24 thoughts on “Monday’s Papers

    1. Verbatim

      Buy why? It’s an intelligent article…
      So many young men like the one in the Examiner, I’m pissed off, (and usually pissed) and the world owes me!

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      1. Nigel

        A cabal of epidemiologists is conspiring to monger fear and panic in order to facilitate governments worldwide in curtailing citizen’s freedoms and destroy their economies. Coincidentally, with little to no correlation, people are dying of the novel coronavirus. It’s only intelligent insamuch as it somehow succesfully creates an article around this thesis that somehow convinces people it’s ‘intelligent.’ Interestingly it’s the same fundamental model of argument that has been used, and will continue to be used, to oppose action on climate change.

        Reply
    2. Some old queen

      IMO that is one of the most articulate opinion pieces from that side of the house but, it still doesn’t explain why such a surge in the seriously ill and fatalities.

      As for each individual countries metrics, the only clear picture would be if every country tested exactly the same percentage of the population, but even that would need to be of similar demographics.

      The main thing everyone seems to agree on is that the more testing the better and yet, Páirc Uí Chaoimh is closed due to no kits, Croke Park likewise although no reason given there, and Samuel Beckett appears empty of patients- it doesn’t make sense.

      Just wondering- is the test specifically for COVID-19 or will it return positive for any Corona virus?

      Reply
  1. Some old queen

    So. We have had a couple of plane loads of urgent PPE from China now which begs the question- where was the forward planning?

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    1. GiggidyGoo

      And in Cork they had to close the drive-through testing area because of lack of testing kits yesterday.

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    2. Cian

      ” where was the forward planning?”
      Well the HSE had to order them… before they collect them.
      There is a time-lag between putting in an order and it being made ready.

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      1. GiggidyGoo

        If you could give the length of the time-lag, your post might make more sense. This is end March. We knew about this situation before January. The Chinese don’t mess about when it comes to mass production (due to the many clothing/equipment manufacturers in China, the turn-around is a matter of weeks – maximum – for this standard PPE equipment)- the time factor is normally due to the transit time for containers (40 days approx by sea / 20-23 days by Silk Road), but these shipments are airfreight – 1 day. It does in fact smack of lack of forward planning as SOQ says. Not just by our HSE, but also many other countries health Services.

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        1. Cian

          Are you an expert in logistics and manufacturing?
          the US was sending PPE to China (according to class wario’s tweet) in Feb. If China needed to import PPE then why would they be selling it? Oh, and did you not know that there were massive lockdowns in China? Production stopped.

          No. in your world the HSE should have realised last year that a regional outbreak of flu in China was going to turn into a global pandemic and they should have ordered €220m worth of PPE. (Note: Ireland usually uses €15 worth of PPE per annum). So the HSE should have pre-ordered 15-years worth of equipment – just in case. Bonkers.

          Oh. Do you know how government procurement works? If they wanted to do an order of that magnitude it has to go to EU-level procurement. So HSE needs to write a tender. Then publish the Tender. There is a 30-day window for suppliers to respond. The HSE needs to choose a vendor based on the responses. There is a 15-day cooling off period to allow the other tenderers to appeal. Then you start contract negotiations. Then you sign contracts. Then you can submit the order.

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        2. Some old queen

          Ok two points Cian

          I am not claiming to be an expert in either state procurement or Advanced Production Scheduling but I have reasonable exposure to both.

          You are right about the EU procurement rules but when you have a national public health emergency coming hurtling down the tracks then you bend the rules, break them even. Let the EU come back and try to penalise because you can be certain Ireland would not have been the only country doing it.

          As it stands we have a very high rate of infections among medics and that is at least partly due to lack of proper PPE- these, the most important people in our country right now.

          As for scheduling- if I can configure a system to take into account up to 6 month lead times for raw materials, process one on site, process two in the US, three on site, four in Europe, and five on site taking into account all sorts of variables- AND provide a reasonable ETA for a client- how hard is it to order PPE in advance then store?

          Furthermore, O’Neills sports are now making PPE for NI NHS. How many manufacturing companies in ROI were approached to do likewise?

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          1. Cian

            But we didn’t have a national public health emergency back in January – so full procurement would have been needed.
            By February the whole world was looking for PPEs — yes we can bypass procurement…but there is a global shortage.

            We are looking to buy 15 years worth of PPE…. so I would assume that the whoel world is looking for 15 years wortk- it takes time to ramp up production – especially when the countries are closing down due to the virus.

            It is terrible that medics are getting infected – but the is across the whole world. It’s not just a HSE issue. Nobody was prepared.

          2. Some old queen

            Why 15 years?

            That our medic infection rate is so high would suggest that some other countries were way more prepared than here. This is not situation where we should have to rely on the kindness of others- not that the UK is much better of course.

            But the one that really irks me is the advice given to OAP homes- they should have been in full lock down from the get go.

          3. Cian

            An article[1] I read said that HSE spends €15m annually on PPE; the current China order is €215m…= 15 years worth.

            [1]https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/irish-flight-bringing-ppe-from-china-arrives-in-dublin-1.4214987

        3. Clampers Outside

          You knew this was coming in December!

          Wow! At least 2 weeks before the WHO said it wasn’t a virus that would affect humans.

          You’re amazing, what crystal ball was that, EuroGiant or Dealz?

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      2. topsy

        Forward planning: let 5000 northern italians in to Ireland for a game that wasn’t happening. No self isolation for 25000 idiots returning from Cheltenham. Ye, HSE in late Jan – we have everything under control, at most 1 or 2 cases in Irl. ffs.

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  2. GiggidyGoo

    https://www.eurosurveillance.org/upload/site-assets/imgs/special%20edition3_MERS.pdf
    A decent read about novel coronaviruses – and the precautions that were suggested / in place at the time, which should have given a clue to medical people worldwide as to what to do and what not to do.This is a July 2013 document, and it looks like not a great deal was learned by various government Health Services here and elsewhere, given the seriousness of this current outbreak.

    Reply
    1. Cian

      What, specifically, in that article do you think was interesting?
      And what, specifically, was not learned by the Dept. Health / HSE?

      Reply
        1. Cian

          Let me rephrase:
          What, specifically, in that article do you think was interesting?
          And what, specifically in that article, was not learned by the Dept. Health / HSE?

          Reply

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