbury spoke in the House of Lords, saying that there are no Christians now in UN camps in Syria and Lebanon, they’d be afraid to stay there. So, minister, are you reaching out to the Christian refugees who are not in the camps, for instance, in schools and halls. Two questions.”

Byrne: “OK, what screening is being put in place?”

Kehoe: “Well, there is security screening before they actually come over and also when they arrive in Ireland, they go through a process aswell. And there is Department of Justice officials that have travelled to Lebanon and that is all part of the screening process before the migrants come over.”

O’Doherty: “There is no screening process..”

Kehoe: “There is..”

O’Doherty: “There’s not, the UN admits there is no screening process that works, they admit that it doesn’t work.”

Kehoe: “Ian, can I finish my point? Then, when they come over they spend a number of weeks, up to 8-12 weeks, I think it is Claire, in provision and they go through a process and security screening, as part of that, as well as long as education, health, language barriers and everything like that – that’s all part of the process.”

Later

O’Doherty: “I didn’t let the mask slip when I said ‘culture’ rather than ‘country’. I’m talking about Western culture. I’m very specifically referring to Western culture and the simple fact of the matter is that if this was a dark experiment, if we didn’t have any idea, I’d go, ‘okay, let’s see what happens’. Look at Cologne, look at Freiburg, look at Gothenburg, look at Sweden. Ask Maria Ladenburger’s parents, who was recently killed by an Afghanistan man… there is a whole, there is a cultural disconnect. Forget about the terrorism thing, I’m not saying that everyone’s got to do with ISIS or any of these kinds of things. There is a cultural disconnect between young men of these cultures that are coming over to western..I’ve no interest in Ireland, and that little Ireland-er kind of thing. I’m talking about western culture, involving Europe and America. And these people…everywhere…what we’ve seen in the last year: a million refugees, migrants, economic, it’s a distinction without a difference – this has not ended well anywhere it has been tried. Anywhere it has been tried, it has not ended well. Now, if you want to go and repeat the same mistakes again, fair enough, I respect you for saying it, don’t say then you’re surprised when it all has to go horribly wrong.”

Watch in full here

Watch The Crossing here

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82 thoughts on “It Was A Rigorous Screening Process

  1. Fully Keen

    The majority of people that appear on these shows are so cynical and flip floppy it’s just embarrassing. That Iain fella could argue both sides and pretend to care just as much.

    The sad thing is when genuine people are there to try and “debate”.

    No winners.

  2. DubLoony

    The Crossing was a gut wrenching watch last night. Navy deserve every award going.

    The naivete of the migrants was stunning – they has no idea how far away places where, believed smugglers when they told them they’d be at sea for only 3 hours. Their journey at every step of the way was one of exploitation and death. An information campaign showing reality of their journey in feeder countries would be a good idea.

    As for that Ian numpty, he started on about saving western civilization. He and others were straight out of the Trump playbook.

  3. Pablo Pistachio

    When you have headcases in the audience like ‘The National Party’ or the hilariously named ‘Christians Concerned for Ireland’, you’re hardly going to get anything worthwhile from them.
    Sprinkle in a few right wing extremist plants with made up statistics and you’ve got yourself some soundbites and clickbait headlines to get the usual crowd wound up.
    Well played RTÉ.

    1. DubLoony

      The shame is for the sake of “debate” we end up with no dialogue, no effort to try work through complex issues. Needs to be a different format than just hectoring.

  4. Vote Rep #1

    ‘Christians Concerned for Ireland’ don’t seem particularly christian tbf.

    Also Ian O’Doherty is awful, as in really awful. You wouldn’t know what his actual opinion is on things as he just sets himself up to be a contrarian. Whatever the big story of the day is, say the opposite with as many soundbites as possible to cause outrage. Its as if he looked at Jeremy Clarkson and said I’ll be having some of that.

    On an somewhat unrelated note, he looks like the sort of person who would use your toilet and leave skidmarks.

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      Their full title should be White Christians Concerned for Ireland. Given that Jesus was one of them brown faced Palestinian types, it sounds like they’d have rather seen him drowned than given shelter here… Or anywhere for that matter.

  5. Ben Redmond

    In a way, the discussion was set up between members of two fringe groups and the humanitarians, with a contrarian journalist providing some acerbic media comment. A live show with a studio audience requires the stirring of contrary emotions to keep the viewers in their cosy homes engaged. This kind of show is not the only format for interrogating a complex issue like refugees, people smuggling and possible cultural impact on societies that eventually grant asylum to desperate unfortunate people.

  6. Diddy

    Ian o Doherty has been consistent on this. He’s anti immigration from muzzie wuzzie and bongo bongo land.

    I partially agree with him. Liam Cunninghams give us your huddled masses idealogy is naive in the extreme.

    The fact is. We in Europe live somewhere good. They in Africa live somewhere poo. If we start fishing people out of the med and sailing them to Dublin we will create a pull factor. Let’s talk about the Middle East. Whole afghan and Pakistani families scrimp and save to send one son to Europe in the hope he’ll send home a few quid one day.

    Syria aside what we are witnessing is the greatest migration of people in 100 years mainly as economic migrants. As many in the audience said last night ” to build a better life” and that’s true. But Europe cannot accommodate 1bn aspiring human beings. It’s just not feasible.

    1. Junkface

      I agree with some of what you say. There needs to be limits on how many Europe takes in, but more importantly the wars and bombings need to end in those Middle East countries.

      What happened last Christmas in German cities, were girls were sexually attacked by 30 or 50 horny Morrocan,Iraqi, Algerian, Egytian migrant men cannot happen again. It was a warning that this issue is so complex. And we need to figure it out slowly. The attitudes to women dressed for a night out is what worries me. It was desribed like a feeding frenzy by the victims, which is horrific.

  7. Ramone

    I disagree with O’Doherty, but I don’t dislike or intend to bash him just because I disagree with him on an issue (I think the Christians concerned for Ireland guy had valid points). I do mistrust him however because he’s essentially a professional bullshitter. His journalistic qualification is an uninformed opinion column. You can dismiss Cunningham as a bleeding heart liberal actor, but he at least made the effort to visit the camps.

    I liked this as an instance of the kind of journalistic depth & insight O Doherty has: http://www.eoinbutler.com/home/is-this-the-most-homophobic-article-youve-ever-read-or-what

    Interesting that O’Doherty started making a point about how that by rescuing migrants from drowning at sea, we are playing into the hands of smugglers and destroying the Middle East and North Africa. He finishes by claiming that multi-culturism is a failed experiment that will never work and don’t go crying to him when it goes all wrong.

    I’m aware that all that is kind of playing the man and not the ball, but I do think (entirely IMO) that his type of journalism, a la Katie Hopkins, should affect how seriously his opinion should be taken.

    1. phil

      @Raomone , I read that link, holy crap, and it was the first Ive heard of it. I dont know what to say , only that I gave up reading/viewing all Irish newspapers and Media, the mainstream ones anyway including RTE about 5 years ago. I thought that was a good thing , that the rest of the market would surely follow me. Im worried now that in years to come Ill be accused of turing a blind eye to any number of horrible things that happened ‘during my watch’ . I think I understand how the Catholic church got away with it for so long…

  8. ScaryLady

    This is beside the point, but RTE giving fringe loonies like Ireland First and Christians Concerned for Ireland a platform and some credibility is playing a dangerous game.

    At present they have negligible support so why bother with them? So that they’ll say something that will stir the audience and make them watch, that’s why. It’s the fatuous obsession with “balance” that gives a stage to contrarians and nutters and ends up leading to the rise of the likes of Trump.

    They should be given zero oxygen of publicity and left to die a death. Instead they are paraded by our national broadcaster almost as if they had support beyond the keyboard warriors that populate the likes of reddit or 4chan.

    It truly is the age of the loudmouth right now, where any amount of reason is just shouted down by bullies or professional contrarions and there is no room for reason or serious debate. Clare Byrne is better than this and should be ashamed.

      1. ScaryLady

        I’m not Mulherin but I stand by what I said. Would you like to refute some actual points in my argument or is nitpicking your “thing”?

        1. rotide

          OK then,

          for starters 4chan is culturally and politically a universe away from the two groups you mentioned, so that point is moot.

          secondly, after wikipedia, r eddit might be the best place on the internet to absorb balanced information on any given topic. To describe it as merely a place for keyboard warriors is ridiculous.

          1. Robert

            Have you ever actually tried to have a reasonable discussion on reddit? I’ll take the position that it’s not. The best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passionate intensity.

            Wikipedia also is not the place to get information on anything controversial. You’ll just come away with more questions – but that’s what happens when you try to accomodate all viewpoints.

  9. nellyb

    O’Doherty knows Irish business benefited from US / NATO wars. And the naked hypocrisy of Shannon troops transit hub. We’re not innocent pious children of north atlantic. tinyurl.com/jt5hbj3
    “The database lists 28 Irish- based companies which received $7,037,741 for goods and services provided between April 2005 and March 2014.”
    “The Ratoath company DG Total Engineering Solutions supplied goods worth almost $530,000 to the US army in 2008. According to the contract description, it provided laboratory and “forensic equipment” including cameras, lenses, microscopes and X-ray scanners delivered to Abu Ghraib warehouse near Baghdad in Iraq.”

    1. nellyb

      If ODonerty was worth his journo salt, he would have refrained from using ‘western culture’ as an argument. ‘Western Culture’ often = ‘drones’. Outside of western world ‘attack on Western Culture’ might mean ‘attack on drones’ – I’d suspect many folks will be up for attacking drones and these who sends them.
      But it kinda doesn’t fit his world view. He wants globalisation and eat it.

    2. Cian

      $7,037,741 for 28 companies over 10 years. Which averages out as €25,135 per company per year. The irish are such WAR MONGERS!

      The NATO spend in the same timeframe $8,437,000,000,000.03

      1. nellyb

        ODoherty appears to (unilaterally) take a proxy role for all of us and implies we did nothing to deserve the strain of refugee resettlement. As a self-appointed proxy he must be reminded to do the inventory before he speaks for many. He may be inculpable, but some drew income from war logistics and supplies.
        On your NATO comparison: you take private irish business income and compare it to NATO membership contributions that are made on state levels. Not quite like for like.
        But all this is tangential. We should take refugees because we want to, not because we are made to. And I happen to agree with ODOherty on reconstruction and opportunities in refugees’ home countries. Absolutely. But will ODoherty agree to fork out money for it? And who will supervise it? We, ‘the western world’, who are wallowing in misery of kleptocracy, we can’t even reconstruct our own *****.

          1. classter

            ‘unlike the lefties around here’

            I expect better from you than that Clampers.

            Apart from anything else, supporting us taking a small amount of refugees from a country undergoing a horrific war should really not be the preserve of ‘lefties’. We are all in really big trouble, if so.

  10. Owen C

    “Byrne: “The results are 30 per said ‘yes, we can’, but 58 per cent said ‘no, we can’t’ and 12 per cent ‘don’t know’. Liam, what do you think of that, that, 58 per cent?”

    Cunningham: “First of all, that’s an opinion, not fact and the numbers that…”

    Byrne: “It’s a demographically selected poll of 1,000 people.”

    Cunningham: “It’s still an opinion. Can we or can’t we, unless they’re, unless they’re in the job of housing people, they don’t know, it’s speculation.””

    So, because the people have an opinion on a future event, and it is therefore speculation (which all opinions on future events inherent are), Liam Cunningham decides that that opinion is “out the window”, and we should accept his own opinion instead. Good grief, this the argument in favour of doing something which clearly a lot of people are concerned about? Beyond stupid. Almost all policy choice involve some level of speculation as to whether they’ll work, and we usually base entire election campaigns on this. If Liam cunningham doesn’t want to listen to people’s opinions, i suggest he stays out of public policy discussions.

    1. TheQ47

      What he was saying was that 58% of people asked were of the opinion that we can’t handle that number of refugees for housing, etc, but Claire was presenting it as a fact, i.e., if 58% of people think this, then it must be the fact that we can’t handle them. Liam Cunningham was saying we don’t know if we can or can’t so that 58% is just a purely speculative group of people who think we probably can’t deal with them.

      1. Owen C

        Ok, this is, word for word what Claire Byrne said:

        “Byrne: “The results are 30 per said ‘yes, we can’, but 58 per cent said ‘no, we can’t’ and 12 per cent ‘don’t know’. Liam, what do you think of that, that, 58 per cent?”

        How could anyone think she was portraying that as anything other than a opinion poll? The more rational approach would have been “well i understand why people may be concerned, but the government has a strategy in place blah blah blah”. Instead its, “no, thats just an opinion, its based on speculation, its out the window already…”. Public policy choices always involve speculation beforehand, to suggest that we should just dismiss opinions on that basis is something i’d expect to hear from a 12 year old.

      2. Clampers Outside!

        What irked me about that, is Liam says that the people “unless they’re in the job of housing people, they don’t know, it’s speculation.”

        We’re in a housing crisis Liam. We have more homeless families than EVER. And the govt tells us they can’t fix it for years.

        I think it is safe to say, the people do know Liam, they know very well.

    2. Anne

      I think Cunningham means it’s a subjective opinion. Similar to asking ‘would you welcome refugees in your area’.

      Of course they’d never ask such a blatant question, but that’s what it amounts to.

      If the same people were asked could the homeless be housed, as in, is it possible? Would they say no? I doubt it. Of course it’s possible, and it’d be possible to take in and house more refugees. Where there’s a will there’s a way as they say.

  11. Clampers Outside!

    Liam is incredibly naive.

    Ian has some points, but he’s an idiot.

    All 200 men, that have the go-ahead to enter the country, should be made go through intensive de-indoctrination courses. And not let them complete the course until they show a believable agreement with western cultural values. Women should be demanding this….
    But then it’s difficult when the regressive left liberals would accuse one of being racist for demanding such… but they’ll send your sons to ‘consent classes’ at uni where they’re told they’re ‘potential rapists’ without a bother… mental. All because of virtue signalling, and the desire to be seen to do something that may be perceived as correct, regardless of whether it is the correct thing to do or not… yep, that’s the regressives for ye.

    We should take in our promised 4,000+ and take them in and do it right, and with decency and respect. We should not open the gates as Germany, Sweden etc have done so, so stupidly. Even Merkel has admitted it was a massive mistake. So let’s not do that, whatever we do.

    1. Anne

      De-indoctrination from what? Their religion? Should they be indoctrinated to Catholicism instead?

      You’ve no idea what or who you’re talking about.

      1. ahjayzis

        He really doesn’t. Best to ignore.

        He’s inhaled the entirety of the alt-right media, he even talks in their nonsensical buzzwords and American terms now. And full on double-thinking double-talk like how when he says something it’s a truly held belief that we mustn’t shout down, but if someone he disagrees with does, they’re just virtue signalling – showing off. It’s an ideology that defends itself by delegitimising any opposing view.

        He’s fully indoctrinated. Don’t waste your time on a mind owned by someone else.

        1. Anne

          I think the last bike that got robbed is what done it… :) Sorry Clampers. Just messing..maybe you were always like this.

      2. Clampers Outside!

        I do Anne, thanks.

        De-indoctrination from cultural differences that view women as lower than second class citizens, and in some circumstances, seen as not even human. Look it up, many young middle eastern men see western women as below human, or by nature of wearing a short skirt, they are automatically assumed and viewed as prostitutes… and if you don’t know how prostitutes are viewed in the middle east, then you have a lot of reading to do.

        You keep on defending your stance, and when the next Cologne type group attack occurs in Europe, I’m sure I’ll be able to think to myself… sure Anne said they’re just like us Western lads, so, it’s OK according to Anne for these whackos to think this barbaric cultural behaviour is cool.

        “Should they be indoctrinated into Catholicism instead” – I know you are not that stupid Anne, put a sock in it, thanks.

        I wasn’t always like this, no. I change with what information is available. It’s not a left nor right thing, just an information thing, and not information from ideological sources either.

        – – – –
        As for Ahjaysiz… his usual spiel of nonsense and accusations. Nothing actually said, nothing sticks because it’s all hot air as usual from you…. still hurting that the war monger lost the election? maybe pissed off the Syrian war is coming to an end. Kiss my left one Ahjaysiz you war monger supporter you… tsk, tsk.

        “Fully indoctrinated” …I did laugh at that in fairness :)

        1. classter

          An awareness / cultural exchange course or something similar for incoming migrants is, of course, a good idea & I hope it is being doen, so long as it is done in a sensitive, respectful way.

          Calling it a ‘de-indoctrination’ course, however, makes it seem far more sinister and makes me wonder about the motivations/understanding underpinning it.

        2. Anne

          “when the next Cologne type group attack occurs in Europe, I’m sure I’ll be able to think to myself… sure Anne said they’re just like us Western lads, so, it’s OK according to Anne ”

          Yeah there are some ‘western lads’ who assault women too.

          You’re quite the feminist when it suits I see.

    2. President von Clownstick

      In my capacity as PEOTUSB, women should also demand that Irish men do the same given that they are the most likely to beat them and rape them and not let them complete the course until they show a believable agreement with not objectifying or abusing women. Only I can do that now.

      1. CousinJack

        That depends on the maths, more attacks are by Irish men cos obvious Irishmen make up the vast majority of males in Ireland, but if you looked at frequecy by ethnicity then you wouldn’t like the answer as it wouldn’t support the snowflake agenda

        1. nellyb

          http://tinyurl.com/qgu4jkz
          “SANDNES, Norway — When he first arrived in Europe, Abdu Osman Kelifa, a Muslim asylum seeker from the Horn of Africa, was shocked to see women in skimpy clothes drinking alcohol and kissing in public. Back home, he said, only prostitutes do that, and in locally made movies couples “only hug but never kiss.”

          Confused, Mr. Kelifa volunteered to take part in a pioneering and, in some quarters, controversial program that seeks to prevent sexual and other violence by helping male immigrants from societies that are largely segregated or in which women show neither flesh nor public affection to adapt to more open European societies.

          Fearful of stigmatizing migrants as potential rapists and playing into the hands of anti-immigrant politicians, most European countries have avoided addressing the question of whether men arriving from more conservative societies might get the wrong idea once they move to places where it can seem as if anything goes.

          But, with more than a million asylum seekers arriving in Europe this year, an increasing number of politicians and also some migrant activists now favor offering coaching in European sexual norms and social codes.”

  12. Drogg

    Since this that documentary was shown yesterday the collective intelligence of this country seems to have taken a nose dive. People are so quick to forget our own history of uneducated masses emigrating to other countries. The comments people have been making about how we should leave them in the med has made me ashamed to be Irish. This is what gives those scumbags in the national party a foothold in this country people being ignorant and scared of people that genuinely need our help. I am so fucking angry and the worst part is i am angry at everyone none of us is innocent in this our world is fucked and we are the fucking problem.

  13. Turgenev

    Wouldn’t it be fun to take that programme as a template, set it in 1847 and re-voice the parts where they’re talking about people from Africa and the Middle East so they’re talking about people fleeing famine in Ireland. Surely there’s some film artist out there who’d do that?

    1. CousinJack

      There was heated debate in the US about stopping Irish Immigration in the 1840’s du eto the gangsterism and violence that the Irish culture of the time was bringing to the shores of America. If they hadn’t needed the people to staff there new factories, fight the indian wars and later the American Civil war then they probably would have shut down Irish immigration

  14. Truth in the News

    We are unable to look after our own people, look at the HSE run hospitals, the clossal Bank Debt foisted on the Irish People, then we send out the Irish Navy to rescuse migrants who are not really rufugees in the strict sense. where are the Navies of Russia and the Great United States in the rescue effort.
    If all those who were rescued were taken here, that are picked up under the Irish Flag, the political elite would soon find out that the vast majority of citizens of this
    country would not tolerate such immigration or resettlement, the cause of the
    problem is the policies of Western Politicans meddling in the affairs of other
    countries that in some cases they know very little about

    1. Nigel

      We should send the Irish navy through the streets of Dublin and Cork to rescue people from crap like this. It’s 2016 and people are arguing that we shouldn’t save people from drowning.

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