132 thoughts on “Saturday’s Papers

  1. f_lawless

    Why is the Daily Mail giving front page billing to the “Top Irish Scientists” still pushing for a “Zero Covid Island” policy? Considering that all along they’ve been holding up New Zealand as an exemplar of what we can achieve,. the rising cases there in the last few days have exposed those group of scientists to be dangerously deluded.

    Amazingly they’re still clinging to the idea: According Prof Anthony Staines a couple of days ago:

    “New Zealand has demonstrated that the virus can come back but the difference between what has happened in New Zealand and what has happened here is that the virus has come back in one place.

    They seem relatively confident they know where the virus came from and they are ready to start driving it back down to zero in that area while the rest of the country continues with very limited restrictions.” Hmm, they ‘seem relatively confident’, do they?

    Is that the road we want to continue to go down indefinitely? Severley restricted from the outside world. All living in fear that the slightest detection of any new cases will get us sent into lockdown again or maybe even get us sent off to quarantine camps like is now happening in New Zealand?

    At least UK Professor Carl Heneghan was allowed talk some sense at the recent Oireachtas Covid Committee hearing:

    “Any comparisons between Ireland and New Zealand are unhelpful. Ireland is much more densely populated than New Zealand . New Zealand’s nearest neighbour, Australia, is over a 1000km away. and is also one of the least densely populated countries in the world.”
    Clip:
    https://kfmradio.com/news/13082020-1740/listen-oxford-prof-says-compare-ireland-new-zealand-terms-covid-19-unhelpful

    1. bisted

      …I’m glad you explained to me that it was my imagination when I pointed out that you seemed to denigrate scientists because they were Irish rather than proper Oxford Professors like Carl Hennington…

      1. f_lawless

        You’re welcome. It’s the one’s that don’t change their position as new evidence emerges and get stuck in tunnel vision -whatever the nationality – that I find less convincing. Dr Marcus de Brun and Dr Dolores Cahill are two Irish health experts I think have been talking some sense. I’m not aware of any others who take a similar stance – at least publicly – but I’d be grateful if someone could point me in the direction of more

        1. Cian

          Have either Dr Marcus de Brun or Dr Dolores Cahill changed their position as evidence emerges?

          I’m prerry sure the Irish gov have changed their focus and position as new evidence emerges and situations changed.

        2. SOQ

          I like de Brun- bit of a rambler but makes some very astute points.

          Cahill definitely has some scientific bullets to fire but she needs to boot out that nasty Kelly character as I doubt that even his mother loved him- which would explain a lot.

          I would be more towards the analytics myself- how can you have a once in a life time mad viral pandemic while also a substantial reduction in overall fatalities?

          I don’t care who you are- just explain that fact to me.

          1. f_lawless

            A fair point SOQ, Cahilll has the scientific credentials but I’m wouldn’t necessarily go along with all her political interpretation of events. Irishman Ivor Cummins is a good man for the data analysis.

            Which emerging evidence are you referring to Cian? From what I can see, the Irish government and health officials remain doggedly tied to the narrative that only a tiny percentage of the population have ever been exposed to the virus. This is a fundamental issue. They cite studies which have shown a low prevalence in antibodies to back up this claim but willfully ignore evidence that has continued to emerge for some time now about the other ways in which the body can deal with the virus without SarsCov2 antibodies such as T-cell immunity responses and pre-existing cross-immunity from prior exposure to other coronaviruses .

            The problem is that to entertain any notion that widespread exposure already occurred prior to the imposition of the blanket lockdown, would imply that the lockdown was a colossal policy error.

    2. Formerly Known As @ireland.com

      Elimination is the right option for NZ. I am in Australia and I hope it can happen here. Otherwise, life will not return to something close to normal. Ireland is different. As much as I think it would be great to aim for zero there, I am not sure it is realistic. Masks for everyone outside their home might be a good idea. Melbourne is doing that.

    3. SOQ

      We currently have a situation which is described as a casedemic rather than a pandemic meaning the number of cases are rising but NO Fatalities, NO ICU admittance and NO Hospitalizations- just positive test results on healthy people.

      Governments- including our own- introducing lockdowns on such questionable data without a reasonable explanation, will pee people off very quickly.

      I can’t find the details as yet but apparently there is a piece in The Telegraph suggesting that people should now boycott testing altogether. No tests means no second wave means no more lock downs.

      If that happens it will bring a new level of cynicism and distrust because if overall fatality rates do not reflect what we were told was a deadly disease, and a ‘second wave’ means nobody is getting sick anymore- the whole thing just does not make any rational sense.

      1. Cian

        We know what you think Ireland shouldn’t do: no masks, no testing. Turn it around.

        What should Ireland do? Ignore COVID and go back to normal? It’s just a seasonal virus.

      2. goldenbrown

        SOQ not having a go just want to understand…

        is it your contention that we should stop all the restrictions, policy and policing around Covid, revert to snapshot 2019 and effectively “let the weak perish”

        ?

        1. SOQ

          People are questioning these figures because on any level, they just don’t make sense. In June, SAGE advised the British government that there is a PCR 5% margin of error which means that if you test enough people- some are guaranteed to return false positives.

          In other words- on paper, CoVid-19 will never go away.

          So right now, health officials can walk into any town or village and create a cluster with subsequent lock down, even though there is a district possibility that nobody actually has a live infection.

          That can only continue for so long before people stop playing the game.

          1. SOQ

            @ sidhe I assumed we had all got to a time where it is accepted that shielding the vulnerable is what works, not locking down the healthy- which they did not do.

            In fact they went further- and placed symptomatic patients in nursing homes which was tantamount to euthanasia.

          2. goldenbrown

            SOQ
            see my response below to f_lawless

            tell me how precisely you will ascertain who is vulnerable and who is not?

          3. SOQ

            @ goldenbrown

            Actually in comparison to a lot of viruses, this one is relatively easy because the vulnerable groups were known very early on. The most obvious being where risk equaled age. The second was known commonalities like diabetes, heart, lungs etc. The third, which appeared later, was weight or in particular BMI.

            And, as per near all illnesses, there are exceptions to the rule but, the viral load that someone receives appears to be quite an important factor and possibly also exposure to other corona virus in the past.

            It is worth pointing out that none of these factors influenced if someone became infected (as far as we know)- just what happened once they became infected.

            So a common sense question in return- if this thing is as deadly as we are told, why has Ireland got 1700 deaths LESS than in 2018 for the same Jan – May YTD period?

          4. Clampers Outside

            On the vulnerable list: Vitamin D deficient persons, as I understand it, should be on that list.
            (Happy to be corrected if latest updates show VitD is not an issue, but to my knowledge it is important in fighting the virus)

          5. Cian

            As before, that pdf doesn’t say what you are saying.

            It is saying “worst case” is 5%. But we will know that the real false positive is much much lower.

          6. MacGafraidh

            SOQ.. For the love of God take a day off.
            “So right now, health officials can walk into any town or village and create a cluster with subsequent lock down, even though there is a district possibility that nobody actually has a live infection.”

            Are you trying to imply you don’t think covid exists based upon a margin of error which leaves the number of actual cases inaccurate?

            This country isn’t going to ‘stop playing the game’.. Would you give over your nonsense.

            ‘people are questioning these figures’ yeah you and your conspiracy theory mates, nobody else.

          7. SOQ

            @ Cian- “RT-PCR tests are highly sensitive, but can show false negatives (giving a negative result for a person infected with COVID-19) and false positives (giving a positive result for a person not infected with COVID-19).

            This means that under laboratory conditions, these RT-PCR tests should never show more than 5% false positives or 5% false negatives.

            It is important to remember that laboratory testing verifies the analytical sensitivity and analytical specificity of the RT-PCR tests. They represent idealised testing. In a clinical or community setting there may be inefficient sampling, lab contamination, sample degradation or other sources of error that will lead to increased numbers of false positives or false negatives.

            The diagnostic sensitivity and diagnostic specificity of a test can only be measured in operational conditions
            The UK operational false positive rate is unknown. There are no published studies on the operational false positive rate of any national COVID-19 testing programme.”

            So- lab test errors ARE up 5% but could be more in operational field settings. To talk about unspecified worse case scenarios is unscientific- either the test is accurate or it is not- and if not- by how much.

            @MacGafraidh- Are you trying to imply you don’t think covid exists based upon a margin of error which leaves the number of actual cases inaccurate?

            ALL virology test have a margin of error- I repeat- ALL VIROLOGY TESTS HAVE A MARGIN OF ERROR. The difference being that for most- large towns, cities and even counties are not placed under house arrest.

            If this current situation continues where cases continue to be reported but nobody is dying, entering ICU or even just being hospitalised- meaning they are not sick- you can be certain that people are going to start asking why their lives are being ruined.

            We are in very strange times when questioning why during a ‘pandemic’ we have the lowest YTD fatality rate in FOUR YEARS- makes you a conspiracy theorist.

            Please just stop with the lazy high handed dismissals and answer the question- why is the overall YTD fatality rate so much lower than normal?

        2. f_lawless

          @goldenbrown

          I think it’s a misconception to see any herd immunity related strategy as meaning “letting the virus openly rip” through society and killing off the most vulnerable.

          On the contrary, the end goal of the strategy would be to protect the elderly and high-risk groups from the virus. It would involve letting those most at risk take the decision to withdraw somewhat from society – or if they’re incapacitated, the decision can be made for them – until herd immunity builds up among those who are least at risk from the virus while at the same time society is kept afloat.

          I’m not sure what you mean by “revert to snapshot 2019”. We know that a large number of the most vulnerable in society, those living in nursing homes, have already been exposed to the virus., tragically causing a high number of deaths. But one consequence of that is that the virus isn’t causing the same death rate as before.

          Also the case that widespread community transmission of the virus had already occurred, though undetected, before lockdowns were ever put in place is only getting stronger as new evidence emerges. And because its now known that prior exposure to other coronaviruses can result in a certain level of cross-immunity to the novel virus, some experts are saying that if as little as 20-40% of the population are exposed to the virus and develop immunity, then that would be sufficient for the population at large to cross the herd immunity threshold.

          1. goldenbrown

            On the contrary, the end goal of the strategy would be to protect the elderly and high-risk groups from the virus

            but isn’t there a flaw in that argument too?

            how do you know whom is in a high-risk group exactly?

            I have personal knowledge of two younger reasonably fit people without a hint of trouble previously in their lives who are now longer term fupped because of C19 – one has developed something akin to ME, the other with a fairly serious heart issue. nothing outwardly concerning or underlying up to contracting it. I also know one other guy ended up in ICU and was nearly intubated (really not nice)

            so I would argue your strategy there, if it’s aim is to protect everyone is just every bit as utopian as a full man, woman and child lockdown because you and I have no smart way to identify who exactly is vulnerable in our population. it is indiscriminate in practical terms. yeah, if we all had some super smart physiology tech embedded in us then maybe it has the capability to succeed. but we don’t. shure prior to C19 ever coming onto to us our health service could barely support our citizens properly in the first place, like sick women with cervical cancer ffs? so what you’re looking at there practically speaking is something I think would be heavily reliant on new tech and eons off in the distance and would require a practical real change in our existing medical services that frankly I can’t ever see happening in my lifetime. HSE putting people’s health over money? yeah, right :) best effort basis.

            the only argument really is which strategy causes less death (and the fella or girl who figures that out properly is on for a Nobel prize), till then its Hobsons choice

            for me promoting natural Herd Immunity is an extremely nebulous, wide, general concept addressing matters at a macro level whilst (especially without the tools to manage it properly) sacrificing the individual level

            so I’m happy to stick with the masks and forget pubs, offices and even my precious gig attendances (at least I got to see Supergrass but I’ve lost 6 paid for alone this year and it really hurts) until such a time as the ONLY answer comes along – a reliable proven vaccine.

          2. f_lawless

            “I have personal knowledge of …”
            I’m sorry those people had that experience but when it comes to setting a national health policy, I don’t think anecdotes are a sound way to assess what the of level risk is to the population at large. I’m not saying it should be simply dismissed but is there any statistical information you can direct me to that establishes that serious long term health damage is a significant trend among the young and healthy? Here’s a link to some statistical data for Covid-19 in Ireland. to date.

            https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries9/
            This is notable:
            ” Of the 112 deaths in the 25-64 age group, 104 had underlying conditions.”
            Only 112 deaths in the under 65s. Only 8 deaths had no diagnosed underlying condition.

            You say: “the only argument really is which strategy causes less death (and the fella or girl who figures that out properly is on for a Nobel prize),”
            I think this is a dangerous mindset to adopt. ie – preventing deaths from the virus is what now matters above everything else. Never mind the importance of preserving the things in society that bring joy to people and make life worthwhile, its becoming apparent that the lockdown policies imposed by governments are likely set to cause many more deaths than the virus itself. For example, the UK anticipates as many as 35,000 extra deaths in the next year of cancer sufferers who went.undiagnosed. It’s bound to be a similar story in Ireland. And the UN have recently estimated that 300,000 people in the developing world could die from hunger every day for several months mainly due to the knock-on effects of lockdowns imposed in the developed world.

            ” I’m happy to stick with (shutdowns) until such a time as the ONLY answer comes along – a reliable proven vaccine”

            Considering that in the US, the FDA has has set the efficacy threshold as low as 50% for a Covid-19 vaccine to qualify for market (it’s likely to be similar here in Europe), this is all the more reason that a natural immunity strategy involving the least at risk is necessary. The vaccine, if it ever arrives, likely wouldn’t be effective enough to bring a population to the herd immunity threshold on its own and would rely on a significant portion of people having acquired natural immunity.

          3. goldenbrown

            f_lawless…just to come back to u on a couple of items there

            “I don’t think anecdotes are a sound way to assess what the of level risk is to the population at large”

            re. the anecdotal. yup anecdotes but frankly for me as an individual person that’s a reasonable compass to operate off. moreso its the GRAVITY we confer to C19 is more where I was coming from – lookit I’m a typical middle aged bloke, I know maybe 250 people well at this stage in my life be it work, play, family whatever, the ones who will turn up to the funeral y’know. I don’t think I’m particularly lucky or unlucky person. I personally know of 2 cases who have contracted C19 that have suffered far reaching consequences beyond a mere chest infection/dose. what I’m getting at is there ARE many cases out there now where the results are not death but debilitation of healthy non-underlying condition non-elderly people and nobody that I can see is counting that….if your Govt produced stats that showed that 2 in every 250 healthy people get crippled from it I wonder where your thinking would be at then? there’s more going on here than deaths. imo we just don’t understand C19’s reach fully as yet.

            re. the vaccine. trust me, I won’t be shovelling the first vaccine or drug into me that comes along cos it’s FDA approved, I wrote “relaible” there deliberately and no the numbers you stated don’t cut it, do they. I was raised never to trust version 1.0 of anything. I have only one word for well-intentioned misadventure with biopharm – Thalidomide. but we can engineer one that works properly well for everyone, I do have faith in that.

            lookit the way I see this whole thing is we are at war. it’s not a war with conventional weapons and armies. it’s a war with a pathogen that has been deployed against us either by nature itself or by some nefarious actor, I’ll reserve my own thoughts on that one but if you have ever worked in any secops or state security role you could be having similar thoughts. I don’t think it’s right to appease it, now we have to devote every penny and bead of sweat to crush it (or whatever greased it’s wheels). suspend normal life, keep printing the money to keep the show on the road while we figure out the vaccine, classic capitalism is certainly dead now anyway.

        1. SOQ

          ANOTHER new username eh? I suppose you do need to keep shape shifting when your intent is to make personal barbs.

          1. SOQ

            Bodger- can you confirm that I do not post on this site under any other name? Tnx.

            You are barking up the wrong tree V.

          2. AKA Frilly Keane

            I was actually pointing out how easily you contradict yourself with your own hypocrisy Same’oh
            your intent is to make personal barbs

            I’m pretty sure that was obvious

            But go on – go crying to teacher

          3. AKA Frilly Keane

            Actually
            I don’t find some of stuff you’ve posted here
            Nor your false accusations
            Or Doxxing
            Funny at all

            But have at it
            I’m confident everyone here has witnessed you in all your moods

          4. Aon duine

            Hand on my heart, I’m not recycling usernames. But the unfounded accusation does chime with a mind whose very first instinct is to be suspicious. And that is how your posts now read. Irrational distrust of an authority. A small amount of distrust is healthy but it is plain to see you’re straying into Gemma territory.
            You don’t listen to reason on this topic. When others have pointed out the gaping flaws in your pronouncements you just ignore them, fingers in the ears, head in the sand, just like a Michael Jackson fan.

          5. Janet, dreams of big guns

            Really, you just popped up on this new name but already have an informed opinion about a regular user ? How does that work ?

          6. SOQ

            @ Janet- it doesn’t- which proves how disingenuous this person actually is.

            @V- you are accusing me of doxxing? Of whom?

          7. AKA Frilly Keane

            Not like you to be so shy Same’oh
            You weren’t like that two years ago

            Or to let on you don’t know everything about everything

            Given you must be exhausted managing your different moods
            I’ll drop you one
            Remember you were so determined to prove that I was also posting as Johnny NY, who I call Johnny Hamptons, aka Johnny Green
            And rounded up some troops – some very interesting individuals, weren’t they

            Why don’t you take it from there Same’oh

            Or maybe you’d like to have another run at saying I’m one of the mods around here

            Or there’s always your porno links

            Have at it boy

            You’ve already done your worst

          8. Mary (Never) Wong

            I agree with V
            Ever notice the most genuinely disturbed folks in here start playing the usernames card as soon as they get some opportunity?

          9. SOQ

            @ ok well V- firstly that is most definitely not the definition of doxxing- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxing

            As for something I may or may not have said two years ago- knock yourself out- I probably won’t remember from two weeks ago let alone anything else.

            Anyways- back on topic- its not all about you dear.

          10. SOQ

            Oh and as for the porno links- cheap shot darling- either pee in the evidence pot, or get off.

            I am wondering why you are now taking shots at all of course.

          11. GiggidyGoo

            Listen. SOQ and myself had a few run-ins here – maybe 4-5 months ago. I put it down to joining and getting used to BS and the way commenters (myself included) can go for the jugular here under anonymity.

            SOQ however has ignited debate here on Covid, only to be attacked (in my view, unfairly). He has backed up his views with reference to views of various educated people in the field. On the other hand, many of his attackers don’t back up their attacks. and prefer to try to bully.

            He rarely responds with a similar attack.

            So, folks, how about refraining from attacking him. If you have alternative views, then let’s hear them, with as much back-up as SOQ provides to his.

            (I can see this post been copied by Cian for use in 2021)

          12. Clampers Outside

            Hear, hear Giggidy!

            I enjoy SOQ and F_Lawless’s contributions on COVID.

            I don’t always agree with either but both contribute sincerely from what I’ve seen.

            Again, well said Giggidy!

          13. Cian

            @GiggidyGoo
            many of his attackers don’t back up their attacks. and prefer to try to bully

            just out of curiosity – am I included in the “bully” category?

            PS I have all your posts auto-archived at this point.

          14. SOQ

            @ Cian- just out of curiosity- two questions

            How are you auto- archiving comments on a third party site?

            Why are you auto- archiving comments on a third party site?

            I am sure I am not the only one who would like an answer to these questions because your statement of intent has quite sinister undertones.

            It became quite obvious to me some weeks ago that you were independently recording my own comments.

          15. Clampers Outside

            I’m sure he was being funny / sarcastic on the archiving comment :)
            As I said above, I enjoy your contributions on this topic and your links haven been great, thanks.

          16. MacGafraidh

            What is your definition of normal and what are you trying to compare these fatality rates to first of all?

            I understand about the margin of error. Though I have no doubt that the professionals (not you and I) take that into consideration in terms of the plan of attack. A small margin of error doesn’t mean the real cases don’t exist and don’t have the potential to transmit to a vulnerable person and that’s what you want to see? Us not protecting the community’s health and allowing hospitalization and death before understanding that this is serious. One minute your for the vulnerable now you’re not?

            You, your thought process and your verbalization of your thoughts are a hazard. Whatever about the economy and people’s finances, health comes first. Your sweeping statements about ‘people’ have zero validation. You don’t speak for me, my family or my employees nor the Marjority of this country so stop with the sweeping statements. There are people who don’t want to go back to work,travel on public transport, be exposed to any potential risk however small it may be. There are people who want the country back on track and that’s fair enough but as long as there are hazardous people like yourself wanting to open up everything and are dead set against mask wearing, I’d rather the country stay closed whatever the impact.

            Also, masks do reduce transmission :
            https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083

          17. AKA Frilly Keane

            Same’oh
            What you aggravated and openly participated in against Johnny NY aka Green was absolutely 100% Doxxing

            And All the evidence of your beheaviour, from your anti- immigration, rants, to your, porno links, your lies and defaming, are all here
            On the good ship Broadsheet.ie
            Within historic threads

            And just for you as they resurface again under tags etc
            I will make a point of linking directly to you

            You’re welcome

  2. GiggidyGoo

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0814/1159255-retailer-seeking-to-reopen-some-debenhams-stores/
    So, is KPMG trying to pull a fast one with the Debenham workers. Putting it out there that an unnamed retailer wants to move into the Debenhams stores, but can’t do so until the Debenhams stock is removed. Mandate don’t seem to be biting at the moment.

    Simple – if the liquidator (KPMG) wants the pickets removed in order to have new tenants take on the stores, then pay the workers their entitlements. That would expedite the matter.

      1. Bottler

        Sun drenched Amalfi Coast or drizzle in Bundoran. If I was a higher civil servant with a guaranteed gold plated pension ……no contest.

          1. Janet, dreams of big guns

            I have no probs with him going on hols, it was the hypocritical nature of it that tickled me

          2. Janet, dreams of big guns

            well because he works for a state body and asks his staff and everyone else to adhere to the guidelines, the same state that cut covid payments for daring to do the same,
            personally I couldn’t give a flying if he went to the moon

          3. GiggidyGoo

            Back under your (never) identity I see. How are you going to make a show of yourself this time I wonder.

          4. Mary (Never) Wong

            Italy is in the Green List Janet
            He’s stuck to the guidelines
            His personal holiday was none of our concern

          5. Janet, dreams of big guns

            so were the countries everyone visited who has their covid payment or child welfare cut,
            I repeat I don’t care where he goes, but as an employee of the state I found the hypocrisy entertaining.

          6. GiggidyGoo

            Ha haaaa. Poor old Wong, trying desperately to become someone’s friend.
            Too many usernames there Wong.

          7. Mary (Never) Wong

            janet you do know he worked in Bord Failte not in DESP right? Straw man argument there

          8. Janet, dreams of big guns

            state employee, Failte makes a big song and dance about staff behavior optics in line with government edicts btw

          9. Mary O’Wong

            Janet I’m not aware of that – if that’s the case then it’s all the more reason he should be left alone to enjoy his own time. He would have been under enormous pressure the last few months with thousands of people who depend on him for leadership facing financial ruin. A break would have done him good away from the pearl clutchers and refreshes the brain for unprecedented challenges ahead. How he was dismissed here wasn’t fair, or wasn’t evidence based or due to non performing in his job, it was because a hating mob foamed at the mouth
            And you may be happy with living in a society like that but I am not

  3. Janet, dreams of big guns

    I’ll say one thing about The Star at least they celebrate wemon who look like they eat normally, figures your friends might have

  4. Johnny Green

    -I’m speechless. NYC is a beautifully diverse, working class, democratic city. The NYPD is clearly showing they are not interested in working with the people of our city. This explains their continued aggression against innocent people. It’s time for dramatic change.-Bowman.

    “The New York City Police Benevolent Association personally endorsed President Trump on Friday night for the next election as the commander in chief leans into his “law and order” platform.”
    https://nypost.com/2020/08/14/nypd-union-endorses-trump-nicknames-joe-biden-sleepy-joe/

    -“NYPD union endorsed Trump. I’m sure this is part of their neighborhood outreach plan.Also, does anyone else see a potential problem with police unions – enforcement arms of the state with lethal weapons – promoting “preferred” candidates for office or is that just me? -AOC.

      1. topsy

        Policemen should be apolitical and impartial in the exercise if their duties, however the Union can support whoever it wishes.

        4 more years.

        1. Johnny Green

          Mood in NY:

          -NYC taxpayers paid $300 million over the last five years alone to settle lawsuits for NYPD abuse & violence.
          -Everyone of the NYPD’s “white shirt” officers swinging batons, punching protestors, & ordering violence make at least $169,307/yr on average.
          -Thats $300 million total. And 3x times the program budget in NYC for mental health services for children & youth.
          -We’re paying $45 million in salaries for 500 new police to stop, ticket, and arrest people too poor to afford public transportation.
          -That’s enough money to pay for long term affordable, supportive housing for every one of the 2000+ homeless people living on the subway.

          h/t Hechinger.

    1. Mary (Never) Wong

      gaga
      The PBVA is just a way for Irishmen in NYC to continue to drive home drunk from Maggie Maes every night
      You’re also very quiet about your former fellow IRA fallen comrade Aaron Brady, Dessie O’Hare*?

      * attempt at Nordie humour :)

    1. Janet, dreams of big guns

      I’m not sure the sexual orientation has anything to do with their crime, aren’t those things independent of each other ?

      1. Janet, dreams of big guns

        maybe sexual orientation is the wrong term, gender or whatever is a separate issue ?

        1. Clampers Outside

          It’s the recording of the crime as being perpetrated by a woman is the issue.
          That’s the way this kinda bullpoo works. It’s mind bogglingly stupid stuff.
          This type reporting impacts female victims of male perpetrated crimes, and the research derived from them, as well as impacting male victims of females perpetrated crimes in that already there are questions, such as, “was it really a woman” /.”…really a man”. Nuts!

          1. Mary (Never) Wong

            Its your perpetual hatred of the people who are the victims of being gender non binary that is issue
            But yes you have Giggidy for male company
            ^sigh
            He had rejected me

  5. Susan

    Not that I’m complaining about the peace & quiet, but not a peep out of that sad old cliche Charger?

          1. Janet, dreams of big guns

            I always find the best way to tell actual people is by the way they engage in the funnier more humane threads, like music tastes for example, always the same folks missing off those, almost as if they had no human interest outside of their agendas ( Papi likes weird Japanese rap and frozen pizza btw)

          2. GiggidyGoo

            Yes, the Win Nicks Vouchers attracts pretty diverse people whose comments on other subjects could otherwise be enlightening. But as you say, the same people are always missing.
            Here is a favourite of mine, for all of those folks who post under many user names.
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NL6CDFn2i3I

          3. Mary (Never) Wong

            i like the music threads but you need a lot of time to listen to all the suggestions!
            Papi did have some good ones yesterday in fairness
            What I meant there was that this is all our online personas, we are all fake on this and say we are to meet up in real life, would be nothing like our online selves

          4. Janet, dreams of big guns

            oh I completely agree with that, I’d say there are some rescuing qualities in real life to the most irritating poster, but then again I like humans in general and I’m an optimist.

          5. Janet, dreams of big guns

            if it’s any help I’m pretty true to form, sex crazed liberal leftie who’s mad about running, history and poetry and weapons

        1. GiggidyGoo

          Think he said he was off to USA or Canada. It was Italy last year. But he’s not allowed i- thingies so is under the thumb for 2-3 weeks. No doubt the tank will be re-fueled and we will have a heralded return shortly.
          I actually miss him to be honest.

        2. Janet, dreams of big guns

          his missus has him on a leash, sure he only gets on line when she’s at work normally and he always has to sign out so he can have her sundowner ready when she gets home from work …:) ever read Wilt ?

          1. Susan

            @Janet
            Wilt! Now that takes me back to my childhood, Dad loved Tom Sharpe’s books, I read most them at a young age when I really shouldn’t have, they’d have you in tears of laughter-Riotous Assembly, Blott on the Landscape Indecent Exposure….can’t remember what book it was from -think it may have been from the Wilt series-but remember a scene where a blow up doll was excavated from a school car park, the gas trapped inside turned the poor dolls lady parts into a giant penis!!! Or some lad taking a box grater to his lad as he’d “applied” some ointment that was mislabelled….

            Man I really shouldn’t have been reading them at the ripe old age of ten……

          2. Janet, dreams of big guns

            I read them at an impressionable young age too, a torch under the covers job , swiped from my brother’s room, they had me in stitches when they weren’t opening new corridors in my mind !

          3. Susan

            Oh me too! Da couldn’t figure out why they were goin missing one at a time, only to reappear in random places :)
            Lordy that takes me back-tanks for de memories!

  6. MacGafraidh

    SOQ: What is your definition of normal and what are you trying to compare these fatality rates to first of all?

    I understand about the margin of error that exists with any test. Though I have no doubt that the professionals (not you and I) take that into consideration in terms of the plan of attack. A small margin of error doesn’t mean the real cases don’t exist and don’t have the potential to transmit to a vulnerable person and that’s what you want to see? Us not protecting the community’s health and allowing hospitalization and death before understanding that this is serious. One minute your for the vulnerable now you’re not? This morning Dr. Glynn of NPHET expressed concerts at the secondary spread and clusters so i be interested what angle you change to next week when hospitalizations increase. Maybe back to the masks not working perhaps?

    You, your thought process and your verbalization of your thoughts are a hazard. Whatever about the economy and people’s finances, health comes first. Your sweeping statements about ‘people’ have zero validation. You don’t speak for me, my family or my employees nor the Marjority of this country so stop with the sweeping statements. There are people who don’t want to go back to work,travel on public transport, be exposed to any potential risk however small it may be. There are people who want the country back on track and that’s fair enough but as long as there are hazardous people like yourself wanting to open up everything and are dead set against mask wearing, I’d rather the country stay closed whatever the impact.

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