Second Opinion

at

Last night/This morning.

US President Donald Trump claimed Dr. Anthony Fauci (top left), director of the American National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has misled the country on hydroxychloroquine.

He also retweeted a speech by Dr Stella Immanuel (above) on the steps of the US Capitol Hill claiming the malaria drug is a ‘cure for the virus’.

The video was taken down by Twitter citing misinformation regulations after Trump shared it with his 84 million followers

Via Mail Online:

 Trump retweeted a post that claimed Dr.Fauci is leading the country in the wrong direction by refusing to endorse the use of the anti-malaria drug in combating COVID-19.

Dr Immanuel slammed ‘fake doctors’ who doubt the efficacy of the drug, and claimed it’s a ‘cure’, adding ‘you don’t need a mask.’

‘If some fake science comes out and says we’ve done studies and they found out that it doesn’t work, I can tell you categorically it’s fake science,’ she said.

‘I want to know who’s conducted that study and who’s behind it. Because there is no way I have treat 350 patients and counting and nobody is dead,’ she said on how she allegedly treated patients with hydroxychloroquine along with zinc, and Zithromax.

Donald Trump says Dr. Fauci misled the public on hydroxychloroquine and shares a video of a doctor saying the drug can prevent the virus in Twitter spree (MailOnline)

Getty

Meanwhile..

Gulp.

Meanwhile…

57 thoughts on “Second Opinion

  1. Nigel

    Thank God this right wing culture war politicisation of the pandemic – entirely designed to give Trump cover for his catastrophic response resulting in thousands of deaths – is still fringe over here, despite Bodger’s best efforts, but I can only pity the US in its current state.

    1. f_lawless

      To better evaluate the significance of (off-patent) HCQ – both medicinally and in terms of its role in exposing deep-rooted corruption within a medical establishment subverted by corporate power – we need to move beyond viewing it through the narrow lens of US partisan politics and the politicised narrative of the pandemic over there.

      Unless a Trump fixation is all that really matters.

      1. Nigel

        Wow. A superdrug indeed. If you think the political culture war origins of the HCQ flap are irrelevant to most people’s skepticism about claims related to the drug, then you’re basically trying to martyr yourself as a forlorn voice of reason, and nobody cares. The only reason to suppose that the efficacy of the drug is being deliberately supressed is if you believe Trump and Trump supporters. That’s it. Trying to saddle that horse to lead a charge against Big Pharma is futile. It’s entirely committed to covering for Trump.

        1. Dav

          You’re dealing with a member of masks reduce oxygen levels cabal, don’t engage, it endorses their stupidity

        2. f_lawless

          “The only reason to suppose that the efficacy of the drug is being deliberately supressed is if you believe Trump and Trump supporters”

          it’s only a month ago the Lancet medical journal – regarded as a pillar of the medical establishment – was mired in a major fraud scandal related to HCQ. Don’t tell me you’ve airbrushed that from memory already?

          https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/10/surgisphere-sapan-desai-lancet-study-hydroxychloroquine-mass-audit-scientific-papers

          They published a study which found that HCQ had no measurable benefit and was having dangerous side effects. On the bass of that study alone and within a the space of few days of it being published, the WHO halted all the HCQ trials they were overseeing and changed their policy recommendations, in turn causing various countries to change their policies relating to the use of HCQ.

          The data set upon which the study was based was unique in the world in terms of its size and level of detail it contained for each Covid-19 sufferer. But it all turned out to be fake as was the company, named Surgisphere, which provided it.

          Within a couple of weeks the Lancet were forced to retract the study, calling into question the credibility of their peer-review process. The WHO resumed their trials, giving the excuse “we don’t have the time to check the veracity of every study”. But it’s just not credible that they wouldn’t make the time to do some due diligence on a study which would have immediate implications on a global scale. This was no average study. Nor is it credible, that the WHO would have been simply unaware of the existence of the data set touting itself as unique in its size and level of detail on C19 sufferers.

          It’s obvious what’s been going on is that ‘Big Pharma’ is using its extensive influence to try to discredit a drug which is potentially an effective treatment for C19 because it is off-patent and cheaply produced and might diminish the profit-making potential to be had from the pandemic.

          I’m starting to think that maybe Richard Dawkins was on to something when he wrote about “Viruses of the Mind”. You’ve exhibiting signs of a cultish mindset. Objective reasoning is impossible. All roads lead to Trump.

          @Dav weak put down. I’ve never once commented about masks and oxygen levels

          1. Nigel

            A fraudulent study contributes nothing to our understanding about the drug one way or the other, but does put your conspiracy-prone mind on overdrive. Nohody would be talking about HCQ as if it was a cure deliberately thwarted by thousands of evil people if Trump hadn’t mentioned it, entirely arbitrarily, in an effort to deflect from his failings.I understand Trump’s the elephant in the room you just don’t want to acknowledge, but there you go. Objective reasoning about world events in 2020 is impossible without factoring him in. To think otherwise is… cultish? Nah. Incredibly selective.

    1. Nigel

      ‘Dr Immanuel slammed ‘fake doctors’ who doubt the efficacy of the drug, and claimed it’s a ‘cure’, adding ‘you don’t need a mask.’’

      It’s a cure. A literal cure for covid, and it has been all along. That’s a big claim. If true, we are being lied to on a staggering scale. Fauci is a monster who just wants to watch the world burn. Apparently. According to, uh, Trump and Breitbart.

        1. Nigel

          She’s a pediatrician, so probably not lying about losing patients, no. Whether any of them had covid and responded to her treatment? Well, perhaps she should publish a paper rather than giving a dodgy press conference.

  2. Junkface

    Trump is dangerously stupid, ignorant and feckless with regards to his words and statements. He’s killing the poor and uneducated (his base) more than anyone in the US, but also a lot of confused old people who are used to getting sane advice or statements from a president. Its only going to get worse as the election day looms and he will also try his best to start a violent conflict between the left and right. I would not want to be living in America right now. Its a hell hole of division and whacky cults on the right and the left.

  3. Vanessanelle

    Take Trump out of your arguments
    Just for a second anyway

    This is a group of Medics
    Medical Professionals

    Who are licenced and PI’d to practice
    They are ones carrying the real risk of bad advice, sloppy advice, tardy advice or incomplete advice, and even failure to act

    Somehow – and given the sheer size and scale of the Medical Lawsuits business, and the costs of Professional Indemnity Insurance
    Somehow I’m not convinced they’d be messing around with Quackery, Conspiracies and Hoax’ers

    Dr Fauci has an entirely different role in the Medical Profession and answers to a completely different range of stakeholders, particularly Politicans who control his operational budget
    However for this lack of independence to practice his profession, he is indemnified, no matter what he says and does
    Or doesn’t
    He is about as personally and professionally liable for his Directions, Conduct and Medical advice as Dr Tony Holohan was – say for eg: the Cervical Check scandals
    Like Holohan, Dr Fauci’s livelihood isn’t impacted one iota

    Unlike all these individuals included above

    The one comfort that is absolute when you engage a fully licensed practicing Professional
    Whatever the discipline or nature of the engagement
    Is that if they give you bad advice or a faulty opinion
    That you relied on
    You have recourse to sue, make official compliants etc
    Challenge their Fitness to Practice
    And put an end to their incompetence, or at the very least make them answerable and pay the price of poor Professional Standards and Compliance

    Just saying
    These people aren’t quacks taking risks no greater than the risks they bring on themselves

    If these Doctors are prepared to put their Signitures to this prescription, then I’m inclined to trust it

    1. Nigel

      Given her dismissal of every doctor on the planet who doesn’t think HCQ is a cure for Covid 19 as ‘fake doctors’ I’m not sure your premise is as rock solid as you think.

    2. bisted

      …on this site a commenter suggested that this remedy should be used by health care workers instead of of using Personal Protection Equipment…this is dangerous quackery…

      1. Vanessanelle

        well there you go

        anyone taking advice from a Commenter that you can’t even name has no where to go with their compliant when it goes ar5e about face

    3. wake

      Do not trust anything these Doctors sign just because they are signing it.

      Do your own research – read the early stage studies that Pharma companies are coming out with now, listen to respected physicians experience in the field, pay particular attention to anyone saying they have had a “breakthrough” in the tiny amount of clinical time that has passed as the science has not had time to be investigated properly never mind proven.

      HCQ can show some easing of symptoms in late stage patients – effectively prolonging life but is not a successful treatment (the word “cure” should not be used – be wary of anyone using it)

    4. Nigel

      Y’know, I want you to be right, and that if a qualified doctor says it, that gives it some weight and credibility, but, Jesus, wtf is going on over there?

      ‘In sermons posted on YouTube and articles on her website, Immanuel claims that medical issues like endometriosis, cysts, infertility, and impotence are caused by sex with “spirit husbands” and “spirit wives”—a phenomenon Immanuel describes essentially as witches and demons having sex with people in a dreamworld.’

      https://www.thedailybeast.com/stella-immanuel-trumps-new-covid-doctor-believes-in-alien-dna-demon-sperm-and-hydroxychloroquine

      HCQ is an antibiotic! Covid 19 is a virus! It might help with bacterial infections due to a weakened immunue system! It’s not a cure!

          1. Nigel

            But according to you those people are medical professionals, there’s no way they’d be messing around with Quackery, Conspiracies and Hoax’ers

          2. Vanessanelle

            Slap it around all you like Nidgie

            Their professional bodies, certifying boards and insuraners won’t be having a bit of that out’ve them if that were the case

            mebbe tis
            I’m sure when they’re facing a complaints board
            and in court for medical malpractice then we’ll know

            Until then, they’re the ones carrying the risk of those practice policies

          3. Nigel

            The professional risk, maybe, if our understanding of how medical boards and certification in the US is correct, which it probably isn’t. The actual risk? Carried by the people they treat, or the people who are persuaded they’re right by a fairly relentless and agressive disinformation campaign, not to mention any dependants they have legal or parental control over. Dead people and poor people or sick people swamped with medical bills can’t afford torts.

    5. Cian

      If these Doctors are prepared to put their Signitures to this prescription, then I’m inclined to trust it.
      Seriously? An appeal to authority.

      Doctors are always right.

      Using the same argument Michael Neary must have been trustworthy. He was, after all, a doctor.

      1. Vanessanelle

        The point is, which you already bloody well know C!an

        Is that when Neary was found out, those affected patients, and of course it shouldn’t surprise that they were all women, or that the Consultant that said he did noting wrong also happened to have a family member in the media,

        That when Neary was found out those affected Women were able to pursue his insurers and his hospital
        And he was eventually struck off

        Who is going to Dr Tony Holohan / Dr Faucci and have them struck off?
        And make sure they spend their days working as Reps for Sudocreme

        1. newsjustin

          Trust a doctor because they’re a doctor and have a prescription pad.

          But don’t trust a doctor who’s spent his career studying dangerous infectious diseases.

          Eh, no.

          1. Vanessanelle

            one is licenced and insured to practice
            and possibly self employed, or if not, their employment relies on their professional practising cert

            the other is an academic employed as a civil servant

            eh no

            although I note that accountability and indemnity against negligence is something you struggle with Newsjus

        2. Cian

          Rubbish – it is an appeal to authority. All doctors are must be right (up to the point that they are sued).

          What happens if Stella Immanuel MD is struck off for prescribing hydroxychloroquine? Will you change your mind about her?

          I don’t know who is right/wrong about hydroxychloroquine. But your argument for Stella crazy. Equally anyone arguing against using it because Trump vouched for it is crazy. Medicines should be selected based on scientific evidence.

          1. Nigel

            The demon lover thing would seem sufficent, unless, despite V’s touching faith, standards for medical licences are incredibly low in the US.

          2. Cian

            @SQO
            Vanessa is saying that Stella must be believed because if she is wrong she would be struck off.
            I’m attempting to point out the fallacy of that argument.

          3. SOQ

            Stella will only be stuck off if there is a complaint made and if what she is saying is true- that nobody has died- then ‘I would like to complain about my doctor saving my life’ would be a very peculiar complaint.

            Also- Simone Gold said that chemists were refusing to fill the prescriptions- don’t you find that strange? Since when did chemists have the authority to overrule doctor’s decisions?

          4. Nigel

            If her alien DNA and demon sperm and HCQ theories prove to be true, then yes, it would be odd if she were to get struck off.

          5. SOQ

            You do realise that permanently injected ‘alien DNA’ means from animals- not little green men right?

          6. Nigel

            And the demon sperm is just a doctor medical way of saying drinking too much milk before bedtime.

  4. Micko

    Here’s a weird one for ya.

    I just used the Wayback machine on the hydroxychloroquine page on Wikipedia.

    The current live wiki page looks very different to the one from March 2020 – doesn’t go back any further than this date.

    This entire section has been added in as well as mild symptoms being upgraded:

    “Serious reported neuropsychiatric adverse effects of hydroxychloroquine use include agitation, mania, difficulty sleeping, hallucinations, psychosis, catatonia, paranoia, depression, and suicidal thoughts.[4] In rare situations, hydroxychloroquine has been implicated in cases of serious skin reactions such as Stevens–Johnson syndrome, toxic epidermal necrolysis, and Drug reaction with eosinophilia and systemic symptoms.[4] Reported blood abnormalities with its use include lymphopenia, eosinophilia, and atypical lymphocytosis.[4]”

    Also, ‘Side Effect’ has been changed to ‘Adverse effects”

    Obv, anyone can edit a wiki page, but it does seem really weird that someone would add in much more harmful side effects.

    Go check it yourself.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200321171632/https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine

    Not suggesting a grand conspiracy, but it does seem odd…

    1. Cian

      You can go directly to the original version of that page on Wikipedia (and indeed, every edit since – unless Wikipedia are part of a global NWO conspiracy) – you don’t need webarchive

      24 July 2005 (new medical stub).
      Hydroxychloroquine is an antimalarial also used to reduce inflammation and treat arthritis and lupus.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hydroxychloroquine&oldid=19493711

      Side effects first appeared in 2 November 2006 :

      Side Effects
      Side effects are difficult to anticipate, and should be reported to a doctor immediately if new symptoms develop or old symptoms change in intensity. Generally side effects are not common, but can include (for short-term treatment of acute malaria) abdominal cramps, diarrhea, heart problems, reduced appetite, headache, nausea and vomiting. The symptoms for prolonged treatment of lupus or arthritis include the acute symptoms, plus altered eye pigmentation, acne, anemia, bleaching of hair, blisters in mouth and eyes, blood disorders, convulsions, significant vision difficulties, diminished reflexes, emotional changes, excessive coloring of the skin, hearing loss, hives, itching, liver problems or failure, loss of hair, muscle paralysis, weakness or atrophy, nightmares, psoriasis, reading difficulties, tinitus, skin inflammation and scaling, skin rash, vertigo, and weight loss. Hydroxychloroquine can worsen existing cases of both psoriasis and porphyria. The most common side effects are a mild nausea and occasional stomach cramps with mild diarrhea. The most serious side effect is a rare toxicity in the eye (generally with chronic use), and requires regular monitoring even when symptom-free. A type of enzyme deficiency (enzyme G6PD) found most frequently in those of African descent can develop into severe anemia and should also be monitored. Children are more sensitive to Plaquenil than adults are, and small doses can be potentially fatal.

      Hydroxychloroquine generally does not have significant interactions with other medications[citation needed] but care should be taken if combined with medication altering liver function as well as Aurothioglucose (Solganal), Cimetidine (Tagamet) or Digoxin (Lanoxin). It will transfer into breastmilk and should be used with care by pregnant or nursing mothers.

      1. Micko

        Cool. Didn’t know you could do that. Cheers

        There’s been about 800 edits on that page since about March.

        Impossible to tell what’s real anymore

      2. Micko

        Actually a bit weird that “agitation, mania, difficulty sleeping, hallucinations, psychosis, catatonia, paranoia, depression, and suicidal thoughts” are not listed under rare side effect but listed as just serious.

        I suppose there’s just two opposing sides of people on Wiki editing the living sh!te out of that page at the mo.

      1. MO

        Had a look at the “sentinel” channel on BitChute.

        Not sure this is any better than the previous YouTube user – this channel has:
        5G, Bill Gates, PEDOGATE, Plandemic, David Icke, The Masons, Illuminati…

        Only saving grace so far – haven’t found any Flat Earth videos!

        1. SOQ

          It is published on at least four channels on Bitchute if you had to be bothered to check- of this video sentinel just happens to be the most watched.

          Do you own research next time maybe?

          1. MO

            Fair enough.

            Asked for another source, as first source had a bunch of looney videos.

            You supplied one, I checked out the other videos from that source, they also have a bunch of looney videos.

            Guess I’m kinda new to this “research” thing.

            Anyways, the “America Frontline Doctors” had it’s own website briefly today (it’s now simply giving a SquareSpace – Website expired notice) with a 3 hour video of a press conference which was a dozy!

            Suffice to say – it seems sunlight is the best disinfectant for their claims (and the virus as it goes)!

  5. Mary (Never) Wong

    Doctors really do differ, and patients die.
    Freedom of speech is a real pain in the hole sometimes.

    1. Rosette of Sirius

      Nah. It’s the consequences that stupid people have to live with when they say stupid things… They really, really don’t like that.

  6. Vanessanelle

    Not sure if this is the place
    but maybe the local Trumperstars and Qanon_anon_anons prowling around here might like to weigh in on this:
    (Judd Legum)

    With the pandemic raging and unemployment well above 10%, Congress is rushing to pass another relief bill. Extended unemployment assistance will expire in days, millions are at imminent risk of eviction, and there are still major backlogs in COVID-19 testing.

    But the top priority for the White House and Senate Republicans is not economic relief or improving testing to slow the spread of the virus. The top priority is to grant businesses near-total immunity if they expose their workers or customers to COVID-19. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has repeatedly said the Senate will not vote on any bill that doesn’t include a liability shield for businesses.

    Looking forward to hearing from ye, ta, V

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