79 thoughts on “De Sunday Papers

    1. jonner

      two cheeks of the same bottom.

      Culture change across the board in Dail Eireann is what is required. it is happening but it will take a generation or more and continuous effort from the opposition to get where it needs to be

        1. jonner

          In it’s current guise, none hopefully.

          Labor (and all other parties) need to ditch the the politicians who practice sly, self serving politics.

          Generally, Irish people are more informed than before, but everyone needs to be more aware of what is actially going on, what changes are needed, how these changes can be delivered and who has the power, willingness and ability to deliver. This means not relying on mainstream media alone.

          while wrongs of the previous regimes need to be corrected, it would be great if decision making could be forward looking rather than being based on who was least worst in the past

          no matter what party is elected to lead, there is a civil service that will not change, many aspects of which are nurtured in a toxic environment.

          The rate of change is directly proportional our apetite for the bullshit we are being fed.

          I feel that there are few who have the tenacity to drag us out of the past and drive us in the right direction

        1. mauriac

          good point. I decided long ago, never to walk in anyone’s shadows.If I fail, if I succeed at least I’ll live as I believe.no matter what they take from me they can’t take away my dignity.

          1. Shayna

            Hmm – I can see where you’re coming from, but let’s hope that if, by chance, you find that special place you’ve been dreaming of, in fact leads you to a lonely place, well, my advice is, “Find your strength in love”.

          2. Brother Barnabas

            it’s a wise man who carries an empty bucket to the top of a hill (as they say in longford)

            ^^^ that’s pretty much all you need to know in this life

    1. Twunt

      Not voting is not Anarchy, it means you didn’t vote when asked, nothing more or less.

      Anarchy is a very different and very complex thing.

          1. jusayinlike

            Roadmap to anarchy;

            1) Stop voting en masse, at least 90% required.

            2) Reduce VAT take by adopting peer-to-peer marketing and economics.

            3) Resist all forms of state media, en masse non payment of tv license..

          2. Brother Barnabas

            just as people who vote for FF, FG or Labour get exactly the government they deserve (just don’t get the beating they also deserve)

          3. Rob_G

            You do realise that if I vote for FG, and you don’t vote for the political party that you find most palatable (if not necessarily endorsing all of their policies), you make it more likely that the country will enjoy another five years’ good governance with Captain Kenny’s steady hand on the tiller?

          4. Brother Barnabas

            joder, no

            rob is advocating that you use your vote – it’s not a pro-party comment

            engage your gulping brain now and again

          5. mildred st. meadowlark

            Kenny couldn’t steer himself out of a carpark, never mind effectively run a country, as evidenced by the many, many incidences of grand ineptitude produced by his government, under his watch.

            And his steady hand is nothing but a reluctance to take action, on anything of substance at all. He lacks the backbone and grit needed to be an effective leader, preferring, as we have seen time and again, the ‘kicking the can’ option over any kind of difficult or divisive action.

            Perhaps if he had a measure of political integrity, I would be less inclined to think of him with such contempt.

          6. Yep

            The problem is people don’t get the government they vote for. They vote for solutions to the problems of the time.

            People saying others should be ashamed, or are themselves ashamed, for voting for particular parties is divisive and illogical.

            Nobody votes for an ineffectual health service, a housing crisis or any of entries on the long list of problems we all face.

            If someone bets on green, blue, red, yellow and it doesn’t pay off they are hardly to blame when the house changes the outcome of the win.

          7. Deluded

            Anarchy wouldn’t set us free, the thugs and criminals and gangsters would rampage, we would revert to medievalism with garrison towns and roaming militias.
            Romantic I know but I rather enjoy food and medicine and travelling to a sports game.
            I think that right now is when decent politicians and guards and judges and inspectors and counsellors and those working to protect children need our support and not political garbage.
            (This is an awful read, apologies:

          8. Deluded

            … the “garbage” refers to all this departmental nonsense as everyone plays the crappest game of pass-the-parcel since the last time FF were in power

          9. Rob_G

            @ Mildred – you’re missing the point.

            If jusayinlike dislikes FG so much, he should vote for a political party; any political party, even if he largely dislikes them, so long as as hid dislike for FG is greater. If he doesn’t vote for anyone, he is making it more likely that FG will be in govt again.

            “You have to be in it to win it”.

          10. jusayinlike

            Rob your missing the point, if nobody voted and decided to conduct their business through peer-to-peer marketing your puny little right wing demagogues would be cut at the knees and dethroned

          11. Rob_G

            I’m trying to decide if you are really this thick, or merely being willfully obtuse…

            Even if you were to encourage a proportion of the population to embrace your dumb ‘don’t vote’ idea, you would need to convince close to 100% of the population for it to work.

            And anyone who you didn’t convince (e.g. smart people) would know that, with a larger % of people not voting than usual, their individual vote would be even more powerful than usual. Which I imagine would make them more likely to vote, given as how their vote is more likely to influence the outcome.

            To put it another way: democracy has been tuned in tweaked in various ways over the last couple of thousand years, with many of our finest minds devoting their lives to thinking up ways to make it better. The likelihood of somebody coming up with a better way to run things through the medium of an internet comment is close to zero.

          12. jusayinlike

            Right so my point was if nobody voted and large sections of the population engaged in peer-to-peer marketing the government would fall apart, you seem to take offense to that scenario I’m sorry you feel vulnerable to the point of using snarky insults such as the way you began your ridiculously long comment above, regardless of how you may feel on the subject my point above is correct and attainable, the peer-to-peer marketing sector is currently the biggest threat facing the banking sector moving into the future, bring on the anarchy drain the swamp

          13. Deluded

            I think that Anarchy is more about all of us being able to stand up for ourselves- that we don’t surrender our fate to a bureaucracy.
            Calling people thick gets you Trump, who now has militias and police roaming the land.

          14. Deluded

            I don’t think Anarchy is practical for hundreds of millions of people; we cannot schism into millions of collectives and keep operating.That way lies feudalism and 100-year wars.
            We have tried to develop universal standards that allow us to challenge people with power over us.
            It’s not perfect but we can speak and challenge now where this kind of thing used to be covered up.

          15. Sam

            To put it another way: democracy has been tuned in tweaked in various ways over the last couple of thousand years, with many of our finest minds devoting their lives to thinking up ways to make it better. The likelihood of somebody coming up with a better way to run things through the medium of an internet comment is close to zero.

            That’s a lovely fairy tale. Can you tell me which author penned it?
            Since Monarchs were either replaced, or had their influence diminished, the lobbyists for the powerful have written loopholes to ensure that democracy does not get in the way of business.
            Do you see recall elections is all the major democracies? In the US, you might have it for state level officials, but not senators, congressmen or presidents.
            In Ireland the govt can disregard your rights with a stroke of a pen, and your options to remedy it are often on an impractically long and expensive court case or campaign. – that’s assuming you don’t simply refuse to accept the ruling, and end up dragged before the district court, where constitutional arguments aren’t accepted, no jury sits, and the judge is likely appointed by the same politicians who screwed you over in the first place.
            Political theorists can pen any thesis they like about the ideal system of government, but actually having a government that behaves like an accountable democracy comes down to power.
            A nation that is either too deluded or too fearful to countenance making serious demands for accountability will never have it, regardless of what is written in the laws or constitution.

          16. Rob_G

            @ jusayinlike

            “… using snarky insults such as the way you began your ridiculously long comment above”

            Didn’t you refer to me as a ‘swamp-dweller’?

            Anyway, I will try to cater my comments to your attention span:
            Your ideas are a confusing mish-mash of buzzwords without any substance.

            @ Sam – “Do you see recall elections is all the major democracies?”

            Many parliaments don’t have a recall system as such, but if enough members of parliament turn against the govt, the govt will no longer have a majority, the govt will collapse, and a new set of parties will be asked to form a govt, or new elections will be called. Happens all the time.

          17. Rob_G

            In relation to anarchy generally: the country in the world (I think) that doesn’t have a functioning central government, and as such could be said to be an anarchy, is Somalia. I’ve never been, but I understand it is not a very pleasant place to live, and is probably not the type of thing that we should be trying to emulate.

          18. Sam

            You didn’t address my central point, that we have in fact a thin veneer of democracy lying over a deep layer of retrenched powerful interests who have long experience of subverting the law and democratic rights, regardless of what ‘ideal’ accountable system we have on paper.

            Governments don’t fall here because of democratic principles embedded in the representatives, it comes down to the math of reelection and public outrage.
            If the public aren’t het up enough about something, the govt trundles on, and we moan into our pints about the unfairness of it all, as if the system should somehow work without our vigorous input.

            Taking Somalia as if it is a typical example of anarchy is about as credible as taking the election of Hitler as a typical example of democracy.

          19. Rob_G

            @ Sam

            – you made a vague assertion without providing any evidence or examples; there was nothing concrete to rebut.

            Governments don’t fall here because of democratic principles embedded in the representatives, it comes down to the math of reelection and public outrage.

            – so, they do collapse sometimes. So, there is a way to ‘recall’ the government; the system works.

            Taking Somalia as if it is a typical example of anarchy…

            – if you know of any anarchic states that function well, feel free to provide a counter-example.

          20. No more mr nice guy

            @ Rob

            Jusayinlike is one of the dopiest prize pri€x I’ve ever seen posting on this, one day alone last week he was trolling me with 4 different personalities/ avatars, some of them answering each other’s ones on the same thread so I wouldn’t pay him much mind. At the same time that was a day that the Clamps character was very quiet so yea…

          21. jusayinlike

            No more mr nasty Neil the commenter

            You have been banned so often your starting to like the stank of your own poo

  1. Twunt

    Zappone has been very vocal on how to deal with Donal Trump. When it comes to dealing with very serious issues in her department she heads of to the US to visit relatives.

    1. martco

      banging on about Zappone is a waste of energy

      or coming from another angle it’s just misdirection, smoke and mirrors nothing more….she has practically ZERO accountability for what’s been uncovered here in the scheme of things

      and the whole country knows it

        1. jusayinlike

          Yes perhaps, I’m glad she’s now on the grievance ticket though, the spiralling width of this scandal is becoming mount watering..

  2. Shayna

    It’s so sad that a minor C list British Princess’s wedding plans are in jeopardy over housing conditions at Kensington Palace. (It’s a tad damp)
    “A source told the Sunday Express that the 26-year-old and her family do not want to pay for the repairs by themselves.
    ‘At the moment it’s a stand-off and the whole thing is in limbo,’ the insider told the paper.”
    I would be confident that everyone who are residents of palaces all over the World share the pain and the plight of the minor C list British Princess.

      1. Shayna

        He also is allegedly HIV positive and allegedly had an affair with a male Aussie soap star (from the 80s) turned singing sensation?

        1. jusayinlike

          That would make him ripe for blackmail, worth noting considering he was trade envoy only a few years ago..

    1. sonofstan

      Ah, One of those ‘family on welfare turn down perfectly good house’ stories that the Express so love

  3. No more mr nice guy

    What a great “normal” thread no weirdoes or petty point scoring – thanks all I enjoyed the read

    1. Deluded

      It was awful nonsense and I was pointy.
      We have nothing on who did this to McCabe, just a lot waffle about who didn’t.

      1. No more mr nice guy

        If you’re just looking to be argumentative : see under Clampers Outside or Nigel, wrong respondent here.

        I don’t really care who did what to whom.
        It’s more important that people learn how the system works and how it doesn’t. Occasional system failures like McCabe will hopefully become more occasional.

          1. No more mr nice guy

            I’m sure there is a point there somewhere – at least in your own head.However it might be poorly expressed as I can’t figure out what it is.

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