The Pope’s Children

at | 117 Replies

This morning’s Irish Daily Mail

Good times.

Photo of homeless mother and six children sleeping in Dublin garda station prompts national condemnation of housing crisis (The Independent.co.uk)

Yesterday: ‘I’m Assuming They’re One Of The Families That Didn’t Seek Further Assistance From Us’

117 thoughts on “The Pope’s Children

    1. b

      not to mention the under occupied Parish Priest houses where they will be putting up colleagues from all over who are coming up to see the pope

      Reply
    2. Dr.Fart MD

      not that it should come to it, but, what about all the churches? And priests houses are nearly always 4 bed jobs with just 1 priest in ’em. Surely the christian thing to do would be to take in those in need?

      Reply
      1. newsjustin

        What happened to “separating church and state”?

        People regularly talk like they want to drive the catholic church into the sea on BS and specifically critisise the church’s roles in providing social services. But when they want to have a go at the RCC, the question is why is the church not homing the state’s homeless people?

        Lol

        Reply
        1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

          “Separating church and state” aside, simple Christian charity mightn’t go amiss. Jesus’d have done it: offered his gaff. I’m not going to, as I haven’t chosen to be a representative of Christ on earth (and have no space anyway) but priests chose that life.
          I guess they live in houses owned by the Church and it would be frowned upon by the local Bishop? I dunno.

          Reply
        2. scottser

          the real issue is the church’s hypocrisy in not using its assets and influence to address poverty in any real way. in fact, you could say that the church has a vested interest in keeping society unequal.
          LOL

          Reply
          1. newsjustin

            Yeah scottser, the church has really had it’s hands in it’s pockets on poverty and inequality in Ireland.

            Except for the schools it opened. Except for hospitals and hospices. Except for day care centres and hostels for the homeless. Except for their involvement in establishing housing associations. Except for it’s support for charities like St Vincent De Paul and diocesan agencies like CrossCare.
            Except for those kind of things, you’re right.

          2. jonsmoke

            and where did the church get the money to pay for all those things? From all their own hard work? No, from the hard work of others including the slave labour forced on girls in laundries.

          3. newsjustin

            Mostly it was from donations from members of their church. You know, Christians being charitable.

          4. scottser

            newsjustin, your mob have been selling indulgences to the rich and gullible for hundreds of years.

          5. newsjustin

            They haven’t, but, if they had, what does that matter if they use it to provide the social services that you want of them.

            Or do you want separation of church and state? Or can you just not decide?

          6. scottser

            if it was up to me, the church would be divested of its assets in compensation for the years of abuse and harm suffered by its victims

        3. Brother Barnabas

          most people would welcome the church making a genuinely benevolent contribution to healthcare, education etc. the issue is when its contribution comes with conditions or, as is often the case, insistence on retaining outright control

          and should the church provide assistance to the homeless? if it’s genuinely what it professes to be, yes, it should. otherwise it’s just more hypocrisy and lies

          Reply
  1. Ollie Cromwell

    10,000 Irish homeless.
    40,000 in mortgage arrears which the EU is demanding Ireland sort out and repossess the properties.
    20,000 net immigration per year.
    Up to 400,000 illegal immigrants in Blight who could soon be looking for another cushy number elsewhere.
    And many landlords converting their properties into the far less hassle Airbnb.
    Good times indeed.

    Reply
      1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

        You know people can hold more than one idea in their head a…
        Oh, hang on. You probably don’t.
        Carry on, pet.

        Reply
    1. ReproButina

      You always bang on about the net immigration but never mention that 55.5% of the immigrants over 15 are working. Presumably because that wouldn’t help your racist “Fear the Immigrants” project.

      Reply
      1. Ollie Cromwell

        Working or not they all need to live somewhere.
        I’m hoping if I keep explaining this to you day in and day out it will eventually sink in after a week or two.
        We’ll try one more time – pointing out that 20,000 immigrants a year is going to put added strain on an already under pressure housing,health and education sectors is not being racist.
        If it was you wouldn’t be reading this post.

        Reply
        1. Brother Barnabas

          would it be fair to say, charger, that, as you look ahead, you are filled with foreboding? and that, like the roman, you seem to see the river tiber foaming with much blood?

          Reply
          1. Ollie Cromwell

            Not at all matey.
            Feeling very positive about the sunny uplands of Brexit.
            And here at Lords where I’m spending the next couple of days England are 11/2 after only six overs with a fantastic battle between Jimmy Anderson and Virat Kholi in store – once this rain clears.
            Marvellous stuff,what ?

        2. ReproButina

          Except it’s not 20,000 a year. it was 19,800 last year but 6,200 the year before and only 5,900 in 2016. In 2015 the net figure was a reduction of 8,500.

          Don’t let that stop you blasting away on your racist dog whistle though.

          Reply
          1. Andrew

            So it has jumped from 6.200 to 19,800 since the Brexit referendum. I wonder what the figure will be for this year?

          2. Ollie Cromwell

            ‘fraid you got your stats wrong old bean.
            It was 16,200 in year-ending 2016.19,800 in 2017.
            So that’s 36,000 in two years as part of a general population growth of 104,000 over the same period.
            If that is repeated in 2017/18 that’s an extra population of 150,000 people in Ireland within three years or the equivalent of three cities the size of Waterford but without any extra houses,schools and hospitals to cope with their needs.
            If you don’t think that will have an effect you’re a barmpot.

          3. edalicious

            Interesting that you’ve omitted the fact that there was negative net migration for the 6 years preceding that, isn’t it? It almost looks like you’re cherry picking statistics that suit your point of view.

          4. Ollie Cromwell

            Not really.
            I’m simply pointing out one reason why the level of homelessness in Ireland has increased dramatically at the same time that the levels of net migration into Ireland have increased at the same time.
            Immigrants need somewhere to live and that somewhere is social housing and cheap,rented accommodation – so if it’s not being built who are they displacing ?
            As I say,one of the reasons …
            https://www.focusireland.ie/resource-hub/latest-figures-homelessness-ireland

          5. ReproButina

            Yeah, he’s just pointing out the immigrants. He’s just singling out immigrants as a potential strain on resources. He’s just hypothesising about them taking homes from non immigrants. He’s just going on and on about the immigrants every day while ignoring the potential strain from the over 3 times as many births. Sure how could anyone see that as racist?

          6. Nigel

            Homelessness is no more the fault of immigrants than it is of the pope. But fair play for admitting you’re dogwhistling, I guess?

  2. dan

    “Mummy why are we in a Garda Station on 9th Auguist when you were at a hen’s party on 8th Auguist?
    Mummy shoudl you have sepnt €500 on my commmunion dress in MAy?
    Munmmy, why do you feel entitled to a free house?
    Mummy why were you on the p**s on Sunday instead of looking after our housing needs?

    Yet another poor traveller girl married at a very young age and then seperated with a load of kids to look after.

    Reply
          1. scottser

            dan you absolutely benefited from a social housing, that’s the point. you bleating on and denying others the same opportunity your family got is pure hypocrisy.
            besides, in a properly functioning housing market everyone would have access to affordable and appropriate housing but the tactic of ‘divide and conquer’ is working quite well among people who think like you. and for those who think they are being played by this woman and others to get a ‘free house’, well yes you are being taken for a mug, but not by her.

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            Dan, how long after they were given their free house were they given the opportunity to buy it for a couple of grand?

        1. small ads

          If your parents bought their council house, Dan, they didn’t do so at market rates.

          Apart from enjoying your two-minute hate of those less fortunate than you, it might be a good idea to consider the fact that building council houses and apartments and renting them at affordable rates would a) moderate the rents that vulture funds can charge on the thousands of houses and apartments they’ve been encouraged to buy for low prices, and b) open up the rental and purchase markets to many more people.

          Reply
      1. dan

        @ Starina. Yes, lets take a look

        Grew up in North Dublin on a rough Council estate, stayed away from drugs and trouble (of which there was plenty) went to school, did Inter Cert, worked from the age of 13, went back to college, got a degree, bought a house, raised 4 kids.

        Didn’t go on the p**s 48 hours before I knew I would be homeless, didn’t go on the housing list at the age of 17, Didn;t exploit my children for free stuff.
        Look at her FAcebook pics, kids sleepiong on seats without duvets, on the floor with duvets, all set up. Disgusting, hte kids should be placed in care until this “mother” can sort her s**t

        By the way, this woman was buying crystal for her house on Friday last, on the beer on Sunday and at a hens on Wednesday, now that’s odd when you are homeless.

        Now Starina, how about your background? Get much free stuff lately? I didn’t.

        Reply
        1. Murtles

          +1 (more child = 7)
          Per her Facebook page she got offered a house in Tallaght 3 weeks ago. Probably some excuse was made not to take up the offer, not big enough or in the wrong part of town.

          Reply
  3. Anomanomanom

    From what I’ve read that girl is in need of genuine help, but there seems to be a bit of entitlement with her as well. Where do you draw the line with state help, if you have 6 kids but have been finding it hard from the time of your 1st and 2nd should we then blame the state your homeless with 6 kids. Then the flip side is, Regardless of what the parents did or how irresponsible they were, the kids are not blame and need safe dwellings to grow up in.

    Reply
      1. Anomanomanom

        Oh I’ve seen that argument used a lot yesterday, its the most idiotic thing I’ve heard in a long long time

        Reply
        1. postmanpat

          Ah look, people just like having a free dig at the church, and where’s the harm in that? They did actually rape a load of kids and use pregnant girls as slaves for profit in this country and are doing the exact same thing in developing countries as we speak. And the traveling culcie pilgrims are using up hotel rooms that otherwise would have been used for homeless families. Good news for hoteliers though. The Vatican probably has business interests in certain multi national hotel groups which will bump up there stock portfolios plus the state is paying for the visit so its all profit. Then on to the next city. Sorry to burst your bubble but you don’t have the moral high ground defending the church, also there is no afterfile , just a void when you die, because all that Christian stuff is made up by mad men. sweet dreams!

          Reply
      2. Nigel

        There’s a fabulous meeting of minds occurring between church apologists and people who hate the poor and it will bring back the Laundries if it has its way.

        Reply
        1. newsjustin

          On this very thread you have people asking why the church ISN’T running institutions where poor people can live, despite reviling church run institutions. People are getting very confused and conflicted.

          It’s perfectly reasonable to help poor people, and especially homeless people, motivated by Christian charity, while at the same time questioning a culture (however it manifests itself) of entitlement and irresponsibility.

          Reply
          1. Nigel

            Social welfare isn’t charity it is the support you and I and every other citizen is entitled to, and while resentment at some people’s attitudes are understandable I think they’re an improvement on the sorts of attitudes bred in tenements and slums before there was a social safety net.

            I actually don’t know why the Church is being brought up at all, It’s a failure of government that the capital city can’t host an event like this without causing this kind of problem.

          1. Nigel

            If by ‘their place’ you mean ‘a place other than sleeping on the streets’ I suppose that’s a funny way of showing it.

    1. Rob

      So if the parents cant provide the safe dwelling, should the state step in and provide foster homes for the kids?
      What plan does this mother have for her kids? Wait it out and get a house in Dublin? Surely a cheaper alternative can be provided outside of Dublin.
      If I could find a relatively well paid job outside of Leinster, I would happily settle down and build roots there before starting a family.
      I’m of the opinion that Dublin is at capacity. We should have an office tax for new developments within the M50. Force business to set up outside of Dublin, as this will be the benefit for all.

      Reply
    2. Ian-O

      Yep. While this may be a rather extreme case and subject to the usual ebb and flow of media interest, when this has died down the issue of sorting out a way for people to be able to afford a home needs to be addressed urgently. The situation as it stands simply cannot be allowed to continue – I bought my first home in the 90’s when I was in my 20’s – how on earth can someone in their 20’s today who isn’t on close to 6 figures buy a home or even get stable rental accommodation?

      There is a lot of speculation as to this woman’s motivations and tactics and while some of the less charitable views may have some merit, the vitriol she is receiving is baffling in comparison with the people in power who are on huge sums and are now set up for life with very favourable state pensions who seem to have no interest in tackling this case are receiving – you don’t need to be a bleeding heart or a gullible fool to see that a society that cannot provide reasonable housing – even to people who are working and willing and able to pay – is going to experience massive problems, socially and economically.

      Reply
  4. dan

    There is a shortage of housing, rents are too high and mortgages are too hard to come by and too expensive.
    Doen;t justify a scammer trying to jump the housing list

    Reply
    1. newsjustin

      +1

      This case and everyone promoting it in a context vacuum are doing a great disservice to people and families who are homeless, in very insecure housing/hostels/hotels, in dread fear of losing their homes, and those who are socially crippled by the dysfunctional housing situation.

      Reply
      1. Ian-O

        Wrong attitude Daisy – this woman and all the gullible idiots are the real villains here!

        Not REITS, not Michael Hep C Noonan, not Leo ”no achievements whatsoever” Varadkar, not Eoghan ”Shur me sleeves are rolled up so you KNOW I mean business”.

        Poor people with the utter cheek of wanting somewhere to live, that’s who we need to attack.

        To hell or to Connacht with them – that worked well in the past, didn’t it?

        Reply
        1. Rob_G

          I think you lost me; which of them of Noonan, Varadker or Murphy was it that forced this woman to keep firing out children?

          Reply
          1. Rob_G

            Is there anything to suggest that this lady would have availed of a termination for any of her pregnancies?

            Earlier you said that it was the fault of the Catholic Church for brainwashing her; then she was ‘exercising her rights under the constitution’ in having children, and now it’s the 8th Amendment’s fault – surely if she was brainwashed by the RCC, the 8th amendment would be unlikely to impact on her fecundity?

            Is anything ever anyone own responsibility with you, or can they just blame something else for their poor decision-making?

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            I never mentioned the catholic church. The law in this country is that if you’re pregnant, then you stay pregnant until you either give birth or miscarry. She doesn’t appear to have any issue with being pregnant and why would she? Surely it’s her choice as a woman to have them. Has anyone asked her partner why he didn’t show responsibility and abstain from intercourse as there’s no record of any of her pregnancies being a miraculous conception.

          3. Rob_G

            You are right re: Catholic Church comments, I see that that was Starina – apologies.

            “She doesn’t appear to have any issue with being pregnant and why would she? Surely it’s her choice as a woman to have them.”
            – she is incapable of taking care of the kids that she has, and yet continues to keep having them.

            I am sure that we would all been delighted if the partner had had a vasectomy or whatever, even if he had ‘no issue with [making her] pregnant, and why would [he]? Surely it is [his] choice as a [man] to have them?’

          4. Nigel

            Well you find a way to stop her that doesn’t infringe on her personal liberty or civil rights because hers are protected the same way yours and mine are protected and if the government can infringe them just because her fecundity offends you then they can infringe everyone’s for similar ludicrous reasons. You may also need time travel.

          5. Ian-O

            Lost you?

            No Rob, you lost yourself there. Pretty obvious point I was making there, you deliberately chose to misinterpret it so no much point engaging with you anymore.

            Toodle pip!

          6. rotide

            Daisy was blaming the church yesterday, just for accuracy.

            Also, nice to see a certain someone back under a new name, heyaa Ian-o

          7. Starina

            Rob_G, it’s none of your business but this woman’s intrauterine coil failed TWICE and she is on a long list to have her tubes tied. Abortion isn’t available in Ireland and it’s a lot of money (and babysitters) to fly to the UK. You judgy POS.

          8. Daisy Chainsaw

            Was I, rotide? Link please because I can’t find it. I quoted the constitution showing where a woman is entitled to have as many children as she pleases yet also forced by the 8th to carry all pregnancies to their natural end.

            How is that church bashing?

          9. rotide

            I’m not sure where the 8th comes into this though. Every woman in the state has had to live under the 8th and a ovwhelmingly large majority of them have avoided having 7 children

  5. Peter Dempsey

    I love seeing genuine working-class people like Dan rubbishing the mealy-mouthed lefty arguments in support of this woman. If she wasn’t a traveller – and instead was a middle class woman who fell on hard times – then the sympathy from the left would shrink.

    Reply
    1. Ian-O

      So you automatically believe what an anonymous poster on the comments section of broadsheet.ie says about themselves?

      Also, I love how ‘lefty’ is thrown around as if this issue was a simple 19th century political divide between left and right – its not, its about having a functioning society whereby people can have a stable home but sure drag in left, right, centre, up and down while you are it. That sort of jaded rhetoric seemed to have worked for Trumpy, so why not Peter Dempsey?

      For the record, I don’t consider myself a ‘lefty’ as life is way too complex for such simplistic categorizations.

      Reply
    2. Nigel

      If she was middle class and in need of help then yourself and working class Dan could unload on her without objection? That’s what you’re complaining about, that you can’t just attack people who need help without some lefty objecting? No wonder the governments is allowed to get away with repeated property debacles.

      Reply
  6. JunkFace

    Having more than 3 kids in modern Ireland is irresponsible. Unless you are very wealthy and your marriage/relationship is very strong. The ones affected most are the children, who had no say in anything. While I agree that the state needs to do more to help poor families in genuine difficulty with regards to housing, some are gaming the system. Six kids is a lot to have, it really is. And expecting everyone else to support your carelessness and lack of planning is not acceptable in the 21st, we have contraception!

    Reply
          1. rotide

            Who said anything about advocating it? You asked how to do it, I gave you an answer.

            But yeah, I’m with Rob that a lack of mickey money would probably make some inroads too.

        1. Ian-O

          Not sure who you think I am rotide but I hope they were nice to you! If so, then yeah, that was me (say it like you’re Elvis in the Kit Kat ad), if not, then shame on them!

          Reply
      1. Anomanomanom

        Its very very easy,no social welfare for anymore than 3 kids unless you name the father. Magically watch the “I don’t know who the da is” brigade disappear.

        Reply
        1. Nigel

          I’m not against looking at welfare reform provided the cure doesn’t end up being worse than the problem which is often the case with reforms that come from loud resentment over relatively small occurrences that are better and even cheaper tolerated in the long run.

          Reply
          1. Rob_G

            I agree that this case is not typical, but in not having provisions in place for situations like these, the state is providing perverse incentives for this messed-up game theory strategem of ‘have more kids = increased chance of a council house’. These incentives should be curbed, more for the sake of the human cost to the poor kids than the cost to the state.

          2. Nigel

            Honestly I think that sort of thing would be better curbed over time through education and intervention but I doubt it could ever be eliminated 100%.

        2. Ian-O

          Can we do the same with banks and insurance companies when they go bust too?

          (Yeah, I know, before you ask, they do ‘pay it back’. Eventually….sometimes, maybe….)

          Reply
          1. Rob_G

            Well I would agree with you.

            But even if we had not given a penny to the bondholders, even if there was no housing crisis, people having 7 kids and expecting the state to look after them rather than looking after them themselves would still be a problem for society – this is the problem that I, and I imagine many other posters, have with this situation.

      2. JunkFace

        Free TV advertising to companies who sell contraceptive products. Promote safe sex in schools more, teach teenagers about the realities of bringing up kids, cost to household, how to manage finances, basically scare the poo out of them at a young age, so they will think twice about it all when they start ‘ridin’.

        Reply
    1. Dhaughton99

      Someone worked the numbers on what they get a year.

      Job seekers/Unemployment (X2) – €193 per week
      Child benefit (x7) – €140 per month
      Rent allowance (capped) – 1,175 per month
      Fuel allowance (27 weeks x €22.50) – €608 pa
      Back to school – €1,250 pa
      Qualified child allowance – €223 per week
      Christmas Bonus – €358 pa

      TOTAL = €54,200!!

      Reply
      1. Nigel

        In fairness they also get the sort of precarious existence where they can end up homeless at short notice and the focus of some fairly negative national attention if they come under scrutiny. People think this is a family of scam artists who are fooling all the bleeding hearts, but it seems obvious to me given where they are and how they’re living, if that’s true, the people they’re mainly foolng is themselves.

        Reply
      2. Starina

        I earn just under €50k and I have no children, no car and no debt and it’s STILL a fuppin struggle to not live paycheck-to-paycheck in this city. 54,000 to feed 8 people is…not a lot.

        Reply
  7. Airey Naïve

    Disgusting, though they will be safer on the streets than being raped in churches, parish priests’ big houses, seminaries, and the large expensive cars of priests.

    Reply

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