As Difficult As Possible

at | 107 Replies

 

Nine TDs want to amend the bill to make it a criminal offence for a woman not to have a burial or a cremation after an abortion, including in cases where they had taken abortion pills prescribed by a GP at home.

The TDs who backed the proposal are: Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish and Carol Nolan.

TDs want women to have aborted foetuses buried (TEllen Coyne, The Times Ireland Edition)

Rollingnews

107 thoughts on “As Difficult As Possible

      1. newsjustin

        What’s outrageous about showing care and respect for aborted humans? Even if they were denied the dignity of life, they are surely entitled to some respect and dignity in death, aren’t they?

        Reply
        1. Cian

          Why? If a woman has a miscarriage in the first trimester – we don’t have a funeral or a cremation.

          Why would an induced abortion be any different?

          Reply
          1. Cian

            My understanding is the proposed legislation is only changing the restrictions relating to pregnancies in the 1st trimester (12 weeks).

            Anything later in the pregnancy is similar as we currently have – if the woman’s life is in danger (and the baby isn’t viable). So these will be ‘wanted’ childer that unfortunately endanger the mother.

        2. CoderNerd

          This is coming from the same crowd that want drink driving legal in rural Ireland, where 81 percent of alcohol-related road deaths occur. Where’s the respect and dignity for those victims? They’re more than happy to turn a blind eye there, much like they turn a blind eye to the women that have suffered under these laws for decades.

          The one and only thing this is about is gombeens trying to secure votes. They can stick their rosaries where the sun don’t shine.

          Reply
        3. Lobster

          There’s nothing outrageous about showing care and respect, however I don’t accept that these measures are designed to show care and respect, I believe they are designed to punish women who have abortions.
          It’s grotesque to use political power like that, and I’m disturbed that anyone could suggest in earnest that it is well intentioned.

          Reply
      2. rotide

        I agree it’s outrageous, but noone takes anything McGrath or Healy Rae says seriously at the best of times, why even bother getting uptight about this. The legislation will happen, and these boyos are still going to be screaming and shouting and they still won’t have any effect.

        Still, it allows for some good ‘muh patriarchy’ comments i guess.

        Reply
        1. Lobster

          They are elected officials. Even if they are recognised as eejits, that doesn’t mean suggestions like this should be taken lightly. We fought hard for the referendum, suggesting that anyone objecting to this crap is saying “muh patriarchy” is dumb. Wind your neck in.

          Reply
  1. RT

    Surely such a shining example of Christian compassion will extend to funding such burials/cremations out of their own fat pay packets……..LOL

    Reply
  2. Kevin Higgins

    Wonder will these lovely people be supporting Zappone’s legislation to block Inquests into the deaths of 800 children lying in a Tuam sewer. PS I could write a book on the number of ways in which a one to one conversation with Mattie McGrath is an unpleasant experience.

    Reply
    1. Elm wood

      The old adage ‘a picture is worth a thousand words’ would shorten that book considerably , I presume the T.D’s mentioned will also be supporting an enquiry into the burials of our deceased crib mates , whom the state sold to medical schools and research facilities .

      Reply
  3. BS

    are these 9 people alright? whilst i would never belittle a mental illness, or use it to attack someone, i can only assume that for a person to think like this they have some sort of mental health illness

    Reply
    1. Notfre

      It’s a mark of respect for the unborn and guarantees their bodies don’t get burnt for fuel or sold to people to fetishise over or use their organs.

      Don’t believe? Do the research yourself. And to the person below who says this is misogyny, nobody has once alluded to the gender of the killed child so STFU you idiot

      Reply
      1. BS

        It’s a mark of respect for the unborn and guarantees their bodies don’t get burnt for fuel or sold to people to fetishise over or use their organs.

        Please expand on this claim with supporting evidence

        Reply
        1. Cian

          At 6-weeks, the foetus is the size of a sweet pea. Not much fuel (or organs) in that.
          By 12-weeks (the proposed limit under the legislation), the foetus is about 2 inches long – the size of a lime – and weighs about 1/2 ounce. You’d need a fierce number of them to heat the house for the winter.

          Reply
          1. missred

            Spot on Cian. This awful proposal also doesn’t take into account those with wanted but fatal prognosis pregnancies, who very may already be planning how to say goodbye to their baby (eg Liverpool Women’s Hospital provide a service for this). It’s the assumption they are somehow heartless and not thinking of this themselves that hurts. They don’t need a bunch of moralisers preaching

  4. BobbyJ

    Always find it odd how RTE love to use Michael Fitzmaurice as “the voice of common sense”. The 9 above should be named and shamed for this, sick f**ks

    Reply
    1. Nigel

      Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Carol Nolan

      Reply
        1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

          Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Carol Nolan.
          FYI.

          Reply
          1. Nigel

            Wait, did you say Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Carol Nolan?

  5. Eoin

    What are the alternatives to burial or cremation? Lampshades and kid gloves? Or more reasonably, medical research including stem cell stuff?

    Reply
  6. kellMA

    The referendum for choice. The people voted overwhelmingly for choice. And here are the usual dipshards moving to the front of the class with their nonsense. Cool hand – Lowry, the child of Prague weather system Healy-Raes and Mattie f’in Mc Grath… We can’t police her choice of what she grows in her body so we will police how she deals with that choice she is allowed to make. Just go away…. little Jack Russells nipping at your heels.

    Reply
  7. Cranky Pants

    Wow.

    Loads of posts expressing outrage about the fate of dead babies allegedly buried in a sewer.

    This one is expresses outrage that future dead babies might be given a burial at all.

    You people must have whiplash.

    Reply
      1. Cranky Pants

        Every fetus is a baby.
        Every fetus is a human life.

        Notwithstanding your obvious linguistic gymnastics, denying the truth doesn’t change the truth.

        It barely provides a fig leaf for your hypocrisy.

        Reply
        1. ReproButina

          Church and State both disagree with your “every fetus [sic] is a baby” fairy tale.

          And so did the Irish electorate.

          Reply
          1. Cranky Pants

            Keep it up there Butina…. Deny the plain reality in front of your eyes.

            Your hypocrisy must be getting cold in this weather.

          2. ReproButina

            The reality is that the country agrees with me, the country voted for abortion and abortion is coming.

        2. Daisy Chainsaw

          Is Cranky a Septic? The misspelling of foetus is a bit of a giveaway.

          Definitely a man who will never experience a period or pregnancy!

          Reply
      1. kellMA

        Because they couldn’t keep the line in the constitution that allowed them to criminalise women in crisis pregnancies so they have to get her somehow.

        Reply
    1. Otis Blue

      Every time we laud Clare Daly and Catherine Connolly as independents and clamour for more of the same, these Neanderthal’s emerge from the swamp to remind us what’s on offer.

      Reply
  8. Boj

    My sis-in-law had a miscarriage last year in Poland. They had family life insurance and with that policy could claim the loss of their baby however in order to claim this, they HAD to have a ‘funeral’ which I thought was awful. They got the payout and life moved on. I realise their situation was different but would/could this apply here?

    Reply
    1. Cian

      Sorry to hear that Boj. I hope the family are okay.
      Out of curiosity – what stage of the pregnancy was this? I’m guessing it wasn’t in the first trimester?

      Reply
  9. Rapscallion

    The best way to explain to Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish and Carol Nolan that they aren’t representing the views of the Irish people is to simply not vote for them ever, ever again. Screw Parish Pump politics.

    Reply
  10. Niamh

    They do realise the Church has traditionally refused to bury or acknowledge miscarriages right? Because when the woman is mourning, it’s ‘shut up, keep quiet’. But if she wishes to exert control over her bodily autonomy, it’s ‘evil whore, see what you’ve done’.

    I am so, so sick of saying this but since these gowls don’t seem to know anything about women’s actual biological reality: statistically most abortions are medical, ie pills, ie prior to eight weeks, ie do not in fact leave any discernible remains (a heavy bleed is all).

    Not long ago, the Catholic Church and authorities left the fathers of stillborn babies in Dublin to bury their lost babies, alone and informally, in the Glasnevin Angels’ Plot – a plot which existed due to the compassionate position of the graveyard guardians, and with the compassionate assistance of gravediggers. They let mothers come back later and try to measure where their babies were according to how many steps from the perimeter the burial was made. Nobody thought there was anything wrong with this.

    This institution always has and always will despise women. The fact that elected politicians can lack empathy to this degree is nauseating. They are like over-excited and particularly stupid schoolchildren in their grasp of life, biology, psychology, and economics.

    Reply
    1. newsjustin

      If what the Catholic Church taught and did in the past around stillborn babies was so terrible, as you say, shouldn’t we, as progressive, modern, Irish women and men, NOT fall into that same hardness of heart and lack of compassion. Aborted humans should be treated with the utmost care and respect and given a decent, dignified, funeral ceremony of some sort and a final resting place – shouldn’t they?

      Reply
      1. Cian

        Can you explain why you think aborted humans should be treated with the utmost care and respect and given a decent, dignified, funeral ceremony of some sort and a final resting place

        Reply
          1. Cian

            So should the same be true for the 30,000[1]+ miscarriages that happen annually in Ireland?

            [1]estimated

          2. newsjustin

            Perhaps. Or maybe the deliberate nature of the induced abortion warrants a particular response.

          3. ReproButina

            Why? What possible reason could there be for a “particular response” other than to shame the woman?

  11. Vanessa off the Telly

    Ah here
    Look at that list of names
    a pair of Healy Raes
    a string of Mickies
    Grealish and Carol Nolan
    And a slighly touched Blueshurt

    Lay’ve ’em at it
    They’ve little to be doing
    Since they have SFA to offer on Brexit
    The Budget, The Housing Emergency
    or anything of any significance
    Simon Harris has the votes from every angle of the Dáil
    Let them have their ranting and raving

    Shur it gives us something to talk about

    Reply
    1. Spaghetti Hoop

      Are you referring to this list of names: Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Carol Nolan?

      Reply
      1. Dub Spot

        Yes, the names Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, and Carol Nolan.

        Reply
        1. Mattie McGrath, Michael Lowry, Michael Healy-Rae, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Collins, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Carol Nolan

          You called?

          Reply
    2. Dub Spot

      Mickeys and then we find Michael Fits Maurice, and Peter Fits Patrick. Odd then, to have a concern about women’s rights. Strange country.

      Reply
  12. Cranky Pants

    Next time you lot vote you should read what you’re voting for.

    Repealing the 8th amendment did not automatically introduce abortion on demand for anybody who wants it.

    It simply allows that “Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy.”

    The important word here is “may”.

    The lads and lassies in the Dail are duly debating possible legislation. Just doing their job as enabled by all you screaming hapries who thought you were voting for a woman’s right to destroy her own children.

    In fact, legislation covering the termination of pregnancies already exists. No further action necessary.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/35/enacted/en/pdf

    Abortion is health care after all, right? Isn’t that what you kept screaming at every opportunity?

    Reply
    1. newsjustin

      The fact that the Oireachtas would still have to legislate (further) for abortion upon repeal of 40.3.3 was regularly trotted out as a reason why repealing the 8th was such a sensible, progressive thing to do. Now that the process of refining the legislation is underway, some people get hot under the collar when elements of an abortion regime they don’t fancy are suggested.

      “We voted for choice!!”
      No. You didn’t. You voted explicitly to allow a bunch of politicians you wouldn’t trust to run a water company to decide how and how fast you may terminate unborn humans.

      Reply
      1. ReproButina

        This would be slightly true if not for the layout of the bill that was released and discussed for weeks in the lead up to the referendum.

        We knew what was coming, this is just the shame women brigade desperately trying to hold back the tide.

        Reply
        1. Cranky Pants

          You all made a big noise, you all lied your bottie-boos off about abortion as healthcare, you all got what you said you wanted and now you all realise you suckers were suckerd.

          Yeah, Boo.
          Sucks to be you.

          Reply
          1. ReproButina

            Quick question there Cranky, what was the majority when the Dáil voted on the second stage of the bill?

            It’s coming and there’s nothing you and the rest of the god bothering misogynists can do to stop it.

          2. Cranky Pants

            You’re so delighted about the possibility of legal cover for the destruction of human life in a mother’s womb you’re practically salivating.

            Not a good look.

  13. morris

    Maybe lets focus on making it illegal for a national maternity hospital to refuse to provide abortions especially as its building costs came out of our taxes
    Everything else is smoke and mirrors
    And maybe Harris needs to explain why he handed them the keys to our hospital to the church giving hospital workers the right to refuse providing them
    Tick tock we were promised life saving terminations by January and nothing done so far except kicking parcel down road

    Reply
    1. newsjustin

      “we were promised life saving terminations by January and nothing done so far except kicking parcel down road.”

      What utter nonsense.

      Any life saving abortion needed to save the life of the mother is absolutely legal today in Ireland. What you’re impatiently waiting on is non-life-saving abortions. Abortions to destroy human life for no healthcare reason.

      Reply

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