Ivor Lot Of Questions

at | 61 Replies

So many we ran out of time.

Chronic disease specialist and Covid response critic Ivor Cummins aka The Fat Emperor took to the piping hot ‘stool of doom’ this morning (8am) to address YOUR queries.

Even rude ones.

With Vanessa Foran and John Ryan.

CNN report on Sweden mentioned (@28.44) by Ivor here.

Also discussed: Transmission of  Epidemic Influenzaby R Edgar Hope-Simpson.

Yesterday: Answer A broadsheet Reader

61 thoughts on “Ivor Lot Of Questions

    1. SOQ

      And the equivalent of Stevie Wonder driving a medical bus while screaming fear and panic at Government will have full state pensions?

      Reply
    1. GiggidyGoo

      And that ‘actual’ data isn’t actual. https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/interpretation-covid-19-data

      Interpretation of COVID-19 data presented on this website
      The 14-day notification rate of new COVID-19 cases, along with the 14-day death rate are the main indicators displayed. These rates are calculated based on data collected by the ECDC Epidemic Intelligence from various sources and are affected by the local testing strategy, laboratory capacity and the effectiveness of surveillance systems. Comparing the epidemiological situation regarding COVID-19 between countries should therefore not be based on these rates alone. At individual country level, this indicator may however be useful for monitoring the national situation over time.
      Testing policies and the number of tests performed per 100 000 persons, vary markedly across the EU/EEA and presumably even more so among third countries. More extensive testing will inevitably lead to more cases being detected.
      The 14-day notification rate of new COVID-19 cases should be used in combination with other factors including testing policies, number of tests performed, test positivity, excess mortality and rates of hospital and Intensive Care Unit (ICU) admissions, when analysing the epidemiological situation in a country. Most of these indicators are presented for EU/EEA Member States and the UK in the Country Overview report.
      Even when using several indicators in combination, comparisons between countries should be done with caution and relevant epidemiological expertise.“

      So there are disclaimers on the ‘actual data’

      Reply
      1. Cian

        It is still “actual data”.

        Real ‘actual data’ comes with disclaimers – because the people that put it together care about the truth and accuracy and realize their limitations.

        Snake-oil men and peddlers of woo deal in absolutes. They think they know everything and deliver their message as fact (see Ivor) . See also Dunning-Kruger effect.

        Reply
  1. Just Sayin

    Great interview, Thanks Broadsheet, it’s great that you are giving an opportunity for the truth to get out.

    It would be good to see Ivors assertions challenged by one of the so called experts, but I doubt you will find any willing to stand against him.

    How about a proper panel like Carl Henegan, Michael Levitt, Beda Stadler.
    (They speak a lot of sense, checkout Ivor’s old videos)

    Reply
    1. millie madonna

      Are you implying that most of the world’s leaders and institutions, that scientists and medical experts have collectively decided to feed a lie to the general populace? Can you elaborate on why, if this is the case?

      Can I ask also why you feel that someone like Ivor (and I’m not questioning his qualifications here or anything he has said as I haven’t had the opportunity to watch the vid yet) qualifies as an expert here, as opposed to the many virologist and epidemiologists, scientists and doctors who have spoken about the dangers Covid-19 poses and how to manage the virus effectively?

      Reply
        1. millie madonna

          Is it the wine or the gin tonight, soq? Not sure what I’ve done to merit your ire.

          Either way, your comment is a bit unnecessary.

          Reply
          1. millie madonna

            If you had read my comment properly, you’d see that I’m asking for an opinion from Just Saying. I’m not asking him/her for a synopsis of the video.

          1. Ian-Oh

            @SOQ – Finally see the real you. Make fun of victims of violence much or just those you dislike. Scummy comment, you must feel real proud.

          2. Rob_G

            Jesus – could anyone imagine the right-on Some Old Queen from a few years’ ago reacting in such a way to a woman being assaulted?

            Really goes to show how radicalised you have become.

      1. Just Sayin

        1. Neil Ferguson / Imperial College London came up with a model that wildly overstated the danger of the virus. (just like they did for swine flu, bse, foot & mouth, but are never called on it)

        2. News reports from Northern Italy made the model seem credible.
        (ignoring that what we saw is pretty much the same as what happened there in 2107)

        3. Governments panic, copying each other in implementing nonsensical lockdowns.

        4. The Pharma companies have a field day spreading fear (e.g. Luke O Neill here) knowing how much money they will make from testing / vaccines

        5. The WHO is bullied into going along with this, by pharma looking for money and governments looking for cover for their stupidity.

        6. After the peak of the epidemic we are left with a casedemic, where PCR tests give flase positive positive results and useless actual positive resultsfor RNA fragments of virus that are being shed several months after an actual infection.

        7. The PCR results look like the beginning of a second wave (though note that deaths & ICU admissions remain low)

        8. The ‘second wave’ threat causes governments to double down on their earlier failed actions

        9. This isn’t new we had this nonsense before with swine flu (WHO overstating the disease at the behest of pharma & mad PCR testing after the epidemic had passed)

        EXCEPT FOR SWEDEN
        They didn’t follow the flawed model, but simply reacted how we have always done to any epidemic
        (i.e. not killing their economy with lockdowns)

        JUST LOOK AT THE DATA, THE COVID PANDEMIC ISNT MUCH WORSE THAN A REGULAR FLU SEASON.

        Many places had it just as bad in 2018 ‘Aussie Flu’, but because it wasn’t ‘novel’ we didn’t get into a panic. Most people didn’t even notice it.

        THE NUMBERS DONT LIE

        People like Ivor are analysing the data and pointing that out.

        Heres the point of view of a greedy hedge fund,
        Note how they cut straight through the bullshit to see how they can make money.

        https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ws6wCd7q2yeb8qwCpQ9-3j_-5923mC8d/view

        https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/08/04/how-bad-is-covid-really-a-swedish-doctors-perspective/
        https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/08/07/the_myth_that_lockdowns_stop_pandemics_143899.html

        we may be closer to herd immunity than we think
        https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/07/28/immune-t-cells-may-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/

        Our covid numbers are bollix
        https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0828/1161895-excess-mortality-figures/

        PCR test scam
        https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/15/871186164/what-zebra-mussels-can-tell-us-about-errors-in-coronavirus-tests?t=1597622325959

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122633885/coronavirus-why-infected-people-arent-tested-again-before-release

        Reply
        1. Daisy Chainsaw

          Big Pharma conspiracy!!! CAPITALISED HYSTERIA TOO!!!!

          Big Homeo laughs all the way to the bank making billions a year by selling sugar pills and water to gullible eejits who think a few drops of something carries the memory of antibodies (but not of effluent, washing up liquid etc) that will cure your flu or cancer! Maybe investigate the Homeopathic Industry and see the scams they’re pulling by telling innocent people their snake oil can cure them.

          Reply
        2. Listrade

          I’d agree in parts, but I think there’s too much emphasis on the Imperial College paper. What we really have is governments panicking, making a judgement based on “current” data, but then like all politicians:
          a) don’t want to admit they were wrong
          b) don’t understand the stuff anyway

          The Imperial College report was published on March 16th. We knew bugger all about the virus then. All we had was whatever data China released (or made up) and South Korea. There were very limited supplies of the virus itself to test. In short we had a rapidly spreading pandemic, we had serious concerns about overwhelming the healthcare system. None of which were irrational or unreasonable.

          Imperial College considered the two main strategies:
          1. Suppression (the lockdown)
          2. Mitigation (like we did with Swine Flu, protected the vulnerable to reduce mortality and healthcare system).

          It openly says information is small it was a look at which would be best for the healthcare system (not economy and not us). That’s a limited review based on limited data. The report is open about this.

          The report is clear that both methods are not 100% effective. There will be rebounds. There will still be mortality. But in March we didn’t have enough data to know exactly how infectious it was or how serious. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing.

          Now we do know very clearly that suppression can’t work. The only problem is that mitigation relies on a good healthcare system and some means of pharmaceutical intervention (vaccine or treatment to reduce impact) and we don’t have either.

          You’re 100% right on the numbers. It’s impossible to compare now with March or April or May as the testing wasn’t in place. We do know that from some of the antibody tests (not that reliable) that infection was a lot higher than the numbers showed, just that people were asymptomatic. Despite the rise in numbers, it’s very likely that if we had 100% testing, the numbers would look a lot better when comparing to Spring.

          So we’re in mitigation and that’s more about protecting the vulnerable. But it’s difficult as we don’t have anything confirmed that could help medically, it’s all on trying to cut out the physical transmission.

          Suppression was never going to work in the long run, that’s acknowledge in the report. But, we didn’t know what we were heading into, plus the suppression techniques weren’t being followed. The initial suppression was hopefully going to be a reset and then mitigation.

          Mistakes were made, we’re now in mitigation.

          Reply
        1. GiggidyGoo

          I see you’ve filled in your conspiracy coloring book this morning. Yet you still find time to post on BS – the subject of your conspiracy theory. My oh my.

          Reply
  2. Jim

    This is great. Thanks for helping to get the information out. Very good explainer, breaks the subject down well and is extremely well read on this.

    I wish more people would open their mind on this. Its getting very old now. Stop the lockdown.

    Reply
  3. Fuzzy

    Great Q&A – breaks down the bullpoo. People calling quackery here have obviously not watched this video. Ivor is a guy with integrity.

    Reply
      1. Pat Mustard

        Yeah, he’s a murderer now.

        silly stuff.

        No doubt you’ll be fact checking him against the council on foreign relations lacky Dave Van Zandt.

        Reply
  4. SOQ

    Good stuff BS.

    Interesting that critical commentators are not challenging the data or interpretation of.

    Also interesting is that Ivor is rowing back on his objection to silly masks.

    Reply
  5. MacGafraidh

    Sweden followed WHO guidelines and didn’t wear masks or go into Lockdown and they’re doing great.. Gold star

    So what exactly is he saying about Ireland there. Masks and Lockdown caused our poor performance?

    Very difficult to listen to, digest and actually believe his spin on data. Must be one of SOQ’s mates..

    Genuinely done with broadsheet and giving these clowns the opportunity to push their propaganda.

    Reply
    1. dav

      well people who wear masks are nothing but muzzled sheep and shure its only a bad flu, made by bill gates and spread by Air China

      Reply
  6. Yarfakdu

    Lots of commentators whose contributions I’ve greatly enjoyed over the years suddenly turning on and sniping or dismissing each other. Divide and conquer is certainly working on this subject. For what it’s worth he came across very well and his arguments are for the most part logical and reasonably substantiated.

    Reply
  7. Micko

    Interesting watch.

    Did I agree with everything he said – no. But, very informative.

    Things I took from it:

    1) There is no conspiracy in his eyes, just a bit of a mess up and opportunistic muppets cashing in on it.
    2) We may have made a very big mistake keeping the lockdown going as long as we did.

    Sure at the end of the day it’s just one man’s opinion of reading the same data as others and coming to his own conclusions.

    He means no malice I believe and anyone here calling for him to be silenced should take a long look at themselves.

    Reply
  8. Hector Rameriz

    It appears to me that Ivor seems to have come out on top of the pile of the armchair epidemiologists and consequently is getting coverage.

    Reply
    1. Hector Rameriz

      Well he can talk the talk on project management and the like you know having worked as a manager in the corporate sphere on €100m problems

      Reply
    1. Just Sayin

      The actuaries are just playing games with the numbers
      look at their latest bulletin (16 sept) on https://www.covid-arg.com/bulletins

      You’ll see they deal with 3 sets of numbers
      Cases, Hospital Admissions, Deaths

      With the current state of PCR testing, Cases is an essentially useless metric.

      Hospital Admissions should be a more reliable metric and it would be if it was ‘Hospital Admissions for Covid’.
      Instead it’s any hospital admission where there was a previous positive test or they test positive in hospital.

      So trip to hospital with broken ankle can be counted as covid if PCR says so.

      Covid ICU Beds would be a good metric (but it’s too low to generate fear factor or interesting graphs)

      Covid Death is another corrupted metric.

      In the UK if you had covid in March and got run over by a bus in June the NHS & PHE (public Health England) counted that as a covid death.

      PHE revised the figures in August to fix that anomoly (28 day limit from test to death)

      But guess what these actuaries are using the old NHS uncorrected numbers

      From page 3 of their bulletin “Public Health England reporting was updated in August to include only deaths within 28 days of a positive test for COVID-19. This NHS England data does not include that restriction.”

      To avoid the politics of misregistered deaths some analysists including Ivor also look at the overall mortality firures or the excess mortality figures. http://euromomo.eu

      Here the CSO’s estimate of excess mortality from Mar to July is between 850 and 900 deaths.
      The official total of covid deaths for that period is 1,763.

      i.e. nearly half of the covid deaths in our stats clearly aren’t really covid deaths.
      (they’ve simply labelled many deaths as possible or probable)

      So yes believe the numbers as you say, but you need to check the small print to determine the veracity of the numbers.

      Reply
  9. Lilly

    We should have been hearing discussions of this kind on RTE since the pandemic kicked off, rather than being treated like recalcitrant children. Well done BS!

    Reply
  10. David J

    It’s a disgrace that nothing Ivor is saying is being challenged in this video everything from his being a manager on multimillion dollar projects – what were these and how do they qualify him for his supposed expertise in COVID-19? I am a manager in a multinational in Ireland and I have overseen 1 project (fitting out a new lab) which cost roughly $30 million does that mean I am a covid expert?!
    A lot of his statements he, very smugly, seems to state as fact when they are not – he takes very selective data from Sweden to make his point. If you look at the data on Norway and Denmark, they have a similar cases curve and very low death rate to Sweden right now but their numbers are way way lower than Swedens. Also he seems to ignore the UK, USA and Brazil where, especially in the latter two, the disease has been rampant and the death rate has soared while the leaders in the USA and Brazil especially have belittled the science and the virus.
    Ivor is very confident, charming and charismatic even but his data is very very selective and chosen and skewed for his viewpoint. He makes a lot of statements which he purports as fact when they are not and he is never challenged in this video. He got an easy ride out there.

    Reply
    1. Richie

      Agree with you wholeheartedly. The guy is a professional cherry picker. The man from Del Monte should watch his back with this guy around. His latest Twitter effort involves selectively picking graphs from regions and demographics that suit his narrative and drawing big circles on them with caveat-free statements of certainty.

      Ultimately, if you sum the total number of deaths of all causes in the US between July 2017 and July 2018 (a fairly bad flu year) and compare directly to the period from July 2019 to July 2020, there have been over 200,000 extra deaths in 19/20. The Conversation ran an article on this recently. https://theconversation.com/up-to-204-691-extra-deaths-in-the-us-so-far-in-this-pandemic-year-143139 In fact, they publish an excel file including the numbers that were sourced directly from the CDC. Now, I’m not an epidemiologist or an expert in coronaviruses and while I too could include a selection of letters after my name and state that I am an expert in a related field of science, I wouldn’t dare make public claims on the topic of disease control. I will listen to experts in that field, I will follow the advice of my department of health and I will wear a mask to protect those around me. If in Ireland, we can save the lives of hundreds or a few thousand people who are vulnerable to this disease by wearing a mask and avoiding congregating in large groups indoors, then I absolutely will do so.

      Of course, Ivor already knows all of this I’m sure and has his own agenda and reasons for being so vocal on this topic. The real question is why the occupants of Broadsheet towers are giving guys like this a platform to dispense such a twisted message, which poses a threat to public health? Please do your due diligence and apply journalistic rigor now more than ever.

      Reply

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