I wonder will we soon start to see the likes of the Irish Times floating these ideas out too?
Gerry
Read it, good idea.
The best thing about the proposal in the article is that only those with medical contraindications would be allowed to opt out, there would be no idiots freeloading on the general herd immunity while contributing nothing.
Also the proposal is that it be free.
As for the Irish Times promoting a similar idea, I hope so.
Civil war, lol.
Sirtuffyknight
You honestly think forcibly injecting people with a rushed-through vaccine (of which the long-term consequences can’t possibly be known, and for which pharmaceutical companies are already indemnified against potential lawsuits) is a good thing?
SOQ
And once more for the slow learners- vaccine ≠ herd immunity.
Cian
If 99% of the population gets a vaccine this provides herd immunity to the other 1%.
A vaccine in itself isn’t herd immunity but it provides herd immunity when taken by the herd.
If I am a slow learner – can you explain what I’m missing.
Junkface
+1 Cian!
This is how it worked for Smallpox, Polio, Measles. It has been recorded scientifically and historically, anyone who tells otherwise does not have an accurate understanding of vaccines. I blame social media
Cian
It is interesting. I don’t know if it would be constitutionally sound to force vaccines.
Perhaps they/we should have a referendum on this question of mandatory vaccination – and then go with the majority. It could even be done as a we need 60% (or 75% or 85%) to vote yes to pass this.
The Old Boy
You would have to have a referendum to amend Article 47 to allow for amendment of the Constitution by super-majority voting first.
Cian
If mandatory vaccination isn’t unconstitutional then it wouldn’t be a referendum per se – as it wouldn’t need to change the constitution it would be a plebiscite and they could set any limits.
SOQ
Meanwhile in France, Dr. Raoult- he who conducted the first hydroxychloroquine trails, has received death treats.
He filed a complaint with the police, and a medical doctor from a Nantes university hospital was identified as the culprit.
This ‘gentleman’ was then proven to receive substantial funding from Gilead pharmaceuticals who are touting their drug remdesivir as a potential option to treat the disease.
Dirty doesn’t even begin to describe it all.
Cian
If we can’t trust medical doctors then who can we trust?
SOQ
Threatening to kill each other doesn’t exactly inspire confidence now does it?
Your Home Correspondent
First person to say “dumb bell”….
GiggidyGoo
Is that his age written on the dumbbell end?
Janet, dreams of big guns
my Ma can lift heavier than that
f_lawless
Dr Ron Daniels, ICU consultant for the NHS talking some sense on BBC Newsnight
Thanks dav, for providing a perfect illustration of the point made by Dr. Daniels:-
“We’ve got to look at all of the data rather than any one dataset in isolation”
“What we can’t do is consider the two entities completely in isolation (ie. a rise in cases after a rise in testing & a continued trend in near zero deaths and hospitalisations)
Tucked away at the end of that Journal article: “five further deaths. Four of the newly recorded deaths are from April and June”. but the article gives no consideration as to how this changes the context of a rise in case numbers.
SOQ
That is just common sense.
The more testing the more cases which only proves that the fatality rate is way lower than estimated. And, when they say ‘test’ one assumes they are only testing for live virus, not anti bodies and certainly not t cells.
This all reminds of the scare around MRSA- a big killer infection- except it turned out that many people were infected with MRSA who never even knew.
f_lawless
Have you seen this 2007 NY Times article before? The parallels are amazing.
@f_lawless
how is that article in any way relevant to COVID?
Are you suggesting that the COVID test is faulty and nobody really has it?
GiggidyGoo
A major cluster was at a cooked meat plant in Offaly. Meats (cooked at the plant) are then chilled and sent out to retail outlets.
Covid-19 survives longer on surfaces that are cooler. Doesn’t that bring into question the safety of these ready to eat meats coming from a plant with a cluster, major or minor?
dav
Is this your speculation? or is their any evidence that people can catch covid from Cooked (and lets be clear everybody cooks meat at 180 C+) meat.
GiggidyGoo
Im questioning whether, after the meat has been cooked in the factory, and it’s then chilled in the factory, whether and transfer of the virus can happen after the chilling process, The meat is sliced when cool, and it’s distributed when chilled.
Questioning is different than speculation.
Nigel
Have you tried Giggidygoogle?
GiggidyGoo
Naw – I tried that other mine of information NigelyWigely, but as usual it came up blank.
Nigel
Some prefer DuckDuckGoogiddy.
Janet, dreams of big guns
I have had Brady’s ham, partial to a toastie, no sign of contamination so far
Brother Barnabas
jesus, janet, no
scottser
Keep your togs on and your wits about ye.
Janet, dreams of big guns
I’ll keep ya posted …
goldenbrown
Janet, ditch the Brady’s ham
look out for Horgans Blacky Ham, it’s another league
Janet, dreams of big guns
thanks for the tip ! I normally go to the butchers but got drenched yesterday and dived into my nemesis of a shop, Tesco
goldenbrown
most Supervalu’s have it now in the sliced pack, a smidge dearer but you more than get what you pay for. if you’re down Cork direction I’ve also seen fillets of it for sale you could slice yourself
it’s done German style, old school slightly smoked, drier and not as rubbery as the rest
Janet, dreams of big guns
sounds good !
GiggidyGoo
You must have got the cured version.
Mary (Never) Wong
Surprised you haven’t zeroed in on the direct provision angle at Brady’s Ham
GiggidyGoo
Says the child, zeroing in on one of his favorite topics. Toddle along lad. You just keep proving me correct.
class wario
why do the government continue to shrug their shoulders when it comes to virus clusters in meat factories/DP centres? why is it still being couched in terms of individual responsibility and not below par working conditions and exploitative bosses?
Janet, dreams of big guns
because they are a shower of self serving egomaniac cu*ya,
I think this is an answer that works for most questions asking why Ireland is driven like a spluttering overcrowded bus full of chickens and people with travel sickness by a drunk monk around the bends of a hymalayan mountain
The three rescued trafficked lads in North Cork recently (found shoplifting through hunger) had their wages going to the suspected criminal from yet another meat factory. Some 30 workers crammed into a house . Cead mile failte to Ireland eh.
SOQ
And that is the other side of the immigration debate- every dodgy money hungry scumbag has homed in on the exploitation of those people. I know the WRC is very active in this area but that is only with the outfits they know about.
You’d think all these food safety inspectors and Bord Bia quality mark Examiners
And I suppose big retail buyers too
Would have something to say about the welfare of staff engaged by these brands
How is it that all these external observers and regulators are more interested in how clean the floors are than they are about the health and wellbeing of the factory floor staff
Maybe it’s just me
But I think that’s just as important a quality check as how compliant their packaging room is
I wonder how much Microsoft are paying Trump for TikTok.
It’ll be interesting to see how all his debt disappears after he loses in nov
What an article. I think it could ignite a civil war in the US if they actually try to implement this plan
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/08/06/stop-coronavirus-compulsory-universal-vaccination-column/3289948001/
I wonder will we soon start to see the likes of the Irish Times floating these ideas out too?
Read it, good idea.
The best thing about the proposal in the article is that only those with medical contraindications would be allowed to opt out, there would be no idiots freeloading on the general herd immunity while contributing nothing.
Also the proposal is that it be free.
As for the Irish Times promoting a similar idea, I hope so.
Civil war, lol.
You honestly think forcibly injecting people with a rushed-through vaccine (of which the long-term consequences can’t possibly be known, and for which pharmaceutical companies are already indemnified against potential lawsuits) is a good thing?
And once more for the slow learners- vaccine ≠ herd immunity.
If 99% of the population gets a vaccine this provides herd immunity to the other 1%.
A vaccine in itself isn’t herd immunity but it provides herd immunity when taken by the herd.
If I am a slow learner – can you explain what I’m missing.
+1 Cian!
This is how it worked for Smallpox, Polio, Measles. It has been recorded scientifically and historically, anyone who tells otherwise does not have an accurate understanding of vaccines. I blame social media
It is interesting. I don’t know if it would be constitutionally sound to force vaccines.
Perhaps they/we should have a referendum on this question of mandatory vaccination – and then go with the majority. It could even be done as a we need 60% (or 75% or 85%) to vote yes to pass this.
You would have to have a referendum to amend Article 47 to allow for amendment of the Constitution by super-majority voting first.
If mandatory vaccination isn’t unconstitutional then it wouldn’t be a referendum per se – as it wouldn’t need to change the constitution it would be a plebiscite and they could set any limits.
Meanwhile in France, Dr. Raoult- he who conducted the first hydroxychloroquine trails, has received death treats.
He filed a complaint with the police, and a medical doctor from a Nantes university hospital was identified as the culprit.
This ‘gentleman’ was then proven to receive substantial funding from Gilead pharmaceuticals who are touting their drug remdesivir as a potential option to treat the disease.
Dirty doesn’t even begin to describe it all.
If we can’t trust medical doctors then who can we trust?
Threatening to kill each other doesn’t exactly inspire confidence now does it?
First person to say “dumb bell”….
Is that his age written on the dumbbell end?
my Ma can lift heavier than that
Dr Ron Daniels, ICU consultant for the NHS talking some sense on BBC Newsnight
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hbso02qqT8E&feature=youtu.be
and in the real world
https://www.thejournal.ie/kildare-laois-offally-cases-covid-19-coronavirus-5169848-Aug2020/
Thanks dav, for providing a perfect illustration of the point made by Dr. Daniels:-
“We’ve got to look at all of the data rather than any one dataset in isolation”
“What we can’t do is consider the two entities completely in isolation (ie. a rise in cases after a rise in testing & a continued trend in near zero deaths and hospitalisations)
Tucked away at the end of that Journal article: “five further deaths. Four of the newly recorded deaths are from April and June”. but the article gives no consideration as to how this changes the context of a rise in case numbers.
That is just common sense.
The more testing the more cases which only proves that the fatality rate is way lower than estimated. And, when they say ‘test’ one assumes they are only testing for live virus, not anti bodies and certainly not t cells.
This all reminds of the scare around MRSA- a big killer infection- except it turned out that many people were infected with MRSA who never even knew.
Have you seen this 2007 NY Times article before? The parallels are amazing.
“Faith in Quick Test Leads to Epidemic That Wasn’t”
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/health/22whoop.html
@f_lawless
how is that article in any way relevant to COVID?
Are you suggesting that the COVID test is faulty and nobody really has it?
A major cluster was at a cooked meat plant in Offaly. Meats (cooked at the plant) are then chilled and sent out to retail outlets.
Covid-19 survives longer on surfaces that are cooler. Doesn’t that bring into question the safety of these ready to eat meats coming from a plant with a cluster, major or minor?
Is this your speculation? or is their any evidence that people can catch covid from Cooked (and lets be clear everybody cooks meat at 180 C+) meat.
Im questioning whether, after the meat has been cooked in the factory, and it’s then chilled in the factory, whether and transfer of the virus can happen after the chilling process, The meat is sliced when cool, and it’s distributed when chilled.
Questioning is different than speculation.
Have you tried Giggidygoogle?
Naw – I tried that other mine of information NigelyWigely, but as usual it came up blank.
Some prefer DuckDuckGoogiddy.
I have had Brady’s ham, partial to a toastie, no sign of contamination so far
jesus, janet, no
Keep your togs on and your wits about ye.
I’ll keep ya posted …
Janet, ditch the Brady’s ham
look out for Horgans Blacky Ham, it’s another league
thanks for the tip ! I normally go to the butchers but got drenched yesterday and dived into my nemesis of a shop, Tesco
most Supervalu’s have it now in the sliced pack, a smidge dearer but you more than get what you pay for. if you’re down Cork direction I’ve also seen fillets of it for sale you could slice yourself
it’s done German style, old school slightly smoked, drier and not as rubbery as the rest
sounds good !
You must have got the cured version.
Surprised you haven’t zeroed in on the direct provision angle at Brady’s Ham
Says the child, zeroing in on one of his favorite topics. Toddle along lad. You just keep proving me correct.
why do the government continue to shrug their shoulders when it comes to virus clusters in meat factories/DP centres? why is it still being couched in terms of individual responsibility and not below par working conditions and exploitative bosses?
because they are a shower of self serving egomaniac cu*ya,
I think this is an answer that works for most questions asking why Ireland is driven like a spluttering overcrowded bus full of chickens and people with travel sickness by a drunk monk around the bends of a hymalayan mountain
The three rescued trafficked lads in North Cork recently (found shoplifting through hunger) had their wages going to the suspected criminal from yet another meat factory. Some 30 workers crammed into a house . Cead mile failte to Ireland eh.
And that is the other side of the immigration debate- every dodgy money hungry scumbag has homed in on the exploitation of those people. I know the WRC is very active in this area but that is only with the outfits they know about.
You’d think all these food safety inspectors and Bord Bia quality mark Examiners
And I suppose big retail buyers too
Would have something to say about the welfare of staff engaged by these brands
How is it that all these external observers and regulators are more interested in how clean the floors are than they are about the health and wellbeing of the factory floor staff
Maybe it’s just me
But I think that’s just as important a quality check as how compliant their packaging room is
This went under the Broadsheet radar
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/profit-up-90-at-irish-daily-mail-owner-1.4322523?mode=amp
The restructures mentioned don’t really square off with me
Well not + 90% worth anyway
Anyone?
Like just how costly were the few staffers let go that released that much back into the P& L
Maybe they renegotiated their rent
I dunno
But would love to
deleted again in 3, 2,1 ?
Huh?
Did I miss something?
must be an Android glitch I thought the first time you put this up it disappeared :)