Resent Thy Neighbour

at

Oh.

Warm-hearted, curtain-twitching coverage in the Irish Times (top) and the Irish Independent of the aftermath of the attempted eviction of a farmer and two siblings from their home in Strokestown, County Roscommon.

Good times.

Last Night: “The Family Has Returned Home”

117 thoughts on “Resent Thy Neighbour

  1. Broadbag

    ”the attempted repossession of a farmer and two siblings from their home”

    I think that needs another look, eviction instead of repossession?

    Warm-hearted or cold-hearted, I think we need a lot more facts on this case, so much hearsay on Facebook, the prevailing narrative that evictions are always unfair and ‘sure didn’t we bail out the banks, so why should we ever repay a loan’ needs to change, if people want to be able to access loans from the big bad banks in the future.

  2. Tom

    So we have a garda with multiple properties and land. A history of tax dodging and judgements against him from suppliers and lenders. Refuses to abide by a court order.

    Yet he is somehow the hero in this story? The sort of narrative been pushed by broadsheet and on Facebook will see someone killed.

        1. Rep

          By the same rational, you and Bodger seem to be jumping to the defence of someone, according to the papers, with a history of tax dodging and judgements against him from suppliers and lenders and who refuses to abide by a court order.

          1. dav

            Well in fairness, I would prefer to have the Billions back that taxpayers gave the banks, but you must be right, pit the banks, those poor innocent creatures..

          2. Rep

            Never said anything about the banks, just used your own false argument against you. Pity the tax dodgers I guess.

      1. rotide

        Bodger, I’m trying not to sound demanding or invasive, but if the farmer in question is a family friend, could broadsheet not publish something with a few actual verified facts which are in short supply around this issue.

        The media don’t seem to have much in the way of information and the info that comes from places like facebook isn’t the most reliable. Even in the space of 3 posts about this incident, I’ve seen commenters confuse details from the eviction and subsequent attack on sunday and these juxtaposed details have gone on to become concrete ‘fact’.

        Would be a good scoop for BS to provide solid information on this

    1. Friscondo

      The difference is the violence used by alleged ex crown forces/Loyalist paramilitaries in enforcing an eviction on this island. Never will be accepted. The eviction turned into a complete fiasco. Hiring mercenary thugs from the north is crossing a red line.

      1. Mickey Twopints

        Now Friscondo, we were advised yesterday that the group of gentlemen in question were just a travelling dancing troupe, and that their black army boots and matching black uniforms were just their performing costumes.

        1. A Person

          So lets not pay the debts you own. Let the neighbour, the taxpayer, the hard working person pick them up, whilst I “the good country person”, pay back nothing. How can anyone with VAT debts of 177k claim to be a victim?

          1. Nigel

            No we only do that with banks and bondholders. Of course we probably should have donned balaclavas and rioted back then when it might have made a difference, now we’re just eating our own.

      2. newsjustin

        Didn’t the O’Donnell’s exhaust their legal challenges and walk out of the property? How would you gain possession of your property if someone was refusing to leave.

        I do agree that a worrying aspect of this and the recent case in Dublin of using unidentifiable, maybe un-licencesed(?) security in these operations needs to be looked at.

      3. ollie

        So its not ok for the Sheriff to hire people living in Ni but it’s ok for everyone else? Hyprocisy at it’s finestthere there Friscondo

    2. Martco

      farm scenario, its a business + family home wrapped up in one, three generations deep, tricky

      its a good question, repossession of farms is an especially contentious business….farming finance is a different planet to property in Dublin….think “The Field” and you’re in the territory

      whilst I don’t know the case in detail I have noticed the massive imbalance of how this story is being handled in the press and RTE

      amazing isn’t it that these journalists are all talking about this families detailed financial arrangements but nobody, not one to date that I can see are seemingly bothered to get into the detail of WHO THIS PRIVATE “SECURITY” COMPANY ARE, what licence they hold to operate in Ireland?!? from what I can see it’s a bunch of lads who’ve decided to rock up to take part in a repossession, (as I wrote in a post earlier in the week, if I want to put cctv up outside my premises I have to use a PSA licenced company…)

      IT and Indo are property porn comics so you can guess

      it’s all very sad

        1. Rep

          Are they court appointed? I find it hard to believe that a court would appoint some private security company from outside their jurisdiction to do this.

        2. Martco

          :) ah. I can relax now in the knowledge that they are, apparently, court appointed.
          maybe one of the journalists involved in writing these stories could look into that aspect and report on the details. and sure the courts are never wrong, are they @ollie?

    3. Col

      I heard them described as “decent country people” by their TD. So I suppose their better than wealthy Dublin elite or something.

  3. Pat-the-barker

    For balance, others with unpaid debts stretching back decades:

    Paddy Kelly
    Paddy Shovlin
    Michael O’Flynn
    Gerry Gannon
    Joe O’Reilly
    Sean Mulryan
    Ray Grehan

    1. newsjustin

      I don’t know most of those names but did a quick Google and they (at least the ones I checked) seemed to have come to some accommodation with their bank….ie NAMA.

      Yes, the old adage is true, if you owe the bank €100K it’s your problem, if you owe the bank €100M it’s their problem. They’ll seek to get as much as they can, the best way they can, when it suits them. Read your terms and conditions.

    2. Johnny

      Denis O’Brien and Digicel have defaulted on billions of bonds,the rating agencies view his current mess as a default.You never read about his golf course in Portugal,scant mention of his super new jet,who’s paying for that the bondholders he defaulted on,the sudden and dramatic pull back from many charitable/promotional things,like the FAI.
      On the street in NY he’s know as deadbeat Denis,he’s a lot closer to this farmer from the perspective of his creditors/bondholders who have lost hundreds of million buying his bonds,than the Irish MSM lead you to believe.
      Its astounding given the amount defaulted debt still in Ireland,that this situation was targeted. Its almost like FG was trying stir up its base, send a message,this was not some clerical oversight or error.

        1. johnny

          Wheels up….bondholders who supported Dennis are in the hole for hundreds of millions, its no surprise that the ‘leaked’ propaganda in todays papers, is attempt by Digi to spin the news that bondholders,are insisting on restricting future payments to affilated companies like Island Capital (who paid the INM spooks)-thats a FU by the bondholders,DOB is already NOT allowed pay himself any more dividends.

          “Gulfstream G650 ER M-YGIG (Denis O’Brien new $70 million corporate jet) landing today (7-May-2018) at Manises Valencia Airport (VLC) runway 12”

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oUvjKOR_s0

  4. Eoin

    It’s quite amazing that three days into this story, we’re still not 100% certain who obtained the court order to evict the occupants last Tuesday. It looks like it was US vulture Cabot. It looks like Cabot bought the loan from KBC in 2017 and then obtained a judgement in a Circuit court at the start of 2018. If that is right, why is KBC allowing the confusion to hang in the air, hiding behind a “we don’t comment on individual cases”, if KBC sold the loan and washed its hands of it, why not admit that?

    Cabot has sued 100s (literally) of people, presumably borrowers, in the courts in 2018. There’s a whole litigation industry going on with Tallaght-based Cabot and a Tallaght firm of solicitors. In the US, Cabot and its parent company have a great reputation amongst banks for pursuing debts, but not such a great reputation with borrowers.

    How many heavy-handed evictions like the one caught on camera last Tuesday in Roscommon are going on below the radar?

    Mind you, neither the Irish Times or Irish Independent or RTE is going to shine a light on that aspect of the story, are they?

    PS, nice to see Colm Keena in the Irish Times has corrected his original copy to remove reference to “portfolios of land”, it’s now “folios of land”. Shure the occupants of that house must be minting it, they probably had a specialist painter give their window frames that distressed peeling-paint look, it’s all the rage with fat cats.

    1. ollie

      The eviction was legal, carried out by Court Appointed People. If someone won’t leave voluntarily, they can be forcibly removed legally.
      There were 3 people living in this house, 2 are 100% innocent and 1 (the property owner) owes the bank, so the house was repossessed.

      1. Martco

        that’s grand so.
        who are the “Court Appointed People” can I look them up on CRO search? what is their PSA licence number @ollie?

          1. Cian

            They don’t need a PSA licence.
            The PSA have confirmed this.

            However, once the eviction was done and the guys stayed on guarding it – then they were acting as security guards. At that stage they should have been PSA licenced. The PSA are investigating this breech.

        1. Rep

          The sheriff is court appointed. Ollie is trying to muddy the waters by implying that the court appointed the lads when it didn’t.

          1. anne

            Of course not. Rambo & crew were privately contracted.

            The call went out from Rambo – “Name yer price lads. Only a small bit of a battering involved. I’ll write ye an IOU.”

    2. Fact Checker

      It would be really great if the Courts Service had a website where the details of judgements like this could be looked up by anyone with a dial-up connection.

      That and some reform of our defamation laws which make mainstream media very shy to name names and use hard facts, so all sorts of rumour and innuendo flies around on social media.

      1. gorugeen@gmail.com

        Why? What business of yours is a court judgement against someone you have no dealings with?

    1. anne

      I don’t know about that. there was one mention of a debt of 18k, otherwise it was VAT. And it was settled.

      Vat returns work as follows – You invoice those who own you money, including VAT that you collect on behalf of revenue. That’s your VAT receivables. The VAT you’ve paid on your purchases is offset what you’ve collected, that’s a VAT return basically. You want to balance out what you’ve collected with what you’ve paid out so you don’t owe anymore to revenue, as it’s payable at the end of the year…but you’ve received your payments throughout the year..i.e. the money could be spent.

      Revenue audited him & found he had underpaid in his VAT returns by 170k. I take it an accountant would submit his VAT returns.

      Anyway they tacked on another amount in penalties & interest & came to a settlement with him – i.e. he agreed to pay that amount. It was upped to about 400k with their penalties.

      Think of it this way, you submit a P21 balancing statement, revenue find you’ve underpaid PAYE, if its a large amount you will try get them to take it off you over a few years. Like a settlement.

      If they owe you money, they don’t return it unless you go looking for it, you have a limited time to look for it,otherwise it’s theirs forever. If they owe you money you don’t get interest & penalties.

      By the way there is 100s of millions in tax unclaimed. Revenue know this.

      This has sweet f all to do with this eviction.

      1. ollie

        There’s a few mistakes in what you have said Anne:
        VAT returns are completed regularlity throughout the year, monthly or quarterly. PAymenst are due at the same frequency.
        This is not the fault of an accountant, he just submits what he is given.

        Revenue audited this man, they obviously believed there was an issue. Audits are usually carried out where previous issues have arisen or where payments or returnes are made late.

        If they owe you money, they don’t return it unless you go looking for it, you have a limited time to look for it,otherwise it’s theirs forever. If they owe you money you don’t get interest & penalties.

        By the way there is 100s of millions in tax unclaimed. Revenue know this.
        So what?

        Man doesn’t pay debts, loses house, actually loses several properties. Nasty, but fair.

        1. Fact Checker

          It is quite difficult (if technically possible) to underpay VAT by €170k.

          €170k of VAT (say at the 13.5% rate) represents gross sales of €1.3m.

          It is very hard to have that kind of turnover going through your books and not realise that VAT is due on it.

          1. Fact Checker

            Okay

            It is still difficult to have €100k in turnover a year for thirteen years and not notice that there is VAT due on it.

            Think of VAT as a tax you collect on behalf of Revenue, which you then remit to them in arrears.

            It is a bit different from income tax, which is legally your income, of which you are obliged to forfeit a share.

          2. Mickey Twopints

            I have a grasp of how the VAT system works, thanks. The available figures suggest a substantial interest penalty which implies that the VAT underdeclaration/overclaim was a long-term issue when it came to the attention of Revenue, as does the reported penalty of 100% of the VAT due. As Anne has pointed out repeatedly for the hard of thinking, the fact that this is a *settlement* means that the taxpayer *has paid up*.

            edit to add:

            The VAT liability does not necessarily arise out of any wilful evasion by the taxpayer. It can also arise due to differences in interpretation of the rules. Accountants are not infallible.

          3. Fact Checker

            Maybe.

            But it looks like a very large ‘interpretation gap’ for an agricultural contractor/farmer in an area without much viable agriculture.

            I have not referred at all to the interest and penalties, just the original underdeclaration.

          4. Mickey Twopints

            What information do you have as to the business activities which gave rise to this VAT liability?

          5. Fact Checker

            I don’t.

            He’s described in the Revenue defaulters list as a ‘farmer’ though.

            Judging by this, and the appearance of his premises, I would guess he made his living from agriculture and related activities.

            But if you have better information please share.

          6. Mickey Twopints

            So no relevant facts to support your position then? That’s unfortunate.

            No, I don’t claim to have any relevant information, but then I’m also not fabricating scenarios to suit my prejudices.

          7. Fact Checker

            Several relevant facts, and an interpretation.

            If a credible source discovers that he underdeclared VAT while selling Beanie Boos from his barn in North Roscommon, I will change my mind.

        2. anne

          You’re right every 2 months. There is also a lot of VAT farmers can claim back.. hopefully he had a reasonably good accountant. Lots of people are late with payments. Lots of people get audited.

          Use quotation marks will you?
          “so”? I’ll spell it out for you… owing money is something that revenue are well familiar with. It’s being used to tarnish this man though..

          That’s how the world goes around.. owing money in one form or another. If people are going to pay back what they owe & making genuine efforts, the likes of these vultures should be made work with them rather than trying to swoop in & get the lot.

          And the thickos with the analogy of “have you ever lent anyone money & not gotten back”..I don’t get to take anyone’s house off them for missed payments.

          1. A Person

            So lets not pay the debts you own. Let the neighbour, the taxpayer, the hard working person pick them up, whilst I “the good country person”, pay back nothing. How can anyone with VAT debts of 177k claim to be a victim?

          2. anne

            He was trying to come to an arrangement to pay a 1000 a month..but the Vulture wanted the lot. Where are you reading he didn’t want to pay his debts?

            We only pay back the debts of banks..not regular people.

          3. A Person

            You are talking nonsense. If you make money you pay VAT. If you don’t pay it you are stealing from your neighbour, the money required to pay for services – teachers, Guards etc. Pay you’re debts or face the consequences. This side issue about where the evictors are from is total crap. But lets justify burning out at least 5 cars, and beating the poo out of people as being ok, just because of our history. Grow up.

        1. anne

          Interesting. Who pays the penalties for the Co.Council I wonder? Do they ask the state to provide the funding for missing the VAT payment to the state.

  5. Rob_G

    Warm-hearted, curtain-twitching coverage in…”

    I think maybe you meant to type ‘accurate’, or perhaps ‘supported by publicly-available court documents, and not some old guff about UVF paramilitaries’, Bodger.

      1. anne

        Shur all you’re reading about from mainstream outlets is about the man having a farm & owing VAT.

        Like he deserved Rambo dragging him out of his house by the scruff of the neck.

    1. Mickey Twopints

      If that story has any credibility then it would go a long way to explaining why KBC and Cabot are keeping very quiet.

      1. anne

        It has credibility. Rambo – Ian Gordon – was caught on camera.

        Of course they want nothing to do with it. They’re “respectable” banks. They just sell on debt to eachother… the next bank just sweat the debt & call in the asset…. these people missed payments, tough luck innit.

  6. Dr.Fart MD

    gas. the amount of people commenting here sayin the broadsheet commenter reaction is being sympathetic to the evicted people, far outweigh the comments actually being sympathetic to the evicted people. you’re all dirt. honestly have never come across a bunch who show an absolute lack of empathy so consistantly.

  7. Gerry

    Could have taken the land and let the people live out their days in the house
    Utter stupidity evicting people from a house in Ireland given our history

  8. harry

    This one has been a little tricky to understand as, leaving aside the manner and optics of the eviction, how would an individual who has bad loans all over the place, a number of properties, and had enough turnover to generate the VAT billiards described generate such support at a local level?

    it is not usually the case, people tend to be very happy to support those who seem hard done by but less likely to go out on a limb for someone who might be seen to be a bit of a chancer, even if they do sympathise.

    My understanding is that in this case the brother who had all the debt and properties convinced his brother and sister, who wouldn’t be overburdoned with financial savvy and whom lived in the family home, to provide collateral for his borrowing against the family home and land.

    That is why locals were willing to go out and try to prevent the eviction, as the brother and sister were hard done by.

    Just a little context to help explain some of the behaviours. it took on a new life and attracted new people once the security were seen to be nordies of course

    1. Freddie

      I guess the moral of the story is don’t allow your home to be used as collateral in financial deals when you’re not overburdened with financial savy?

        1. Fact Checker

          That useful and interesting context Harry.

          We’re deep in the realm of speculation, but if the siblings provided guarantees under duress, there could be some legal options available to them.

          It’s a shame if they have been left homeless through no fault of their own.

          1. Freddie

            You don’t consider allowing your assets be used as collateral in deals you don’t understand to be something a person should bear responsibility for?

          2. Fact Checker

            I do.

            The concept of duress and limited mental capacity, respectively, exist.

            I have no idea if these are relevant in this case.

          3. Giggidygoo

            Can’t anyone who owns a business add anyone to their business as ‘Director’? And they can do it unknown to the person added? May or may not have been the case here, but it can be done.

    1. Rep

      I remember that Grand Designs. One of the lads here is that chancer?

      He had terrible taste if I remember correctly.

  9. gringo

    The moral of the story is that the banks and the vulture funds are a low form of vermin, and any business you do with them should come with a health warning. The banks were recently caught out while engaging in thievery from customers with tracker mortgages, although I have not heard of any banker being charged with theft.I have no doubt they are engaged in some other form of thievery as we speak.

  10. Dub Spot

    Show some empathy.

    You’ll never live like Roscommon people
    You’ll never do what Roscommon people do
    You’ll never fail like Roscommon people
    You’ll never watch your life slide out of view

    #takebackthecity

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