Yes Means Yes


This morning.

Uppoer Mount Street, Dublin 2

The official Together For Yes poster campaign for the upcoming Eighth Amendment abortion referendumreferendum.

The campaign’s Co-Director Grainne Griffin is up the pole is at top of ladder.

Together for Yes

Eamonn Farrell/RollingNews

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119 thoughts on “Yes Means Yes

  1. snowey

    I find the broadsheet is very biased on the subject of abortion.
    This is not a good thing .

      1. snowey

        normally that would be a good thing

        I would expect broadsheet to be held to a higher standard than a coven of pinko liberals who can’t balance the books and pay ryan tubridy a fortune.

          1. Louis Lefronde

            … Surely you mean a clique of former Blackrock College boys who self-promote each other in Montrose at the Taxpayer’s expense….

      2. david

        And we are talking about constitutional law which is different than any law that we the people have a control over. This law is what all laws are based on
        When a constitutional law is removed constitutional protection is removed
        The Jews in Germany under Hitler learnt that lesson
        And boy will they humiliate you for disagreeing with the green jersey on this one.
        They will discredit you.
        Call you a holy Joe .
        An enemy of the people.
        Anything to get abortion on demand and remove a safety barrier that will have implications for ever.

        1. andydufresne2010

          Anyone that thinks you’ll ever get anything ‘on demand’ in this country is deluding themselves.

      1. david

        Do you tax payers money to push one side of the argument
        One side being forced down the throats of the population paid for by our taxes.
        This is a unconstitutional campaign by its nature and should invalidate the principles of a referendum on our constitution

  2. filly buster

    together for yes seem to be the ones to support, as they put the money raised back into the campaign. the repeal jumpers and so on .. i’ve no idea where that money ended up. they sold thousands of them at €40 each along with other merch, gigs and events, and then they say they can’t get a billboard together? defo profiteering from the whole thing. there’s no one in ireland who can resist lining their own pockets once given a chance.

    1. filly buster

      and don’t get me wrong, i am for repealing the 8th amendment. i just don’t like seeing people making money off it for their own personal gain, when it could be used to educate people on the subject, and get billboards done etc. I’ve been to a few talks and its all preaching to the converted. These speakers need to get down to town halls doen the country and take questions from people so as to show them why they should vote to repeal.

      1. b

        i think there is a general issue here (i’m voting Yes btw), surely these posters from both sides should clearly state who has erected and paid for them?

          1. filly buster

            look.. what i wanna know is what did they do with all the money from the thousands of repeal jumpers and merch sold, all the gigs and events etc. Coz all I’ve seen so far where it might have been spent is posters for marches. which dont cost much at all. I don’t think the yes campaign has been good at all. People wearing repeal jumpers to fumbally cafe and the bernard shaw aren’t reaching or turning anyone who is against repealing. then theres the money raised from these sales.. what was that spent on? i cant see anything it could have been spent on. and if the referendum is lost and the 8th is kept then all the yes people who profitted from the merch but didnt use it to rent billboards etc. have done a massive disservice by just keeping the money instead of investing it into the campaign wisely.

          2. Sam

            Filly, you’re at once admitting ignorance of how the money is spent, while also claiming that it is being held on to. You’re basing that on, what exactly?

          3. filly buster

            Sam .. I’m asking.
            and i’ve asked other people who are involved and i just get your kind of dismissive response. So i can only presume its being held on to, unless someone can actually answer. My presumption is easily debunked if someone can answer what should be a simple question

          4. Sam

            So, the production of the jumpers, posters, leaflets, hiring of meeting spaces… that doesn’t register as likely expenditure?
            Until you know that they’ve raised more than they’ve spent, it’s hard to say anything is being held on to. And even if they’re being smart enough to hold on to something for later on in the campaign, is that somehow a bad thing?

          5. filly buster

            see this is what im talkin about .. I simply ask where does the money go, and ya get launched into. no reasonable back n forther.. just condescending responses. an approach i fear, that has been used in talking with people who dont fully understand the whole thing and are voting no. they get this kind of interaction, and it pushes them further away.

          6. Nigel

            It’s almost as of there are better ways to ask for the information you require than a public comment system not affiliated with the campaign you are trying to address.

      2. Grace

        So Filly what are you doing for the campaign? Have you donated? Have you joined a local group to canvass? Have you had a conversation with anyone about the 8th amdt and what it means for women?

        Get involved if you can -no use blaming them up in Dublin, if you want to see a yes win

        1. filly buster

          MEG: “goes to abortion rights campaign” is still vague.
          GRACE: I’m not blaming anyone for anything, I’m simply asking where does the money go, and your response is pretty much the only one i ever get in return. Acting like I’m attacking because I’m asking for accountability. For the record I do plenty, but i don’t feel the need to tell you as your “what are your doing about it” response, is very Trump “dont mind me, look over there” kind of thing.

  3. Louis Lefronde

    A case of being a little too late…. The Yes Campaign is losing the propaganda war, and it appears to me, they do not know how to fight a referendum against the best-funded lobby group of them all. You have to fight fire with fire without alienating the middle ground, and that is no easy thing.

      1. Louis Lefronde

        If the strategy is not working, change it.

        If the referendum is lost, the Repeal campaign can only blame themselves for lacking the competence, and the strategy to persuade voters to vote Yes. The No campaign have had their posters up for nearly two weeks without a response….if you snooze you lose!

        1. filly buster

          where’s the money from the thousands of repeal jumpers and merch? billboards couldve been rented, newspaper ads taken out .. easily. the likes of una mullaly and maser have been capitalising on this whole thing instead of using it properly for the campaign. if the ref is lost it’s because of greed.

        2. Sam

          The Yes side have been out knocking on doors for weeks in much larger numbers from what I can see. Knocking on doors is a much bigger factor than posters in my experience.

        3. Nigel

          A lot of experts on the YES campaign who don’t seem to be actually part of the YES campaign are insisting that it’s already failed, which is a new tack on the ‘both sides are just as bad and militant and over the top’ since the whole fake nurse and the fake fascist signs and the graphic posters made that non-viable.

        4. snowey

          what about those of us who want the repeal to fail?
          we will win and be happy..
          I’ll suggest the children not aborted will be happy too?

          1. Nigel

            Irish women will still get abortions. The amendment doesn’t even do what you want it to do, it only impairs women’s access health care

          2. mildred st. meadowlark

            But it’s grand when the women have to travel for the healthcare they should be entitled to in their home country, where they have likely been paying taxes and contributing to society?

          3. Daisy Chainsaw

            NIMBY hypocrites will allow outsourcing of 4k Irish abortions because they’re too cowardly to Repeal the 13th.

        5. Grace

          The No side had millions of posters up extremely early in the marriage ref and we all know how that ended up. Canvassing is far more important in influencing voters in a referendum, and dozens of repeal groups around Ireland have been knocking on doors for weeks. Lets not admit defeat 6 weeks before the voting date yeh?

          1. mildred st. meadowlark

            No no, Grace.

            Let’s just lie down and die now. There’s no point, no hope, and NO ICE CREAM.

          2. scottser

            now, now mildred there is always ice cream. however, if your offspring are anything like mine, there are NEVER enough napkins to wipe up after.

          3. mildred st. meadowlark

            Sticky little bastards covered in hundreds and thousands.

            Yesterday afternoon, actually.

    1. david

      You said it propaganda, not truth or rational debate
      The yes has used so far
      The Irish holocaust
      Rape trials
      So far to push this agenda for abortion on demand
      Even varadka stated years ago before he became teashock the facts abortion can effect the health and life of the mother
      A doctor stating the fact of medical proceedure

      1. Nigel

        I love the things you have to inflate and the hysterical rhetoric you have to employ to try to make it look as if the YES campaign has done anything remotely comparable to the NO.

    2. ReproBertie (SCU)

      A quick look at the opinion polls shows the main movers are from “Soft No” to “Soft Yes” so how exactly have the Yes campaign lost this already? Particularly when you consider that the polls were taken either said of the No campaign’s big launch and poorly attended march.

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        It’s an antichoice tactic to say the referendum has already been lost without a vote being cast. Shows a huge fear on the no side, if you ask me. The polls show support for Yes and hopefully they’ll continue showing that support into 25 May when we all cast our votes.

  4. newsjustin

    Those posters are impressively vague about what people are voting about. Clever strategy.

        1. Daisy Chainsaw

          If you were to see that poster would you automatically think “Oh this is about marriage equality”? I doubt it. Looks like you’re voting no to surrogacy which had nothing to do with marriage.

          A positive, colourful poster saying Yes is going up. It will catch the eye and start conversations. Job done.

          1. newsjustin

            Fair point Daisy.

            I suppose what matters is it sticks “Yes” in people’s heads. Im not sure it’ll start a conversation though…given that its so vague.

          2. mildred st. meadowlark

            It doesn’t have to start a conversation though, simply encourage the undecided to think about it.

    1. Nigel

      Good God. He pontificates in the most relentlessly cliched way about Dublin media types and country rednecks (his word) and at no point whatsoever does he mention or even allude to what the referendum is actually about and does his own little bit in furthering the mythologising of country people as illiberal fools who’ll act purely out of resentment and ire.

      I love his identification with the old man of the land and his old moral code, because yeah white people (I’m making an assumption the old man of the land was white but I’d put down money on it) and their moral codes have been so awesome in America. I wonder if there’s some section of disenfranchised working class America that might not be so keen on a return to those moral codes?

      Meanwhile I’m in deepest darkest Tipp and the YES campaign are organising meetings and workshops and going from door to door. Assuming the campaign is some Dublin-centred thing is frankly patronising and insulting to the rural people he claims to have regard for.

      The real lesson of Trump and Brexit is that one sure way NO will win is through depressed turnout. Some people are happy to help them out with this sort of gaslighting.

      1. ReproBertie (SCU)

        The Yes campaign has groups all over the country. This is just another attempt to portray it as a Dublin, middle class issue when it clearly isn’t.

        1. Nigel

          I’m not sure how he managed to get so out of touch with his own community he’s judging them by some other communities in America with no reference to what his own community is doing at all. I also like how he uses the wagging the finger metaphor as he wags the finger vigorously at the YES campaign while conflating it with Dublin media.

          1. wellness

            NIgel, there is a huge divide amongst rural/urban TDs over abortion . TDs tend to play to the views of their own constituents . A cliche acknowledged sometimes makes for an unsavoury reality. # repealtheeight but believe the campaign to be ineffective.

          2. Nigel

            Yes, there’s a divide. His characterisation of the divide was the laziest and most shallow version of it. Which is to say I think people will vote yes or no mostly because of their convictions not because they’re being cute hoors to the D4 media.

          3. Nigel

            Personally I hope there’ll be a cynical contrarian backlash against lazy opinionators who spend their time drawing specious analogies and equivalences without ever digging into the substance or merits of the issue, bringing them out to vote in a way that shows they care about stuff rather than from a desire to adopt some scathing ironic posture.

  5. Shayna

    There was an ‘Omagh Bombing’ fund-raising campaign back in the ’90s to help victims’ families – Celtic and Man United, by way of support played at Healy Park, Omagh, a GAA ground, the GAA bent the rules a bit – Rule 42 was still in existence at the time. Millions were raised, but no-one could account for how the money was distributed. Strangely, there was a £40,000 shortfall on the accounts. It seems that most of the money raised paid for admin costs?

  6. Tucker Done

    Well-meaning but in my opinion a terrible slogan/campaign. Vague, uninformative, non-specific and will be easily turned on its head by the other side “Sometimes private matters (unplanned/unwanted pregnancies) need public (church/family/friends/social services) support – not abortion”

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      We don’t have enough posters of headless women with 9 month bumps in the no campaign. There’s a weird one about joining a “rebellion” where the rebels are fighting to keep the status quo, the way all rebels through history have fought and the one about not letting abortion into Ireland, meaning they’re happy to keep sending women to England to do the work instead.

    2. Nigel

      And it will look that clumsy and stupid if they try it. The campaign is simple, positive and a counter to the gore-laden doom-mongering horrorshow of the NO campaign.

        1. ReproBertie (SCU)

          Abortion happens. Whatever the outcome of this referendum, abortion will continue to happen.

          1. Sentient Won

            Abortion is not health care. It destroys human life.

            “As experienced practitioners and researchers in obstetrics and gynaecology, we affirm that direct abortion – the purposeful destruction of the unborn child – is not medically necessary to save the life of a woman.

            We uphold that there is a fundamental difference between abortion, and necessary medical treatments that are carried out to save the life of the mother, even if such treatment results in the loss of life of her unborn child.

            We confirm that the prohibition of abortion does not affect, in any way, the availability of optimal care to pregnant women.”


          2. Nigel

            But that’s a blatant lie. Otherwise women undergoing certain cancer treatments would not have to take pregnancy tests.

        2. Sam

          More like “Vote no to keep forcing women to travel for abortions, so we can pretend we’re being moral about it. ”
          Vote Yes, to allow women to decide for themselves about their own bodies. They’re the ones who have to deal with the pregnancy and decide whether or not they can carry it to term.

  7. A force for justice

    We need repeal campaigners to be more prominent on TV & Radio.
    Honestly I think their campaign so far has been disappointing.
    I can’t help but feel they are preaching to the converted. It doesn’t help that when this is pointed(from others who want repeal) out on sites like this, they deny this is the case. We are pointing it out cos we are worried it won’t pass.
    The others got a head start, it’s time for the repeal side to start bringing a few home truths out. Focus more on how women have been treated by the church & state in our past. I don’t think a happy clappy campaign mirroring the same sex marriage campaign is going to work.

    1. newsjustin

      Don’t worry. I’m sure Leo and the two Simons will sparkle when they line up for head to head tv and radio debates in support of their proposals.

      1. ReproBertie (SCU)

        Let’s hope they go up against the salt circle rosary crew which seems to be a core of the Retain side even though “it’s not about religion”. Sadly we’ll probably get “Human Right’s Lawyer”, Cora Sherlock instead.

          1. ReproBertie (SCU)

            I do apologise to Cora for misrepresenting her. The mistake was entirely mine.

        1. newsjustin

          You don’t have too much faith in Leo et al so Repro? If you’re hoping they’ll get paired against useless novice debaters.

          I don’t blame you. Health Minister Simon fair enough, but Leo and Simon are hardly gonna put up a good showing for something they’re not sure of themselves.

          1. ReproBertie (SCU)

            I don’t think it matters who represents Repeal as outlining the reasons for Repeal surely counts as the easiest job in the world. I just really want to get to the heart of that salt circle thing. Is it special salt? I heard a rumour it was salt blessed for exorcism but far be it for me to believe rumours.

  8. The Ghost of Starina

    I do think they could do with some more personalised posters — like a woman saying “where’s my healthcare?” or “don’t brush me under the carpet” or somesuch

  9. Joe Small

    I’ll be voting Yes but there seems to be a lot of people who supported Gay Marriage who will not be voting to allow abortion, especially outside of Dublin. 12 weeks seems to be touching a nerve. The narrative about not stopping people in love get married was fine for those people but the “we’re legalising killing babies and not just where the woman’s health is in peril” is still in the minds of many in “Middle Ireland”. Let’s wait and see.

    1. Sss-sudio

      12 weeks pregnant is 10 weeks gestation. That’s one missed period.

      12 weeks has been identified as the most compassionate approach for assisting women and girls who have been the victims of rape.

      I would hope soft No voters would recognise that the need to travel places an unnecessary urgency on women in crisis. Some of whom may very well make a different decision had they support at home.

      Statistics show that in countries with legal access to abortion (because let’s be honest, we also have access through travel and pills) that the majority (92%) of pregnancies are terminated before 9 weeks – that’s 7 weeks gestation. That’s an embryo the size of a poppy seed.

      I’d rather share that pertinent information with others who might be undecided on that one point, rather than ‘wait and see’ to be honest, and I do wish other Yes voters would do the same.

      1. ReproBertie (SCU)

        Something I was unaware of is that the Retain side don’t count the initial two weeks so for them 12 weeks is 12 weeks gestation, or what most doctors would consider 14 weeks pregnant.

        1. Daisy Chainsaw

          Given what passes for their medical experts: Nurse Noel, Dr Thornton and Dr Bottone, is it any wonder they’re clueless on female reproduction?

          Also, I don’t get this “outside Dublin” malarkey. We culchies, down the boonies, outside the Pale are as engaged and involved as our M50 cousins.

          1. ReproBertie (SCU)

            It’s also harder for people beyond the Pale to travel to the UK than it is for people in Dublin so obviously it has a bigger impact there.

          2. Joe Small

            I’m from the country but live in Dublin. I can only go on conversations with friends and relatives back home. The prevailing attitude is that this is going too far.
            Also, people were okay chatting about gay marriage at the dinner table. No one wants to talk about abortion over dinner. My wife will probably vote No and I’m not inclined to convince her otherwise as she holds her opinion sincerely and that’s her right.
            The final opinion polls on gay marriage suggested a 70-30 YES vote and it ended up a 62-38 split. This vote is going to be really close.

      2. Sss-sudio

        *Correction an embryo at 7 weeks gestation is equivalent to the size of a blueberry. Neither of which are any consolation to a person who needs an abortion.

      3. newsjustin

        “…..terminated before 9 weeks – that’s 7 weeks gestation. That’s an embryo the size of a poppy seed.

        I’d rather share that pertinent information with others who might be undecided on that one point, rather than ‘wait and see’ to be honest…..”

        Except that pertinent information is wrong. A human embryo at 7 weeks gestation is about the size of a blueberry not the size of a poppy seed.

        So you’re out by a factor of 6 or 7 times.
        If that basic information is so innacurate, why would you be determined to share it with others Sss-sudio?

        1. Sss-sudio

          Maybe take a breath and read the correction posted 20 minutes before your reply?

          Again, neither are any consolation to a person needing an abortion.

          1. newsjustin

            Fair play on the correction. Obviously, I didn’t see the correction before I posted.

            My point still stands. You were factually way off (like by 600%). So I’m not sure you should be advising others on the proposed abortion legislation.

          2. Sss-sudio

            I misspoke because I am having the same conversation elsewhere, I also corrected myself immediately – a rarity in this debate.

            Whether the embryo is the size of a poppy seed or a blueberry, the 12 week point still stands.

            Or should I never speak again do you think? Do please let me know.

          3. newsjustin

            Ah do speak again, for sure!

            I just wouldn’t make any claims about human embryo development, relevant to an abortion debate, without fact checking them first.

      4. Bob

        Emergency contraception is available
        I understand that wont help every rape victim but it makes me think the number of abortions due to rape will only ever be a very small proportion of cases. (Catholic doctrine is against emergency contraception too but it is already legal, and I’m not sure what you could say to anyone voting on religious grounds.)
        Other issues such as cases of fatal feotal abnormality seem much less divisive and more likely to convince the undecided voters.

        Something needs to change and change cannot happen without repeal but I fear some might be put off by the proposed legislation and vote against the referendum even though they know change is needed.

    2. snowey

      what is the link between marriage and abortion? you aren’t the first to comment on both in the same comment.

      I voted for marriage but will vote against repeal..
      I’m not against a change in the law but my belief cannot abide the 12 weeks piece.

      so it’s a kick in the balls or a punch in the face. I’m taking the punch in the face,. thanks.

      1. Cian

        snowey, are you happy with the status quo? That 9 women had to travel to UK each day last year to have an abortion?

        Because that is the reality. Irish women are getting abortions every day. The problem is that they have to travel.

        The referendum isn’t about if Irish women can have abortions or not
        The referendum isn’t about if 12 weeks being a good point or not
        The referendum isn’t about rape and FFA
        The referendum isn’t about Downs Syndrome

        The referendum is about allowing an Irish woman, that has chosen to have abortion, to remain in Ireland for that abortions and not forcing them abroad.

  10. The Ghost of Starina

    Is there anything that can be done about the actual, literal lie on the No poster around town? Is it illegal to peddle falsehoods in the name of a campaign? I’m referring to the one that shows a 20+ week fetus with the “I’m 9 weeks and can yawn and kick” caption.

    1. scottser

      toothpaste with baking soda will remove most permanent inks from corrie board, i’m told.

    2. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

      Isn’t it all irrelevant for someone who believes a foetus is a baby anyway? Someone like my Mum with whom I’ve just had a chat. “Why don’t they just keep the babies and give them up for adoption? There are plenty of nice couples dying to adopt a baby.” “Sure, Mum. But, regardless, people are going to get abortions. Are you happy that they have to go to England rather than getting it done here?”. “Hmmph: people are very selfish these days”.


      1. The Ghost of Starina

        Maybe they wouldn’t think a foetus was a baby if they were better educated on the stages of pregnancy.

        1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

          She doesn’t care about stages of pregnancy. No matter how you explain it, you’re met with “It’s a baby”. That’s what you’re dealing with. To be honest, although I strongly disagree, I respect her belief. I don’t respect her belief trumping someone’s rights to have a abortion but that’s how it works, unfortunately. Including this in our Constitution in the first place was a nonsense.
          I think this referendum is very close indeed. More so than I’d like.
          I’ll have a chat with her again and see what I can do. But I know her, and she just thinks it’s morally wrong.

  11. Iwerzon

    Yes need to get their finger out and get some optics up and advertising. I have family who have changed their mind to No. A simple image of a distressed woman getting on a boat with a shoe-box would send a powerful message. And before the smartarses start, just don’t, I’m not in the mood today.

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