None Of This Is Degrading

at

Last night.

The VMA Awards.

If it encourages young people to muzzle, it’ll be worth all the autotuned, transhuman gyrating.

Meanwhile…

Heh.

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59 thoughts on “None Of This Is Degrading”

  1. d

    im being patient with authorities telling me to wear a mask. though i am sceptical of how a mask can prevent the spread. filters in cloth dont stop the virus getting through. but im happy to go wtih the crowd and wear a mask for now. im not going to fight every battle.

    ive not heard of any scientific study, research showing what percentage reduction wearing a mask does. we had mandatory masks during spanish flu so i thought this research would be avaialble irrespective covid is different to spanish flu

      2. SOQ

        Amazing- everyone in Sweden must be dead by now so.

        As for young wan’s taking to it- well they sure as hell weren’t in the Pavailian Shopping Centre last Saturday- and the place was packed.

          1. george

            You just have to compare deaths in Sweden to the country immediately to their east, west and south.

          2. SOQ

            @ Col

            The clue is in the DEATHS PER MILLION category- completely useless- measure deaths in the over 65s and you will find there is absolutely no difference between % of Sweden and Ireland. In fact Sweden done slightly better.

            Why you include all men in a country in the statistics for cervical cancer?

            @ george

            Sweden is not comparable to those countries because the demographics are very different- proximity is irrelevant.

            Think about it.

          3. Cian

            @SOQ you keep saying that. And it is still wrong.

            Sweden had more deaths per 100,000 in the over 65 age group than Ireland has in the over 65 age group.

            Sweden 5,358 deaths from 2.0 million over 65s = 25,950 per 1,000,000 ( 2.6%)
            Ireland 1,653 deaths from 0.7 million over 65s = 23,740 per 1,000,000 (2.4%)”

          5. Cian

            @SOQ
            I think you are just making stuff up as you type.

            According to the CIA fact book the following is the % population aged 65 years and over (2020 est.) for a selection of countries near Sweden:
            – Norway: 17.43%
            – Denmark: 19.91%
            – Sweden: 20.59%
            – Finland: 22.26%
            – Germany: 22.99%

            For comparison, the EU as a whole is 13.52% and Ireland is 13.82%

          6. Cian

            @SOQ – I got them from a mix of places and crosschecked different sites for totals.
            Wikipedia had COVID age breakdowns. CSO for population. A swedish site for their population breakdown by age.
            It is possible that the deaths for the two countries were a few days apart – but the number of deaths each day is so low don’t change the %s. And there were 2 Irish cases without an age – I assumed the worst and added them to the 65+ group.

          7. SOQ

            So everywhere and nowhere then.

            I am obviously responding in kind to your rude comment above.

            Either way- Sweden is ahead of the game because politicians were not involved in the scientific strategy.

            I may move there.

          8. Cian

            @SOQ – latest data for over 65 COVID rates (with sources) – oh my earlier figures had a decimal place wrong for both Ireland and Sweden – it was deaths per 10 million.

            Ireland
            pop:   715,364
            deaths:   1,658
            rate:   2,318/million

            Sweden
            pop:   2,100,552
            deaths:   5,375
            rate:   2,559/million

            updated with today’s figures:
            – Population numbers (2020 estimates) – CIA factbook:
            – Ireland Death Age breakdown – HSE
            – Sweden Death Age breakdown: The Swedish Public Health Agency https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa/page/page_0/
            (note: this groups 400 deaths into the 60-69 age bracket – I’m being overly generous to Sweden and only putting 200 into the over 65 bracket – the reality is more should be in the older group but since i don’t know how many more…)

          9. Cian

            @SOQ; I updated those figures with sources (post hasn’t appeared – if it doesn’t appear I’ll resend later).

            You didn’t answer the new bit you made up – you know where you said that Sweden has a different age profile than its neighbors. And I provided evidence that they are all similar.

          10. SOQ

            You are on the back foot darling- I never make up- just checking your sources is all.

            Feel free to come back when you are ready.

            I do like a good old gay handbag swinging session- just ask V.

          12. Cian

            @SOQ
            You are wrong about the over 65s deaths Sweden vs Ireland.

            You said “Sweden is not comparable to those countries because the demographics are very different- proximity is irrelevant.”

            Pleas provide evidence for this. I’ve shown how Sweden has similar demographics. Of you can’t or won’t provide evidence I’m going to say you are wrong on this too.

            Two for two.

      3. Just Sayin

        From the article

        “By analyzing the pandemic trends without face-covering using the statistical method and by projecting the trend, we calculated that over 66,000 infections were prevented by using a face mask in little over a month in New York City.

        In other words it’s not proper research, they just used a mathematical model
        (which may or may not be correct)

        As there is plenty of other research showing little or no correlation between wearing masks or not I’m calling bollix on this.

        https://www.primarydoctor.org/masks-not-effect
        or
        http://paineira.usp.br/spiralab/?p=298

        In fact they don’t even work for bacteria in an operating theatre
        http://12160.info/m/blogpost?id=2649739:BlogPost:2035264

  3. Rob_G

    I genuinely think that women (and not just Arianna Grand and Gaga) are sexier wearing masks.

    That little soupcon of mystery…

      1. Rob_G

        Of course – I frig myself off there with ball-gag in my mouth thinking about Margaret Thatcher on the regular.

  4. Tinytim

    Anecdotal only…seems to me like younger ‘wans’ are more readily masking up. (Life is all about change and arbitrary rules before ~20). It’s middle aged that have decided change is bad.

  5. gallantman

    The PROPER wearing of masks help. In hospital setting where masks are worn once by trained staff and carefully removed and disposed of. Great!

    I’m beginning to have my doubts when they are regularly worn as chin straps. Noses are still exposed. They are pulled out of back pockets- the same one for weeks on end. Constant face touching to adjust the thing. Pulling masks up and down by hooking all 8 fingers inside. Teenagers mask sharing by handing over to the next person at a one in one out shop situation(I saw that).

    1. John Smith

      @ gallantman
      If someone does have the virus then the misuses that you have observed, and I have observed those and more, will actually result in the spreading around of the virus, rather than reducing this risk.

      As you say, used correctly in hospitals, masks are of benefit. This applies in specific circumstances, like in theatre, and not in general use. In the present situation, even people who are convinced that wearing a mask is ‘good’ are often unaware of all the details regarding correct usage and people who are just doing it because ‘they’ say we have to generally couldn’t care less about all that ‘stuff’. Better far to go back to letting people choose for themselves whether to wear one.

      1. george

        It is the peer reviewed scientific papers that say masks should be worn. Is that what you mean by “they”?

        1. John Smith

          @George

          No, ‘they’ are the people who make the rules – the Government, in this case. Most people are not interested in papers, peer-reviewed or otherwise, and just do what they are told to do by the powers that be. It’s the Government that listens to the scientists, or at least, to the scientists that it chooses to listen to.

          Don’t forget, too, that ‘peer-review’ is not a guarantee of correctness. It is only are good as the peers that are doing the reviewing and can be biased. This is especially likely where the paper is covering ground that goes against whatever is the current orthodoxy. Additionally, ‘many journals have revamped their process to get those papers peer reviewed and published at a vastly expedited pace’ https://www.vox.com/2020/6/29/21302489/coronavirus-face-mask-covid-19-pnas-study. This means that it is likely that there is more chance of unsatisfactory papers getting through the process. Some papers are being withdrawn now, it appears.

          By no means all scientists of relevant disciplines are convinced that the wearing of masks is beneficial but those who disagree are likely to find it harder to get their papers published.

      2. Sham Bob

        ‘Better far to go back to letting people choose for themselves whether to wear one.’
        – is it? The assumption is that they protect others if the wearer is shedding virus. If you disagree with that assumption fair enough, but it’s one the WHO and the government belatedly accepted despite evidence from countries who’d successfully implemented mask-wearing as a strategy early on.

    2. george

      The virus doesn’t survive on masks for weeks.

      You should be keeping your hands clean and we touch our faces all the time without thinking about when not wearing a mask.

      Of course masks shouldn’t be shared but what can you do about the occasional thicko?

      1. John Smith

        @George

        Be realistic. People are not going to go round the supermarket squirting sanitiser on their hands every time they touch their mask! We need to deal with realities. It’s not a case of what should be done but what is being done.

        The guidelines for correct mask usage are very detailed and are on the gov.ie site. The guidelines are shown there because they are important for safe usage of masks. IF masks are beneficial at all, in the present circumstances, they need to be used properly for the benefit to apply. Some people are meticulous in this but even many of those who believe in masks do not use them correctly.

        However, the majority of people just follow the letter of the law by simply sticking something over their face in places where they have to – you can see this if you watch people going into and out of shops.

        Finally, some will not wear a mask at all – because they can’t or because they won’t. The latter may be prepared to break the law or, like me, they may simply avoid all places where a mask is required.

          1. SOQ

            Muzzle- lets use the correct term. In fairness- they really do suit Micheál Martin and Leo Varadkar, you don’t have to question which side of the mouth is speaking.

          3. SOQ

            They conceal the most communicative part of the human body outside voice- of course they are muzzles- and for what? A seasonal virus which has REDUCED the number of overall deaths to date?

            Even in the back of your brain Cian- surely there must be a question mark now?

          5. John Smith

            @ Cian

            As I said above, no I don’t wear a mask – I simply avoid all places where one is required. Not every one would find this possible – most people have to shop, for example – and that is just one reason why the enforced wearing of masks is wrong and a severe curtailment of personal liberties. This should be a matter for personal choice.

            When I trained in hospital, I was taught when to use a mask and how to use it, eg detailed handling instructions, use only whilst absolutely necessary (as short a time as possible), etc. Nothing that has happened since has led me to believe that this training is wrong and friends who are currently working in hospitals tell me that the training that I received is still the same.

            In addition to that, I am more and more convinced that the arguments in favour of mask-wearing are not convincing. The links listed by Just Sayin in ‘None of this is degrading’ are also very interesting in this respect.

          6. Cian

            @John
            If you know how to wear a mask correctly they wear one. The argument that others may be doing it wrong is not relevant to you and your mask wearing.

          7. John Smith

            @Cian

            No way! I thought I had made it clear that my training taught me when to wear a mask as well as how and the current situation would definitely not come into the when that I was taught! Nor does it fit with the ‘only when absolutely necessary and for the shortest possible time’ part of correct usage. Yes, I know how to use a mask correctly and part of this is knowing that I shouldn’t be wearing one in the situations that the law now says that masks must be worn. Therefore, I do not wear a mask but, as I have said, I simply avoid places where I would have to wear one.

            I totally agree that the fact that others are doing it wrongly has nothing to do with my mask-wearing or, rather, not-wearing. It is a completely separate issue but is relevant to the argument as to whether people should be wearing masks in the present circumstances because the incorrect usage actually makes the mask-wearing risky to other people. Far better not to wear a mask at all.

  6. frank

    My 8 year old came home from their first day in second class and told me he couldn’t understand what the teacher was saying. The teacher was wearing a visor and a face mask.

    I also don’t see how a pre-record with these ‘ladies’ promotes sensible face mask wearing??????

    1. millie madonna

      I’m curious, why did you write ‘ladies’ as opposed to ladies? Do you doubt their gender? Or for some reason you feel they are not worthy of the title of lady?

    2. GiggidyGoo

      Good point Frank. They don’t even have to lip sync now. Next clothing / accessory style will be Gaga masks etc.
      That wasn’t live. Who do they think they’re fooling?

    3. John Smith

      @ frank
      Re teacher’s speech. Problem I’ve met with, too. Some people’s speech is more muffled than other people’s by the wearing of a mask. The difficulty is increased by not being able to lip-read because the mouth is hidden (lip-reading is not just important to those with a hearing-impairment) and/or where the speaker is physically distancing, either because of Covid guidelines or because they are addressing people at a greater distance (eg a class). Recently, I was in a situation where one person had to take their mask off before they could be understood. I wonder if that would constitute a ‘reasonable excuse’. The only official one that seems to relate in any way is the one below but it would only apply if the person who is being spoken to has difficulties in communication:

      the person needs to communicate with a person who has difficulties communicating (in relation to speech, language or otherwise).

      The idea that masks can cause problems with communication in ordinary every-day situations does not seem to have occurred to those making the regulations.

  7. Junkface

    Its funny the language some people have been using for masking up. Now its called muzzling, because that’s what you do to dogs that bite. They are trying hard to make themselves feel dehumanized by wearing a simple mask for periods of time. The pooor, poooor babies!

    You don’t need a study to know that wearing a mask when there is an air transmitted virus, starves it and stops it from spreading.

    Guess what?? Umbrellas keep you dry in the rain!

    Where is the link to the study please?

    1. millie madonna

      Hey, I’m just out here asking questions, man.

      You know Bill Gates has a vested interest in the umbrella market? He wants everyone to be vaccinated with a massive umbrella. There’s nothing wrong with looking at ALL THE FACTS

        1. John Smith

          @ Cui Bono?

          ‘In my experience, the so called “anti-maskers” care deeply about humanity and where we are heading and that’s why they don’t want to wear them.’

          Totally agree that people labelled ‘anti-maskers’ care deeply about these things and that is likely to be one of the reasons why they don’t want to wear masks themselves. They would also want:
          a. other people to know the facts so that they can make an informed decision for themselves about whether to wear one
          b. everyone to be free to make that choice (whether yes or no), without any law imposing a requirement in this respect.

          It is striking that the gov.ie Corona site has this message:
          you are urged to use your own judgement and take personal responsibility for protecting yourself, your friends and your family.

          Where does ‘use your own judgement’ and ‘take personal responsibility’ come into enforced mask-wearing?

  8. Just Sayin

    From the article

    “By analyzing the pandemic trends without face-covering using the statistical method and by projecting the trend, we calculated that over 66,000 infections were prevented by using a face mask in little over a month in New York City.

    In other words it’s not proper research, they just used a mathematical model
    (which may or may not be correct)

    As there is plenty of other research showing little or no correlation between wearing masks or not I’m calling bollix on this.

    https://www.primarydoctor.org/masks-not-effect
    or
    http://paineira.usp.br/spiralab/?p=298

    In fact they don’t even work for bacteria in an operating theatre
    http://12160.info/m/blogpost?id=2649739:BlogPost:2035264

  10. Micko

    Wear a mask! Don’t wear a mask! Goign around in circles

    Both sides been bangin on about this for the last few months on this site!

    Chill the F out.

    Only 110 people under 65 have died in this country from this thing. Most working people’s chances of dying are miniscule.

    Unfortuatly the over 65’s are more vulnerable than younger people to this.

    It was the opposite with the H1N1 Swine flu back in 2009 – that attacked children and younger people.
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

    Life’s not fair. Deal with it.

  11. Ian-O

    In my experience, anti maskers do tend more towards science denial, pseudo science and conspiracy theories. Not all of course, there are lots of genuine people posing legitimate questions, there is all sorts of carpetbagging going on, there are sweetheart deals afoot and the government is being predictably cack handed in many ways.

    But I still choose to wear a mask on the off chance I become infected, most likely from some “free thinking, patriot” clown exercising their “rights”, I won’t spread it unknowingly to others. I wear it for others. Maybe for me too. But hey, according some on here I’m a sheep wearing a muzzle. So be it. I don’t care, so long as I wear my mask correctly, keep my hands clean and keep an eye out for potential symptoms I sleep very well.

  13. :-Joe

    Ye, it’s all BS and it’s bad for you…

    Maybe a seperate daily COVID forum needs to be added on Broadsheet alnongside the papers… It’s all getting a bit too daft.

    If you don’t agree but are willing to go along with the charade just have fun with it…

    I’m wearing one side of a bra over my gob and the word “TIT” firmly emblazened in capitals with flashing illuminous L.E.D’s…
    – Also, it’s handy having a spare hanging off the side too but not sure of it’s level of efficacy?.. I think it’s made of lace, anyone?..

    So far, so goof..

    :-J

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