A group of anti-abortion TDs want to make it an offence for women not to have a burial or a cremation after an abortion. It’s part of a number of measures aimed at making abortion as difficult as possible, copied from the US https://t.co/aPuob5nSYp
— Ellen Coyne (@ellenmcoyne) November 2, 2018
Nine TDs want to amend the bill to make it a criminal offence for a woman not to have a burial or a cremation after an abortion, including in cases where they had taken abortion pills prescribed by a GP at home.
The TDs who backed the proposal are: Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish and Carol Nolan.
TDs want women to have aborted foetuses buried (TEllen Coyne, The Times Ireland Edition)
Whist this makes for good outrage porn, it will never happen and they will be ignored as usual
It makes for good outrage porn because it’s outrageous..
What’s outrageous about showing care and respect for aborted humans? Even if they were denied the dignity of life, they are surely entitled to some respect and dignity in death, aren’t they?
Why? If a woman has a miscarriage in the first trimester – we don’t have a funeral or a cremation.
Why would an induced abortion be any different?
Perhaps a term limit is required. For those abortions that will occur later in pregnancy.
My understanding is the proposed legislation is only changing the restrictions relating to pregnancies in the 1st trimester (12 weeks).
Anything later in the pregnancy is similar as we currently have – if the woman’s life is in danger (and the baby isn’t viable). So these will be ‘wanted’ childer that unfortunately endanger the mother.
This is coming from the same crowd that want drink driving legal in rural Ireland, where 81 percent of alcohol-related road deaths occur. Where’s the respect and dignity for those victims? They’re more than happy to turn a blind eye there, much like they turn a blind eye to the women that have suffered under these laws for decades.
The one and only thing this is about is gombeens trying to secure votes. They can stick their rosaries where the sun don’t shine.
drink driving legal in rural Ireland, where 81 percent of alcohol-related road deaths occur.
If you have a problem with the figures, take it up with The Irish Times.
CRIMINALISING.
/\
I
The outrageous bit.
There’s nothing outrageous about showing care and respect, however I don’t accept that these measures are designed to show care and respect, I believe they are designed to punish women who have abortions.
It’s grotesque to use political power like that, and I’m disturbed that anyone could suggest in earnest that it is well intentioned.
Too simple for these morons, Nigel.
I agree it’s outrageous, but noone takes anything McGrath or Healy Rae says seriously at the best of times, why even bother getting uptight about this. The legislation will happen, and these boyos are still going to be screaming and shouting and they still won’t have any effect.
Still, it allows for some good ‘muh patriarchy’ comments i guess.
They are elected officials. Even if they are recognised as eejits, that doesn’t mean suggestions like this should be taken lightly. We fought hard for the referendum, suggesting that anyone objecting to this crap is saying “muh patriarchy” is dumb. Wind your neck in.
They can GTFO.
Eight men and a lady
Surely such a shining example of Christian compassion will extend to funding such burials/cremations out of their own fat pay packets……..LOL
Wonder will these lovely people be supporting Zappone’s legislation to block Inquests into the deaths of 800 children lying in a Tuam sewer. PS I could write a book on the number of ways in which a one to one conversation with Mattie McGrath is an unpleasant experience.
The old adage ‘a picture is worth a thousand words’ would shorten that book considerably , I presume the T.D’s mentioned will also be supporting an enquiry into the burials of our deceased crib mates , whom the state sold to medical schools and research facilities .
are these 9 people alright? whilst i would never belittle a mental illness, or use it to attack someone, i can only assume that for a person to think like this they have some sort of mental health illness
They do, it’s called ‘misogyny’.
Mysogny is not a mental illness.
It’s a mark of respect for the unborn and guarantees their bodies don’t get burnt for fuel or sold to people to fetishise over or use their organs.
Don’t believe? Do the research yourself. And to the person below who says this is misogyny, nobody has once alluded to the gender of the killed child so STFU you idiot
Who would face prosecution?
The misogyny is about the treatment of the women you idiot.
Cheers for that ReproButina, scary to think that Notfre couldn’t comprehend why I’d call it misogyny
The misogyny refers to the treatment of the women “you idiot”.
Cheers for that ReproButina, scary to think that Notfre couldn’t comprehend why I’d call it “misogyny”
Because for the likes of Notfre women don’t count. They’re just the vessel.
It’s a mark of respect for the unborn and guarantees their bodies don’t get burnt for fuel or sold to people to fetishise over or use their organs.
Please expand on this claim with supporting evidence
At 6-weeks, the foetus is the size of a sweet pea. Not much fuel (or organs) in that.
By 12-weeks (the proposed limit under the legislation), the foetus is about 2 inches long – the size of a lime – and weighs about 1/2 ounce. You’d need a fierce number of them to heat the house for the winter.
That is a very small lime. Not enough for a decent mojito anyway…
Spot on Cian. This awful proposal also doesn’t take into account those with wanted but fatal prognosis pregnancies, who very may already be planning how to say goodbye to their baby (eg Liverpool Women’s Hospital provide a service for this). It’s the assumption they are somehow heartless and not thinking of this themselves that hurts. They don’t need a bunch of moralisers preaching
Not forgetting their legion of supporters and voters…
the usual ghouls. someone should cremate the lot of them.
Always find it odd how RTE love to use Michael Fitzmaurice as “the voice of common sense”. The 9 above should be named and shamed for this, sick f**ks
Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Carol Nolan
Er, as listed in the main post above, he added redundantly.
Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Carol Nolan.
FYI.
Wait, did you say Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Carol Nolan?
What’re we talking about again?
We didn’t start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world’s been turning
The new Boyzone line-up.
Some bunch
Who are? Do you mean Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Carol Nolan?
There seem to be an awful lot of Mickeys opposed to abortion rights.
#notallmickeys
It’s baffling that they do this.
Not really. It’s entirely in their hateful characters.
My comment was in reply to Nigel’s about RTE and Fitzmaurice.
The usual mutants.
What are the alternatives to burial or cremation? Lampshades and kid gloves? Or more reasonably, medical research including stem cell stuff?
Most of them will be flushed down the loo.
It’s like a heavy period.
That’s just insane.
Fupp ’em!
The referendum for choice. The people voted overwhelmingly for choice. And here are the usual dipshards moving to the front of the class with their nonsense. Cool hand – Lowry, the child of Prague weather system Healy-Raes and Mattie f’in Mc Grath… We can’t police her choice of what she grows in her body so we will police how she deals with that choice she is allowed to make. Just go away…. little Jack Russells nipping at your heels.
Wow.
Loads of posts expressing outrage about the fate of dead babies allegedly buried in a sewer.
This one is expresses outrage that future dead babies might be given a burial at all.
You people must have whiplash.
Still struggling with the difference between a baby and a foetus I see.
Lot of that going on
Flat earthers
Every fetus is a baby.
Every fetus is a human life.
Notwithstanding your obvious linguistic gymnastics, denying the truth doesn’t change the truth.
It barely provides a fig leaf for your hypocrisy.
and every sperm is sacred.
People called Romanes, they go, the house.
Church and State both disagree with your “every fetus [sic] is a baby” fairy tale.
And so did the Irish electorate.
Keep it up there Butina…. Deny the plain reality in front of your eyes.
Your hypocrisy must be getting cold in this weather.
The reality is that the country agrees with me, the country voted for abortion and abortion is coming.
Is Cranky a Septic? The misspelling of foetus is a bit of a giveaway.
Definitely a man who will never experience a period or pregnancy!
Please explain why you think it is necessary to make this a criminal offence.
Because they couldn’t keep the line in the constitution that allowed them to criminalise women in crisis pregnancies so they have to get her somehow.
I really despair.
We have Fg and FF who are not fit to govern, but the alternatce is this rag tag bunch of gubers?
Every time we laud Clare Daly and Catherine Connolly as independents and clamour for more of the same, these Neanderthal’s emerge from the swamp to remind us what’s on offer.
So those TD’s, I reckon they would agree what happened in Tuam was also a crime ?
Standard playbook from the US anti-abortion movement.
My sis-in-law had a miscarriage last year in Poland. They had family life insurance and with that policy could claim the loss of their baby however in order to claim this, they HAD to have a ‘funeral’ which I thought was awful. They got the payout and life moved on. I realise their situation was different but would/could this apply here?
Sorry to hear that Boj. I hope the family are okay.
Out of curiosity – what stage of the pregnancy was this? I’m guessing it wasn’t in the first trimester?
The best way to explain to Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish and Carol Nolan that they aren’t representing the views of the Irish people is to simply not vote for them ever, ever again. Screw Parish Pump politics.
They do realise the Church has traditionally refused to bury or acknowledge miscarriages right? Because when the woman is mourning, it’s ‘shut up, keep quiet’. But if she wishes to exert control over her bodily autonomy, it’s ‘evil whore, see what you’ve done’.
I am so, so sick of saying this but since these gowls don’t seem to know anything about women’s actual biological reality: statistically most abortions are medical, ie pills, ie prior to eight weeks, ie do not in fact leave any discernible remains (a heavy bleed is all).
Not long ago, the Catholic Church and authorities left the fathers of stillborn babies in Dublin to bury their lost babies, alone and informally, in the Glasnevin Angels’ Plot – a plot which existed due to the compassionate position of the graveyard guardians, and with the compassionate assistance of gravediggers. They let mothers come back later and try to measure where their babies were according to how many steps from the perimeter the burial was made. Nobody thought there was anything wrong with this.
This institution always has and always will despise women. The fact that elected politicians can lack empathy to this degree is nauseating. They are like over-excited and particularly stupid schoolchildren in their grasp of life, biology, psychology, and economics.
If what the Catholic Church taught and did in the past around stillborn babies was so terrible, as you say, shouldn’t we, as progressive, modern, Irish women and men, NOT fall into that same hardness of heart and lack of compassion. Aborted humans should be treated with the utmost care and respect and given a decent, dignified, funeral ceremony of some sort and a final resting place – shouldn’t they?
Can you explain why you think aborted humans should be treated with the utmost care and respect and given a decent, dignified, funeral ceremony of some sort and a final resting place
Because they are humans.
Many will be unwanted humans. But they are human.
So should the same be true for the 30,000[1]+ miscarriages that happen annually in Ireland?
[1]estimated
Perhaps. Or maybe the deliberate nature of the induced abortion warrants a particular response.
Why? What possible reason could there be for a “particular response” other than to shame the woman?
Ah here
Look at that list of names
a pair of Healy Raes
a string of Mickies
Grealish and Carol Nolan
And a slighly touched Blueshurt
Lay’ve ’em at it
They’ve little to be doing
Since they have SFA to offer on Brexit
The Budget, The Housing Emergency
or anything of any significance
Simon Harris has the votes from every angle of the Dáil
Let them have their ranting and raving
Shur it gives us something to talk about
But, but, but de dublin meedja!
Shur twas all their fault Michael Lowry ended up with a conviction wasn’t it.
Are you referring to this list of names: Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Carol Nolan?
Yes, the names Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, and Carol Nolan.
You called?
Ah
A devotee
Mickeys and then we find Michael Fits Maurice, and Peter Fits Patrick. Odd then, to have a concern about women’s rights. Strange country.
Next time you lot vote you should read what you’re voting for.
Repealing the 8th amendment did not automatically introduce abortion on demand for anybody who wants it.
It simply allows that “Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy.”
The important word here is “may”.
The lads and lassies in the Dail are duly debating possible legislation. Just doing their job as enabled by all you screaming hapries who thought you were voting for a woman’s right to destroy her own children.
In fact, legislation covering the termination of pregnancies already exists. No further action necessary.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/35/enacted/en/pdf
Abortion is health care after all, right? Isn’t that what you kept screaming at every opportunity?
The fact that the Oireachtas would still have to legislate (further) for abortion upon repeal of 40.3.3 was regularly trotted out as a reason why repealing the 8th was such a sensible, progressive thing to do. Now that the process of refining the legislation is underway, some people get hot under the collar when elements of an abortion regime they don’t fancy are suggested.
“We voted for choice!!”
No. You didn’t. You voted explicitly to allow a bunch of politicians you wouldn’t trust to run a water company to decide how and how fast you may terminate unborn humans.
^__^ This
This would be slightly true if not for the layout of the bill that was released and discussed for weeks in the lead up to the referendum.
We knew what was coming, this is just the shame women brigade desperately trying to hold back the tide.
You all made a big noise, you all lied your bottie-boos off about abortion as healthcare, you all got what you said you wanted and now you all realise you suckers were suckerd.
Yeah, Boo.
Sucks to be you.
Quick question there Cranky, what was the majority when the Dáil voted on the second stage of the bill?
It’s coming and there’s nothing you and the rest of the god bothering misogynists can do to stop it.
You’re so delighted about the possibility of legal cover for the destruction of human life in a mother’s womb you’re practically salivating.
Not a good look.
Yeah. We know. Which is why you have to keep a close eye on the feckers.
Can we bury these Gombeens metaphorically speaking at the next election please ?
I’m happy to go literal here..
Where’s Daisy chainsaw? I’m getting worried at this stage
Gotta be on holidays teaching women to drive in Saudi, its the only explanation
Google is your friend.
Maybe lets focus on making it illegal for a national maternity hospital to refuse to provide abortions especially as its building costs came out of our taxes
Everything else is smoke and mirrors
And maybe Harris needs to explain why he handed them the keys to our hospital to the church giving hospital workers the right to refuse providing them
Tick tock we were promised life saving terminations by January and nothing done so far except kicking parcel down road
“we were promised life saving terminations by January and nothing done so far except kicking parcel down road.”
What utter nonsense.
Any life saving abortion needed to save the life of the mother is absolutely legal today in Ireland. What you’re impatiently waiting on is non-life-saving abortions. Abortions to destroy human life for no healthcare reason.
Non life saving does not equal no healthcare reason. Obviously.
Yes. Add “Including” to the start of the last sentence.
No answer to awkward question?
Delete the question.