In the past hour.
At the Buswells Hotel, Westmoreland Street, Dublin 2.
A press conference is held to call for a public inquiry into the Garda investigation into the Jobstown protest.
At the conference, the names of close to 100 TDs, Senators and academics who support this action are listed on a statement.
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Why? They had a case to answer and it just fell short of a prosecution. Move on..
No. The Gardai consciously lied in court. The Gardai are also the ones who pushed to have these demonstrators prosecuted for false imprisonment. This is a highly serious matter. They must be held accountable for their actions.
+1 moyest, well said.
Even the manner in which the investigation took place -the dawn raids etc- warrants a serious look.
Especially in light of the many, many scandals which have emerged about the Gardaí in recent times. It throws their credibility into doubt as a reliable institution.
I agree with the dawn raids, completely needless.
And the Gardai do need the fear of God pushed upon them that agendas have no place in the courtroom. But memories are fallible and are not proof of perjury, and most statements made and evidence given was not contradictory to the video evidence so I think the widespread perjury charge is hard to back up.
I still also maintain that while the charges were strong, there was a case to answer as the simple wording of the relevant legislation had shown, along with the deliberations within the trial.
We don’t need or want a circus like this again in the future, the gardai still have some way to go before being called mature. and I’m quoting to rank and file member friends by saying that.
That explains a whole lot. ‘Happy ‘. However. whilst coming at this from a very different angle, I see no benefit or profit from labouring this victory. The institutions of this state, and our Garda Siochana, have been cruelly exposed. Time to move towards reform. Although there is always a danger that the comfortable troglodyes will again choose to ignore what is staring them in the face.
“But memories are fallible and are not proof of perjury”
A public inquiry can get to the bottom of that.
“most statements made and evidence given was not contradictory to the video evidence”
Most? And telling the truth most of the time excuses the powerful for lying some of the time then?
“there was a case to answer”
There’s that authoritarian mindset that acts as the foundation stone for so many conservatives’ thinking.
“as the simple wording of the relevant legislation had shown…We don’t need or want a circus like this again in the future”
You literally justified the circus in your previous sentence.
I didn’t. But we will never agree.
So I’m glad we can respectfully disagree with each other.
A shambolic farce that has turned a bunch of agressive men into martyrs with a hashtag. They should have been fined for a public order offense , coupled with a quiet word that it is morally and legally unacceptable to intimidate and hurl sexually suggestive insults at a woman. #nowayIwon’tpayforaninquiry
Think you’re right there Ted
edit *aggressive
@hawkeye
I’d agree to a certain extent, but some of the trial goes against part of your conclusion.
In my opinion, it was a political charge because opposition TDs were prosecuted. The lying (rather than memories) comes in when the prosecution is stating that they led the aggression and that they lengthened the “false imprisonment”.
They were the ones charged, not the actual people responsible for the aggression and abuse.
The media has muddied this a bit to portray some of the more genuine cases of a fallible memory (specifics on means of escape, etc can be muddied in the heat of the moment). The possible perjury is actual statements from Gardai over Paul Murphy’s conduct. Statements that he directed people to stay, when there was video evidence in front of the Gardai of him voting to end the protest and asking people to leave. Statements made by a Garda of him seeing Murphy do something, when he actually couldn’t have seen him from where he was positioned on the video.
The statements have a smell of collusion behind them, very reminiscent of statements made in the Hillsborough disaster.
This could have easily been a public order offence. So what was the motivation for an indictable offence and also statements that go beyond fallible memory specifically against opposition politicians rather than those who were directly engaged in the aggression and abuse?
“I didn’t”
You said there was a case to answer. That’s justifying it. Maybe don’t say things if you don’t mean them?
@ Listrade. The facts of the case are indisputable and there clearly was no evidence to warrant a charge of false imprisonment. I agree on all your points. I uphold the right to protest and I believe that it would be inconceivable to hold a protest without the public being somewhat inconvenienced. I don’t equate this with false imprisonment. However, the manner of the protest was intimidating and constituted a public orders offense. Regarding the charge being “politically motivated” , are you of the opinion that Paul Murphy was charged in the hope that he would be convicted and imprisoned for more than six months, thus resulting in his removal from the Dail? If so, who would have benefited politically from this? A by-election would most likely result in Sinn Fein taking his seat. feel free to correct me on that, though !
I honestly can’t say what the motivation was Hawkeye. It’s a baffling and excessive charge against political figures. Maybe they hoped for a plea to a lesser offence? That’s just my speculation.
The problems come from reporting on the statements being only being on certain issues rather than some of the very specific and very easily falsifiable statements that were made against Paul Murphy in particular.
That’s my concern. Whether I like him or not, those statements seem beyond poor recollection and into organised false statements (again the Hillsborough parrallels are there) and specifically against an opposition TD.
That’s more than heat of the moment memory issues, that was specific evidence to say Murphy orchestrated the aggression and the detainment. Guards making statements under oath that Murphy had said X or done X which were obviously contrary to what happened.
You don’t get so many people having the exact same memory lapse and exact same false memories about one individual without some effort.
“If so, who would have benefited politically from this?”
The establishment. The message would have been protest against them can land you in prison so don’t do it.
*public order offence.
Any chance BS could give us an edit button
Moist: “The Gardai are also the ones who pushed to have these demonstrators prosecuted for false imprisonment. ”
I was under the impressions that it was the DPP that decided what to charged to prosecute under. Do the Gardaí have this power in general, or was it just this trial?
I said they “pushed to have” them charged with false imprisonment, as in they lobbied to have those charges brought. You do know that police ajd prosecutors talk to each other quite a lot, right?
I know they talk to each other.
Do you know that in the Jobstown trail, specifically, that the Guards “pushed to have” them charged with false imprisonment? Or is this just an assumption?
It’s something I both read and heard. You can Google it if you’re interested.
that ‘T’ stands for ‘tit’, doesn’t it?
Have a gorgeous fudge brownie, young person. He is, indeed. a twizzle, and thrive tweetle.
*my comment should read “a tootle-too, and thrice a twinky bibble-poo”, not that nonsense.
I enjoyed the nonsense, nonetheless :)
Police perjuring themselves! Are you kidding? Do you want to live in a politically motivated police state?
Because the gardai lied, if they will lie about this what else do they lie about. It’s not the first time, we have the double breathalyzer figures, we have Garda mccabe. Who knows what else!!
Yeah because there is nothing to see here. Oh I wish I could be as naive as you but I unfortunately have to do grown up stuff.
I love when academics or lawyers put their names to petitions. surely the great unwashed opinions matter as much.
We saw what happens when the “great unwashed” have opinions – Dawn raids and garda lies.
100? Wow.
Yeah. 100 TDs, Senators AND academics.
Oh. OK.
…maybe you are thinking of the 100 TDs who were elected in the last election who had expressed anti water charge positions…
No it wasn’t them either. Some TDs/Senators. Mostly academics.
What’s yout issue with educated people?
Anyone else loving the irony of this reply?
Why? Do educated people not make typos? Lol! Poor rotide.
Don’t forget John Hedges – An Phoblacht
who, by looking at that list, is a politician.
…John Hedges is (a real) editor…
indeed. it’s a bit strange to have him in the “Politician” list.
That’s a good
Impressive list
Nice to see little England’s still alive and out in force
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It seems about all the Irish criminal justice system is capable of is turning a bunch of nasty thugs into martyrs.
Man, if anyone wanted to be a dictator in this country, he’f have a shot of success. He already has a baying, slobbering mob ready to kowtow to him in their pathetic need for vicarious authority.
…would they be entitled to an extra garda allowance for that?
I think they should – and perhaps some sort of badge – or even a big, pointed hood with eye slits!
Garda station troll brigade interneting on broadsheet for the greater good.
Dont be salty “Boan”
daddy, we are sorry
Garda evidence V Video evidence
Garda evidence Plus Video evidence
Garda evidence proved wrong
Garda call for a ban on videoing Garda
Now that should be of concern to everyone
https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-want-ban-on-people-photographing-and-recording-them-on-duty-35609002.html Wow, you’re right. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
So waste millions more money just to appease these people.
Them, and anyone who believes in justice and order. Gardai being allowed to lie in court without consequence is not conducive to a civilised society.
The list of academics is like a Who’s Who of the outraged Irish left.
I wonder would they support an enquiry into the continually light / suspended sentences that repeat offenders receive.
This needs to be investigated fully.
The 3 senior Garda involved should be charged with perjury as this would happen to anyone proven to falsify evidence. One young man was convicted on the same charges without a jury, this too much be challenged and overturned. Also, the further show trials for the same protest must be stopped now as the same corrupted and falsified “evidence” is to be used.
Like it or not….this was a conspiracy that goes right to the top.