Toppling Paddy Privilege

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From top: Black Lives Matter protest at the US Embassy, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4 on June 6; Statue of IRA leader Sean Russell in Fairview Park, Dublin

Ireland-born Author Angela Nagle, in pro- free speech platform UnHerd (more at link below), writes:

As a former colony, historically unsullied by the sins of slavery and imperialism, Ireland’s national identity has been largely free of the culture of pathological self-hatred found across most of the liberal West today.

An uncomplicated sense of national pride has remained the default, even and sometimes especially on the political Left. But all of that is about to change.

Toppling statues is just the beginning”, ran a recent Irish Times headline, if the goal is “How to make Irish culture less racist.”

As self-flagellating stories about the Irish public’s racism are set to now become a daily part of life, Ireland’s elites can breathe a sigh of relief.

Any populist pressure they sensed brewing while overseeing a deeply economically unequal society with skyrocketing homelessness, rents and outward youth migration can now be replaced with an imported moral narrative that turns the spotlight around on the reactionary masses who must, in the name of equality, learn to think of themselves as privileged.

While educated Irish young people in Dublin copied the Black Lives Matter protests from America, our culturally progressive and economically Thatcherite Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, recently singled out the statue of Irish Republican Sean Russell as a problematic target.

Russell fought in the War of Independence and died trying to secure arms from Germany in 1940.

Wrongly thinking that historical facts could ever stand a chance against the wrecking ball of the current international woke cultural revolution, some Republicans correctly pointed out that he was not doing so out of any allegiance to Nazism, having tried to secure arms from any nations that might give them. Protesters still vandalised the statue anyway, painting it with the gay pride rainbow flag with added black and brown to mark their support for Black Lives Matter.

Having uncritically adopted the fashions of American academia, Ireland’s new young educated elite have started parroting the imported language of “white privilege” versus “people of colour”, and the dangers of nationalism versus the superior multinational capitalism-friendly values of openness.

There is little reason to think the cultural revolution sweeping across Europe from America will stop and listen to the “but we’re on your side!” pleas offered by Irish Republicans about how they supported the anti-apartheid movement in the Eighties or how our nationalist heroes were anti-imperialists or that our Republicans today are economically left-leaning and pro-immigration.

Anyone who thinks these details will matter, and that any remnant of Irish cultural nationhood will be immune, is simply not paying attention to the unstoppable internal logic of the current cultural revolution underway.

This new generation of elite aspirants are already showing that they make no such distinction and simply recast the native Irish as “white people” whose privilege needs to be checked and ultimately dismantled….(more below)

Will Ireland survive the Woke Wave? (Angela Nagle, Unherd)

Rollingnews

113 thoughts on “Toppling Paddy Privilege

  1. theo kretschmar schuldorff

    Angela, some people simply object to having a statue of the leader of the IRA in their city.

        1. Ghost of Yep

          Evokes the Republic while denouncing the leader of the IRA during the war of Independence. Brilliant.

          Would those laws you speak of have anything to do with defacing private property?

          If people want it removed there are avenues within the law. Work away.

          1. theo kretschmar schuldorff

            The IRA don’t recognize this Republic of Ireland – nor indeed the Free State as constituted when Sean Russell died. Its a wild aberration that the state put up a statue of a man who was working against its government.
            And it is public property they’re defacing. ‘Republicans’ do a lot of that here too, and get awfully cross when they’re denied.
            https://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/10/16/youre-terrible-mural-2/

          2. Rob_G

            I don’t theo was proposing himself to deface it; merely that he objected to it.

            “Evokes the Republic while denouncing the leader of the IRA during the war of Independence. Brilliant.”

            At the time of his death, Sean Russell was in the process of securing arms from a possibly hostile foreign power (not even to mention the “actual Nazis” part) for a private army to oppose this same republic.

            “Would those laws you speak of have anything to do with defacing private property?”
            Indeed they do, yes. They also have laws about robbing banks using your own private army.

            The statue was erected by a body not representative of any electorate, but by some self-appointed custodians of what they see as Ireland’s heritage, so I think it’s quite normal that people are questioning whether of not this is the type of statue we want gracing our public parks.

          3. Rob_G

            Cheers Yep – only learned about the mysterious ‘National Graves Association’ recently, myself.

  2. Nigel

    ‘the culture of pathological self-hatred found across most of the liberal West today.’

    Oh seriously feck off.

    Ireland’s history is NOT free of the taint of slavery. There were plenty of Irish slave-owners and traders. Some of the very worst were Irish. Liam Hogan on twitter has covered this exhaustively. On the other hand we can be rightfully proud of Daniel O’Connell for calling them out. ‘Cancelling’ them, even.

    ‘Any populist pressure they sensed brewing while overseeing a deeply economically unequal society with skyrocketing homelessness, rents and outward youth migration can now be replaced with an imported moral narrative that turns the spotlight around on the reactionary masses who must, in the name of equality, learn to think of themselves as privileged.’

    Ah yes, the reason we have wealth inequality is people pointing out the bad parts of a country’s history as opposed to the whitewashed versions. This is scapegoating, pure and simple. I’ve seen people on the left here blame ‘social justice’ for the abject political failures of the Irish left, and the right is only too happy to agree. It’s black people’s fault that you’re poor and have bad employee protections. The reason we can’t have more economic equality is they keeping speaking up about racism.

    Meanwhile, the statue of Luke Kelly is more of a target than this Republican most people have never heard of.

    1. Ghost of Yep

      Do the nations which were not White and involved in slavery anything answer for?

      Do you agree with the statement “Ireland is a racist country”?

      1. Nigel

        The only ‘answer’ anyone really wants is for history to be remembered accurately. The remembrance of history in those countries is their responsibility.

        I agree with the statement ‘Ireland has racists in it.’ And Direct Provision is a pox.

      2. Ghost of Yep

        “The remembrance of history in those countries is their responsibility”….such a fupping cop out man. Cowardly.

        Thank you for the reasonable last part. Agree 100% to that at least.

        1. Nigel

          Unless you have a better sense of how that history is learned and taught in those countries than I do?

          1. Ghost of Yep

            It’s a long list as you know and are well aware was my point.

            As someone pointed out yesterday, your dishonesty when trying to debate or even have a conversation is excruciatingly painful. So leaves people, me in this instance, to just stop. Which you see as a win…

            Well done.

          2. Nigel

            I seem to have completely lost whatever point you were making, but then again you seem uninterested in actually making it, so, cheers.

  3. Nigel

    ‘Having uncritically adopted the fashions of American academia, Ireland’s new young educated elite have started parroting the imported language of “white privilege” versus “people of colour”, and the dangers of nationalism versus the superior multinational capitalism-friendly values of openness.’

    That’s funny, because long before those terms gained any prominence here we had uncritical adoption of the language of the alt-right – ‘snowflakes’ and ‘SJWs’ and ‘lol triggered.’ I would also challenge the view that nationalism is somehow less capitalism-friendly than the incredibly non-specific ‘openness.’ Ultra-capitalists love closed borders because migrant workers that enter countries illegally are cheap and easy to dispose of.

    1. Nullzero

      Good old Nigel.

      Us nasty white Irish people should really check our privilege,never mind that the Irish slave owners you mentioned earlier were British people occupying this country.

      Right wing catchphrases didn’t arrive here before the left wing nonsense, they came as a package,two cheeks of the same botty.

      Ireland isn’t America, we don’t have the same social problems America has, no matter how much you wish we did.

  4. Toby

    well, after 3 years of smug woke ranting and calling people names. (Ive seen homophobia, bigotry and racism claims etc tossed around here like snuff at a wake). all they seem to have achieved is an increase of hate and an emboldening of the right. No one likes hypocrisy and self righteousness, and all the “compassion” in the world won’t change that.

    1. Nigel

      The rise of Trump and the succes of Brexit have emboldened the right. The lack of a political left willing to effectively oppose the rise of the right has emboldened the right. Calling out homophobia racism and sexism hasn’t caused any of that.

      1. Charger Salmons

        ‘ … the success of Brexit ‘
        I knew you’d see the light eventually.

        Heh x 17.4 million.

    2. Toby

      Ah Nigel, you are one of the worst offenders I know in terms of “calling people out”. You probably think you are being “kind” and “just”. But you’re not. Thats like saying the priests were only being good when they pointed out sin. Robert Cialdini pointed out that one of the most important things when trying to influence is likeability. The truth is the woke are not very likeable. They are hypocritical, judgemental, interfering, shrill and smug. not a good look when trying to be “kind”.

      1. Nigel

        In fairness, yeah, that’s the problem – racists, sexists, homophobes, transphobes, right-wing liars and disinfo merchants, climate change deniers, Trump cultists, Qanon, Brexiteers, British nationalists, anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers, the Irish alt-right, online edgelords and trolls, the Weinsteins, the Epsteins, Nazis, fascists: they’re all just so darn likeable.

        1. Charger Salmons

          You’ll never fit all that onto a T-shirt.
          ‘ I hate everyone who isn’t me’ would be simpler.

          1. Charger Salmons

            Ah, you get it finally.
            Simple slogans win elections.
            Like ‘ Get Brexit Done ‘
            That’s why your beloved left-wing rarely wins any and when they do they bankrupt the country within a few years.
            Venezuela anyone ?

      2. Toby

        Whatabout, whatabout, whatabout. As I said, judgemental to the core. Unaware of the log in your own eye. As I said, the wokes are not very likeable. partly because they don’t enter into dialogue. Instead its a long lecture on how awful people are. Hows all that working out for you Nige?

        1. Nigel

          Well I talk about what I’m interested in, while you talk about likeability. It’s a great metric, just ask the people who voted for a charming reality-show host president of the US or the people who voted for an affable bumbling upper-class buffoon PM of the UK. Was that the sort of dialogue you wanted about likaebility?

        2. Toby

          Im talking about actually wanting change to happen or just wanting to be right. Thats why its called virtue signalling Nigel. You don’t want to influence or change anything, you just want the world to know you’re right. Look at me and how much I care. Even the minorities are sick of their pain being used by woke white folk being “kind” and “allies”.

          1. Nigel

            You seem to be more mad at me for being, in your estimation, right, than at the right for being, presumably, wrong. That’s on you, not me.

  5. Micko

    Ah come on. White privilege as something that every white person gets to enjoy is a load of crap.

    Go and tell Deco in the flats with a needle in his arm how privileged he is.

    Racist rubbish.

  6. gallantman

    Yes I agree. If people insist on doing that simplistic dichotomy between black or white then the history of Irish people is definitely more black.
    If you want to have this conversation here then it would involve looking at the remnants of British colonialism in Ireland surely. Those nice country houses that we go to in the summer for music festivals. You know when you hear the owner of the house going on about how difficult it is to maintain a house with 20 bedrooms. Maybe we should be asking why does this family still own all of this land? Why does the Irish state still recognise a land grant that was given to a family by the British authorities as part of a project to subjugate the locals?? I’m sure Fintan O’Toole is preparing an article on this subject to any day soon but I’m not holding my breath….

    1. Cian

      How would that work exactly?
      Person A owns, through inheritance (direct line descendant) 200 acres, granted by a UK monarch in the 1700s;
      Person B inherited 200 acres granted by a UK monarch in the 1700s, but sold them last year for €50m; and died (RIP) Person C inherited the €50m;
      Person D bought said 200 acres last year for €50m;

      Do we confiscate the land from A (and divvy it to all the descendants of the previous owners pre1700) – haha
      Do we confiscate the €50m from C?
      Do we confiscate the land from D?

  7. Junkface

    Ignorance of History is a problem with this movement. Everything has been over simplified. If there are records of Irish generals or Captains in the British Army or Navy being involved in the slave trade, you have to consider that they themselves were subjects of the Empire. You cannot collectively claim that Ireland as a nation was involved in the slave trade. We had individuals who were mercenaries for many different armies all over Europe. That’s the way it was at the time.

    The Slave trade to America was started by the British and Portuguese Empires at the time, soon followed by Spain and Holland. Also, who were the first people to profit from selling salves? The West African kings of Ghana and the Ivory Coast. They became very rich from selling their neighbouring enemies after victory over them in battle. Thats the truth of slavery. It is not only a mark on white Europeans but a mark on the human race. All cultures took slaves and sometimes traded them, from the Persians to the Greeks and Romans, but also the Native Americans to the Kings of Africa. It was one of the earliest moves toward Government going back as far as 4000 BC in Mesopotamia.

    Irish people should not be included in the modern American Left ideology of white privilege and self flagellation in relation to slavery. Ireland had no policy, no Navy, and no official incursions to Africa with any trading in mind. We were poor and subjects of the British Empire.

    1. Nigel

      It’s only ignorance if you accept her straw-man version of… whatever it is she’s talking about. The whole statue thing is literally about highlighting the darker, nastier parts of a glorified history. Ireland as a nation was not involved in the slave trade. Irish people were. Talking about this, acknowleding it, exploring it is not self-flagellation, but it does undermine the version of nationalism she apparently wants to promote.

      (There’s also the whole myth of Irish slaves, often invoked by racists and the ignorant – we got roped into the US debate whether we liked it or not.)

      1. Junkface

        Nigel, you are daft.

        So in the 16th – 17th Century Ireland had a population of 2 to 4 millions approx. Even if we had 10 racist generals in the British Empire taking part. That is 0.002% of our population at the time. Your argument is silly and ridiculous. Therefore you cannot generalise about Ireland in that way.

        1. Nigel

          I was, uh, agreeing with you about the history bit. Irish connections to the Atlantic slave trade are as interesting and valid a topic as Irish connections to any other historical events.

        2. italia'90

          The same Irish merchant families who benefited from slave trading in the 18th 19th & 20th centuries are still going strong today. You will see their names on infrastructure around the ports of Belfast, Cork, Dublin, Limerick, Waterford, Wicklow and Wexford if you went for a drive this afternoon. They didn’t do it on their own I’d submit. Most Irish towns and villages were economically impacted by the trade of African slaves.
          See if you recognise any names…
          https://www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/the-irish-and-the-atlantic-slave-trade/

    2. scottser

      we may not have had a policy or infrastructure on slavery but we still contribute to its legacy. take the likes of john mitchel for example – proud young irelander and unwavering advocate for slavery. he’s still remembered and commemorated by statues, street names and parks both here and the US, GAA clubs here and abroad also bear his name. And like his staunch views on the young ireland movement he was unapologetic in his extremist views on slavery.
      so while you can’t rewrite history, you can certainly deepen your understanding of it. GAA clubs in particular should have a good hard look at the likes of mitchel and decide if his values represent theirs. communities need to decide if they want to politicise their space with someone who could hold such abhorrent views.

      1. Junkface

        If we contributed to its legacy it was in numbers so low, that it’s barely worth counting, as a contribution I mean. We are talking less than a fraction of 0.1% You could probably count people from all of the colonies of the British Empire then. If you were subjects of the Empire you did not stand up to being pushed into things by the British Army, they had all of the power. Nobody can say that if they were born in that period of history that they would not have been pushed into taking part.

        I don’t think Irish people should be importing Americas social / political problems when we have many problems of our own. Wealth inequality, housing, healthcare and corruption being the largest.

        1. scottser

          counting the cost of our contribution isn’t only up to us to quantify. you can be damn sure that others will feel differently as to whether the contribution from both irish born slavers and slavery advocates was as negligible as you seem to believe.

    3. Cian

      “We were poor and subjects of the British Empire.”
      We were part of the British Empire in the same was as the Scots, Welsh and English. Tier 1. Ireland still has a quarter of the Union (jack) flag; and a quarter of the British Royal shield.
      Not Tier 2 like Austrailia, NZ, Canada, India, and all the Commonwealth bits.

      The average Irish person is as culpable for slavery (and other atrocities committed by the British Empire up until the 1900s) as the average Scots or Welsh person. That is to say – not very culpable at all.

      1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

        “Ireland still has a quarter of the Union (jack) flag; and a quarter of the British Royal shield.” – Not by choice. The oppressor imposed itself on us and retained part of our island. That is the only reason it remains there. The Union Jack is the butcher’s apron. If you want to be sucked in by empire, you can join Charger.

  8. Scundered

    Welcome to 2020, where “silence is violence”, and if you speak out about edgy issues you’re just a white privileged male so should be ignored.

    Well done to the wokerati, this is the monster you created.

    1. Nigel

      So hang on, let me get this straight. Speaking out is silence. Silence is speaking out. Edgy issues are, what, complaining that the woke are besmirching Churchill’s good name? This whining about the monstrosity of wokeness is so incoherent it’s hurting my brains.

      1. Scundered

        Nigel, it’s simply becoming clear that the woke trend is not good for mankind, it merely deepens divisions by obsessing over identity politics, that everyone must be labelled as (race, gender, sexuality, class etc) doing away with the concept of the freedom of the individual, and behaving in a violent manner if you don’t agree with their ill thought out ideologies. It is attractive on the surface but under the slightest analysis, it is quite the monster. It’s embarrassing just how many otherwise intelligent people have been conned into accepting it as a positive direction for mankind.

        1. Nigel

          Hang on just a second. We have Trump and his cult following in the USA, rolling back years of liberal policies – protections for the environments, workers, minorities, deregulating the same financial institutions that caused most recent crash, denying climate change, bungling a pandemic response at the cost of thousands of lives and doubling down on the bungling wby trying to force schools to open.

          In the UK we have Brexit putting the UK on the road to becoming a neoliberal hellscape with crony tories funneling millions to each other’s friends and the NHS behing further defunded, the pandemic response bungled, and no indication of any interest in adressing climate change.

          Right wing strong men taking charge in Poland and Turkey and Brazil (burning the Amazon). Russia an actual neoliberal hellscape led by a man adept at interference in the elections of other countries, billionaires openly funding disinformation campaigns to influence elections and push countries even further into neoliberalism, war in the Middle East, refugee crisis, the Arctic on fire, the Sahawel covered in a plague of locusts,

          but

          THE WOKE TREND IS NOT GOOD FOR MANKIND

          1. Junkface

            Right wing nutcases are also terrible. Let there be no doubts there. I would call leaders like Putin and Erdogan just straight up Authoritarians, not so much neo-liberal as they are neo-conservative. They are trying to crush all opposition in Russia and Turkey, kind of similar to the way China do, but no one can be as effective at crushing the human spirit and soul as the CCP of China (currently committing genocide, torture and organ theft on the Muslim Uighurs in concentration camps). Bolsanaro is also wrecking the Amazon in Brazil true.

            Having said, none of these idiots are making us self censor when speaking about or writing about controversial topics or opinions that go against the grain. We live in democratic countries, this should not apply to us. That’s why lots of traditionally Left leaning liberals are trying to make a stand against the woke madness.

          2. Scundered

            Nigel, the rise of conservative politics is a reaction to the radical left, politics was very left leaning until the left/progressives jumped into the world of identity politics and became anything but progressive, essentially driving itself off the cliff.

            This really shouldn’t be a shock BUT LET’S ADD SOME CAPITALS ANYWAY.

          3. Nigel

            Yes, Juknface, all those authoritarian figures are bad but self-censoring because somebody might disagree with you is the real madness.

            Scundered – ‘Woke identity politics made me do it’ is certainly how Trump cultists and Brexiteers and such often ‘justify’ their disastrous politics, but these people are also liars and I see no reason whatsoever to believe them. How is it anything other than another version of blaming minorities for other people’s bad decisions, selfishness, incompetence and corruption?

            Left politicians have repeatedly proven themselves so weak and ineffective and craven in the face of a brazenly evil right that if it weren’t for ‘woke identity politics’ there’d be no left at all. Hence the right is at such pains to declare it a threat and destroy it, as in this article, and many on the so-called left line up to help. Woke identity politics repealed the 8th, remember. Left wing politicians stood around and let FF and FG do whatever they want to the economy.

          4. Scundered

            Nigel, Having a view of the world through a lens that sees sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, white privileged tyranny in anyone that disagrees with the radical left is never going to grow. It is just an ideology based on hatred filled assumptions, not factual.

            Sure there are going to be small instances of all of the above, there always has been and probably always will and all sides have an interest in improving, but applying blame via labels/group identities is going to get a huge backlash, as truth and honesty is important to most people, they aren’t interested in your perceptions and feelings. This is why the woke tactic is to silence the opposition, as rational debate won’t win people over.

          5. Nigel

            Anyone who feels so incredibly threatened by people speaking up when they encounter discriminatiion is never gong to grow, either. But the hot takes on why you should keep on coming.

        1. Scundered

          SOQ, that was very satisfying to watch, it sounds like Andrew Doyle wrote that one.

          1. Scundered

            Yeah I had heard Andrew was no longer writing for him, but it did sound like his style so I thought maybe he’d made a return.

  9. RuilleBuille

    Didn’t the Irish government have a Nazi embassy here all through World War II?

  10. Zaccone

    Anyone claiming Irish people have any sort of white privilege is just showing their complete ignorance of history.

    Ireland was a British colony for longer than any part of Africa, the Americas or Asia. And within that 800 years of oppression multiple times had genocidal actions carried out against it that resulted in up to 50% of the population being killed or emigrating. And the country has still yet to recover demographically – Ireland is one of very very few countries in the world to have a smaller population now than it did in 1840.

    Both the local language, and a large part of the native Celtic culture, were completely wiped out and replaced by Britishness. We were more thoroughly, and forcefully, culturally assimilated than any African country.

    Ireland only got its independence 20-30 years before the rest of the British Empire. And it was still an incredibly poor, rural, country 50 years after independence. Its only within very recent living memory (the last 30 years) that we’ve finally economically overcome our legacy as an impoverished, economically exploited colony and become wealthy.

    To argue that Ireland or Irish people benefited from colonialism or white privilege is absolute nonsense.

    1. Nigel

      Like the original article above, this is a lot of arguing with points people haven’t made and positions people haven’t taken – the dreaded ‘wokemonster’ of myth and legend. I haven’t actually seen anyone saying we benefit from colonialism or white privelege, but a lot of people getting very angry at the idea. Maybe hang on until someone actually makes the argument before getting mad about it?

    2. Scundered

      Nigel, it indirectly affects us all when you see programmes / initiatives that specifically are only aimed at the promotion of non white people, so that’s an assumption that we too are white privileged and must be held back, when I encounter such things I present them with photos from my grandparents generation showing the kids not even wearing any shoes. Equality is important, and should never involve discrimination of the innocent.

      1. Nigel

        You are not held back by the promotion of people who rarely get any representation at all. You might not have white privelege, but my God the white fragility.

        1. Scundered

          So you feel it’s just being fragile, to expect equality for everyone regardless of group identity?

          1. Nigel

            It’s fragiity to feel your equality is threatened when other people, from groups rarely promoted, are given some promotion.

          2. Scundered

            You’re missing the point. The focus should not be on any group, it should only focus on being sure everyone has the opportunity, instead of fixing the results, which is morally bankrupt.

          3. Scundered

            You’re clearly obsessed with skin colour, get over it, go travel a bit and read more

  11. Dr.Fart

    irish youths obsession with copying americans used to be annoying and a bit losery. Now it’s actually way out of hand. Leo getting involved to suggest a figure that would help discredit Sinn Fein is beyond tiresome a driver of his. Im so sick of it, he’s obsessed with SF. These woke kids going to throw paint over a statue because they see it done in the states, let on they do these things because they want equality etc. Good actual causes. But how much do they really care about everyone if they hold THREE blm marches and continuiosly have canal parties etc., putting everyone in danger from the virus. Theyre selfish as hell. All the “woke” stuff is just a cover. They couldnt really be that good of heart if they dont care about putting people in harms way. and they dont care. its not that they dont know, they do, they just dont care.

    1. Nigel

      ‘But how much do they really care about everyone if they hold THREE blm marches and continuiosly have canal parties etc’

      Perhaps those are different people.

      1. Dr.Fart

        “perhaps different people” .. ah not really, man. cmon. it’s a small city. small population. in general groups from both are same demographic. For a good while i was happy to see young people majoritvely wanting a better world for everyone. But as time passes and I see more, a lot of em are just as bad as people on the other side (so to speak). Not just with these incidents, but with online discourse too. Looking to eternally scorch people they don’t see as having the right point of view, rather than helping people see the sound aspect of things, they just scream at them and want them destroyed forever.

        1. Nigel

          In their defence they’re fighting back against bad behaviour modeled for them by their elders, and endless criticism from the sidelines.

          1. Dr.Fart

            yea but my point is; doing sound things, so to speak. fighting for rights etc. But then giving up and not caring about spreading the virus. also coupled with this, is a defence theyre already setting out a stall for. Tweeting saying “theyre going to blame the youth for a spike, but its not us, its.. bla bla bla” .. which is an admittance to doin the bad thing. but is also the total opposite of owning up and being accountable and going about reparation. stuff they tell others to do daily. they are right to tlel people to do these things, but wrong to not do them and act like the people they condemn when its on their door step.

          2. Nigel

            Again, you’re assuming they’re the same people. Dublin really does actually have a lot of people in it.

          3. Dr.Fart

            they are the same people. and you’re trying to detract because you know im making a true point but you dont like it.

    2. Junkface

      Teens will do anything to fit in. That includes college aged kids, not much older but many of them have the same peer pressure to comply with the majority group. They see this woke stuff online and on TV so, monkey see, monkey do.

    3. Scundered

      Like many people, I have had family members who died due to the IRA but I wouldn’t want statues of past leaders to be removed or defaced, that’s like deleting pages from a diary. It is much better to ensure people are educated about the history of who those people were and why they took their decisions.

      Vandalism is just plain ignorance driven by mob hysteria with an added dash of virtue narcissism.

  12. class wario

    oh man, all the republishing of every bad faith ‘cancel culture’ take in existence here lately is getting tiresome

    1. Commenter #1

      The only answer is to not engage. Not to comment, not to click, not to care. As someone who has learnt their lesson, I’m going to try! And I’m painfully aware of the irony of commenting to encourage not commenting. It’s a burden being so smart.

      1. Nigel

        Nobody should comment if they don’t want to, but there has to be some pushback against this new effort at shaping the consensus.

    1. Nigel

      Someone linked to that one on the papers thread. ‘Free speech’ is becoming more and more a red flag for opinions that aren’t just awful, but bad. These articles are terrible pieces of writing.

      1. class wario

        i feel like there is a not small contingent online who are so rabid and rapid in their need to have their own ‘cancel culture’ persecution complex vindicated that they will accept any and all endorsements, regardless of whatever grifter dreams them up. the paragraph about a statue being defaced by random messers and how this will open the gates for antifa is similarly mad. can’t believe anybody reads this and thinks hmm yes this is good

  13. Do I need a username?

    “Pro free-speech platform UnHerd”…Ok Jan…

    Kind of like Spiked presenting itself as “radical left”…

    Well, we do live in a post-truth world where the above smoke and mirrors designations are as meaningless and mendacious as the content they peddle.

    Funny how the Iona Institute are big fans of UnHerd and Spiked but obviously no inferences are allowed to be drawn…

    Funny old world.

  14. SOQ

    This sort of thing reminds me of the Douglas Murray quote- never before has an entire race been asked to apologise for the crimes of its ancestors.

    1. Nigel

      Presumably he wasn’t referring to Germans a few generations removed from WW2. But if people stopped conflating acknowledging with apologising maybe there wouldn’t be so much fuss.

        1. Nigel

          I mean, if youlre going to go that level, look up the Sin Of Ham. They used to justify slavery because black people were atoning for their ancestor’s sin. An apology is getting off lightly, by comparison.

    2. Scundered

      Add into that the fact that humans have been moving around and shagging each other for centuries and it’s clear we have no idea who our ancestors are anyway, it’s a soup. Yet the woke folk seem to feel humans stay within strict breeding confines like it’s Crufts.

      1. Nigel

        Now you’re saying the ‘woke folk’ are aginst mixed-race couples. Congratulations. Your straw woke folk is complete.

        1. Scundered

          No Nigel, that conversation happened completely inside your head, if you can’t understand just say so instead of embarrassing yourself. The sheer amount of comments on here by everyone trying to steer you to a place of understanding tender subjects, yet you still behave like a rebellious teenager.

          1. Nigel

            If ‘Yet the woke folk seem to feel humans stay within strict breeding confines like it’s Crufts’ has some other meaning I’m unaware of, do enlighten.

  15. Johnny

    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.
    Yeats – The Second Coming

  16. Orla

    What the woke don’t get is that most of excessive immigration they support is an economic supply and demand problem for our woke supporting elites, many of the NGO’s operate under the guise of it being a humanitarian endeavor when it’s a subtle contemporary form of wage slavery for folks who will work for less, this has been going on throughout history and in nearly every case it lowers the working wage, look up the facts on this.

    The NGO’s are supported in large part by big corporate groups and elites under the guise of charity, they are in many cases propaganda outlets for justifying cheap labor, contemporary slavery.
    The folks who work in NGO’s are paid extremely well, I’m sure many believe it’s a good cause on the surface.

    Countries that want to stay competitive need a cheap labor force or the corporate groups will leave, having a relatively stable government is necessary , in the countries many of immigrants come from the governments are not trusted by corporate groups and elites. Immigrants are less likely to cause social unrest from being paid less, another plus our elite types.

    Gaslighting the public with accusations of rampant racism makes people reluctant to question excessive immigration under its current guise, the BLM movement is sponsored and supported by big corporate groups for a reason and it’s not about equality for them, the second BLM questions the big corporate system they will be given no public platform.
    Another reason you have asylum seekers still not allowed out is because since 2008 secure long term jobs aren’t as forthcoming, if the jobs market opens up they will “release” them, it’s contemporary slavery.

    Liam Hogan’s work is far from flawless ,his claim the Irish were shipped off to other countries were not slaves but criminals is open to interpretation, the current woke generation believe it’s racist for a black person to go to prison in the USA for a small amount of cannabis, 10 years in some cases, I agree it is excessive , Liam hogan doesn’t apply the same logic to the Irish “imprisoned” and shipped off for “stealing” a rabbit from a lords land in some cases, what’s that lady’s name who owns the swans again and what would happen if you stole a swan?
    It becomes another issue of semantics and revisionism with Hogan’s work, at what point and why is a prison shackle a form of slavery or justified based on perceived criminality?
    In some cases in Africa people were taken as slaves because they were considered “criminals”.

    1. Nigel

      What a great point that would be if, in fact, Hogan’s work didn’t mostly focus on the crucial distinction between indentured servitude and chattel slavery, rather than whether or not the Irish lads deserved to be transported for stealing a rabbit.

      1. Orla

        What’s the crucial distinction and who gets to make it? If a similar style of indentured servitude from those days was in present day Ireland it would be considered chattel slavery by your woke mindset.
        It’s selective “wokeness”.

        Hogan should spend more time discussing the sack of Baltimore by the ottomans where the local Irish were put in irons and taken as slaves to North Africa, it’s amazing this story doesn’t appear in the new woke Irish minds when denying the Irish were taken as slaves.

          1. Orla

            I have read articles on his blog, calling it work is a stretch.
            Does he cover the sack of Baltimore ?

  17. Peter Dempsey

    Jane Ruffino was criticising Angela Nagle’s article earlier. What a surprise!

    1. class wario

      this article is total scutter and it says more about you mindlessly eating up anything that fuels your persecution complex than it does anybody else for rightfully calling it out

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