Dublin Cycling tweetz:

An ill-advised new @AIBIreland advert (aimed at young drivers) includes a scene depicting an angry encounter with a cyclist clad in pink lycra, suggesting that this is a rite of passage for new drivers. Hey @AskAIB, we need to talk…

56 thoughts on “Ah Here

    1. MaryLou's ArmaLite

      Cyclists are never in the wrong, all their training and examination ensures they can never be wrong.

    2. Nigel

      If that’s accurate then drivers who have killed cyclists have, in fact, being getting away with murder.

      (Causing death through dangerous driving may not technically be murder but it’s a damn sight more serious as a legal classification than an accident.)

  1. Donger

    I was in my car for approx 4 minutes this morning. At the red light at the triangle in Ranelagh 4 cyclists past me as if it was their rite of passage. Next red light at Charlemont st bridge and the same story

    1. postmanpat

      I take it you meant to say that you were stuck for 4 minutes waiting at the triangle at Renelagh on your drive to work. Because if you were only in your car for 4 minutes this morning then you have the quickest morning commute in the country. So lets say you were stuck at one junction for 4 minutes. even with this no school easter traffic, it’s plausible because there are far too many unnecessary and badly sequenced traffic lights in Dublin. Why wouldn’t a cyclist slip through? They aren’t harming anyone, except making drivers jealous. I drive and cycle every day. I’ve never run a red light in a car, even though a lot of the time its usually a bunch of cars all stopped at a junction or pedestrian crossing and the drivers are all looking at each other wondering why all the lights are red and no one moving because some genius programmed the light sequence arseways (times 100000 across the country). There’s always a chance someone will run across the road at the last second and if its a red light a motorist skipped and someone gets hurt then its a nightmare for everyone involved. A push bike is a different story , I run stupid red lights all the time on my bike. life’s too short to wait 4 minutes at a junction when you don’t have too.

      1. Owen C

        “Why wouldn’t a cyclist slip through?”

        And therein lies the problem with a lot (note: not all) cyclists. They genuinely think that the laws don’t apply to them and they know better than everyone else as to how they should be able to use the road.

        “There’s always a chance someone will run across the road at the last second and if its a red light a motorist skipped and someone gets hurt then its a nightmare for everyone involved. A push bike is a different story”

        I actually know someone killed by being hit by a cyclist (cyclist riding wrong way down a one way street). But yes, do continue with your “cyclists can’t hurt people” narrative.

        1. Rob_G

          Not saying that I agree with him, but in the scenario postmanpat is describing above, the main risk would be to the cyclist themselves being t-boned by a car going through the junction at a 90° angle. So, not very clever, but they are more a risk to themselves than other road users.

          “I actually know someone killed by being hit by a cyclist (cyclist riding wrong way down a one way street). But yes, do continue with your “cyclists can’t hurt people” narrative.”

          I’m sorry to hear about your friend, but it is true that pedestrians, cyclists, and motorists are much, much more likely to be killed by a motorist than they are by any other road user.

          1. Owen C

            Oh i understand that the car/motorist is the most dangerous user of the roads, but when someone says that “A push bike is a different story” that implies that they are of the opinion that a bike can’t really cause harm and we shouldn’t be concerned about pedestrians’ safety in regard to this. It is a nonsense. If cyclicsts wish to use the road they need to take responsibility for their actions and not seek to downplay the potential problems that might arise from their unwillingness to stick to the laws.

          2. Milk Teeth

            Whilst there are a few lights I will jump on a bike (mostly to do with making right turns) saying the major danger is to the cyclist is total nonsense. It would tare my world apart of I killed a cyclist who jumped a red light – even if they were entirely at fault for the accident.

      2. pity

        People go through red lights for different reasons. Many drivers rush through junctions just after the lights have changed from green to red – very, very dangerous, as someone alert may have started through the other way. People on bikes tend to go through when the road ahead is clear, much like pedestrians. The Idaho Stop – a rule whereby people may legally cycle through stoplights if it’s safe to do so – is being adopted gradually by many countries, as is the legal responsibility of the person in control of the larger vehicle in a collision – a cyclist who collides with a pedestrian is automatically responsible; a car driver who collides with a cyclist or pedestrian is automatically responsible, a truck driver who collides with a car, bicycle or pedestrian is automatically responsible.

        May I add that the standard of driving in Ireland is really awful. People are deeply discourteous in their road use generally. They signal only seconds before turning, if at all – giving no warning. They honk their horns to show that they are irritated – the legal standard is that you only honk to warn of danger. They park with utter self-centred, dangerous stupidity in mandatory cycle lanes, on footpaths and in disabled slots, even when adequate parking is available a few metres away. Their vehicles are inadequately lit, with brake, parking or night lights broken. They fit dangerous items like bull bars to their vehicles (removing them for the NCT, of course). They clog up streets outside schools while they drive their fat little children to the door of the school rather than walk. They hang U-turns without warning on main roads. They reverse out of side roads on to main roads, and out of driveways (where you can’t see a child running along the pavement) across paths onto roads. They drive above the speed limit as standard practice. They have not a bull’s notion of how to use side mirrors. They might as well be driving th’oul ass and cart for all the modernity or expertise they have.

        And they all, almost universally, drive alone in their cars.

        1. Robert

          This bears all the hallmarks of a “bad faith argument”.

          May I add that the standard of driving in Ireland is really awful. may I add that the standard of cycling too, is equally awful.

          They clog up streets outside schools while they drive their fat little children” poor poor show sir.

          Respect everybody’s journey.

        2. rotide

          This post right here is the Cycling lobby in a nutshell. Defending breaking red lights while talking about the legal standard of car horn use. Not a hint of irony either.

      3. Donger

        Wasn’t a commute, I was bringing my cat from Ranelagh to the veterinary clinic on Charlemont st and the journey took approx 4 minutes. Normally I’d walk but the cat in his box is quite heavy.
        There is a problem with cyclists skipping red lights. There was a pedestrian hit by a cyclist at grand parade last week and is currently in critical condition. You might pose no threat to motorists but that’s not the point

        1. Dan

          See cyclists breaking red lights every day. They seem to think the law doesn’t apply to them. They are incredibly sensitive law breakers – the Lycra lobby is very vocal.

        2. postmanpat

          The cyclist in that instance was treated by an ambulance at the scene. The pedestrian may have been at fault , we wouldn’t know. The news articles doesn’t specify the exact location of the collision. Did anyone here see it?

    2. George

      Why did you need a car for such a short journey? If you haven’t a disability then you are driving too much.

      1. Donger

        Actually rarely use my car. As mentioned I was transporting cat to vet on Charlemont st. He’s awkward to carry and terrified of everything so this morning my car was the best option. Thanks for your concern

  2. Teresa

    Yesterday I saw a mother and father suited and booted for a cycle with their two little kids. One kid was on the Dads crossbar safely strapped on and the other in one of those ‘safe’ trolley yokes attached to the mother’s bike. Are they mad? It borders on attempted murder ffs!

    1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

      I’ve been knocked off my bike through no fault of my own: cycling in Dublin is too dangerous to have kids with you. I can’t understand when I see guys bobbing along with those trolley things banging into potholes: they’re not made for our roads.

        1. BobbyJ

          So you believe that drivers of cars create the dangerous environment for people on bikes?

          If so, would your energy not be better spent informing drivers to be courteous and considerate to people on bikes and not victim blaming people who cycle with their kids?

          1. Robert

            This kind of argument is just stupid. The road “is” a dangerous environment. Everybody takes responsibility for their own safety. In a car you wear a seatbelt. If you’re a cyclist you take take appropriate safety precautions, moreso because you’re so vulnerable. You can’t expecte every other road user to carry the can for your risk-taking.

          2. Teresa

            Get real. You’re not going to change the driving habits of the nation and you’re certainly not going to change the lunacy of the Irish cyclist. Common sense would be to avoid murdering the children in the meantime no matter what route one takes(pardon the pun). It’s beyond careless.

          3. Nigel

            ‘You can’t expecte every other road user to carry the can for your risk-taking.’

            And they call cyclists arrogant and entitled.

          4. Robert

            I am a cyclist you dope.

            Why would you consider something as central to all walks of life as the safety of our roads to be an “us and them” argument.

            Oh yeah, cause for you it’s more about the argument than the outcome.

          5. Nigel

            Then you should know you have the right to expect other road users to behave with due care and regard for all road users! Other people’s safety IS your responsibility since careless and dangerous behaviour puts others at risk!

          6. Rob_G

            @ Teresa, I think your privilege is showing here. Perhaps they can’t afford exorbitant rates of car insurance? Or maybe they just want to do their bit so that there is still a planet left for their kids when they grow up?

            ” You’re not going to change the driving habits of the nation…”

            – this is such a Nihilistic statement; “we can’t expect people to modify their driving habits slightly in order to kill fewer cyclists and pedestrians year on year”. People expressed similar sentiments about being expected to go an smoke outside when they introduced the smoking ban, but guess what, they did, and society will be reaping the benefits for generations to come.

          7. Teresa

            Yea, we can’t afford the insurance and we’ll save the planet but we’ll sacrifice the kids.

          8. Robert

            I also appreciate that humans are fallible and accidents happen and I take responsibility for my own safety as such. No point hissing and crying about who was at fault if you’re seriously injured or worse.

            I have seen “your ilk” make comparisons of cycling safety to gender politics and how a cyclist not taking appropriate safety precautions as being somewhat like the poor girl who is “asking for it”. For gods sake.

            Cycling is a serious and dangerous business and all these rhetorical games can only be dangerous if they serve to make some cyclists think that their safety isn’t their own responsibility.

          9. Robert

            Rob G, above using the term “Nihilist” without the slightest bit of irony or self-awareness.

          10. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

            As a complete aside, “dope” is my favourite term of abuse. You can really fling yourself into saying it. I mostly use it when speaking about Simon Coveney. Who is an awful dope altogether. But that’s another argument.

          11. Nigel

            Really? I think the rhetorical game you’re playing helps to place the overall blame for accidents involving cars and cyclists on the cyclists by default rather than the drivers, which is statistically more likely, which is a pretty damn dangerous thing to do considering the overall lethality of cars.

          12. BobbyJ

            @Robert – Why do you think “the road is a dangerous environment”? What is it that makes the road a dangerous environment?

            @Teresa – So, the driving habits of Irish motorists can not be changed and as a result people should not engage in a healthy, sustainable mode of transport that benefits all of society? Wow, you’re quite the catch.

    2. Robert

      Where? Context is important. Perhaps not a greenway, given your level of outrage. But could hardly be the city streets either? Surely not?

  3. Robert

    I’m often that cyclist (albeit without the pink lycra lol).

    Cycling is scary and quite stressful. Everybody is out to get you and you’re by far the most vulnerable road user. Moreso than pedestrians even, because at least on foot you can step to the side.

    This doesn’t excuse my behaviour, or that of other cyclists at times. The problem is, by the time we’ve simmered down we’re further down the road, or its a day or two later. I’ve copped myself on but by then there’s another “incident” where some poor unfortunate road user gets the hair-dryer treatment.

    Somebody above made a remark about “all their training and examination ensures they can never be wrong” but from my perspective this applies to all road users. From your perch on the saddle you see all of the very worst behaviour, lane weaving, poor indicator use, jay walking and a fairly fluid relationship with road markings, traffic lights and road signs.

    The roads in this country are not the craziest by far, but unlike lets say the South of Italy, or Mumbai, there is an expectation of all road users that they should be able to “get there quickly”. All this with poor quality roads, differing or lax interpretations of the rules and non existent policing.

    I think the rage exhibited by many cyclists is shared by many other road users often, but with cyclists it is the most visible. Cycling doesn’t need a lobby group. Road users overall need a lobby group but even then new laws and regulations aren’t even required. Just rigorous application and enforcement of the rules that are there would go a long way. Some kind of public education programme, and even additional certification would go a long way. I really think that a lot of Irish road users have little awareness of the roads and streets as a shared resource and the impact their actions (or failure to act in compliance) can have on other road users. Some of course just don’t care (cyclists included).

    1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

      I find your comment too thoughtful and reasonable and therefore am going to slap you across your imaginary cycling helmet and then kick my own bike to pieces in temper. Just for the hell of it.

    2. Nigel

      It shouldn’t be dangerous and stressful, though, should it? Is it really beyond all wit to design or redesign our roads and streets for the benefit of drivers and cyclists AND pedestrians who often seem like the bottom rung of road users, crammed onto crowded footpaths while roaring fume-spitting vehicles roar by and cyclists weave and dodge.

      1. Robert

        Waaa waaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaa. Wipe your five year old selfs nose on your sleeve and grow up.

        1. Nigel

          Grown-ups stand up for themselves and try to change things for the better. Man-children make silly crying faces and silly crying noises out loud as responses to other people and expect to be taken seriously.

  4. Scundered

    In the context of the entire advert it’s really nothing to find offensive, it doesn’t suggest blame to either party and the overall mood is light hearted.

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