No Prevention

at

Dr Tony Holohan, chief medical officer at the Department of Health

This morning.

More than 500 patients were transferred from hospitals to nursing homes at the height of the coronavirus pandemic which left Ireland with  the second highest death rate in care settings in the world with 1,030 victims.

Dr Tony Holohan, chief medical officer at the Department of Health, on RTE Radio One’s Morning Ireland said the high number of deaths could not have been prevented.

Via RTÉ:

Dr Holohan said that it is not realistic to say that the high number of deaths in nursing homes and other care settings could have been prevented as he said that “it is a highly transmissable infection” especially for those aged over 80 and this makes prevention of it challenging.

Dr Holohan said that influenza is transmitted in significant numbers in these settings each year and as Covid-19 is virulent and spreads even more easily than influenza, it makes the absolute prevention of the spread of Covid-19 unrealistic.

He said “we know the measures that are important in slowing down that transmission and we need to continue to offer protection to nursing homes”, although the numbers of infections have fallen.

He said that deaths in nursing homes in Ireland are at the lower end of the mortality experience in European countries and a lot of reporting had focussed over-simply on the proportion of deaths in nursing homes.

Hmm.

Holohan calls for more compliance over facemask use (RTÉ)

Previously: ‘‘I Expect It To Be Ignored, As The Elderly Have Been Ignored’

Rollingnews

Meanwhile…

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44 thoughts on “No Prevention

  1. Johnny

    This is what real leadership looks like with NZ a fairly decent comp to Irl.

    “It has now been 21 days since the last new case of Covid-19 was reported in New Zealand, and there remain no active cases, the Ministry of Health has announced.

    New Zealand’s total confirmed and probable cases remains at 1,504, with the number of recovered cases 1,482. There are no deaths to report and one in is in hospital with Covid-19.”

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/12-06-2020/live-updates-june-12-aged-care-crisis/

      1. Johnny

        ..true they don’t have a yank obsessed govt with homicidal tendencies, I happen support the policy decision its the mendacity and spinning, these families deserve know why their loved ones were murdered by FG.

        1. Cian

          “I happen support the policy decision” […] “loved ones were murdered by FG”

          If I have this straight, you believe that FG murdered their loved ones AND you support that decision…. so you support the murder of old people? wow!

          1. Johnny

            As a SF supporter I’ve been accused that on here daily,I find it highly offensive so yeah giving you a little back.
            You and quite a few others have normalized an obnoxious low intelligence troll who daily posts vile hated filled screeds about SF which incidentally in no way reflect Unionist thinking in the north or the UK.
            I attend many lunches/events with leading unionists in NY-including Paisley who is pro peace and prosperity, but you encourage a kneecapping murdering obsessed vile troll on here and normalize his posts.

          2. italia'90

            @Johnny,

            Is it that MLAL isn’t lying that has you triggered most or that you are in denial about SF’s very recent history and the fact that many current/former SF TD’s have been green booked and haven’t renounced their membership of the IRA?

            Murders did happen and innocent people were set up by current members in “felon setting” traps

            Check your history and don’t believe everything told to you without fact checking it please
            I’ve done it myself and learned the hard way

          3. Johnny

            How come i can sit and have a very pleasant lunch with leading Unionists from Northern Ireland most whom have suffered tremendous loss at the hands of the IRA-yet they never mention KNEECAPPINGS YOUNG LADS IN WHEELCHAIRS MURDERING-i log in here in mornings its a 5 hour diff-then read a lot outdated crap from bigots like you who are living in the past.
            Paisley wants align NI’s tax rate with the south and is singularly focused on promoting and attracting investment in NI-as the souths social and economic prosperity is the biggest threat to unionist’s it’s not the IRA from 1970 they worry about-your so out date its idiotic to even engage.
            Paisley and all the other leading Ulster business men would laugh at you and consider you a fooking bigot and clown.
            If Paisley and the CEO’s of most NI leading companies can sit with a well know Republican like me and not bring up rubbish from the past why cant you ?

          4. italia'90

            You’re a well known Republican?
            Who tf knows you?
            You’re a well known internet silly, bigot and dashed clown, if you ask me.
            Were you in ógra SF by any chance?

            Just for the record, I have stated this here before and also, so I can’t be later accused of setting a bear trap, I was a member of SF for many years. I had various officer roles in my Cumann and was a Comhairle Ceantair Chairperson, sat on both the Leinster and Dublin Cúigí. I have been a SF CC Campaign Manager, Election Canvassing Manager, organiser, treasurer and Election Agent for many SF candidates. Some presently sitting in the Dáil.

            Who TF are you again comrade?
            Oh you bought a ticket to a SF lunch with Ian Óg and still haven’t shut up about it?

            Put down the Kool-aid ya plastic republican!

          5. Johnny

            You know that tall fit really good looking cool guy, that Ian Paisley and other unionists like chit chat with at exclusive GFA events that you’ve never been invited to,the ones you read about in the papers-yep thats me:)

            Thanks for your service and all that, can’t for the life me understand how someone as talented as you was overlooked, sounds like the story your small little life though, just one bad unlucky break after another huh,now your old in declining health, sad,miserable and filled with hate,try find some peace your so toxic man its unhealthy.

            Life’s too short,I’ve had enough this blow me one last kiss…..

            https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-mp-ian-paisley-named-on-guest-list-15-days-before-last-minute-first-class-charity-trip-to-new-york-37739513.html

          6. italia'90

            I see why you keep dropping Ian Óg’s name now after reading the list of speakers at that event.
            He was the most republican voice in the room ffs
            IoI
            Hate to break it to you Johnny Mitty, but you were at a Unionist/West Brit/Partitionist event ya gobaIoon :)
            Keynote Speaker Simon Coveney Fine Gael –
            That. Is. Freakin. Hilarious.

          7. Johnny

            The conference and lunch which Simon spoke very eloquently at, was titled “20 years of Peace,” the marvelous Metropolitan Club hosted it,just off Central Park,a short stroll from The Plaza,you are correct there was no killings or kneecappings that day.

            I have mentioned before that Simon is the most naturally gifted and talented politician of his generation, FG selected the wrong leader.Simon is strikingly tall, built,engaging,debonair,charming,witty and a wonderful emissary for Ireland,history will judge that he did a bloody marvelous job with Brexit.

            The conf. reflected on the past two decades of peace in Northern Ireland,lessons to be learned,what could be done better and looked to the future of NI post Bexit.
            The three panels consisted of a variety of speakers, from the Clinton admin Nancy Soderberg; Cooper UUP, Paisley DUP; Doherty Sinn Féin,Durkan SDLP, former U.S. senator Mitchell-pre Epstein.

            No massages were provided thankfully at the conf, hopefully George was not too disappointed,regarding Simon he has a very endearing way of lowering his head to attain eye contact with most people, he kinda leans in.His shirt was tailored, suit bespoke, tie was rugby club what’s not to like about Simon :)

            https://www.metropolitanclubnyc.org/gallery

            Ps- some of our grandfathers and grandmothers fought the good fight back at the founding of our state achieving generational notorioty,the IRA never reflected nor represented many proud old Irish Republican families,especially those from the leafy suburbs of south Dublin…

  2. dav

    I heard the interview and it was a triumph in “how not to answer a question by spoofing”. His rambling non-answers wore the interviewer down.

  3. Truth in the News

    Evidence is needed to establish if those transferred had the the virus at all , if they
    had should not the contact tracing have discovered the spread vector to other
    nursing home residents and care staff…..a lot done but a lot more to find out

    1. SOQ

      In a way if they were negative was even worse because at that stage it was well known that nursing homes were high risk spaces. So they were sending negative patients into such an environment or were knowingly sending positives- either was a dereliction of duty on the part of those charged with their care.

      1. Cian

        Prior to the outbreak in Ireland there were lots of (old) people in hospital. The hospitals were going to be actively treating people with COVID. Once it hit there was a 100% change that the hospitals had COVID. As soon as a hospital got its first COVID patient it was literally the *worst* place to have any high-risk patients (who didn’t have COVID).

        Moving negatives to care homes was the best thing.

        Testing isn’t the answer either for two reasons.
        a) If the test is performed too soon after infection it will show a false-negative.
        b) it takes a number of days (back in march it was a week) to get the results back. What do you do with the people while you wait for the results? How do you protect them while waiting for the results?

        1. Dr.Fart

          fact: roughyl 1700 people have died from covid 19 in ireland. 1030 of them were in nursing homes. It was a monumental fupp up. Holohan knows that, as he danced around answering questions on it. Yet YOU are still here defending that action, twisting every thing you can to try aid your argument. well here’s news for you, because I genuinely think you don’t know this.. but.. no one believes you. You are a joke around here. You argue in the face of fact all the time. Sometimes its amusing, mostly annoying, but in this case, absolutey DISGUSTING. I’m livid, absolutely livid, you’re a disgusting monster to come on here and say 1030 people needlessly left to die was “the best thing” .. i straight up hate you, completely moral free ghoul who puts party over actual human life.

        2. GiggidyGoo

          Cian – throughout this pandemic it seems that the only people with a bit of cop-on were the likes of the

          – Nursing Homes who closed their doors – only to be instructed by Harris and Holohan to open back up. At which point, the nursing homes started then to have older people dumped on to them with no testing, lack of PPE. The situation as regards the deaths in nursing homes is 100% at the door of Holohan (cannot trust anything he says/does after the Cervical Cancer testing revelations) and Harris (who hadn’t educated himself about the Covid-19, him being the Health Minister)

          – St. Patricks Day Parade organisers who knew already the dangers of large gatherings.

          – The many people here and else where who questioned the decision to allow a large cohort from Italy into the country when that was a Hot Spot. Likewise those who questioned the horsey people and Cheltenham.

          – The many people who suggested that at a minimum, temperatures of arriving passengers should be taken. Poo pooed by yourself Cian. And what is being done at some airports now?

          But what did we have? Harris, Holohan and their apologists blustering.

      2. SOQ

        Firstly, the hospitals were never over run and because of the cancellation of other procedures, bed capacity was actually way higher than normal.

        If a patient was negative and the choice was to send them to a nursing home where CoVid-19 was known to be OR remain in hospital- because of the standard of hygiene, hospital was always the least risk option.

        If a patient was positive, there is absolutely no way they should have been returned to a nursing home setting- full stop.

        1. Cian

          Lets see where we agree:
          Firstly, the hospitals were never over run and because of the cancellation of other procedures, bed capacity was actually way higher than normal. I 100% agree, but its not the full story. Bed capacity was way higher than normal because (as you say) cancellation of procedures AND the movement of patients to the private hospitals AND the movement of old people into homes (before COVID hit the hospital) AND the movement of old people into homes (after COVID hit the hospital).

          If a patient was positive, there is absolutely no way they should have been returned to a nursing home setting – full stop. If there were designated homes exclusively for COVID-infected people then this would have been okay I suppose. Otherwise I 100% agree.

          If a patient was negative and the choice was to send them to a nursing home where CoVid-19 was known to be OR remain in hospital- because of the standard of hygiene, hospital was always the least risk option. 100% agree.

          So we agree.
          But did any of these happen?
          – Did HSE send patients into homes where the patient has had a positive result prior to moving?
          – Did HSE knowingly send negative patients into homes where there had been positively tested COVID cases?

          1. GiggidyGoo

            Well, if the State moved people with the virus from Dublin to Kerry without batting an eyelid, and then kept stum until called out, nothing surprises me.

            Your last two sentences are exactly the diversionary waffle that Holohan is at. Both can be addressed with the simple question – did the HSE test at the time? If they did, then the people tested should have not been moved anywhere.

          2. Cian

            It is impossible¹ to know 100% sure, at a point in time, that someone is COVID free.

            All you can do is test someone, and if a negative result comes back in a day (or a week) … that there is a 95-99% change that weren’t infected when the test was done (the 1-5% is because they may have been infected just before the test was done – but it was too close for the test to pick it up).
            They may have picked it up since the test was done…

            Probably the best thing is to take their temperature or see if they are currently symptomatic!

            ¹ you might be able to do it if you have a decontaminated clean room, you decontaminated the person fully before putting them in the room and mand sure that everything that went into the room (people, food, equipment) was fully decontaminated, wait 2 days before testing them. Keep them in the room until the test results are available. Then you could be sure they were COVID-free. But that isn’t feasible for 100s of people during a pandemic.

          3. Dr.Fart

            look at ya, Cian. still flat out doing all kinds of twists n turns to defend your party. Most of us want the best for people. For people to be safe. For you its party over everyone, even with lives involved. as is the FG way. disgusting party who care faaaaar more about themselves than anyone else. Youre a truly horrible person with zero moral fibre.

            We had the warnings though. I remember you being on here protecting FG during the cervical cancer screening scandal. You’re disgusting.

          4. GiggidyGoo

            And in today’s (Saturday now) papers you see exactly how the hotel (and people of Kerry) in Cahirciveen was used as a dumping ground.
            Enough of your bull Cian.

  4. Sirtuffyknight

    Marcus de Brun now being lambasted on Twitter as anti-vaxx for voicing skepticism for the need to provide COVID-19 vaccine to anyone other than vulnerable populations, despite having vaccinated his own children and complying with vaccine delivery in his GP clinic. Not a peep out of the GP Twitterati on the Covid nursing home scandal though.

    1. GiggidyGoo

      That’s what happens to people who stand up to the establishment. The bots get into full flight and do their utmost to discredit anyone who holds it to account.

      1. Sirtuffyknight

        Unfortunately it’s not bots but rather high profile fellow GPs asking people to unfollow/mute him. Apparently it’s controversial in this country to suggest that big pharma’s motives are (shock horror) to make a profit and that availing of a rushed-through vaccine may not always be advisable, especially if you’re in a low risk group. This article on the swine flu vaccine is an eye-opener https://www.rte.ie/amp/1082127/

  5. Cian

    “More than 500 patients were transferred from hospitals to nursing homes at the height of the coronavirus pandemic

    Any source for this? Because it looks like it is from the Irish Mirror’s FOI request that counted all transfers between March 1 and May 6. March wasn’t the height of the pandemic.

    1. Johnny

      Cian what happened-my take is the hospital system was about get overwhelmed based on FG’s mismanagement and misallocation off resources during its years in govt.
      Given the outcome in Italy,hard decisions had be made,so it was decided to ship the elderly off to die miserable lonely deaths in nursing homes,the staff a lot whom are underpaid,exploited and living in third world situations spread it-the FG/American economic model coming home to bite FG in the ….crap housing and crap healthcare unless your rich.

      1. Cian

        The other option was?
        Leave the old folks in the hospitals where they could die miserable lonely deaths; while also occupying beds + nursing resources that could be used to save healthier COVID-infected patients.

        1. SOQ

          The plain fact is Cian- they started practicing war time medicine way before it was ever needed.

  6. f_lawless

    Interesting to compare with Sweden’s state epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, who has the character to openly admit that mistakes were made in not doing enough to protect those in Swedish care homes . Instead it’s the language of ‘deflect and spin’ from Holohan as he absolves himself of any responsibility: “Not realistic the high numbers of deaths could have been prevented”, “deaths in nursing homes in Ireland are at the lower end of the mortality experience in European countries” – just like the Fine Gael spin a while back:on the Irish homelessness crisis: “we’re below the European average”.

    1. SOQ

      Yes I mentioned that before- the swedes held their hands up and said in nursing homes we could have done better. It was refreshingly honest and somewhat explains why their authorities and the general public have a very different relationship to here.

      This was then jumped on by other country’s MSM as evidence that their entire strategy was wrong of course- but there was and is a clear agenda at play to paint Sweden in as bad a light as possible.

  7. V'ness

    Holohan has just opened the door to 000s of medical negligence cases

    he said that “it is a highly transmissable infection” especially for those aged over 80

    which is why “bedblockers” – the HSE’s own working title for these patients, should have been tested for the virus before being evacuted to a Nursing / Care home facility

    Any why all staff of these facilties should have been tested day in day out, and amped up with PPE

    And from long before his own set up at NPET were still humming and hawing about cancelling the Paddys Day parade.

    No worries tho
    Dr Holohan will be transferring to a Euro gig or something, so it will be someone else’s problem
    (same for Reid btw – my tip is to keep a watch on the Courts Service appointments)

    1. Cian

      V – you aren’t wrong. In an ideal world those things should have happened. Hindsight is wonderful. Unfortunately they were impossible at the time.

      – We didn’t have anywhere to quarantine the ‘bedblockers’ between testing them and getting the results (especially if it takes a week to get the result).
      – We didn’t have the capacity to test all staff at all the facilities day in day out (10,000s of tests per day – we still don’t, and probably never will). an If the test is performed too soon after infection it will show a false-negative.
      – We didn’t have the amount of PPE that was needed. We are talking about using a normal years supply of PPE in a matter of weeks. Nobody holds 2-years worth of PPE ‘just in case’

      I agree the shutdown of Paddy’s parade and international travel should have been faster.

      1. V'ness

        – We didn’t have anywhere to quarantine the ‘bedblockers’ between testing them and getting the results (especially if it takes a week to get the result).

        Yet the deal to shore up private beds was completed, deposit paid n’all
        And the City West Conference Hall Hospital and Hotel Accommodation secured enough to host a photo op

        So you know

        Try harder
        Mebbe

  8. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    Watching from Australia, I can’t believe how badly Ireland has done. Holohan being part of the Cervix cancer debacle should have meant the end of him. Harris thinking that CV-19 is the 19th coronavius does not inspire confidence. Being too slow to lockdown was critical. OK, Australia and NZ are not in Europe but both had direct flights to China, loads of Chinese students and tourists, as well as Chinese migrants. Once observation I can make is that the Chinese and Asian residents in Australia took the virus seriously. They deserted their restaurants and public places before the lockdown. Oz and NZ acted quickly and have had 102 and 21 deaths respectively. NZ is virus free. With a bit of luck, Australia will be there in a few weeks. Both countries forced international arrivals into 14 day quarantine – that was crucial. Some states closed their borders to their fellow Australians – they are still closed. I know Ireland has a stupid border that makes it harder to do things. I hope the next government is more completent.

  9. Ger

    Holohan is now what he has always been; a mouthpiece for government

    He was caught out on cervical screening and hes been caught out again, incompetent

  10. Ger

    And by the way, fine gaels attempt to rejuvenate the tourist industry by banning foreign travel is patethic

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