The Dox Hole

at

Oh.

This morning.

Below the belt fallout from a trans Twitter spat involving Graham Linehan, JK Rowling and Hozier.

Hozier and Father Ted creator Graham Linehan join Twitter row over JK Rowling comments (Independent.ie)

78 thoughts on “The Dox Hole

  1. BS

    The vitriol,threats of violence, rape and the like that is being directed at not just jk Rowling but any other woman that dares to speak up in defence of their rights is disgusting. It is clearly unmasking the trans rights activists for what they are, misogynists.

    Let’s be clear, Rowling simply said sex exists and it cannot be changed, women are a Sex class and as such are the only class of human that can menstruate. She didn’t “erase” or say trans people don’t exist. I’m disgusted by the abuse she and other women have gotten these last few days. It just proves that women are still seen as second class citizens who need to accept what ever men decide.

    1. Niamh

      I even saw a trans woman explain that she finds the term “ woman”
      Offensive to her as she menstruates and would like to be referred to “
      Person who menstruates. How can you win that argument.
      Her argument was that she didn’t want to assume the patriarchal assumptions of women in general. That’s just for us women by birth people to solve

    2. SOQ

      https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

      “I’m concerned about the huge explosion in young women wishing to transition and also about the increasing numbers who seem to be detransitioning (returning to their original sex), because they regret taking steps that have, in some cases, altered their bodies irrevocably, and taken away their fertility. Some say they decided to transition after realising they were same-sex attracted, and that transitioning was partly driven by homophobia, either in society or in their families.”

      “…ten years ago, the majority of people wanting to transition to the opposite sex were male. That ratio has now reversed. The UK has experienced a 4400% increase in girls being referred for transitioning treatment. Autistic girls are hugely overrepresented in their numbers.”

      1. fluffybiscuits

        Quite simply that is the risk they take … its on peoples heads who transition….their body their choice

          1. Janet, dreams of spidercrab

            could it have anything to do with the accepted standard of beauty for ladies these days looks like a bad blow up sex doll, look at any insta, then look at 12 yr old girls on social media, duck face, porn poses, it’s a world I would not want to have been embarking on womanhood into, may e young girls take one look and baulk

          2. SOQ

            Agreed Janet- there could be many reasons including as JK had pointed out, autism but if it was your daughter- would you not want all of those potential avenues to be explored before she is allowed to proceed?

          3. Captain Pants

            Some of it seems to be that girls that would once have just been seen as tomboys are now being reclassified as Gender Dysphoric according to this unfalsifiable and evidence free ideology. Much of it seems to be a social contagion connected with social media.

          4. mal

            there are a couple reasons but they’re all anecdotal. i wouldn’t be surprised if internalised misogyny and ideas about gender roles didn’t play a part. however, i think there are going to be other possibilities or contributory factors. for one, support for lgbt+ rights is more common among young women/afab (assigned female at birth) people. women in general are statistically more likely to support liberal political parties/lgbt+ rights. so more young women and afab people are more likely going to be exposed to the idea of trans rights, information about trans people + transitioning, and may be more likely to find a supportive environment for trans people, especially with the explosion of interest in feminism among gen z and millennials.

            that said, as far as I know most desisting/detransitioning women who previously considered themselves to be trans men were trying to escape their body, because of mental illness or because of trauma from sexual abuse as a child, not because they were random cisgender people who just took a notion. what is worrying is that in those cases there was no safety net in place for people trying to alter their bodies because of trauma. of course, people who have experienced childhood sexual abuse may be in denial or find it difficult to admit to, which would make it more difficult for doctors to learn about that and take that into account when discussing transition options, and there are transgender people who are also survivors of childhood sexual abuse or other trauma, without that motivating them to transition.

        1. bs

          Vulnerable young people who haven’t yet learned how to live with their bodies, or who cant extrapolate the consequences of live altering surgery or medication, some of whom are autistic and are not given adequate assessments by people in gender identity clinics should just “take the risk”

        2. Jim

          At what age is taking the risk acceptable though Fluffy? We often discuss how the young brain isn’t fully matured and takes, often later regretted, risk. Take those kids in Meath who stole their parents’ car as an example. 5/6 years later, maybe their brains are mature enough to reassess their choices? Maybe that could be said of young teens wishing to transition. By all means, support them to dress as they wish, identify as they wish, take reversible hormones (are they reversible?) but encourage the surgery to be held off as along as possible, subject to good mental health etc. We’re seeing stories of regret. Some just advocate we thread carefully here and urge caution.

          1. Janet, dreams of spidercrab

            exactly the frontal cortex, the one that can understand consequences is just not developed until a certain age, early twenties I believe with the male mind taking longer, this used to be handy when you needed young strong egits to go out and fight your battles ( actually still is check out the recruitment age targets of US army) but in today’s society for the most part it’s a handicap of evolution for the most part,
            I’m all for people’s freedom, young teens is a crazy time, huge lurches in hormones, a mind unable to keep up with the body in the most ” straight forward ” cases,
            I would have been a crazy tomboy, knives, bikes and music was all I cared for, I think I vomited first time I was made wear a bra, would I have had people confusing me about my orientation ?

    3. Art Vandelay

      To be pedantic about it, she didn’t just “simply say sex exists”, people lost their minds as they thought she was being sarcastic and snippy with the whole obtuse “wompund…” etc. thing.

    1. The Old Boy

      The sort that involves taking sledgehammers and consaws to the servers might be a good start.

  2. Baz

    do me a favour

    1. get on twitter
    2. enter racist in the search bar
    3. click on People tab
    4. see first returned (answer below)
    5. enter TERF in the search bar
    6. click on People tab
    7. see first returned (answer below)

    Twitter is not neutral, cannot believe people have invested money in it.

    Guaranteed first search returns: Trump and Rowling

    1. Nullzero

      Hozier has a Woke persona..
      Whatever bandwagon was going through town he’d be hanging off back of it.

  3. fluffybiscuits

    Science and law agrees they are women

    If you just disregard what these people say they die away slowly

    Women seem to think trans women sharing spaces will lead to cases of rape or sexual assault is not something I have ever seen come true, at least in Ireland (cant find any stats)

    See if you are public about making your feelings known about trans women and your bigotry towards them in a public forum then you rightly leave yourself open

    Quite simple really

    1. SOQ

      Do you honestly think that threats of rape and murder are a normal response to someone who objects to the world ‘woman’ being replaced with the word ‘people’?

      Unhinged I call it.

      1. mal

        the threats of rape and murder are horrible and gross. some men think that they can get away with being sexist under the cover of being “progressive” and you see this in the debates about transgender rights. That said, Rowling has to my mind exhibited a larger pattern of transphobia in her previous online actions and been disingenuous about it.It’s not like she’s only made one sarcy comment about a small issue and everyone’s dogpiled her, she’s been edging around this topic for a long time and veering towards being very skeptical and critical of transgender people and transgender rights. for example, she followed Magdalen Berns on twitter, who thought all trans women were men who fetishised being women and pretended to be women for sexual satisfaction, and would misgender, make fun of, insult etc trans women w/ a social media presence).

    2. bs

      you’re a horrible little person.

      nothing rowling said was “transphobic” and yet a domestic abuse and sexual violence survivor is sent death and rape threats.

      can you quote a peer reviewed medical science paper that supports your first sentence?
      I’d like to see what doctors and scientists agree that trans women (males) are women (females) it would certainly strengthen your argument.

      1. fluffybiscuits

        I am a horrible person, in fact if you like I will be your worst f****** night mare

        Science to back it up – trans women have estrogen receptors and the brain and body are at odds with each other (why it was termed dysphoria for ages)

        https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200205084203.htm

        Threats are not acceptable at all but informing someones employer they are a bigot is perfectly legit. In fact its to be encouraged…

        1. bs

          wow…threatening language…you really do fit the trans rights activist role very very well. surprised you havent linked to a gif of a man holding a baseball bat saying “die terf”

          your article doesnt appeared to be peer reviewed and is based on a study of 30 individuals. so your assertion that “science backs this up” is not sound

          1. fluffybiscuits

            You said I was horrible so I might as well live up to the title…I would have said you making assertions first was provocative

            @scottser – I think its perfectly acceptable to call someone out and inform their employer due to their bigotry. Imagine this was a social worker?

            If people are going to be thick then use a nom de plume

          2. fluffybiscuits

            to prove how disingenous you are, you cited one article in relation to a trans woman in a womans prison

            Then have the audacity to not even look at the paper but attack its credibility instead of viewing the findings

            You strike me as a pure weasel bs

          3. scottser

            fluffy, a social worker and their caseload is subject to pretty rigourous oversight.
            do you honestly think it’s ok for some random nutbag to contact an employer outside of an official work-related complaint? that’s harrassment lad, pure and simple. and if i was you i would not go around encouraging anyone to do it.

        2. scottser

          ‘informing someones employer they are a bigot is perfectly legit. In fact its to be encouraged…’
          no buddy, that’s pure psycho.
          you’d want to have a proper look at yourself if you’re up to that nonsense.

        3. BS

          You clearly are a horrible little person filled with a lot of anger.

          So far today you’ve said a woman who states their opinion deserves everything she gets.
          Anyone who speaks up or shares an opinion deserves to be harassed and have their employers contacted.
          And that vulnerable young people who go through life altering surgery or treatment and regret it “do it at their own risk”

          If you are the type of person who seeks to damage other people’s lives and threaten and harass them due to their opinions I very much hope Bodger or the other admins ban you from the site.

          1. fluffybiscuits

            And proving truly you are a weasel with that unfair caricature of me. I wouldnt trust you as far as I could throw you. You are a venemous little cretin.

          2. BS

            What’s unfair about what I said?

            Love that you’re keeping up the typical tra mantra. Silly little misogynist

          3. V'ness

            Ah hould up there now

            Fluffy’s no more a misogynist than I am

            Would yis knock off with the name calling

            This scene – inflamed by this Glinner
            Is just vile

            Why the eff would ye bother togging out for it at all
            no matter what side yere on
            tis like Cork/ Meath 87 & 88

          4. Fluffybiscuits

            Im not the one hating legally recognised women..you might need to check that before turning into Mary Queen of Strops

          5. V'ness

            Mary Queen of Strops
            All I’m short now is Nelly from the Telly cogging that off you

            FFluffsS

            ╮(. ❛ ᴗ ❛.)╭

  4. AndyDufresne2011

    I have to say, that’s some response by Hozier

    “You won’t drag me into your weird, obsessive little culture war, mate. I wrote a message in solidarity of a group who’s life expectancy ranges in the 30’s solely due to murder and suicide (is it any wonder). Is your back not *aching* from bending to punch so f******* low.”

    1. bs

      His target audience is young “woke” kids who have no real life experience, so he’s obviously going to jump on all the woke bandwagons he can.

    2. Clampers Outside

      I’d like a citation on his claim regarding lifespan…?

      Or are we to accept the word of celebs on such delicate matters. I think not.

      Asking this question is not transphobic, it’s simply being thorough.

      1. Nigel

        As someone who is themselves weirdly obsessed with this culture war and the burgeoning global threat of trans people coming to take away your genders, how come you don’t already know what the life expectancy and suicicde and murder rates of trans people are? Seems like an odd blind spot for someone so passionately focused on the issue.

      2. bs

        its a widely discredited claim based on south american trans people who were engaged in sex work who were murdered. there is no real data to suggest that there is any real increase in murder or suicide rates in the trans community

        1. Nigel

          Phew I was worried trans people might have it rough because of bigotry and dsicrimination, which is being exploited to amplify this culture war hate campaign against them, but now I am resssured they’re fine.

  5. dylad

    Linehan is just wasting his days and talent on twitter, it’s like pushing a rock up a hill. He’s done feck all in years.

    1. gallantman

      Ironically All he had done for years was unleash twitter mobs on other people.

      Then he chose to die himself on this peculiar hill.

    2. Captain Pants

      Yeah its kind of what Twitter does to people – even though i think Linehan is right to be worried about the extreme ends of trans ideology, there’s something about the way he does it that makes me think the guy needs to go for a walk in the fresh air.

      He’s very aggressive and also buys into a s super-woke version of radical feminism that is just as bad as the madness he’s criticising.

  6. Conor

    Honestly getting tired of the exposure Twitter gets.
    A small proportion of the population engages on the platform, with the highest profile accounts having extreme agendas. Yet it dominates news and media with every bloody article on the BBC having some pointless tweets

      1. scottser

        it’s almost replacing the news at this stage. some @sshole’s opinion is now treated with the same validity as a fact.

  7. V'ness

    I’ve learned not to underestimate what people will say and do when there’s a keyboard doing the talking
    and there’s a screen and a whole WWW between them and who they are taking aim at

    I’ve also learned not to be shocked by who they are in real life when revealed – although that took some effort on my part

    On this particular subject, I fail to see why it engages people who should just mind their own business

    Let parents parent
    And let adults make their own life style decisions
    If someone wants to be called Mrs Fluffy Biscuits and wear a a Shirley Temple Wig with a full beard
    Then let them
    If someone wants to be addressed as a Them Their Miss Mistress Maestro Master or Mr Snuffleupagus
    Him His or Donkey Kong
    Then good luck t’ya
    If you want to talk about your periods or someone else’s menstruals, hormones or medical procedures, then don’t bother seeking me out
    I’m too squeamish, and quite frankly I would prefer to talk about sport, cake or what’s on the telly

    I live by a very simple code
    All walks of life are equal – and the More the Merrier

    And life is so much easier when we stay out of people’s private lives, and learn to live and let live

    Did ye learn nothing from the Catholic Church demanding authority over our lives, our hospitals, our schools, our communities, our State, how to raise our children, what we should do with our weekends, and our money,

    1. bs

      unfortunately the people demanding to be addressed by certain words feel they are more important and want to enforce everyone elses speech.

      they also want to be more equal than everyone else. it would be great if the TRA’s were preaching equality, but they want more than equality, they want rights which are protected on the basis of sex, which was done for very specific and valid reasons.

      1. V'ness

        Well in that event
        Like if I come across that behaviour from a person, or persons
        demanding more than I, or my child, or my clients
        the people I am legally and financially responsible and answerable to
        then I will address it
        with them
        face to face

        Not some general collective via my twitter account

        I walk my talk

      2. Nigel

        Mister? Miss? Ms? Mrs? Sir? Madame? Lord? Lady? Doctor? Your Honour? Mate? Chum? Pal? Robert? Rob? Bobby? Bob? Josephine? Josey? Pheeny? Jos? Sham? Tinkley Tinkle Wee Bell? Oh, the tyranny of wanting to be adressed by certain words!

    2. Andrew

      @ Vness You show a remarkable naivety and lack of understanding of the issue.
      I suggest you read a bit more about it and the implications for you as a woman and women and children in general.

      With regard to the exposure Twitter commentary get, I agree it is disproportionate but maybe you should tell our legislators who seem to take it is representative of society to the extent they are prepared to be guided by this.

      1. fluffybiscuits

        In what way pray tell was it naive? Live and let live…there are legalities to prevent such harm being done to those who transition

  8. Art Vandelay

    Whatever side of the argument you come down on, Linehan saying “Let’s be careful out there” is uproariously funny. The guy is totally unhinged looking at his feed as he sways from polite messages about “doing better/be kind” to going off one and calling people out (but usually subtweeting). Sad state affairs really to think he has lost his relationship with his Wife & kids, Arthur Matthews, Neil Hannon etc. over all this.

    1. Clampers Outside

      Where’d you get the info of that last sentence from…. Sounds like nonsense.

      1. Art Vandelay

        Oh I’m basing it totally of the all the replies he gets where they say that the Father Ted musical with Matthews and Hannon has fallen apart because of it. I haven’t seen him or anyone question it or reply to that so presumed it was true. The wife and kids thing is the same where literally every reply to his tweets is about her changing back to maiden name and him moving out of the family house. Again I never questioned it as he has never replied and given how vocal he is, I presumed he would have. Maybe it’s some sort of sick joke and next level gaslighting.

        In fact you’re the first person I’ve ever seen even question it.

  9. Matt Pilates

    Why should people’s means to live be removed just because they have a view you don’t agree with? Why write to their employer? Stasi mentality.

    Are you trying to tell me what is someone called you a complete and utter fupper in a pub because you spilled her pint you’d be on to the HR department in the morning?

  10. SOQ

    @ Fluffy- as you should know I am not anti trans and I do appreciate the issues that particularly mtf face. That may be just my experience mind as I don’t know any ftm although friends with a number of butch dykes which is close enough.

    My question to you is this- do you accept any of the points made by JK?

    My reason for asking is that from my perspective, which is shared by some gay men, lesbians and even transgender (the real ones), this aggressive militancy is doing the transgender and also the wider LGBT movement harm.

    Note that I am specifically referring to transgender, not the associated wildlife now under the Trans umbrella- I ask this question in good faith.

    1. Fluffybiscuits

      I share concerns that young people may regret transitioning and that puberty blockers may cause developmental issues. But I put my faith in modern medicine to have their best interest at heart. Rowlings comments are too narrow inferring you must have a period to be a woman. Are women who had a hysterectomy not women?

      @bisted truce ?

      1. SOQ

        You are picking up a tweet rather than her more considered response- once again, what specifically does she say in the link above which you think she has got wrong?

        1. SOQ

          ?

          Seriously love- I am beginning to wonder if you exist in the real world at all or- are you just something made up in the mind of a homophobe?

      2. Bob

        That’s not at all what she’s saying though. She’s objecting to the replacement of the word Woman with “people who menstruate” (or whatever it is)… i.e. the use of terminology for “women” which is designed to include trans men who also menstruate. Or at least that’s my understanding so please correct me if I’m wrong! I find the whole thing very confusing, and it’s certainly more nuanced than the black and white stance that many people seem to take – on social media at least.

        Like almost everyone I think people should be allowed to identify however they please, and I think that everyone should make the effort to respect people’s preferred pronouns. BUT that does not mean they should get to change the game for everyone else. Women’s sport being my biggest bugbear. Women’s sport will be ruined if trans women continue to be allowed to compete with them.
        In this case I don’t agree with the blanket statement that “Trans women are women”… or at least not if that means that trans women get to compete with CIS women.

Comments are closed.