52 thoughts on “Thursday’s Papers

  1. GiggidyGoo

    In a letter to Health Minister Stephen Donnelly on September 11, Dr Glynn warned that Dublin’s higher rate of Covid has the potential to lead to a greater spread of the virus in other parts of the country. But the Cabinet had not acted on advice given by National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) at the time.
    No wonder Donnelly felt ill – because his fiddling while Dublin burns was about to be exposed.

    Reply
  2. Charger Salmons

    What a great front page on The New European.
    Respect to their Picture Editor.
    And the Spectator is as reliably good as ever and showing that a broad range of opinions from all sides of the political debate is the mark of critical thinking.
    Particularly as Boris used to edit the magazine.
    The Guardian remains consistently dull and one-sided. You can see why Nigel of this parish loves it so much.
    Join us after the break for more of Charger’s unbiased review of the papers.

    Reply
    1. Joe F

      Why haven’t you commented on the testing fiasco in your homeland old boy? Any chance of an unbiased review of that? I won’t hold my breath.

      Reply
      1. Rosette of Sirius

        You just know something is in the air when the Mail, Telegraph, Spectator and oul Charlie Hammocks hisself are getting weary of bleating Land of Boris and Glory. Is it now time to take a Maguire and Paterson to the gaslight and exclaim they all knew he was a fraud after all?

        Reply
      1. Charger Salmons

        The Speccie uses a gifted Norwegian illustrator, Morten Morland, for most of their front pages.
        A top-notch political cartoonist.

        Reply
  3. dav

    I see right wingers are spreading lies again..
    https://www.thejournal.ie/paul-murphy-advert-debunk-5206340-Sep2020/
    “A JOBS ADVERTISEMENT which purported to have been posted on behalf of Rise TD Paul Murphy looking to recruit “actors” to appear at protests is fake and has been photoshopped.
    The false ad was shared on social media in the wake of anti-mask protests and a counter-demonstration in Dublin last week. Murphy has said he won’t be “intimidated about speaking out” by the post.
    On Saturday, a number of protests were organised in Dublin city centre.
    One of the groups formed an anti-restrictions, anti-mask protest that progressed to Kildare Street outside Leinster House. “

    Reply
    1. Cian

      how do you know it wasn’t a fake ad posted by Murphy to make it look like he was being unfairly targeted? a double-bluff?

      Reply
      1. :-Joe

        You’re grasping at thin air..

        Murphy is not an eejit and it’s far off his style of politics..
        Plus, he’s used to putting up with so-called “right wing” to far right extremist and biased criticism of his every actions from all sides of the state establishment supporting narrative by the media of newsderp, rte and the various rags that we call newspapers etc.

        Only the likes of the deluded right to far right extremist crowd of the tory elite or the fox news and friends pseudo-republicans tend to get caught acting so seemingly desperate and so obviously stupid.

        It would be more of the style of your pals, the F-f/g style of trickery or someone acting on their behalf for sure.

        Nothing new either way

        :-J

        Reply
  4. Charger Salmons

    And in sports news a fantastic last-over win by Australia against England in the third ODI at Old Trafford last night sealed a series win for the visitors against the world champions.
    Irish-born England captain Eoin Morgan copped some criticism for choosing to use a spinner for the last over.
    But he’s had such a great summer it wasn’t judged a massive error.
    In fact what a fantastic summer of cricket it has been starting at the beginning with Ireland entering the bio-secure bubbles at Southampton and Manchester following by the Windies,Pakistan and the Aussies.
    England’s winter touring plans remain up in the air because of Covid-19.

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  5. Murtles

    Since restrictions started back in March, the Dubs have been roaming the country on holidays with impunity and without regard for anyone else but themselves. Open up the wet pubs in Dublin along with the rest of the country to give the rest of us peace and a modicum of safety.

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      1. Rob_G

        Now now – don’t get salty, just because he schooled with your asinine “bUt Of CoUrSe NuMbErs are up, tests are up” observation

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        1. GiggidyGoo

          Looks like you and Cian need a bit of schooling

          The more tests that are done, the more results are recorded. The more results that are recorded, the more positive (and the more negative) results are recorded.
          Or what’s your take? Or do you think for yourself even?
          Chicken and egg. Cian talking rubbish and tries the deflection/distraction as usual.

          Reply
          1. Rob_G

            … sweet jesus, I genuinely can’t believe anyone is so dense…

            If a million tests are done, and 100K are positive, that situation is worse than if 10K tests are done, and only 50 are positive

          2. GiggidyGoo

            Except Rob – we are talking about actual numbers, and not percentages.
            Believe in yourself. Divide your mass by your volume.Then you’ll find out how dense you are.

      1. ian-oh

        Whoodja think y’are coming around here with your facts Cian? Huh?

        We don’t like those around these here parts!

        Facts, pfah! I like my feelings, thanks….

        ;)

        Reply
      2. SOQ

        Straight up question-

        Do you honestly think that 3 hospital admissions while 3 are discharged therefore no nett increase, 1 ICU and 3 fatalities which were too ill or frail to be admitted into ICU, is reason to reek even more economic carnage on the country?

        Ireland is following the exact same path as the rest of Europe which is experiencing the remnants of a past seasonal virus- nothing more.

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        1. ian-oh

          So steps taken have us down to that? That’s good isn’t it?

          Do you think we should just let this virus that is killing 100s of 1000s in the US alone to run rampant? Are you making efforts to contract it to do your bit towards herd immunity?

          Let us know how you get on, I believe its great craic, just a little flu, sit at home watching daytime TV and yer laughin’.

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          1. SOQ

            Sweden did not take ‘those steps’ yet have managed very well and are much better placed for this oncoming season.

            ‘Steps’ meaning restrictions only slow it down which but it is right there when they are eased- surely even you can grasp that much?

          2. Cian

            Sweden has had ten times the death rate as it’s immediate neighbours.
            I’m not sure we should be blindly following them.

          3. SOQ

            As you well know, comparisons with the Nordic countries do not take into account demographics Cian because Sweden has a much higher over 65 population.

            Sweden has 3 times more over 65s than Ireland so no surprise it also had 3 times the fatalities- CoVid-19 was VERY age specific- the more old people you had, the more old people died.

            Per thousand / million can very misleading.

          4. Cian

            @SOQ
            I know, you keep telling us you can’t compare Ireland to Sweden. So I didn’t. I’m comparing it to countries with similar climate, population density, demographics, culture, DNA, immigration. It’s next-door neighbours.

            Can you explain why Sweden has had ten times the death rate as it’s immediate neighbours?

          5. f_lawless

            2019 saw the lowest number of deaths in Sweden in 40 years, meaning that going into 2020 there was an elevated number of susceptible people in the population. Sweden didn’t do enough to protect those in nursing homes. Half of Covid-19 deaths were in nursing homes.

            When there’s a range of multi-variational factors at play specific to each country, I think it’s more meaningful look to Sweden’s own historical data in order to put the impact SARS Cov-2 had there in perspective.

            If you compare the death rates in Sweden between 1990-2019 with that of the 2020 death rate, only April 2020 saw a comparatively abnormal spike but it was still 19th in the list of deadliest months during the 30 year period. Also the 6 month (January-June) average ranks 24th in last 30 years.

            Meanwhile:
            https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/15/sweden-records-its-fewest-daily-covid-19-cases-since-march
            “While many European countries are seeing new cases surge to levels not seen since the peak of the Covid-19 pandemic, Sweden – whose light-touch approach has made it an international outlier – has one of the continent’s lowest infection rates.”

        2. Cian

          Straight up answer?
          As you phrase the question, if we look at a single day’s admissions/ICU/deaths. No.

          But we don’t look at one day, we look at trends.
          For the last 6 weeks we have seen the number of positive tests increase.

          For 5 weeks in July/August there were never more than 15 people in hospital. In the last month the number has increased over 400% to 76 today. There numbers have increased almost every day.

          The ICU trend isn’t as clear, but the numbers are going up.

          The number of deaths is (thankfully) low, but again, the trend is upward.

          Straight up question – do you think that with (a) the numbers of positive tests definitely increasing, (b) the numbers of hospital cases definitely increasing, (c) the numbers in ICU probably increasing, and (d) the numbers dying possibly increasing, it is a reason to relax the restrictions that have reduces the carnage caused by Covid?

          Reply
          1. SOQ

            Positive test are already proven to be suspect- even the Scottish health minister has admitted such- no public policy should at this point be based on PCR swabs which have an unknown margin of error.

            But in answer to the rest- yes- absolutely. Academics have always expressed concern about not how to go into lockdown but how to get out of it- and that is the challenge we now face. The risk of getting seriously ill or dying of CoVid-19 for most people under 65 and not obese, even at peak, was so small that none of this carnage was warranted.

            Public health policy cannot be exclusively focused on one disease and oncologists in particular are now loudly warning of a tsunami of cancers- because the other health services were closed down.

            If it is a case that your predicted second wave happens then so be it but given that it has never happened before, we should proceed on the basis that this Corona Virus will continue to behave like all the others before it.

          2. Cian

            you ignored the hospitalisations and ICU (which are following the same increases as in tests).

            “If it is a case that your predicted second wave happens then so be it but given that it has never happened beforre, we should proceed on the basis that this Corona Virus will continue to behave like all the others before it.”
            No other Corona Virus has acted like Covid-19 – killed as many people, caused lockdowns like covid-19. We have reacted to Covid-19 differently – why would you expect the outcome not to be different?

          3. SOQ

            Both SARS-1 and MERS were more lethal than CoVid-19- the difference being the % who got sick was so much higher- therefore a lot easier to contain.

            That SARS-Cov-2 has been found in the sewage systems of places where outbreaks on CoVid-19 did not occur until months later, proves that it has been around a lot longer than previously assumed- and that it is a lot more widespread than previously assumed.

            But if the authorities acknowledge this then by default they also admit that they have most right royally messed up- and they will do their level best NOT to admit to that.

            Which is why you are here eh?

          4. Cian

            @SOQ That SARS-Cov-2 has been found in the sewage systems of places where outbreaks on CoVid-19 did not occur until months later, proves that it has been around a lot longer than previously assumed- and that it is a lot more widespread than previously assumed.

            BS! How exactly is this suppose to work? Was it dormant for all those months? Hiding in the sewers? Then all of a sudden, once the virus was declared by the Chinese, **surprise!!** it springs out of the sewers and we see it hitting Europe (March/April) and the US (April/May) and S. America (May/June)

            Even if true that it appeared earlier, how does that change anything? It wasn’t spreading through the population in late 2019. How do I know? Because nobody was dying of it. (and it would also mean the Gompertz curve is wrong.)

  6. dav

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/covid-19-is-far-more-dangerous-than-flu-1.4354743
    “Sir, – The HSE has rejected the claims of Dr Martin Feeley (clinical director of the Dublin Midlands Hospital Group) that Covid-19 is less serious than the annual flu and that people at low risk of the virus should be allowed to be exposed to it, which would enable the country to develop herd immunity (“HSE rejects senior doctor’s comments Covid-19 is ‘less severe’ than annual flu”, News, September 12th).
    We fully support the HSE’s rejection of Dr Feeley’s opinions.
    When it comes to Covid-19, we must where possible be led by data. On average, seasonal flu strains kill about 0.1 per cent of people who become infected. Current data indicates that Covid-19 is substantially more dangerous than flu. Dr Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the US, has given a death rate 10 times that of seasonal flu.
    Regarding herd immunity, no country has explicitly advocated this approach because of the dangers it will entail. Recent seroprevalence studies indicate that 1.7 per cent of the Irish population has been infected with Sars-CoV-2 and there have been 1,784 deaths and many survivors with severe long-term effects of Covid-19. It has been estimated that at least 70 per cent of the population need to be infected (or immunised with a highly effective vaccine) to reach the critical threshold for herd immunity. Therefore, herd immunity through infection will come at price of substantially more morbidity and mortality from Covid-19 in the Irish population.
    It would also be virtually impossible to protect vulnerable people, since a large proportion, as many as one in three, of the Irish population are in a high-risk group. Apart from older people, this includes those with heart disease, diabetes and obesity. Widespread infection would also likely give rise to people with debilitating persistent symptoms.
    Since he is advocating for herd immunity, can Dr Feeley give an upper limit of the likely number of deaths that would be acceptable if a herd immunity approach were to be taken?
    We are in a most important phase of the Covid-19 pandemic. It is essential that commentators base their statements on current science as best they can. Otherwise they are in danger of misleading the general public or providing support for those who support disinformation for political ends. – Yours, etc,
    LUKE O’NEILL, PhD MRIA FRS;
    DAVID McCONNELL, PhD, MRIA;
    KINGSTON MILLS, PhD, MRIA;
    TOMÁS RYAN, PhD
    Trinity College Dublin,
    Dublin 2.

    Reply
    1. SOQ

      Community immunity will happen one way or another because masks and lock downs don’t work.

      Otherwise, why is fatalities not following the trajectory of positive PCR swab tests?

      Reply
      1. ian-oh

        But you complain above about the low number of cases but then say the steps are not working?

        Bit of cognitive dissonance maybe?

        Reply
      2. Cian

        Hospitalisations is following the trajectory of positive tests (albeit offset by about a week).

        ICU is starting to follow that trajectory (albeit offset by a week).

        Deaths seem to be increasing (difficult to know either way because the numbers in August were small. 14 deaths in all of August; 11 deaths in first half of September)

        Reply
        1. SOQ

          And you think Ireland is going to behave any differently to the rest of Europe why? Focusing on minute numbers is scaremongering of the highest order.

          Reply
          1. Cian

            76 in hospital isn’t minute.

            49 one week ago
            40 two weeks ago
            29 three weeks ago
            16 four weeks ago

            The numbers are trending upwards.

  7. :-Joe

    An interesting article from another rare media outlet that’s at least trying to represent real journalism.

    All in the midst of an era of media representing the public goood through constantly downsizing and downgrading talent for lowest common denominator click-jockeys just ambulance chasing the latest spat on twitter instead of grinding it out for the ambition of breaking an old fashioned proper great story.

    https://www.cjr.org/criticism/gates-foundation-journalism-funding.php

    Society, in other words you and your fantasy belief in benign altruistic techno-trillionaire’s will morally bankrupt us all…

    :-J

    Reply
  8. Redundant Proofreaders Society

    In relation to the new COVID-19 restrictions, government and media sources are referring constantly to ‘level two and a bit’ and ‘level three and a bit’.

    Is that the best we can do?
    The eloquence of it.
    The clarity of it.

    Reply
    1. :-Joe

      It’s perfect form for the non-political age of half-ass’d or pr-spun double speak from our european hr middle managers of society for the banking elite..

      A broken hijacked system, literally incapable of reason, communication, collective bargaining and negotiation to solve any real and serious problems in society apart from those supporting the power of commercial wholesale banks.

      It’s me, you and all of us making non-politics personified..
      – We get what we vote for / support or tolerate / ignore etc.

      :-J

      Reply

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