…what mistakes…a Republican president who looks a shoo-in for a second term…the Democrats snatched defeat from the jaws of certain victory last time by ignoring the democratic will of their own supporters and look set to do the same this time round…
dav
so it’s the will of the people to ignore medical advice and open the country back up again??
…in an electoral democracy the people elect a government to carry out their wishes…the only country that I can think of where a government is making life or death decisions but has recently been voted out of office is Ireland…
Cian
bisted – If FG were voted out of office – who was voted into office? And why aren’t they stepping up and trying to lead?
It’s funny that when the job entailed going to USA for St Patricks day and having a surplus of €5bn there were lots of interested parties…. but now when it is “life and death” decisions and a €5bn deficit: [tumbleweed].
And I’m sure Varadkar and the various Ministers would much prefer that someone else was in charge.
…Cian…seems we agree that the electorate rejected the standing government at the last election but they are still making the decisions…I agree that the constitution provides for this but to have the like of Regina Doherty still in a position of power and in such an important portfolio is a failure of leadership…
Cian
I didn’t agree with you. And you didn’t answer my question.
…ah Cian…and there was me thinking that we finally agreed on something…anyway…strictly speaking you are correct. The FFers had the most seats and they promised their voters that they would not go into government with the shinners. The shinners had the next most seats but didn’t field enough candidates to maximise the vote they received…a serious error of judgement and makes you wonder if they are serious about forming a government. FG finished in third place and definitely won’t talk to the shinners but will talk to FF…so…to answer your question…colour me obvious but some kind of arrangement between FF and FG seems to be what the majority voted for…in the national interest, of course…
:-Joe
Bernie Sanders, unfortunately, had even less chance of winning than that treacherous piece of scum moulded in kissengers image, hillary clinton. Only by about 5 percent though.
If you look up Prof Helmut Northup and his “The Primary Model” system and website…
… & also Prof. Alan Lichtman and his “Keys to the White House” system of election data modelling and analysis.. you can see the various technical and historical reasons why.
So, basically it’s Trumps to lose, most likely he first needs the economy to tank badly and maybe the Corona/covid19 virus could cause something unpredictable but that still does not guarantee anyone can beat him.
Trump. at the moment, has a 91- 95% chance of being re-elected.
Sadly, a failing empire with a surveillance state run corporate oligarchy is not ready for even a return to “New Deal” style common sense centre ground policies or a move towards western European social democracy.
He has won far more and in many more ways than he was expected to in terms of inspiring and accelerating new ideas in the heavily corrupted and corrosive or regressive mainstream discourse.
It shows you how corrupt it is when the elections can be accurately predicted over six months in advance by multiple experts.
The ‘murica political system is completely f***ed, thanks to all the lobbyists and lawyers on behalf of corporations and bankers/wall st…. It’ll probably be another decade before enough momentum builds for it to return to “New Deal” policies.
Haha.. ye and it’s not even the half of it…
– badly written off the top of my head…
:-J
Formerly known as @ireland.com
Logic says that if the economy tanks and thousands die of a virus he called a hoax, he should lose bigly. However, it is America and their education system seems to be as bad as their health system.
:-Joe
Ye, the corrupt economy is being bailed out again as usual as we type. Drumpf can’t do it fast enough so he won’t lose votes…
– The corrupt(and technically illegal) fed print more debt(dollars)
– Continue the quantative easing transfer of even more of the public taxes/wealth/assets to private interests
– Fuel the artificially inflated and rigged wall st. / banking class and the (pseudo)free market even more.
Socialism for the corrupt elite minority & Austerity for the people.
:-J
Nigel
Hard not to be inspired by this type of passivity, complascency and amoral lack of judgement.
Matt Pilates
Greta pushing her luck.
Praetorian.
…she’s loosing the limelight to this…there’s a bang of ‘if you have it,i have it’ off her….sad…hopefully people will realise she’s not as relevant as her parents think she should be…$$$€€€£££.
Janet, I ate my avatar
nothing like a global pandemic to bring out the nicer side of human nature….massive eye roll
Rosette of Sirius
What? She forced the DM to publish her tweet and photo?!
dav
old white males will be happy with that news
Andrew
It’s bizarre in this country that people are more concerned with what Trump or Boris are up to rather than the failings of our own government and public service. The traditional media is playing its usual role of half-hearted questioning but essentially being ‘onside’ while doing a bit of Boris and Trump bashing when they can.
Jingoistic is what best describes our media landscape now.
Nio real change for many workers this morning whose employers will still force them to come in to work. Varadkar still vague and weasly in this whole area.
GiggidyGoo
Holohan/Harris is ‘tightening’ the criteria for testing to ‘Fever and a cough or shortness of breath’
But Claire Byrne didn’t have a temperature at any stage, she tells us – from the RTE website:
‘She said she had been displaying symptoms of what she assumed was a head cold or chest infection and she said she had no temperature at any stage.
Ms Byrne described to viewers that she was tested for the coronavirus at a Health Service Executive facility, where a nurse used a swab to take a sample from her throat and nasal passage.’
a) Why would Holohan/Harris exclude someone who has everything but the fever from having the test?
or
b) Did Claire Byrne have a special dose of it, without the fever?
Cian
Possibly because when circumstances change different decisions are made?
millie aka oprah
I imagine that the fever/shortness of breath are the more dangerous or severe of the symptoms. Most people aren’t made so ill by the virus that they require hospital admittance, and I would surmise that those people who do require hospital care are the priority.
If everyone follows the social distancing requirements and behaves as though they are a carrier for the virus where showing symptoms of say, a common head cold, then it takes stress off our healthcare workers and off the testing centres so that they can be used to maximum effect.
Janet, I ate my avatar
exactly, ( but we will have none of that level headed rationale around here Madame)
now back to outrage, drama and panic
GiggidyGoo
Millie – And then square that interpretation with Simon Harris ‘”We need to test as many people as we can” Health Minister Simon Harris discusses testing for Covid 19, and how the government plans to prioritise people who need to be tested.
What I’m reading into the “as many people as we can” is that there isn’t enough testing kits, and find that a rational conclusion to make (Janet?)
ReproBertie
Over 90% of those tested are returning negative results. With the worldwide demand for testing kits it makes sense to prioritise those who need testing. 60,000 test kits are being distributed and there are another 100,000 on the way from China according to the HSE.
millie aka oprah
I think it’s a case of a limited amount of resources – not just the tests, but in our healthcare system across the board, including people (our healthcare staff are not machines, after all), and managing them as best as possible. If there is a further influx of infection, for example, as seen in Italy and Spain, then they need to be prepared across the board for that possibility.
So yes, while they want to test as many people as possible, as per Harris’ words, there are practicalities and the welfare of those on the front line to observe as well.
At least, that’s my own reading of it.
Cian
If he said “test everyone” – I would assume that there are 5 million test kits and enough labs to process 5 million tests.
But he said “as many people as we can” – so yes, there are some limits. The limit is (one or more of):
– test kits;
– capacity of laboratories to process tests;
– the implementation process (I.e. get kits to trained staff; get infected people to testing locations; do the tests; get the completed kits back to laboratories, get result back to people.)
And yes, there needs to be a prioritisation of who to test. Someone that is comfortable and happily self-isolating at home should be a lower priority than say a nurse that has symptoms and needs to know if he can go to work or if that is putting others at risk.
class wario
I’m not sure I like the idea of tightening the criteria. Widespread testing seems to be the big thing in places like S. Korea where they got a handle on the virus very quickly. Focusing on people already in hospital seems like a move towards the much criticised UK approach to testing.
dav
Simply they do not have the means to make there target numbers for testing. It is now 4-5 day delay between your doctor referring you for a test and you presenting yourself to get the swab taken.
Andrew
You can say you are following the South Korea model all you like, but the fact is we are not. We may aspire to follow it, but that’s about it, aspiration. The delay in just getting a test and the subsequent delay in getting a result render a lot of the rhetoric and grand claims meaningless.
But forget about that, let’s pretend we’re the best little country in the world and sneer at Boris and Trump instead. The level of delusion is strong in Ireland. I think people really belive we will come out as some kind of world champions of dealing with this.
You can’t just wish away, or pretend that our health service was appalling before this even started. If you think that a culture that allows this type of health service to develop in the first place; will suddenly change and be capable of dealing with this crisis then that’s delusion. I have no doubt that there are many, many dog their level best but it won’t be enough in the face of cultural intransigence
I wish it weren’t the case but it’s reality.
Cian
Andrew is there a hierarchy of sneering?
Some of us are bad because we sneer at UK/USA Boris and Trump?
But you are somehow better because you’re sneering at Ireland?
Andrew
I’m not ‘sneering’ at Ireland Cian. I am making a genuine criticism that our pretence at following the South Korean model was pie in the sky and unfeasible from the start. The U.K were at least realistic about this aspect.
We have now moved away from this model but wasted a lot of time and resources.
@Nigel you’re not worth responding to, Cian is at least a genuine and informed contributor to this site.
Nigel
I don’t think it’s safe to have so many straw men crowded together in one place.
Will Trump cancel the election because of CV19? His madness will cost many more lives. If the US Republicans had any sense, they would remove him now.
republicans will see it all burn before they accept their mistakes
…what mistakes…a Republican president who looks a shoo-in for a second term…the Democrats snatched defeat from the jaws of certain victory last time by ignoring the democratic will of their own supporters and look set to do the same this time round…
so it’s the will of the people to ignore medical advice and open the country back up again??
…in an electoral democracy the people elect a government to carry out their wishes…the only country that I can think of where a government is making life or death decisions but has recently been voted out of office is Ireland…
bisted – If FG were voted out of office – who was voted into office? And why aren’t they stepping up and trying to lead?
It’s funny that when the job entailed going to USA for St Patricks day and having a surplus of €5bn there were lots of interested parties…. but now when it is “life and death” decisions and a €5bn deficit: [tumbleweed].
And I’m sure Varadkar and the various Ministers would much prefer that someone else was in charge.
…Cian…seems we agree that the electorate rejected the standing government at the last election but they are still making the decisions…I agree that the constitution provides for this but to have the like of Regina Doherty still in a position of power and in such an important portfolio is a failure of leadership…
I didn’t agree with you. And you didn’t answer my question.
Who was voted into office?
…ah Cian…and there was me thinking that we finally agreed on something…anyway…strictly speaking you are correct. The FFers had the most seats and they promised their voters that they would not go into government with the shinners. The shinners had the next most seats but didn’t field enough candidates to maximise the vote they received…a serious error of judgement and makes you wonder if they are serious about forming a government. FG finished in third place and definitely won’t talk to the shinners but will talk to FF…so…to answer your question…colour me obvious but some kind of arrangement between FF and FG seems to be what the majority voted for…in the national interest, of course…
Bernie Sanders, unfortunately, had even less chance of winning than that treacherous piece of scum moulded in kissengers image, hillary clinton. Only by about 5 percent though.
If you look up Prof Helmut Northup and his “The Primary Model” system and website…
… & also Prof. Alan Lichtman and his “Keys to the White House” system of election data modelling and analysis.. you can see the various technical and historical reasons why.
So, basically it’s Trumps to lose, most likely he first needs the economy to tank badly and maybe the Corona/covid19 virus could cause something unpredictable but that still does not guarantee anyone can beat him.
Trump. at the moment, has a 91- 95% chance of being re-elected.
Sadly, a failing empire with a surveillance state run corporate oligarchy is not ready for even a return to “New Deal” style common sense centre ground policies or a move towards western European social democracy.
He has won far more and in many more ways than he was expected to in terms of inspiring and accelerating new ideas in the heavily corrupted and corrosive or regressive mainstream discourse.
It shows you how corrupt it is when the elections can be accurately predicted over six months in advance by multiple experts.
The ‘murica political system is completely f***ed, thanks to all the lobbyists and lawyers on behalf of corporations and bankers/wall st…. It’ll probably be another decade before enough momentum builds for it to return to “New Deal” policies.
:-J
Jays
That’s a mouthful
Haha.. ye and it’s not even the half of it…
– badly written off the top of my head…
:-J
Logic says that if the economy tanks and thousands die of a virus he called a hoax, he should lose bigly. However, it is America and their education system seems to be as bad as their health system.
Ye, the corrupt economy is being bailed out again as usual as we type. Drumpf can’t do it fast enough so he won’t lose votes…
– The corrupt(and technically illegal) fed print more debt(dollars)
– Continue the quantative easing transfer of even more of the public taxes/wealth/assets to private interests
– Fuel the artificially inflated and rigged wall st. / banking class and the (pseudo)free market even more.
Socialism for the corrupt elite minority & Austerity for the people.
:-J
Hard not to be inspired by this type of passivity, complascency and amoral lack of judgement.
Greta pushing her luck.
…she’s loosing the limelight to this…there’s a bang of ‘if you have it,i have it’ off her….sad…hopefully people will realise she’s not as relevant as her parents think she should be…$$$€€€£££.
nothing like a global pandemic to bring out the nicer side of human nature….massive eye roll
What? She forced the DM to publish her tweet and photo?!
old white males will be happy with that news
It’s bizarre in this country that people are more concerned with what Trump or Boris are up to rather than the failings of our own government and public service. The traditional media is playing its usual role of half-hearted questioning but essentially being ‘onside’ while doing a bit of Boris and Trump bashing when they can.
Jingoistic is what best describes our media landscape now.
Nio real change for many workers this morning whose employers will still force them to come in to work. Varadkar still vague and weasly in this whole area.
Holohan/Harris is ‘tightening’ the criteria for testing to ‘Fever and a cough or shortness of breath’
But Claire Byrne didn’t have a temperature at any stage, she tells us – from the RTE website:
‘She said she had been displaying symptoms of what she assumed was a head cold or chest infection and she said she had no temperature at any stage.
Ms Byrne described to viewers that she was tested for the coronavirus at a Health Service Executive facility, where a nurse used a swab to take a sample from her throat and nasal passage.’
a) Why would Holohan/Harris exclude someone who has everything but the fever from having the test?
or
b) Did Claire Byrne have a special dose of it, without the fever?
Possibly because when circumstances change different decisions are made?
I imagine that the fever/shortness of breath are the more dangerous or severe of the symptoms. Most people aren’t made so ill by the virus that they require hospital admittance, and I would surmise that those people who do require hospital care are the priority.
If everyone follows the social distancing requirements and behaves as though they are a carrier for the virus where showing symptoms of say, a common head cold, then it takes stress off our healthcare workers and off the testing centres so that they can be used to maximum effect.
exactly, ( but we will have none of that level headed rationale around here Madame)
now back to outrage, drama and panic
Millie – And then square that interpretation with Simon Harris ‘”We need to test as many people as we can” Health Minister Simon Harris discusses testing for Covid 19, and how the government plans to prioritise people who need to be tested.
What I’m reading into the “as many people as we can” is that there isn’t enough testing kits, and find that a rational conclusion to make (Janet?)
Over 90% of those tested are returning negative results. With the worldwide demand for testing kits it makes sense to prioritise those who need testing. 60,000 test kits are being distributed and there are another 100,000 on the way from China according to the HSE.
I think it’s a case of a limited amount of resources – not just the tests, but in our healthcare system across the board, including people (our healthcare staff are not machines, after all), and managing them as best as possible. If there is a further influx of infection, for example, as seen in Italy and Spain, then they need to be prepared across the board for that possibility.
So yes, while they want to test as many people as possible, as per Harris’ words, there are practicalities and the welfare of those on the front line to observe as well.
At least, that’s my own reading of it.
If he said “test everyone” – I would assume that there are 5 million test kits and enough labs to process 5 million tests.
But he said “as many people as we can” – so yes, there are some limits. The limit is (one or more of):
– test kits;
– capacity of laboratories to process tests;
– the implementation process (I.e. get kits to trained staff; get infected people to testing locations; do the tests; get the completed kits back to laboratories, get result back to people.)
And yes, there needs to be a prioritisation of who to test. Someone that is comfortable and happily self-isolating at home should be a lower priority than say a nurse that has symptoms and needs to know if he can go to work or if that is putting others at risk.
I’m not sure I like the idea of tightening the criteria. Widespread testing seems to be the big thing in places like S. Korea where they got a handle on the virus very quickly. Focusing on people already in hospital seems like a move towards the much criticised UK approach to testing.
Simply they do not have the means to make there target numbers for testing. It is now 4-5 day delay between your doctor referring you for a test and you presenting yourself to get the swab taken.
You can say you are following the South Korea model all you like, but the fact is we are not. We may aspire to follow it, but that’s about it, aspiration. The delay in just getting a test and the subsequent delay in getting a result render a lot of the rhetoric and grand claims meaningless.
But forget about that, let’s pretend we’re the best little country in the world and sneer at Boris and Trump instead. The level of delusion is strong in Ireland. I think people really belive we will come out as some kind of world champions of dealing with this.
You can’t just wish away, or pretend that our health service was appalling before this even started. If you think that a culture that allows this type of health service to develop in the first place; will suddenly change and be capable of dealing with this crisis then that’s delusion. I have no doubt that there are many, many dog their level best but it won’t be enough in the face of cultural intransigence
I wish it weren’t the case but it’s reality.
Andrew is there a hierarchy of sneering?
Some of us are bad because we sneer at UK/USA Boris and Trump?
But you are somehow better because you’re sneering at Ireland?
I’m not ‘sneering’ at Ireland Cian. I am making a genuine criticism that our pretence at following the South Korean model was pie in the sky and unfeasible from the start. The U.K were at least realistic about this aspect.
We have now moved away from this model but wasted a lot of time and resources.
@Nigel you’re not worth responding to, Cian is at least a genuine and informed contributor to this site.
I don’t think it’s safe to have so many straw men crowded together in one place.