111 thoughts on “Tuesday’s Papers

  1. SOQ

    Da Claire Byrne show sez Swedes don’t socialise which is the reason why they had no lockdowns nor face nappies- so now you know.

    Highly informative.

      1. SOQ

        i am not going through this with you again and again Cian- you know rightly the answers.

        Your motives are disingenuous to say the least and if you spin any faster you will disappear up your own backside.

        1. Cian

          You have never given a valid answer.
          “Different demographics” and “Stockholm is a big city” don’t explain away a tenfold difference (and at least one of these ‘answers’ isn’t true).

        2. Nigel

          Perhaps your assertion that the country with such a high number of deaths is a model for the rest of us just isn’t that persuasive.

          1. Janet, dreams of big guns

            we all have issues it’s called being human,
            whatever yours are compelled you to try and bully or make personal attacks on a complete stranger to undermine them instead of engaging with the argument, that’s a pretty nasty symptom of your issues

          2. Janet, dreams of big guns

            Did I say I hated Cian, no, just that particular comment,
            Did I accuse Cian of having issues ? No.
            The fact that you can’t even tell the difference between a personal attack and an attack on a comment is very telling.
            I’m pretty sure I have already told you this but your tits for tat logic is flawed. Again a statement not a personal attack.

            Maybe this will help,
            Noun. personal attack (plural personal attacks) An abusive remark on or relating to somebody’s person instead of providing evidence when examining another person’s claims or comments.

          3. Alexander the Great

            Neither did I say I disliked the person behind the soq character, that would be ridiculous.
            I said the soq character has obvious issues.
            That is just honest feedback. Do you want me to underline or italicise the word character this time so that you can understand it?

          4. Janet, dreams of big guns

            if you don’t think telling someone they have issues again you don’t know what personal is

          5. Alexander the Great

            “I wish you’d pack it in. Is it meant to be scary ?“

            Translation

            Other commenters with whom I disagree should be silenced. Also I wish to impugn their motives

          6. Janet, dreams of big guns

            I repeatedly encourage and applaud BS for allowing all points of view irrespective of I find the remotion of those particular figures irritating,
            you can try twist it anyway you want,
            your logic is flawed

          7. Alexander the Great

            Was that mean to be written English?

            Anyway there are some actual real people who are abused in here every day by various commentators as opposed to your hyper friends in the virtual echo bubble

            Why don’t you extend the same concern for example to kids of politicians and leaders? Every day on these pages their parents are often viciously and hastily attacked in the most personalized way. We don’t hear you guys then!

            (EASE OFF ON THE NAME-CALLING PLEASE ATG)

          8. Alexander the Great

            Yes run away and play with your virtual friends
            You can give it but not take it
            You don’t have any sort of intelligent response so run away
            Like a little poodle

            You have no idea what my intent was above
            Yes what I said was direct but this persona’s constant need for attention wears thin.
            Besides he is more or less saying the medical professions are all corrupt quacks looking to exploit a global pandemic for unknown reasons
            How insulting is that for front line workers to read?
            Yet here every day that is what happens in here

            People who have to make decisions that affect hundreds of thousands of people’s health and lives are mocked, ridiculed, vilified by dope addled dunces twiddling their thumbs at home, snacking on Cheetos in their Moms. If you want to get our panties all soiled and twisted, suggest you start there.

            It’s not a personal attack
            It was a subtle request to others to leave him off
            He’s a harmless divil, but why constantly poke him like a bear?

            Is that what you want ? Further cruelty inflicted?

      2. Listrade

        It’s too soon to hold Sweden as a model of how to manage the pandemic, but then it’s also too early to write them off. Even the WHO recognise that there may be lessons:

        “We must recognize that Sweden, at the moment, has avoided the increase that has been seen in some of the other countries in western Europe….I think there are lessons for that. We will be very keen on working and hearing more from the Swedish approach.”

        WHO Europe’s senior emergency officer, Catherine Smallwood, quote from here:
        https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-cases-update-b506060.html

        The issue of deaths is at the moment largely looking negative for Sweden, but then all their deaths were “front loaded” they didn’t look to flatten the curve. The mitigation techniques to flatten the curve served to spread out the cases and deaths over a long period to avoid overwhelming the health service. In theory it should mean the same number of case and deaths, just spread over a longer period. Time will tell on that, but it isn’t a new concept, that was the sell behind “flatten the curve”, our health service couldn’t cope with that kind of surge.

        The number of other deaths will be interesting. Mitigating COVID was to ensure that the health service wasn’t overwhelmed to the extent that other preventable deaths couldn’t be treated. I don’t know what those stats are for Sweden

        Sweden also effed up with nursing homes. But then didn’t we all.

        All I do know is that Sweden isn’t comfortable being a political football. The “I WANT MUH FREEDOMS” are misrepresenting its policies and the “I BELIEVE IN SCIENCE” are misrepresenting the statistics. But I guess the biggest achievement in this pandemic is how we’ve realised that you don’t need college to be an epidemiologist or virologist, you just need google and reddit and bang, you’re qualified.

        Sweden is interesting, to say it isn’t is partisan bull and NOT believing in science. It’s too early to praise and its too early to criticise. It’s inhumane, but the death rate after a year will be the main comparison. But Sweden’s approach is simple:

        1. They still had restrictions on occupancy of buildings but they are also enforced
        2. Something ignored here, but Physical distancing (1 meter good, 1.5 metres great, 2 ,metres superb) + good ventilation + hygiene = very low risk.
        3. Physical distancing and hygiene are key and complied with
        4. Their approach to masks is actually similar to here and is not controversial. The only controversial bit is that mask wearing is not compulsory. However, unlike here, there is a much higher compliance by the population, meaning that mask wearing is not needed as a to be sure to be sure.
        5. As there is a surge in cases as Europe reopens, Sweden’s has peaked and has (at least in comparison) plateaued, BUT this isn’t herd immunity. Even Sweden will say this. This is good compliance by the population: staying isolated if sick, physical distancing, hygiene. We can’t even go 24hrs without nobs p*ssing around.

        1. V AKA Frilly Keane

          As the lad said

          Judge me in the end

          Until then ye are not comparing like with like
          And anyone that does is simply acting the …..X

          There is no valuable or qualitative information to be extracted from the variables currently being produced
          And used to enhance arguments

          1. Listrade

            For what it’s worth, my own opinion is we’re fooped. The one thing we didn’t need to become a partisan issue has become one and we can’t go back. No politician will be strong enough to admit a mistake. Everyone is expert in an area there aren’t really any experts. Everyone has an answer to something where there isn’t an answer, but that answer depends on which bit of the political spectrum you pinned your support to.

            There is no allowance for context or grey area in any debate and the problem with a pandemic of a new virus is it is all grey areas with only small points of data.

            We know COVID clusters are in densely populated areas mainly poorer areas. But we also know that these areas are the worst effected by any lockdown. But we don’t discuss it or try and fix it without some politicised-bull. And on it goes.

            The biggest irony and most telling thing in all of this? Back in February through to a few weeks into the lockdown, it was the conspiracy “nuts” who were saying that we should wear masks and pointing to data from China and South Korea and Hong Kong. The Believe crowd went with the no mask required line. Then when it became official policy, the views switched almost completely. I just think that is telling and not someone’s personal liberty or belief in science.

            Anyway, FF, FG, G, Trump, Boris, Q, Gemma, whoever. Poor people are most impacted by the virus. Poor people are most impacted by lockdown. Your chosen idol doesn’t give a fup about you or the poor all you’re doing is helping them in their own person careers.

            Sorry, nearly forgot: something something fascists and for the other side: something something libtards

        2. Alexander the Great

          People are either going to die now
          Or die later
          In Sweden’s case they chose to let more people for example the vulnerable die earlier
          It’s that simple

  2. dav

    I see covid cases are spiking in counties outside of Dublin – wonder if those same counties supplied anti-maskers to the march in Dublin 2 weeks back?

    1. GiggidyGoo

      Could the exodus of jackeens down the country during the fine weather spreading their goodwill. Could be particular, erm, industries. Who knows?

        1. GiggidyGoo

          Or as in actual season – the change to the summer season. But you knew that Cian, but had to be disingenuous. It doesn’t make you look smart by the way. The opposite perhaps.

      1. Junkface

        Yes it also hit Australia and New Zealand during the opposite seasons to us. So what is this seasonal virus bull? I don’t remember the common cold being rampant during the Spring and summer ever before. A novel corona virus means that is a new strain of this type and therefore has a lot of unknown characteristics and symptoms.

    2. V AKA Frilly Keane

      Wouldn’t be surprised if those spikes are actually reflections of the ebb n flow of testing capacity, and turn around ability in the different HSE locations
      Largely to do with manpower availability and planning
      Most temps were only on three and six month contracts
      Sick leave Job Share Flexi time
      Nothing is straight forward in any one work shift in the Healthcare business

      Some centres are two weeks + to return a result
      In Dublin I am aware of a 4 hour turnaround

      There are numerous elements to factor in
      test center by test centre
      GP cover by County
      Available manpower by location
      Lab by lab
      Local Hospital / HSE management budgets

      Instead of looking for ways to point at protesters
      And believe me there were a few there I’d love to see removed from our public spaces in the name of protecting the general well-being of the population
      You might want to consider that schools reopening was always going to see nationwide spikes – even by parish
      Or County Final ….

      Just saying

      Being far too quick to finger point caught plenty people out before

    1. Cian

      Your link says

      The Department of Health said it was confident sufficient supplies would arrive in coming weeks: “The HSE is in daily contact with the manufacturer. This delay is affecting all customers, not just Ireland.”

      This suggests the problem is with the supplier not the HSE.

        1. Cian

          Fair enough. But that’s all in your head.

          I’ve never heard of any issues with the flu vaccine any other year – so the HSEs’ track record with ordering vaccine is very good.
          HSE have extended the free flu vaccine to kids, so there would have been a bigger order this year. It is quite plausible that other countries have also increased their orders.
          The link says the problem is with the supplier and all other countries are affected.

          But your conclusion is that the HSE messed up.

          1. GiggidyGoo

            You wrote ‘I’ve never heard of any issues with the flu vaccine any other year’ –
            there was a two-week delay last year by Sanofi. As I say, GIYF (I suppose, only if you want it to be)

          2. Cian

            @GiggidyGoo
            if *you* want to make a point *you* need to provide evidence.
            If you don’t provide evidence, I can chose to ignore it out of hand.

          3. GiggidyGoo

            But Bisted – Sanofi is just one manufacturer of 20+. I think you just cut yourself.

            And Cian – I don’t have to prove my points to you. If you disagree, then say why you disagree. Saying it’s out of hand is lame. Your usual duck, dive, divert, distract.

          4. Cian

            I have already said why.
            You have made some vague accusations – without a shred of supporting evidence.

            I don’t disagree – there isn’t anything to disagree with.

          5. SOQ

            You are a paid shill Cian, we all know this. Being gay does not excuse what you are doing- quite the opposite.

    2. Just Sayin

      So what, the flue vaccine doesn’t work anyway, especially not for old people.
      (Other vaccines do work, I’m not an anti-vaxxer)

      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486407
      https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/09/19/growing-concern-about-lockdown-from-doctors-in-belgium/

      What we need instead is Vitamin D (and work on our metabolic health)

      https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/covid-19/finally-confirmed-vitamin-d-nearly-abolishes-icu-risk-in-covid-19
      https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076020302764
      https://www.grassrootshealth.net/blog/vitamin-d-prevent-flu-epidemic/

      That vitamin D is effective in reducing the risk of the flu has been demonstrated several times in randomized controlled clinical trials. The first one was the post hoc analysis of influenza and colds developed by postmenopausal African American women living on Long Island, NY. At the start of the trial, the average vitamin D level was 19 ng/ml (47 nmol/l). During the three year study, there were 30 respiratory tract infections in 312 person-years on the placebo, eight infections in 208 person-years on 800 IU/day vitamin D, but only one case in 104 person-years for those taking 2000 IU/day. The achieved vitamin D level of the placebo group did not change significantly throughout the study, those given vitamin D had an average level of 28 ng/ml after 3 months at 800 IU/day, and 35 ng/ml after 3 months at 2000 IU/day. Compared to the placebo group, those taking 2000 IU/day saw a 90% reduced risk of respiratory infections!

      90% for vitamin D

      Why are our government not pushing this (for influenza, with the bonus that it may help covid too)?

      Could it be that the pharma companies would prefer they push vaccines instead (and pharma companies have money)

      It’s much easier for the govt to say get a vaccine, rather than “Ooops this nonsence we’ve been pushing for years is bullshit”, then try to educate the public on alternatives like Vitamin D without them appearing to be mad raving anti-vaxxers.

      Matt Hancock in the UK has his head in the sand too, but at least the Labour opposition there are challenging him. (do we still have a Labour party, I havnt heard from them in ages)
      https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1308063924844199939

    3. Rosette of Sirius

      Flu vaccines in short supply elsewhere too. Talking to a pal in Austria yesterday and same there. From clinics public and private to pharmacies. I imagine it will be the same the world over as demand will certainly outstrip supply.

  3. Birdie

    The whole focus on Rachel Allen’s son is really not on. It’s like someone has an axe to grind with her. Obviously the kid is going through stuff and I’m sure it’s so stressful for the family too.

    1. Micko

      Yeah, it’s really not fair.

      He never chose to be in the spotlight.

      Should be treated like a regular citizen

    2. Brother Barnabas

      its appalling – he’s 19 years old (and theyve been on his case since he was, what, 16?). not many of us behaved impeccably when we were teenagers.

      1. Janet, dreams of big guns

        thank god it was before phones with cameras and social media, I’d hate to be a youngun now

    3. Q Celt

      I don’t think Rachel and granny’s shiny pure holier than thou demeanor helps, as the lad’s behaviour is a contrast to that

    4. Alexander the Great

      Why don’t you extend the same concern to our kids of politicians and leaders? Every day on these pages their parents are often viciously and hastily attacked in the most personalized way. We don’t hear you guys then!

  4. Ian-Oh

    Guy rapes sleeping 17 year old waiting to watch a Conor McGegor fight at 5AM.

    Conor does attract a certain sort.

    1. Junkface

      Come on now! That’s taking guilt by association to an extreme! Not a healthy mindset.

      I used to watch Tyson fights as a kid like many of us, does that make us guilty of something?

  5. scottser

    ‘only a united front will beat the virus’ says boris. ‘except cummings oviously, he can go where he pleases even if he’s highly infectious and not fit to drive.’
    marvellous.

    1. ian-oh

      Daily Express, nary a day goes by that they don’t have a ‘isn’t Boris just the best?!’ headline.

      Its beyond ridiculous how much they rim him.

    1. Janet, dreams of big guns

      I actually hate this daily comment of yours, it gets right under my skin, I wish you’d pack it in. Is it meant to be scary ? It’s not, it’s figures without any details of each case.

      Broadsheet could we dedicate one thread a day as a covid free space, mental holiday, I don’t care what it’s about, food, books , mickeys, that’s why Nick’s Friday music thread is so relaxing

      1. Cian

        I’m sorry Janet, I don’t mean to scare anyone.

        There are certain posters telling us that it’s all over, we need to reopen society, that the increases in positive tests can be ignored as it due to “false positives” or “picking up dead cells”, or “fake news”.

        I want to show that there is still an issue. That the numbers are increasing – they have doubled in the last fortnight. Real people are affected – there are over a hundred families today that have loved ones in hospital – and they can’t visit them. And, unfortunately – some of them will die.

        1. scottser

          in fairness cian, you can’t turn on a tv, radio or read a paper without being preached at and warned.
          all this argument about who’s right and still they’re all wrong. i wish everyone would just fukn give over, tbh.

        1. GiggidyGoo

          Just bringing your attention to your engagement in cherry-picking. If you’re going to give out cherry-picked figures, then your posts are distracting from the overall stats. To what end?
          Your post is looking at one day as well, is it not?

          1. Cian

            No. It is showing where we are today AND including the context of the last few weeks to show that the number has been steadily increasing for 5 weeks.

            I also provide a link to the data to allow you look at everything and make your own decision.

          2. f_lawless

            How about regular updates on the death rates and hospital admissions for all causes rather than just Covid-19, Cian?

            I think the danger of focusing incessantly on Covid-19 alone creates an atmosphere where nothing else seems to matter; where its possible we can lose perspective on the level of threat that Covid-19 presents to society relative to other potential threats

          3. Cian

            f_lawlwss – I don’t have that data.
            But as long as you/SOQ and others downplay the impact covid I’m happy to highlight the actual data.

      1. Micko

        The fact that we don’t get the stats anymore for cases and deaths is very worrying.

        We used to get, median age of cases and deaths, the mean of cases and deaths, Minutes of NPHET’s meetings and lots more.

        Now we just get “cases are rising and it’s all your fault”, with no other real solution than ‘avoid other people’ or lockdowns.

        I’m sick of it.

        And the government is bloody laughing at us arguing over masks and restrictions.

        There’s only one group to blame for all this and it is nobody on this website.

  6. Rob_G

    In other, non-Covid poo-show news:

    Dublin City Council votes to maintain property tax cut. As ever FF, FG, and SF opposed any increase, Green and Labour supported it.

    Fair play to the Greens and Labour; more of the same from FF and FG, and of course SF talking out of both sides of their mouths as usual

    1. Junkface

      We need new rules for politicians in Gov’t. They cannot be landlords, it is an unacceptable conflict of interest. TD’s who are landlords should have their vote on rental/ tenant related issues nulled.

      1. Cian

        Why only landlords?
        Should a politician that is a tenant be similarly neutralized?

        The government implemented laws to prevent evictions at the start of the pandemic. Should the landlord TDs have opted not to vote?

        Should the farmer TDs not vote on anything related to agriculture?
        Should the TDs with an income not vote on the budget – which sets tax rates?

        1. Junkface

          Landlords have so much power in terms of the rental market and financial stability compared to the average tenant. Many of them have abused it for years, but I understand there are also accidental landlords who have a different story.

          Another reason why landlords are different is because Dublin still has some of the highest rents in the EU. Even after the lockdown and financial ruin of many industries. Dublin rent is still ridiculously high for what you are getting compared to other countries, and for no real reason. Is Dublin thriving right now? Sure does not seem like it, looks more like a ghost town. Yet the already wealthy don’t budge much, while watching the middle class and working class go through their savings to keep their rented homes, while on less money or having lost their jobs.

      1. bisted

        …I read that as the shinners saying no new taxes…after their stance on water taxes, labour shouldn’t be giving any lectures…and the greens have no credibility after their last term propping up the FFers…

        1. Vanessanelle

          In the one Municipality that could have absorbed a hike in LPT
          Even to fund Social Housing

          Sinn Fein in DCC have disgraced themselves IMO

          and this is the same CC that were playing cash to “local security” at a Social Housing Build site, not to stop gurriers getting in, but to allow work proceed,
          We’re not talking fifty yoyos out of the petty cash tin either

          and in the backyard of one of their poll toppers last February

  7. Vanessanelle

    But in more important news

    Bake Off is back this evening
    Same place same time

    But with the small fella from Little Britain for Sandi
    We’ll see I suppose, personally I don’t think the producers made the best use of her when they had her

    Anyway, just to advance on some concerns

    The producers held everyone in isolation for two weeks before climing into the tent together and getting the 1st signature under way
    and then kept everyone on site – in the tent as it were for the entire duration

    Basically, a fully closed unit for the full series run

    And when filming wrapped and the new Bake Off Champion was plated up, everyone was put back into two weeks isolation before going back home etc

    so there might be some interesting stories coming our way about practice bakes
    and rooming together

    Enjoy everyone
    xV

  8. Shayna

    On a happy note – Shayna’s new windows have arrived in Belfast. To be fitted on Thursday. Only 9 months later than expected. Tyrone contractor. There’ll be a few cups of tea and discussions over how we were cheated by Dublin in ’95 – etc. The boss plays golf with Kevin McCabe – {The Prince of Tyrone} – he kicked the ball over the bar from a penalty in The All-Ireland Football Final against Kerry in ’86.

  9. Charger Salmons

    Max Headroom still struggling to make the big breakthrough against Boris.

    Conservatives 40% (-5)
    Labour 37% (-)
    LibDem 8% (+2)
    Green 5% (-)

    IpsosMORI Sep 11 – 18

    Conservative 40% (-2)
    Labour 37% (-)
    LibDem 8% (+1)

    SavantaComRes Sep 18-20

    People have long memories of failed Brexit blocking, silence on Labour’s anti-semitism under Corbyn and preposterous virtue signalling.

    http://www.melaniephillips.com/keir-starmer-magical-thinking/

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