First Assignment

at | 88 Replies

Roderic O’Gorman Minister Children, Disability, Equality and Integration

Last night/this morning.

Minister for Children, Disability, Equality and Integration Roderic O’Gorman has said that, under a commitment in the Programme for Government, laws to make it easier for 16 and 17-year-olds to legally change their gender will be introduced by the new coalition.

Mr O’Gorman said a review group had carried out work on the Gender Recognition Act and have also recommended examining the arrangements for children under 16 who may want to change gender.

Mr O’Gorman told Independent.ie:

“They [expert group] brought forward proposals for children under 16. Right now, if [under 16s] want to initiate a gender change, they have to get kind of high-level medical consultants to actually sign off on that. Whereas the recommendation is to make that easier to allow a GP basically to sign off to say yes…. In an area like this, you should be led by expert advice.”

The expert group comprised Moninne Griffith, BeLonGTo (Chair); Dearbháil Nic Giolla Mhicíl, Department of Employment Affairs & Social Protection; Olive McGovern,Department of Children &Youth Affairs; Gráinne Morrissey,Department of Education & Science; Nuala Ní Mhuircheartaigh, Department of Foreign Affairs & Trade; Diane Nurse, Health Service Executive; Tracy O’Keeffe, Department of Justice & Equality (Civil Law Reform Division); Adam Egan, Department of Justice & Equality (Equality Division); Dr.Tanya Ní Mhuirthile, Dublin City University; Séamus Byrne, IndividualiTy; Sara Phillips,Transgender Equality Network Ireland (TENI); Michele Clarke, Chief Social Worker, Department of Children &Youth Affairs and Anne O’Donnell, Manager, Hub na nÓg – Young Voices in Decision-making.

New Children’s Minister to make it easier for under-16s to change their gender (Independent.ie)

Rollingnews

88 thoughts on “First Assignment

  1. Toby

    I wouldn’t have thought this was the main priority for Children today. But I guess the Minister has a different constituency to consider.

    Reply
    1. Toby

      Well judging by his choice of priorities, I would say the liberal agenda is driving this. So its more idealogical than ministerial.

      So the constituency I am referring to is the idealogical base that yesterday’s Pedophilia/Homphobia hoo has was all about.

      I would suggest that there are greater and more pertinent issues in the areas of children, disability, equality and integration in this country. But if someone can enlighten me as to why this issue needs top billing, Im all ears.

      Reply
      1. Commenter #1

        Ah yes, that famous constituency, “the idealogical base that yesterday’s Pedophilia/Homphobia hoo has was all about.”

        Also, I am intrigued by the distinction between ideological and ministerial. Can you elaborate?

        Reply
      2. Daisy Chainsaw

        How can it be a liberal agenda when it was agreed to by FF and FG as part of the Programme for Government?

        Reply
      3. Toby

        Neither of you are stupid so you know what I mean. The Ministerial approach would be doing the best for the Children of Ireland as defined by their needs, the Idealogical approach is doing the best according to your own needs.

        Roderic is an unashamed liberal, a fine man. He has to send a signal to his base, (he learned that from Trump).

        Lime I said, if you have a contrary point of view- let it out.

        Reply
        1. Commenter #1

          Is there any way to define the needs of the Children of Ireland outside of ideology? I would say no!

          Reply
          1. Toby

            Data.

            Housing records, mental health figures, poverty profiles, medical statistics, educational reports.

            Do you think that’s beyond Roderic?

            Muppet

          2. Commenter #1

            Aw I went from “not stupid” to “muppet” in 7 minutes. Disappointing!

        2. Help

          Meanwhile Tuam remember that and the babies
          Still no justice but hey a boy can be anything he desires before puberty

          Over to you justin

          Reply
      4. Do I need a username?

        Liberal agenda klaxon! Tobes, I haven’t heard that in yonks. Last time was Senator Ronan Mullen, the Seanad’s longest serving bachelor.

        Thank you for the memories.

        Reply
    2. Gay Fawkes

      Funny enough, Toby, I agree with you on this.

      I defended him against clear and obvious homphobia but I do think this is going too far personally. Regardless of the expert advice, getting a GP to sign off on something so drastic is dangerous.

      There will probably be plenty of lawsuits down the line from people damaged by procedures they were too young to commit to and because a medical expert should have shouted stop.

      I hope you can agree though that homphobia exists Toby, and it’s not just the first defence of the LGBT community to perceived genuine criticism, and that people can hold liberal and conservative views.

      Without liberalism there is slavery. Without conservatism there is anarchy.

      Reply
      1. Toby

        I can totally see that homophobia exists. And I can see that people are hurt by it every day. Thankfully there seems to be enough voices to quell it when it arises and that number of educated allies is growing. Hopefully that continues.

        Reply
        1. Gay Fawkes

          I’m just saying I think this is a dangerous precedent. I know someone who wants to transition. He’s in his 20s but he agrees that it should only happen when one is an adult. I see that this is nothing to do with surgical procedures though. However, the brain is still developing at that age and I, personally, don’t think changing one’s gender legally or otherwise should happen until the person is an adult. I know that a person born in a man’s body who identifies as female can be in a tortured state of mind, repulsed by their own body but there is hope there for them if they wait. I’m not an expert but I don’t agree with experts on this. The expert advice has been wrong in the past. Just look at the most recent BS post on Covid-19 and how they thought the threat of it spreading here was insignificant. At that time I was analysing growing rates of infections and believed it was inevitable that it would come here. The fact that the Government allowed hundreds Italians to fly in here in early March is baffling. The experts didn’t get that one right.

          Reply
        2. Andrew

          Do you know the ‘experts’ on this panel? Donal O’Shea walked away from it. Don the T you know about the ‘experts’ in the Tavistock clinic and why over 30 psychologists have resigned in two years? Do you know about Mermaids and their ‘expertise’ ?
          Be very careful before you put your faith in activists masquerading as experts.

          https://www.forbes.com/sites/julianvigo/2018/12/27/pseudo-scientific-hokum-and-the-experimentation-on-childrens-bodies/#a94b99a11670

          https://metro.co.uk/2017/10/08/charity-advised-mum-to-force-her-son-7-to-live-as-a-girl-6984649/

          Reply
  2. gallantman

    Is there any other life altering medical procedure that can be accessed without attending a specialist doctor first?
    Medical science is a broad field. I know I’d at least insist talking to an orthopaedic surgeon before deciding to having an elective knee or hip operation….

    Reply
    1. NobleLocks

      They NEVER answer that one, they just avoid it.

      Just like the question: what other life changing experimental medical procedures do you support for children without their parents consent?

      This is an appalling ideology and it will continue until the people whose lives it absolutely destroys bring them to heel with Massive law suits that will destroy the lives of those who allowed this in the first place.

      Transgenderism has to recruit to survive, hence this proposed change. It will destroys the lives of the sufferers and its upholders. Truly it is the Cholera of our time.

      Reply
    2. Daisy Chainsaw

      Gender recognition isn’t surgical. It allows a person to be identified on official documents as the gender they identify with. Gender is on everyone’s passport (although I dont’ know why cos nobody looks at my genitals when I show them my passport) if someone wishes to be identified as male, but their passport says they’re female, it can create unnecessary problems for them.

      Reply
      1. BottleCap42

        Passports record your SEX.
        There is no reason why anyone should care about which set of sex stereotypes you identify with, except maybe to tell you that all sex stereotypes are just sexist nonsense.

        Reply
  3. Micko

    While I’m all for adults being able to change gender if they wish, surely it’s not a good idea to let minors do it?

    I was speaking to a woman only on Friday night who’s 15 year old daughter who was sure she was a trans man two weeks ago and has now decided that she’s non-binary.

    Teenage years be very confusing for time for children.

    Reply
  4. Gabby

    This is a complicated business with long-term physical and emotional results for 16 & 17-year-olds who wish to undergo operations and other treatments. Does Irish society across the age, educational and social spectrum know what is in store?

    Reply
      1. Johnny

        ….every post every day like a little puppy following me around for a pet….stand up straight there would you for gods sake i’m embarrassed for you,are you really Irish at all do you have any dignity or self respect this is what you do everyday troll me – wow….

        Reply
          1. Johnny

            Diddums thats awfully English,are you Irish at all-or just another English troll….

          2. Papi

            Feeble attempt. Stamp your foot there now like a good boy.
            Tell me, did they call you Johnny as a reminder to always have one in case they had one like you again?

          3. Johnny

            tell me tell me boy boy-your a brit i knew it -on a Irish blog trolling the republicans haha… another useless full rubbish english troll haha

          4. Johnny

            God Save The Queen-generally i avoid trolls but specifically brits that harass republicans-punctuation thats all you got……….LOL.

          5. Brother Barnabas

            that would be grammar, not punctuation

            it’s not the same over zoom, is it? hopefully all back to normal in september

          6. Johnny

            yawn-zzzzz your like a boring drunk following me around at a party…obsession huh not just a spicy perfume,your a Brit and you have been following me like a little dog around its pathetic it just is.

            If im so incoherent why do you daily and obsessively read every one my posts and comment under me-ive never even read your nonsense not that you ever post anything worth reading…and you are a Brit on a Irish site-haha

            the end the empire indeed….

  5. Miriam O'Donovan

    This is child abuse, pure and simple. Sex with a minor is statutory rape for a good reason: minors do not have legal or other capacity to give their consent – they are too young. Facilitating them to permanently alter their sex before they are mature enough to consider the lifelong consequences should be criminalised, not enshrined in law. We are going completely insane about this issue.

    Reply
  6. fluffybiscuits

    They have to consult two psychcologists…I dont see an issue with this…storm in a D Cup

    Reply
    1. SOQ

      …the recommendation is to make that easier to allow a GP basically to sign off to say yes….

      Does that not mean there will be no need for two psychcologists and it can be done by a GP?

      Reply
    2. Johnny

      …its actually quite a clever and brilliant strategy,however I think he’s over playing his hand,he’s inexperienced but super smart,not always the best combination in politics, academia sure…

      Reply
    1. Toby

      Being gay is not a prerequisite for liberalism. Daisy. Why are you conflating everything Roderic does with homosexuality?

      Reply
      1. Do I need a username?

        Tobes, looks like your the one with gay on the brain.

        Did I thank you for using “liberal agenda” above? Hope so. I thought you had moved on to the latest mots-du-jour – woke and snowflake but no, today you served some of the golden oldies. Shur, don’t you aim to please.

        I suppose asking for “wife-swopping sodomites” might be a bit too much? It’s my birthday next month.

        Reply
      1. Toby

        Em, Daisy…

        “This isn’t a personal crusade by O’Gorman cos he’s a gay or anything”

        Why people want to continue judging everything Roderic does through the lens of his sexuality is deeply homophobic and does his actual achievements and qualifications little service.

        Reply
  7. fluffybiscuits

    A GP will assess if they can change and will monitor it. GP’s are by and large consumerate professionals and people can always get a second opinion if necessary. Under 16s is a different ball game but a lot of teens of 16/17 know themselves. At what age did you know you were gay?

    Reply
  8. BS

    Is there any other psychological illness that is treated with surgery?

    Is there any other psychological illness that is treated with largely untested medication which results in irreversible changes to a persons body?

    Is there any other psychological illness where a child can consent to the above treatments without the consent of a parent/guardian?

    I’ll await the silence from the TRA’s

    Reply
      1. BS

        Obtaining a gra does not. Children are being medicated currently in Ireland by U.K. consultants. This is clearly a first step to allowing children to consent to this without parental consent.

        Reply
          1. bs

            yes exactly. in the same way the GRC was snuck in under the radar during the marriage equality campaign. get the “easy” changes in first, then it makes the less palatable ones easier.

            do you really think this is about doing the best for kids? look at the “experts” most of them have vested interest in this new woke movement.

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            Do you not think it’s the best for kids? Would you prefer them to self harm or commit suicide to spare your slippery slope fallacy?

            What’s woke about giving a child a peice of paper that states they can change another peice of paper?

    1. GiggidyGoo

      And that’s a question in need of an answer. Such a big number of ‘experts’ yet I don’t see any medical doctors names included.

      Reply
    2. Daisy Chainsaw

      Why, all of a sudden do people need to be medical experts? How many priests have a gyno qualification because it didnt’ prevent them from weighing in on women’s healthcare for decades!

      Reply
        1. Daisy Chainsaw

          It’s an important topic to the children who want to be themselves without judgement, or chicken lickens screaming that the sky is falling in because someone born Male gets to change it to Female for official documents. It’s nothing to do with hormones or castration.

          Reply
          1. SOQ

            Gender Dysphoria is a recognised medical condition which can cause serious distress Daisy . I think we can both agree that the treatment waiting times are way too long?

            But, the idea that this can be replaced by a five minute appointment with a GP is ludicrous, and dangerous. Some of these young people are very vulnerable and need specialist care so- what happens if a GP is transphobic?

        2. Do I need a username?

          Dang Tobes, you accused me of “whataboutery” yesterday. Now I don’t feel special. Your trotting it out to every Tom, Dick (eek!) and Harry. Boo!

          Reply
  9. scottser

    i presume that even with sign off from a medical team, any treatment still requires parental consent?

    Reply
  10. GiggidyGoo

    Why aren’t 16-year olds allowed to vote?
    Why aren’t 16-year olds allowed to drive
    Why aren’t 16-year olds allowed the drink or buy alcohol

    Are under 16’s allowed to vote if accompanied by a parent? If not, why not?
    Are under 16’s allowed to drive a motor vehicle if accompanied by a parent? If not, why not?
    Are under 16’s allowed to buy alcohol if accompanied by a parent? If not, why not?

    Reply
      1. GiggidyGoo

        – Why not?
        – Under 16’s are allowed to drive motor vehicles if accompanied by an adult? Which law is that?
        – Under 16’s allowed to buy alcohol if accompanied by a parent? Which law is that?

        Reply
  11. Junkface

    The right wing have started using the same tactics as the left wing now. Its basically cancel culture. A person may have liked, quoted, or appeared with someone controversial, now there is an online mob trying to get them fired or lynched from social media. The political Left created this Monster, now it is eating their own. Modern Utopia achieved!

    The Left wing used to stand up for Freedom of expression, civil rights, freedom of speech, open dialogue regardless of the difficult subject matter. All gone!

    We are all treated like children now.

    Reply
    1. Clampers Outside

      +1 although I do hear calls from liberals (not-Leftists) and others centre-right to avoid going that route. I don’t hear that from Leftists.

      There is hope.

      Reply
  12. gringo

    Hopefully the ministers obsession with kiddies genitals will pass, when he grows up. Then he can do some real good for them, like providing timely psychiatric treatment, or places in special needs schools, or treatment for a dozen other conditions that affect them greatly in later life.

    Reply

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