From top: This morning’s Irish Daily Mail; Irish Times
Further to the shooting incident involving a Garda detective in Longford on Monday evening…
Michael Doyle, in The Irish Sun, reports:
“During the incident, what appeared to be a warning shot was fired and Blondie [Christopher ‘Blondie’ Stokes] was hit by a bullet in the foot from a Garda-issue Sig Sauer handgun.
Sources said an Alsatian dog attacked the cop and had to be shot in self-defence…“
However…
The injured man’s uncle Ned ‘Sonny’ Stokes, who arrived on the scene minutes later, said no pooch was killed.
He told the Irish Sun: “When I got there, I met the garda and asked him what happened.
“I went over and I saw Chris after being hit in the leg.
“They have two dogs and I could see them tied up at the back, not a bother on them.”
Anyone?
Yesterday: Meanwhile in Longford
if omens count for anything, then the winner of the elvis costello competition should obviously be ‘watching the detectives’.
hopefully, seeing as that was my choice :)
Not ‘Accidents Will Happen’?
ah, come on…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01GnnGFR0zM
Lucky Dog
I sucked in my final breath
Stared into the eyes of death
Laughed right in the face of chance
And said hey son do you want to dance
But I was trembling deep inside
My faithful friend right at my side
As that firefight began
He had the courage of twenty men
The days are never really done
The war’s not over until it’s won
If you want to count on anyone
Then thank the Lord you’re free
Who was that lucky dog
Was it him or me
Who was that lucky dog
Was it him or me
When the enemy is closing in
And you’ve either got to run or win
You think that this might be the end
You’re really going to need a friend
But I don’t care for fancy words
Ignoble speeches that I have heard
Or the lies and tricks that they employ
What was that you were saying boy
The days are never really done
The war’s not over until it’s won
If you need to count on anyone
Then thank the Lord you’re free
Who was that lucky dog
Was it him or me
Who was that lucky dog
Was it him or me
This means we’ll have a Best of Blondie competition soon.
It’s a dog’s life in a rope leash or a diamond collar
Oh here we go. Spin spin circle the wagons
You mean here we go , the actual facts are starting to emerge.
FACTS from the gardai about the gardai. lol.
As opposed to FACTS from youtube comments?
Nope, more sides to this story are emerging, so far, the only fact is that someone was shot in the leg.
Everything else is subject to a proper inquiry. What is clear though is that AGS have ensured that their word will not be taken as fact without such an inquiry for some time to come for very good reasons.
So no, no actual facts emerging as you claim above.
we’re going to get a much better picture of what happened from articles like this and inquiries than from the text of a youtube video
rotide: You mean here we go , the actual facts are starting to emerge.
rotide: As opposed to FACTS from youtube comments?
rotide: we’re going to get a much better picture of what happened from articles like this and inquiries than from the text of a youtube video
Sorry, but first it was facts, then it was inferring that the youtube video was not fully contextual, then it was just partially parroting what I already said about a proper inquiry.
Watch your step on that climb down.
“we’re going to get a much better picture of what happened from articles like this”
articles like this were AGS leak the type of information they want in the papers.
Thank god there wasn’t a large tribunal showing that AGS have history of leaking false information to create a narrative they want.
I’m not inferring that the youtube video was not contextual, I’m flat out stating it.
You may also note the use of the word ‘starting’ , with which I am implying that the now that the media are starting to write about it, we can expect some actual information other than what some zealot wrote on his youtube channel.
@rep Articles like this feature a reporter asking people questions, not leaks from ags
You literally have no idea where the sources for this report came from.
The injured man’s uncle Ned ‘Sonny’ Stokes, who arrived on the scene minutes later, said no pooch was killed.
He told the Irish Sun: “When I got there, I met the garda and asked him what happened.
The source is literally there in the text right above you.
Go Ro :0)
You mean wag the dog moreso?!
The plot thickens.
So many questions like, where is the dog? Who shot the dog? Was there ever a dog? Does ‘blondie’ identify as a dog? Who let the dogs out? Should people call their dogs baby? And can they really sense fear?
The list is endless
Blondie – “Deny, deny”.
“senior garda” decided to accompany a pal to a mechanic who’d carried out work on a lorry. Pal didn’t want to pay. Garda pulled gun. Mechanic wedged the lorry-door open and tried to stop pal leaving with the lorry. Garda tried to close door of lorry. Mechanic grabbed Garda to stop him closing the door. Garda shot mechanic. If there was a dog, I couldn’t hear it on the video and you might expect a guard-dog to have something to say about the ruckus that was going on.
GSOC investigating. Fine.
Has the Garda been suspended or removed from frontline duty pending an investigation? Has the Garda been questioned in relation to a possible crime? Has the Garda’s firearm been seized and his access blocked to any other firearm?
I watch the video a couple of times and it does look like the mechanic could be holding a dog, granted a very quiet one, yesterday I did think it plausible that the guard shot the dog and the bullet caught him on the leg.
I think the main issue is what was the Garda doing there in the first place, he is the cause and the result of the situation getting out of hand and an example of why the Gardaí in general should not be allowed to carry any arms.
“a very quiet one”… maybe it was dead like.
The Garda went with two men to retrive a vehicle which was stolen…start getting the facts…the vehicle was part of the ‘chop shop’ busted in the area over the weekend…the buck who was shot was amongst the individuals questioned about said chop shop…
Arming the Gardai alarm bells ringing
Whether this guard was attacked by a dog or not, he was crazy reckless to fire off his gun.
It’s a good example of how they tend to make situations much more dangerous, not safer.
+1
Should he have let the dog just snack on his leg?
They draw a dog, you draw a gun. That’s the Chicago way.
Since if someone was acting unlawfully and injured a dog or anyone else in the course of that action, it probably wouldn’t matter, ethically, if the dog or the person was going for him when he injured them, the ultimate answer to these questions will depend on what was he doing there, armed, in the first place.
We also have no idea when he drew his gun, for what reason or really anything else at all
Well, exactly. If this was an official operation or an action performed in an official capacity, then I think it’s fair to say the Guards would have lead with it, because once that’s established as a fact, it’s easy enough to justify his actions despite their extremity. The fact that they haven’t suggests a murkier and dodgier reality, and no matter what, the onus is on the Guard to show that his actions are above reproach, even if you could say he was justified in the moment.
Should be worth noting that the indo is reporting that the woman drew a slash hook also. Mind you, they also say she is 8 1/2 months pregnant
Was she trying to defend her property/business/person/partner from an armed individual? Or was she attacking a legally empowered agent of the state in the course of lawfully executing his duty? (And the dog. Maybe.)
i’d consider myself a dog lover
but if an alsatian had his jaws around any part of me and i happened to be holding a gun (and knew how to use it), i’d shoot the fupper – and i wouldn’t feel too bad about it
Fair enough point, but the issue which it would appear is being glossed over, is why was he there in the first place, was he on active duty or was he waving his gun around to help out a friend.
There is a word for that and its not ‘community policing’.
Anyway, the why is important here.
yea, agree completely – even if there in official capacity, hardly appropriate to draw his gun. if things were that bad, he should have left and returned later with others. or got a court order or whatever way it’s meant to be done.
all i’m saying, though, is that you find yourself in a situation where an alsatian has your scrotum in his mouth, irrespective of the litany of errors on your part that brought things to that point, it’s reasonable enough to shoot him
https://i.imgur.com/OWWG5vA.jpg
Um, nsfw, or sf anything, really.
ha! like any of us work
‘im were worryin’ the sheep..
I wan’t making a point about injuring the dog, though that’s sad.
My objection is that using a gun made it much more likely that someone would be seriously injured or killed. The guy only getting shot in the leg was lucky.
Guy chose not to comply and tried to choke the Garda, absolutely right to defend himself in that case.
I don’t know how someone would be successful in choking another person by applying pressure to the back of an individuals neck, as happened in this case.
Defending himself isn’t the point, the point is that using a gun introduced a much greater risk to the situation.
ie. a dog attack is can lead to injury – probably only minor to moderate, especially as there were others there – definitely nobody was going to die. Bringing a gun into the situation means there’s a very real risk that someone could have been killed. The guy that got shot, and the guard got very, very lucky
Over half a millon of stolen car parts were recovered this week in Longford curiously enough. Maybe the garda wanted to check the engine wasn’t stolen ? No smoke without fire . Maybe….
Wow, that some amazing over overreaching right there congrats.
So a crime was committed in a county and some other location in the same county a mechanic was involved in a dispute over an unpaid bill where he got shot for his troubles and this is tied together how, because they were in the same county and both involved car or vans???
The injured party is a traveller so all you have to do it paint a very vague, blurry picture and peoples bias will fill in all the blanks.
Are you trying to say Ireland predidices against travellers
Surly not
The accused party is a guard so all you have to do it paint a very vague, blurry picture and peoples bias will fill in all the blanks.
I’ll accept that!! It’s only an opinion as the article here states same premises raided by armed response unit in the past.
Since there has been no indication from the Guards that the detective was acting in any sort of official capacity, I’d say probably not. This isn’t a smoking fire, it’s a smoking gun barrel.
Id it possible the gun was discharged because of low morale ?
“Members of the force [service, surely?] have been regular visitors to the home where the incident took place” says the Irish Times.
The same media-Garda loop that was exposed in the Charleton tribunal is alive and thriving in December 2018.
+ 1
Quite. The mealy mouthed language and the lack of journalistic questioning about the why of his attendance at this ‘incident’ is telling.
I’m sure Paul Reynolds and Paul ‘probably sacked from Newstalk’ Williams will be on hand with an in-depth report they were handed by the Garda Press office soon enough.
Woof justice
You’re barking up the wrong tree!
Barking mad.
Canine one come up with a decent pun or are we gonna have to paws for thought
ah come on, rotide – it’s great when BS takes a break from all the dogma, hounding and melancollie
You’re all talking shih tzu move on.
+ whining, growling and snapping at the ankles, licking of the posterior etc.
Tale wagging dog here.
Dagg, surely?
Anyway it’s just life imitating art
https://youtu.be/dQSnua3M2lo
I find it astonishing that in that video, if there was a dog there, that you can’t see or hear it at all. But at the same time yer man clearly looks like he’s holding a dog by the collar and, when the gard’s tie is pulled, it’s definitely being pulled down in a downward, dogward direction. The gard also says something along the lines of “make it let go of me…” and I’d be equally astonished if, in such a fraught moment, he was so conscious of the optics of the situation and had the forethought to invent, in a split second, the story that he was shooting at a dog so he’d be able to point to that after the fact and lessen the fallout from the incident.
Still though, a great example of how, even with video evidence, two completely contradictory stories can be told.
There was a great advert for I think the Guardian newspaper from a few decades back which shows a man running towards another man in the street and tackling him.
Initially, from one angle, it looks like assault, but then they show the other angle and he is actually saving the man from (I think) falling scaffolding.
fair point
someone on Twitter said he pulled his tie only to get him to duck his head down so he didn’t get hit by a meteorite
Points of View. Still one of the best ads ever made
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SsccRkLLzU
Alsatian? Its a German Shepard ffs. What’s this? the 1940s war time Britain sticking it to the krauts? Nice dog too, if your into that kind of thing , although frog legged and more hemophiliac than the British royal family from all the inbreeding. Look up pictures of a 1940s German Shepard to the ones today, the differences in hind legs is shocking. In another 20 years they will be even more bangley legged deformed. Pure (in)breeders and customers of these things are the stupidest people in the country.
A part of the problem is that the guard had his gun drawn for quite a while as an ornament to the scuffle, rather than having it drawn (if would seem) because he feared for his life. If he or those around were in real danger, he should have drawn his weapon to actively defend himself or those around him.
I don’t think the Gardaí are issued guns for crowd control purposes.
We don’t know what happened prior to the video – something caused him to upholster the gun.
For the duration of the video (apart from when he shoots) we can’t see the gun – it seems to be pointed down at the ground beside him. He wasn’t brandishing the gun, or using it threateningly – until his tie was pulled.
It seems to me that once the gun was drawn he should have been either arresting someone or withdrawing to a point of safety and summoning backup.
And abandon the citizen in the van who was being assaulted? No. I don’t think that would be right.
If he was there, armed, as part of the execution of his lawful duties, he would have called for backup as soon as the situation required the drawing of a firearm, if not before,in fact it seems unlikely that he would have gone there without at least one other officer or detective, but if he was there as muscle for his friend he was never going to call for backup, but allow the situation to escalate dangerously for everyone involved.
I agree that if he were there in a personal capacity there are no reasons that he should have been armed. And they should throw the book at him.
According to certain reports the incident occurred at 6.00pm, how come it was bright
or is there anomly with sunsets in Longford, what was a lone armed Guard doing there
in the first place after the previous seizures a few days earlier, these items should have
been impounded subject to further inquiries and the application of due process.
No one should have been allowed to drive away with anything or go near the place
Perhaps it might be possible to get Mr O’Keefe to get to the bottom of it and indeed
find the Dog: