De Saturday Papers

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50 thoughts on “De Saturday Papers

  1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    There has to be second referendum. Perhaps, a general election on the same day, just to ensure enough people come out to vote. A border poll might be good, too.

    Reply
    1. SOQ

      The one thing some people seem to forget is that the Tories are the party supported by most of the business community, and they want to remain in the CU. They are the ones who generate most of the wealth and apart from the CBI and Jaguar, they have largely remained silent, at least in public. But in private they have won the battle.

      But the biggest coup of all is that Labour’s message is now resonating right across the country. Better or worse off is the question being asked and the right wing ideologues have no real answer. Rich con men may continue to shout from the sidelines but Brexit can, and will, be reversed.

      Reply
      1. Ollie Cromwell

        This would be the message that’s resonating so well across the country that only 8% – yes,just 8% – of people polled by YouGov want a 2nd referendum.
        The poll,published yesterday,also showed only 36% of people wanted to reverse Brexit while 46% were still in favour of leaving the EU.
        While we’re on polls two years after the referendum and the disastrous handling of negotiations by May as well as the terrible GE by the Tories Jeremy Corbyn still trails behind May and Don’t Knows as the choice of PM.
        You don’t have a bull’s notion what you’re talking about.

        Reply
          1. Ollie Cromwell

            There was always going to be a vote on the deal you nincompoop.
            What I said was it won’t get through it.
            Honestly,the low level of intelligence you show at times is a rather damning indictment of the Irish education system.

          2. dav

            ollie your brexit minister hadn’t realised how important Dover/Calis was to UK trade until after he got the job. people in glass houses..etc

        1. nothatkeen

          Got a link? Because this one contradicts you:

          https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/first-poll-since-brexit-deal-voters-want-a-new-referendum-a3990851.html

          * 54 per cent voting Remain, versus 46 per cent Leave
          * Backing for a fresh referendum is the highest recorded so far, with 48 per cent in favour and only 34 per cent against. Excluding don’t knows, the margin is 59-42. If May’s deal is voted down, that jumps higher to 64-36, excluding don’t knows.
          * Just 12 per cent think Britain is heading for a good deal, while 85 per cent think the process of leaving is “a mess”. Seven in 10 say Brexit-backers gave false promises.

          Reply
          1. DeKloot

            Bwahahaha. Look at what was being asked. Specifically. When asked a simple in or out question, it’s 54/46 remain. But you know that. You’re presenting oblique information and in an attempt to make up your own facts.

          2. Ollie Cromwell

            Quite why my previous posts showing the YouGov poll have not been put up is beyond me.
            But you’ll find it on their Twitter feed yesterday.
            Trying to post on BS with its amateurish moderation is becoming tortuous.

          3. Formerly known as @ireland.com

            @Ollie – 28% say Remain in EU, in your survey. That is the biggest % of the poll. Nice of you to ignore that one.

          4. DeKloot

            Absolutely. The fallacious nature of his post cherry picks a % based on multiple outcomes. The most recent binary in/out tells a completely different story. #comicalollie.

          5. Ollie Cromwell

            The poll is really rather simple to understand.
            36% of those polled either wanted to Remain in the EU or have a 2nd referendum.
            46% wished to Leave the EU with a deal,a no deal or a new deal.
            The reality is opinions on Brexit have barely changed within the boundary of statistical error since the referendum.

  2. Giggidygoo

    The Podium Three – Varadkar, Coveney and Helen McEntee – with their blue backdrop, dropped themselves in it yet again heiling a ‘draft’ agreement as some sort of success. They must be hard up if they think they can pull the wool over our eyes.

    Reply
    1. Giggidygoo

      ( “difficult to avoid hard border without no brexit deal, Varadkar admits” is the headline on the Indo website just now. What about the backstop then, that was announced many months ago as being bullet proof, legally binding etc?)

      Reply
      1. ReproButina

        Do we really need to explain this to you again? The options are that NI stays in the customs union with the border in the Irish Sea. This is the backstop and remains unless a better deal is struck or the UK walk away with a No Deal Hard Sasamach. Right now the deal the British Taoiseach is trying to get passed has the whole of the UK remain in the customs union, which satisfies the “better deal” part of the Backstop.

        If that deal is rejected then a No Deal Sasamach becomes very likely. Nobody can put conditions on a No Deal scenario because doing so would require a deal. This has always been the situation.

        This really is simple stuff.

        Reply
        1. Giggidygoo

          It’s so simple that you can’t get your head around the spin and lies of the Podium Three obviously.
          Explain to us again about the agreement that we were told about many months ago – that there was a legal backstop which was bullet proof and legally binding. And then refer to your last paragraph. Looks like you’re having severe problems in the understanding department

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          1. ReproButina

            Are you being intentionally dense?

            The agreement of December 2017 is clear. If the UK want a deal then that deal must incorporate the backstop. That’s the bulletproof, legally binding part and the deal on offer incorporates the backstop.

            A no deal Sasamach contains no conditions, backstops or trade deals because it’s the UK leaving with No Deal. You’re acting like this is something new when for months on this site I’ve been saying it’s a deal with the backstop or no deal and this has been the situation in the negotiations for almost a year now. It’s why the government has been talking about the backstop while also preparing for the possibility of a hard border should the UK leave with no deal.

            A deal with the backstop or no deal.

            What about that is so hard for you to understand?

          2. Giggidygoo

            From the article: ‘Ireland secured a commitment that there will be no hard border with Northern Ireland even if the UK leaves the EU without a deal.”

            Now read Barnkers statement two days ago. Why is he speaking of a solution the the NI hard border problem, if there’s a backstop?

            You still can’t understand the written word, nor the game as it’s playing out, nor the changes in phrasing, nor the time limited aspect by the the Podium Three?

          3. ReproButina

            I have no idea why the “podium three”, as you call them, spoke about the backstop covering a no deal scenario. That was never my understanding of it and the governments actions in preparing for a no deal scenario never reflected that claim either.

            I have never claimed the backstop covered no deal. I have repeatedly stated that it was backstop or no deal, a position repeated here: https://www.google.ie/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiRy-_Oq9veAhWJJsAKHVquDxwQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Fuk%2Fbrexit-what-is-the-backstop-agreement-and-why-does-it-matter-1.3571135&psig=AOvVaw0E-woFXtogl5MJzSY0WCSb&ust=1542541123217195

            This article mentions the UK commitment to an invisible border but does not say the backstop applies in the event of No Deal.

          4. Eoin

            Agree with Repro (mostly).

            If there is no deal, then all bets are off and the UK is free is start everything again on its own terms.

            There are three flies in that ointment though, the Good Friday Agreement is “an international agreement registered with the UN”, and that should act to stop a hard border on the British side. But in an armageddon scenario, would the Brits ditch the GFA?

            The second fly is the potential for a return to violence. Does the UK want another civil war, no so long after the last one, where in the dying stages, the Republicans grasped that one bomb in London equals 100 in a far-flung “province” that many in England would hardly recognise on a map.

            The third fly is the Common Travel Area. Just because all of us have known visa free travel to and from the UK in our lifetimes doesn’t guarantee such an arrangement in future. What if the UK decides to tear up that agreement. Will Irish passport holders in the UK be on the same level as Afghanis or Pakistanis? Could they be deported? It would certainly solve the English housing crisis (5m deported to Ireland, 250k deported to UK by Ireland in retaliation).

            This government should now be throwing a few €100m on a hard border scenario, recruiting customs, vets and a couple of thousand Gardai. Some of that might go to waste if there is a deal, but after the internal UK chaos of the last 29 months, we need to be ultra cautious.

          5. Giggidygoo

            We can but debate based on the information we are presented with. At this stage I don’t thing we can really rely on our own understandings of what has been spun. The reason i’ve been saying that there was no backstop is because of the ever changing and conflicting statements coming out of our own government, when it has always been quite clear that the British have no intention of conflicting any of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
            A text was produced last december that was only produced in order to get further into the other discussions. But all it was was a text. Varadkar and the others hailed it as a deal, and crowed over it as ‘bullet-proof and cast iron ’, and stating that there was a backstop agreed. It was just a text, same way as they came out a few days ago and hailed another text, a draft document, also as a deal. But they’re drawing back already from those comments.

            I still hold the opinion that ther wasn’t a backstop deal back in December. The only ‘deal’ done back then was that if May worded a text in a particular way, in a non-legal document, then the EU would allow the talks to proceed to the next stage.

            I actually feel a. bit sorry for Helen McEntee in all of this. We have a Taoiseach and a Foreign Affairs Minister sho should be well capable of handling the matter. I’m of the view that they are just spreading the responsibility away from their failings. McEntee just seems like a press secretary for them.

          6. ReproButina

            Except that the agreement reached in December 2017 was “a deal with a backstop or no deal” and that situation remains.

            That Leo & Co portrayed it as something else doesn’t change what was agreed.

        2. MaryLou's ArmaLite

          He doesn’t want to get it because he is blinded by his hate for Leo. He won’t get it because he have to admit he was wrong, and a shinner never does that.

          Reply
          1. DeKloot

            That and shouldn’t he/they be negotiating arms deals in Colombia?!

            There’s work to be done Comrades!

            Hard Brexit prep and all…

            Seriously though. The puerile efforts to hang this on Leo & Co is witless, fatuous and inane.

          2. GiggidyGoo

            Still posting, basically, nothing, I see. When you do enter the education system, come back and try again (by writing something about the subject itself, instead of your preconceived notions about someone you don’t know)

  3. Ron

    Another fupp up for Leo and his band of Muppets. Let’s see what spin and lies they tell the people next. Keep on voting for them lol

    Reply
  4. nothatkeen

    Got a link? Because this one contradicts you:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/first-poll-since-brexit-deal-voters-want-a-new-referendum-a3990851.html

    * 54 per cent voting Remain, versus 46 per cent Leave
    * Backing for a fresh referendum is the highest recorded so far, with 48 per cent in favour and only 34 per cent against. Excluding don’t knows, the margin is 59-42. If May’s deal is voted down, that jumps higher to 64-36, excluding don’t knows.
    * Just 12 per cent think Britain is heading for a good deal, while 85 per cent think the process of leaving is “a mess”. Seven in 10 say Brexit-backers gave false promises.

    Reply
    1. Eoin

      There’s only one poll that counts and that was the one in June 2016.

      Doesn’t matter what a poll says, or if you get 700,000 or even 7m to come out on the streets to protest. 17m voted to Leave. They’re going. It’s just a matter of damage limitation.

      Reply
  5. SOQ

    Brexit explained by The Spice Girls

    UK: I’ll tell you what I want, what I really, really want
    EU: So tell me what you want, what you really, really want
    UK: I’ll tell you what I want, what I really, really want
    EU: So tell me what you want, what you really, really want

    [Repeats for 28 months]

    Reply
      1. SOQ

        “A Brexit deal could take ten years. That’s not fair. Most of the people who voted for it could be dead by then.” – Gary Lineker

        Reply
      1. Martco

        a great & famous win, fully deserved man of the match for Peter O’Mahony

        can they keep it together now for the WC is the question, but I’ll take today!!!

        Reply

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