For Your Consideration

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Keano, of FRO Films, writes:

Given the annual controversy surrounding “Fairytale of New York”, I imagined what the lyrics might sound like by 2020, once all problematic language is removed.

Previously: F Sharp

111 thoughts on “For Your Consideration

  1. Thor

    Looking at the lyrics what other word could of been used to rhyme with maggot in the context of the song

      1. Trinity

        We sang this in a School Christmas play way back in 1996…. (omg I’m so chronologically challenged) and at that time being a fag meant being gay of course you had to have an obligatory hoop or stud on your left earlobe too.

  2. Tom

    You’ve gone full Gemma O’Doherty on us Bodger. Working the pc gone mad angle because you can’t shout faggot as is your human right.

  3. MaryLou's ArmaLite

    There is no annual controversy over this song, this is the first and hopefully last year of it.

    1. shortforBob

      Not the first year of it by any stretch. The Pogues were asked to modify the lyrics many times before and some of us who have worked retail over Christmas cannot unhear the bowdlerized Ronan Keating version of Fairytale of New York and it was met with similar opprobrium at the time (and for many years after).

    1. Captainpants

      Nobody thinks it isn’t. The question is whether a fictional character who is supposed be a dissolute individual can use it.

      1. Nigel

        In fact there are people trying to say it isn’t, but leave that aside. Simple answer: yes, in context the usage can be justified. Which is why nobody (so far as I know) claims the song itself or the writer or the singers are homophobic. That does not change the fact that the most popular Christmas song of all time has people belting out a homophobic slur at the tops of their voices over and over again.You can’t force people not to get pissed off by that or oblge them to shut up about it when it does.

        1. Nigel

          Personally I think everyone’s forgotten the true meaning of Fairytale Of New York which is that homeless alcoholics in co-dependant relationships swing between angry violent abusive behaviour and sickening sentimentality as they try to numb the pain of shattered dreams and stave off loneliness while slowly drifting down the gutter towards an early death.

    2. rotide

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSrTnWDTdwI

      Do you think there’s anything that can be pointed out about this song?

      You will counter with context, I will counter with further context relating to hard and fast rules and we’ll both get bored, hit the mulled wine and sing the last chorus* arm in arm while cheersing bodger before falling down.

      *The first song , not the second. Although…..

      1. Nigel

        Don’t try to trick me into watching another of your unboxing videos, Ro. I mean, how many Danaerys Targaryen figures can one guy own, and how can he keep getting so excited when a new one arrives?

    3. Clampers Outside !

      Your tantrums are annual pet. I hope you get a nice marker for blacking out all the bad words for Christmas and every other time of year… where will you start, the books of the beat generation, rap lyrics, heavy metal, to name a few… you’ll be a busy bee, in fairness.

      1. Nigel

        Don’t you want to borrow the black marker to black out the words of people pointing out it’s homophobic first? Can’t have people who suffered from homophobia pointing out a word that’s homophobic harshing your buzz. Better shut them up first. They have no right to be pointing out things you don’t like.

        1. scottser

          santa doesn’t come to boys and girls who squabble. now can it, the pair of you, for the next few weeks.

          1. Spaghetti Hoop

            Lol. Declare a Christmas Truce! For these two AND Barnabas and Cromwell. Complete with ball made from a beef-tin and exchange of chocolate, cigarettes and sweetheart photos (most likely of each other).

          2. millie st murderlark

            Agreed Hoopie! Cheer and merriment to all. The Christmas tree is up and the cases of wine have begun to arrive. All that’s left is a rousing game of trivial pursuit.

          3. Clampers Outside !

            Suuuuuure you have.

            In fairness, I have enjoyed poking holes in your regressive nonsense and total, and intentional from what I can see, misunderstanding of song lyrics today. It’s been fun!

          4. Nigel

            I’ve ignored you – that’s me being nice. Your ‘hole-poking’ is like watching a child put chewing gum in their hair and claiming to be a brilliant hairdresser.

          1. Nigel

            accuse others of what you’re accusing others of accusing others of what you’re doing accusing others of others accusing of you doing what you are doing of accusing others of doing accusing

  4. Clampers Outside !

    Here’s a bandwagon for you Nigel. Have a go at Band Aid :)
    It’s all the rage.. I mean, it’s all the outrage !

    https://twitter.com/Jessicae13Eaton/status/1071467096117252098?s=03

    ” Band aid lyrics: ‘Tonight thank God it’s them, instead of you.’ Really really really annoys me. Stinks of privilege. Religious or not, none of us should ‘thank’ anything that someone else is suffering instead of us. So twisted. ”

    WOOOOOOOOOOSSSHHHH !

    Too bloody dim …morons.

    1. Nigel

      How dare they. Yell at them, call them names, make loud noise SHUT THEM UP CLAMPERS BEFORE YOU FIND YOURSELF AWARE OF POINTS OF VIEW YOU DON”T LIKE

      1. Clampers Outside !

        You’re the one shouting pet :0p’

        Anyway, it’s not a point of view I dont like.

        It’s a complete and utter misinterpretation of the meaning. In other words, as I said, too bloody dim.

          1. Clampers Outside !

            It is a total and complete misunderstanding of the line in the song ya muppet. You too must be just too bloody dim because of all the religious zeal you follow this nonsense with.

            Grow up, think for yourself, ya child.

          2. Nigel

            I’m sorry you lack the ability to empathise with others in such a way that you might understand how incredibly tone-deaf that line can seem.

          3. Clampers Outside !

            So, art should curb it’s creativity for those who cannot understand it.

            Right, yep, you sure are going down the regressive Left hole of lowest common denominator. That’s really sad.

          4. Nigel

            It’s art, you can’t police how people respond to it or enforce the singular interpretation that you favour. You can attack people who respond negatively with accusations of stupidity, but that in itself is a reactionary response.

          5. Clampers Outside !

            Sorry, no.

            Not all art is open to multiple interpretations. Some have specific meaning and intention, as that line in the song does. The authors themselves have already explained that.

            But, you go on rambling with your postmodernist type ‘all interpretations are equal’ bullpoo, if ya want. Like I said, too dim.

          6. Nigel

            All art is subject to multiple interpretations, in a case like this the intentions of the artists are so utterly disconnected from how the line sounds that they illustrate severe limitations in the artist’s ability to communicate effectively. This is not unusual or uncommon, and many popular songs age poorly in this way. Again, I note, for all your accusations of dystopian PC censorship, you are trying to rigidly enforce a narrow interpretation of or response to the line.

          7. Clampers Outside !

            Balderdash, claptrap and poppycock.

            Cop on to yourself lass.
            You don’t sound smart writing that, you sound foolish and intentionally ignorant, for want of having a last word, or some other ego driven bullpoo motivation.

            Grow up.

          8. Nigel

            An argument about artistic interpretation involves the language of artistic interpretation. I can’t help it if you’re too much of a brave anti-intellectual to muster anything beyond balderdash, claptrap and poppycock.

          9. SOQ

            @ Clampers, it doesn’t matter to people like me, people who have had the word spat at us like dogs, what the integrity or motivation of the artist was. It was, is and probably always be, associated with homophobia.

            Please don’t try and tell me how I should feel when I hear that word. You are not gay. You have no idea. Blocking offensive words in songs is nothing new, it’s just that enough people have stood up and said no to hearing this particular one .

          10. Clampers Outside!

            It wouldn’t be a charade if they didn’t.

            Let’s just say the veil slipped some time ago with a telling response to one avatar, made with another handle.

            I got accused of all sorts last time I brought this up, and I think it gave BS admins a headache with all the deletions, and eventual shut down of an entire post in the aftermath. I’ll say no more on it.

          11. Nigel

            But he didn’t doxx me! Not sure I’d care if he did. I’m not even sure what he’s talking about. I got narky about him lying about me constantly and he apologised, more than once I might add, and I asked him not to reply to me anymore. I can’t call this a lie, it’s just wrong, but how could I prove it and why should I bother? One time he did get banned for posting nasty transphobic stuff, I think, but who knows?

          12. Clampers Outside !

            J’accuse! :0)

            Ah stop now, Starina. I stopped because the hysterics of that night were enough for a week of commentary and sure I had other real life stuff to get on with. There was no ban at all at all, ’twas all completely voluntary on my part :)

            And to be fair, no one was doxxed. I simply answered a direct question.

          13. Clampers Outside !

            @Nigel…. J’accuse! :)

            I’ve never been banned from Broadsheet. And I’ve written nothing transphobic, but I have written stuff that you repeatedly misinterpret. But that is your stock and trade, so… whatever pet.

          14. Clampers Outside !

            No. Figure it out yourself. After the tirade of abuse you dished out that night, you can do your own donkey work.

            (Obviously the slip happened before that night, the rest is up to you)

          15. Nigel

            But I have no idea where to begin! Tirade of abuse? Isn’t that just another way of saying a Clampers and Nigel row? If you can’t you can’t but if you’re refusing then I’ll have to start treating this as another lie you’ve decided to tell for reasons best known to yourself. It’s the reason for the season.THE SEASON OF LIES.

    2. Spaghetti Hoop

      What shocks me ANNUALLY is the guff and sheer inconsideration of the law, animal welfare, hygiene or the neighbouring community that fella had in sending 184 birds to his mot over the space of twelve days. Should be locked up.

    1. Clampers Outside !

      Don’t worry, the government will provide them with ‘safe spaces’ until adult hood, and after that, when they can’t handle the real world they’ll just pump them full of antidepressants until they wont care any more.

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        Did it ever occur to people that snowflakes exist because of the way their parents raised them? If the idiots whingeing about snowflakery had done a better job raising their little darlings, situations like this wouldn’t arise.

        1. Nigel

          Or perhaps it’s not a ‘fault’ but a generational shift in attitudes that some people in the older generation struggle to understand or even tolerate.

          1. Clampers Outside!

            An unhealthy shift towards censorship and a nanny state? Sounds right up your regressive leftist authoritarian street pet.

            Have a merry Christmas all the same.

            Knowing how you have some wide of the intention interpretations of words, allow me to clarify. I’m not suggesting you drink alcohol, god forbid, but just suggesting you try enjoy yourself with all the offensive Christmas music on air.

          2. Nigel

            Criticising single words and single lines in Christmas songs, actually just daring to react negatively to them out loud, is censorship and nanny state authoritarianism? You realise you’re being hysterical about this, right? ironically, or not, a cynical and hysterical reaction that’s designed to shut people up.

          3. Clampers Outside!

            Cynical? Nah, I understand that you are sincere in your protestation. As for hysterical, nah… calm as a dry leaf in a zephyr me :)

          4. SOQ

            @ Clampers, Flirty years ago it was acceptable to use the ‘N’ word about black people and the ‘B’ word about people from unmarried parents but times change and language evolves.

            I’ll think of you next time a homophobic retard shout the words ‘you cheap lousy faggot’ into my face at a Christmas party because he knows he wouldn’t get away with it at any other time.

            That is the real world gay men face, so take your ‘regressive leftist authoritarianism” and shove it.

          5. Clampers Outside!

            For the record, I have no issue with the bleeping of a word out of a song, but outright banning from airplay and censorship, as has been suggested in some reports, is ridiculous.

          6. millie st murderlark

            I think your first point about language evolving sums up everything this entire argument is about. Whereas once the word was seen as commonplace, acceptable even, now it is not, and we can either choose to address it or not.

            I think the furore surrounding the song is a bit much and is more a comment on wider socio-cultural issues as opposed to the song itself, but I’m not a homosexual and I’ve never had that word thrown at me like a slur, so I don’t know that I’m really the best person to make an informed comment, aside from being glib. Apologies if they offended, btw, they certainly weren’t meant in a malicious spirit.

            Really well said, SOQ. Your comment really made me stop and think.

    1. Nigel

      I agree. It should it entirely uncontroversial to point that the word is homophobic without a million insecure weirdos going out of their heads and screaming about PC GONE MAD.

    2. Medium Sized C

      I’ve been seeing people discussing and arguing about the use of the word in this song for a week or so now.
      Which is controversy.
      Its literally what controversy means.

      1. millie st murderlark

        I am holding my apron aloft in a scadalised manner.

        So it must indeed be a controversy. Travesty even.

    3. Junkface

      Yes I agree. The whole thing is ridiculous. And I remember gay friends at college Christmas parties singing away to this having the craic. Never did it seem like they were offended by the lyrics, or gave them a second thought, because it was an in character drunken slagging match between two characters within the song.

      Whitewashing history and culture is the dumbest trend of the last 15 years. And I really hate all of their terminolgy for this guff. Thanks America, you can have a swift kick in the nuts.

  5. millie st murderlark

    I also want it noted that a faggot is another word for kindling, or a short stick of dried wood used to light a fire.

    That’s been bugging me for a while now.

    1. rotide

      Oh stop being so niggardly Millie, you’ve come across quite queer. Time to retard this behaviour, have some gammon and be happy and gay again.

    2. Nigel

      Haha nice try ro.

      (A comment got deleted, in case anyone is wondering. It wasn’t racist, it was homophonic.)

  6. Heuristic mystic

    Re- faggot
    Furze/whinns/gorse, a taxable product in the 18hundrets Ulex to you
    Used in bakeries for their high calorific qualities, brought ovens up to temp very quickly in time for market and breakfast

    1. shortforBob

      … and if it has woodlice on it that makes it a lousy faggot

      not that anyone actually believes that a bundle of wood was the intended meaning.

      I’d say people were being hysterical but that word is politically incorrect now too.

  7. Clampers Outside !

    Oh Baby, it’s Cold Outside …original Dean Martin lyrics here: https://genius.com/Dean-martin-baby-its-cold-outside-lyrics

    And a new version…

    Oh Baby, It’s Clampers Outside

    I really can’t stay (but baby, it’s Clampers Outside)
    I’ve got to go away (but baby, it’s Clampers Outside)

    This evening has been (been hoping that you’d clamp in)
    So very nice (I do have wheel-bands, just the right size)

    My motor starts so spluttery (beautiful what’s your hurry?)
    My flathead will be racing the floor (listen to the Firestone roar)

    So really I’d better scurry (beautiful please don’t hurry)
    But maybe just a half gallon more (put some fuel in, I’ll pour)

    What Nigel might think (I’d say, “baby, it’s cad out there”)
    Say what’s in this tank? (Circle K will get us there)

    I wish I knew how (your tires are pumped right now)
    To break this swell (i’ll ease your tire pressure as well)

    I ought to say, no, no, no sir (mind if I clamp in closer?)
    At least I’m gonna say that’s my best tire (did I chafe your Michelin side?)

    I really can’t stay (oh baby don’t hold out)
    But baby, it’s Clampers Outside

    I simply must go (but baby, it’s Clampers Outside)
    The answer is no (but baby, it’s Clampers Outside)

    Your clampin’ has been (how lucky that you clamped in)
    So nice and warm (look at my yellow, it’s like dawn)

    Starina will be suspicious (gosh her tire grips look judicious)
    Brother Barnabas will be at the door (waves upon the comment floor)

    Millie’s mind is vicious (gosh Bertie’s lines are lubricious)
    But maybe just a cigarette more (Millie’s smoking avatar’s ‘phwoah’!)

    I’ve gotta get home (but baby, anti-freeze’s what you need)
    Say lend me a coat (is it the car keys that you seek)

    You’ve really been grand (I thrill when you touch my clamp)
    But don’t you see? (how can you do this thing to me?)

    There’s boundaries to be taught (thick tires? ‘rar’ so taut)
    At least there will be plenty implied (if you don’t get real meaning aside)

    I really can’t stay (It’s too cold to walk)
    Baby, it’s Clampers
    Baby, it’s Clampers Outside

  8. FRO Films

    WOW. Over a hundred comments in its first 12 hours.
    I had no idea I would be throwing a virtual grenade into the Broadsheet universe with this one.
    Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to the debate, shared the video and subscribed to @FRO Films.

    Go raibh maith agaibh,
    FRO.
    Stay Free. Stay Radical. Stay in Orbtt.

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