Waiting For Glaxo

at

Last Friday’s Late Late Show.

Damian writes:

Nothing on Tubridy’s weird address to the nation? Somebody got to you?

Meanwhile…

Fight!

Previously: Ivor Lot Of Questions?

220 thoughts on “Waiting For Glaxo

  1. frank

    There is no vaccine for corona viruses. We have tried to find one since ancient Egyptian times and it cannot be done.
    Also let’s just dream for a moment and say modern medicine bucks thousands of years of searching and finds the holy grail, a vaccine for Corona virus strain Covid19 / SARS COV2 . Let’s imagine they find it in the USA. So that’s 331million people that have to get that vaccine before you think it’s your turn. Will Ireland be next in turn to acquire that vaccine??
    Even if a vaccine can be found (not likely) it will be years and years before it’s your turn to be vaccinated.

    Go out and get the bloody thing that’s your cure

    1. Joe Small

      “..since ancient Egyptian times..” when no one on Earth could even see a virus, let alone try develop a vaccine.

      1. frank

        A cure for corona virus in the Ebers Papyrus (a medical document from ancient Egypt 1550BC) – an incantation and breast milk.

    2. Papi

      “Also let’s just dream for a moment and say modern medicine bucks thousands of years of searching”

      Ehhmm, what? Like X-rays for example? Or antibiotics?

      Someone hasn’t waited for the sauce, obviously.

      1. frank

        The search for a vaccine for corona viruses.
        A vaccine for corona viruses has been searched for thousands of years.
        There is none

          1. frank

            @junkface & Millie
            coronaviruses are colds.
            There is no vaccine for ‘the cold’.
            There are no vaccines for coronaviruses.
            This has eluded medicine for thousands of years.

            @junkface you know Edward Jenner didn’t find a vaccine for every virus. Don’t you?

          2. frank

            Correct @Nigel.
            The search for a vaccine for coronaviruses began over 3500 thousand years ago with the Egyptians. In reality of course that is just the first recorded ‘cure’ for the cold. I’m sure the search began thousands of years before that with your close relations the cavemen.
            I appreciate this confounds you but there you go.

            I’ll give it another go…
            For thousands of years mankind, medicine, science – from it’s most primitive beginnings right up to now (no vaccine found for SARS COV1 nearly 20 years ago) has searched for a vaccine for coronaviruses. The cure eludes modern science the very way it did 3500 years ago.

          3. frank

            @newsjustin SARS COV1 2002. No vaccine.
            As for incentive. Perhaps that’s a ‘conspiracy theory’ too far!!
            All the pharmaceutical giants make billions every year from ‘treatments’ for coronaviruses and indeed all colds: rhinovirus, influenza, parainfluenza virus, adenovirus, respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) and metapneumovirus. Not to mention the thousands of branches from each one of those. If a vaccine could be found whilst the entire global population would need to take this vaccine (good money in that) it would make the insanely lucrative ‘treatments’ industry redundant.

          4. newsjustin

            But COVID19 is not the common cold. Vaccines for one, treatments for the other.

            Don’t be so pessimistic. No one went to the moon either before a) we had the technology to and b) before we turned our human efforts to do it.

          5. frank

            @newsjustin
            Covid19 is a coronavirus.
            A coronavirus is one of the many types of cold.

            The point is that no vaccine will be found. That’s not pessimistic that’s based on the fact that thousands of people have tried for thousands of years. Huge effort has been put into this to no avail.

            My other point is which is blithely ignored is that EVEN IF (see that’s optimistic) a vaccine can be found it will be years and years before we get access to it (that’s realistic).

            So the party line especially from Varadkar & Tubridy et al should not be ‘lets’ all wait for the vaccine… it’s coming… i can sense it.
            That’s a lie and it should not be peddled.

          6. Junkface

            @Frank

            I don’t think you understand what a vaccine is. The very concept of a vaccine did not exist until Edward Jenner in 1796. How could the Ancient Egyptians even be looking for something which did not exist for another 2000 to 3000 years! Good God man, read some history. Very funny. Also science in terms of medical science/ modern science was something that evolved during the enlightenment period. No Ancient Egyptians were scientists.

            We all understand that covid 19 is related to the corona virus family, same family as the common cold, we have all been awake for the last 6 months.

          7. frank

            @junkface The point I have so laboriously illustrated is that a vaccine (a cure) has been sought since time immemorial. None has been found.

            Why Junkface, you well read fellow, do you think we will happen on one now??
            and further why do you think Ireland will be first (or second or third) on the list for inoculation??

            Also, and just for your delectation. Don’t you suppose? now wait a moment and have a think about this. Don’t you suppose that in the centuries nay the millennia prior to 1796 that shamen, holymen, priests even gods didn’t consider, dwell, devote their lives and seek A CURE A VACCINE or whatever word in their primitive knowledgeless tongue for the maladies of their afflicted?

            I would suggest that prior to the coining of the word ‘vaccine’ in 1796 that those learned fellows (even the guys who thought they were gods) applied themselves vigorously to the task.
            But alas they could not find a cure for coronavirus. As we won’t now.

          8. Janet, dreams of big guns

            if you think dragging ancient egypt into any discussion about health is going to make you look credible you need to take a pause Frankie

          9. frank

            why Papi? Let’s recap:
            Since the dawn of time we have suffered coronaviruses.
            Since the dawn of time we have tried to find a cure for coronaviruses.
            A cure cannot be found.
            Zoom forward to today. Well 20 years ago.
            SARS COV1. A deadly strain of coronavirus sweeps the world.
            A cure cannot be found.
            Forward to today 2020.
            SARS COV2.
            Will a cure be found for this coronavirus?
            Let’s have a look at the form (see above).
            NO.
            —INTERLUDE—
            !!!Lightening strike!!!
            A cure is found.
            Hooray!
            When will we get it?
            In a few years.
            Oh
            –exit stage left pursed by a bear–

          10. Papi

            frank, you’re far too entertaining to try to convince otherwise, this is pure gold.
            Next, are there small people in the tellybox? We ask shamans from Egypt what they think.

          11. frank

            @Janet
            the point ‘of dragging ancient Egypt’ into this is because, again….
            coronaviruses (aka the cold or variant thereof) have been with us for a very, very, very, very long time.
            As far back as the flipping Egyptians and I would wager much further back then them lads. We have sought a cure for coronaviruses.

            Janet dear, I’m not saying the bloody Egyptians had more knowledge than us. I’m saying CORONAVIRUSES HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND NO CURE HAS EVER BEEN FOUND.

          12. frank

            @Papi
            Do you think a vaccine will be found for SARS COV2 / COVID19?
            When do you think Ireland will have access to this vaccine?

          13. Papi

            frank, i’d reckon the lads today have a tad more chance than your “shamen, holymen, priests even gods”
            But, please, don’t let me stop you.

          14. frank

            @Papi
            The point you are refusing to accept (because you cannot engage with the argument and instead prefer to divert and waffle) is that a cure for anyone of the many coronaviruses in the millenia we have have lived with those viruses has not been found.
            So you reckon ‘the lads today’ stand a better chance. Why? SARS COV1 after almost 20 years has no vaccine. The 50 years of research in the CCU in the uk yielded no cure.
            so
            Do you think a vaccine will be found for SARS COV2 / COVID19?
            When do you think Ireland will have access to this vaccine?

          15. newsjustin

            Frank, I think the reason you’ve had to try to restate your point over and over again here is that nobody, least of all you, has an iota of a clue about what point you’re trying to make.

          16. frank

            @newsjustin
            Sure I’ll try with you again. I’ll go slower if you so you can really feel it.

            Coronaviruses have been around forever. -This is my first point-
            Nobody has found a cure. -This is my second point-

            Why do you think a cure can be found now? -this is my first logically reasoned assertion-
            Why do you think Ireland would be at the top of the queue for inoculation? -this is my second logically reasoned assertion-

            take your time. have a think.

          17. Janet, dreams of big guns

            cancer has been around forever, often it can now be successfully treated and cured thanks to modern advances in medicine,
            cholera has been around for ever ( the word derives from an ancient greek word meaning diarrhea ) it is now treated and prevented due to .. you guessed it modern advances
            and I could go on and on
            your point is just a bit silly

          18. frank

            @janet
            FWI cancer is not a virus. You know this I hope!

            Cancers are treatable with TREATMENT. are they curable?
            that depends on the survivability rate over 5/10/20 years etc.
            Is there a cure for cancer. No.
            Is there a vaccine for cancer. No.

            my point(s) are not silly.
            There is no vaccine for Coronavirus
            Why do you think a cure can be found now?
            Why do you think Ireland would be at the top of the queue for inoculation?

        1. frank

          HPV is a virus that can lead to cancer.
          REPEAT- cancer is not a virus
          YOU CANNOT CATCH CANCER AS YOU DO A VIRUS

          Again
          @janet & @bisted
          FWI cancer is not a virus. You know this I hope!

          Cancers are treatable with TREATMENT. are they curable?
          that depends on the survivability rate over 5/10/20 years etc.
          Is there a cure for cancer. No.
          Is there a vaccine for cancer. No.

          my point(s) are not silly.
          There is no vaccine for Coronavirus
          Why do you think a cure can be found now?
          Why do you think Ireland would be at the top of the queue for inoculation?

          1. Janet, dreams of big guns

            cervical cancer is caused by a virus
            you can avoid the virus with a vaccine and in turn the cancer,
            not that hard to understand

  2. Micko

    Having this week getting the TV channels back after a few years without them, I cannot believe the amount of fear propaganda I’ve watched in the last three days alone from RTÉ.

    No wonder people are terrified out of their minds.

    RTÉ’s own advert for ‘fake news’ is mental FFS.

    https://youtu.be/AZsPexZqDXw

    1. Janet, dreams of big guns

      yup, it’s a constant diet of negativityand aimed aimed at the most easily frightened, the older generation who still watch that crap

      1. E'Matty

        RTE is fake news. More often as a result of omission though they use the framing method used by all western media outlets when pushing fake news and propaganda. So, for years RTE and other msm outlets sold us the “moderate rebels” nonsense for the Anglo American led regime change project in Syria, just like they’d sold the freedom and democracy BS for Iraq and Libya. They sell every US backed coup attempt be it in Eastern Europe or Latin America or Asia as wonderful pro democracy movements. They repeatedly make reference to Russian State interference in the US election of 2016, despite there being not a single piece of actual objectively verifiable evidence to support the claim. Their scaremongering misrepresentation of the facts on Covid is terrorising the elderly of the country. They never challenge the garbage, simply preferring to amplify it. People like you live in an echo chamber of western corporate propaganda. Anything outside of that you consider fake news. Open minded people read from all sources, even those they disagree with, and let evidence determine their understanding of issues and events. You should try reading a book every now and again, and not just 50 shades or Harry Potter.

  3. broadbag

    Why anyone (I was going to type under 80, but no, anyone) would watch that turgid drivel is beyond me, he’s horrendously overpaid and under talented so stop encouraging him!

  4. David J

    Why does Broadsheet keep giving attention to the crank Ivor Cummins. He has absolutely no qualifications that should lead any of us to believe him. He cherry picks data (such as on Sweden, while ignoring neighboring countries, the USA and Brazil) and makes false statements as if they were fact. If you want an opinion, there are hundreds of real doctors out there who you could quote.
    If you’re talking to him again, ask him what are these $100 million projects he was working on and with what companies because I can find nothing about them on google.

    1. SOQ

      And why should it be doctors, specifically epidemiologists, specifically a certain group of epidemiologists, who’s opinion only matters? As per my link in the papers, even within that particular field there is serious disagreements as how to proceed.

      https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/09/22/wednesdays-papers-50/#comment-2243299

      When you have the likes of Professor Carl Heneghan from Oxford University:endorsing Ivor’s work- you can be certain that he is far from a crank.

      1. David J

        Because at least the Doctors are looking at this scientifically and Ivor is some guy on youtube with a twitter page selecting small amounts of data that fits his viewpoints and gets him more youtube views and retweets.

        1. SOQ

          Ivor is looking at it scientifically- just a different branch of science- data science.

          Remember that this whole mess started with data science, in particular the subset called data modelling which is predictive and very easy to get wrong.

          Data analytics however is based on historical pattern recognition which is a lot easier to peer review because it is the interpretation of facts and figures.

          I trust the analytics over modelling every single time because there is way less unknowns. I have worked with both btw.

          1. Cian

            I agree that data science is important.
            I agree that analyzing actual data is usually a lot more reliable than modelling data.

            But I don’t think Ivor is doing any data analysis. He trawls the net looking for pretty pictures of data that agrees with his worldview and does youtube videos about them.

          2. f_lawless

            That’s some desperate trolling there Cian

            Cummins’ research on the nature of cardiovascular disease and insulin resistance in relation to diet, challenged several years of orthodox thinking among the medical establishment and his research was taken very seriously- so much so, that in recent years he presented his insights at annual conferences for both the British Association of Cardiovascular Prevention and Rehabilitation and also the Irish National Institute of Preventative Cardiology.

            Also as he said in the Broadsheet Q & A, he has several years’ experience working as a complex problem solver in a high-level corporate environment.
            His credentials are impressive

          3. SOQ

            He applied the principles of probably the most detailed book every written on the seasonal patterns of influenza to CoVid-19- hardly just “looking at pretty pictures” I think.

            Did you see Sunetra Gupta wipe the floor with that Trinity bloke last night F? This despite not being her first language and a hostile Miriam O’Callaghan.

          4. Cian

            @f_lawless
            Sorry, I should possibly have been more clear. I’m not talking about Ivor’s career in general. I’m talking about his various youtube videos and tweets on COVID (just like everyone else on this thread).

            @SOQ
            He applied the principles of probably the most detailed book every written on the seasonal patterns of influenza to CoVid-19
            what does that actually mean? “applied the principles”? read a book and looked at a chart and thought – that looks familiar!

            I haven’t seen any original work from Ivor (granted I haven’t followed him that closely) but the tweets & videos I’ve watched are all just pictures compiled by other people (and he often mis-attributes these).

          5. Cian

            Seriously. I said “I haven’t seen any original work from Ivor […] videos I’ve watched are all just pictures compiled by other people” and you link to a video of him talking over pictures compiled by other people.

            He has just stated (1 minute in) “the virus rapidly hits around 20% of the population so around 80%, it’s becoming clear, are already de facto immune through […]”
            WITH ZERO EVIDENCE!! He is literally pulling numbers out of thin air.

            That same curve is displays for non-influenza diseases.
            This is cholera: https://twitter.com/WHOEMRO/status/1099633446157205505/photo/2

          6. SOQ

            The community immunity figure is 25% according to infectious disease epidemiologists like Sunetra Gupta so Ivor is not far wrong.

          7. Rob_G

            “Also as he said in the Broadsheet Q & A, he has several years’ experience working as a complex problem solver in a high-level corporate environment.”

            So do I; so do lots of people. I don’t think that makes me smarter than the world’s epidemiologists and virologists, though.

          8. Cian

            @SOQ
            1. Sunetra Gupta may very well be correct, but it’s not what Ivor stated
            2. Ivor didn’t provide any evidence for this statement.
            We all know the infection-rate/death rate peaked – the question is why? Some people say it was the lockdown (+hand washing/ social distancing/ working from home/ etc). Ivor disagrees and his whole shtick is that the infection rate stopped because of this. And he provides zero evidence – just a statement “80% are already de facto immune”? and we are looking at 5

          9. Cian

            @SOQ
            I just watched more of hat video (first time it started at the start, just now i opened mid-way through).
            He is talking rubbish. There aren’t different flu seasons in the USA. There isn’t a “Mexico-like” flu season.

            Here is a map showing the 2016/17 flu season accross the US. All states have widespread flu end of Jan start of Feb.
            https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/12/04/heres-a-look-at-the-stats-around-flu-season-plus-tips-to-avoid-getting-sick/

            Look up Florida Flu season: Peaks in Jan/Feb
            Mexico Flu season: peaks in the months of January and February

            There is no truth to his “different parts of USA have different flu seasons”.

          10. SOQ

            He laid the seasonal patterns of Hope- Simpson over the fatality rates of the each US section, then allocated to a respective temperate zone.

            The reason for doing that was to explain why the fatality patterns differed across the US- and to discount this second wave nonsense.

            Flu seasons do not fit neatly into large countries no matter what anyone says- they are primarily driven by climate and weather and yes- seasons.

            Why is the US split into different time zones if it is all the same?

          11. David J

            I work in a lab for a multi-national and 75% of my job is data driven. I use UNIX, JMP/JSL, python and excel mostly and one thing I know is that data is very important, but understanding the data is the most important thing for making summations from that data. If he is not an expert in the field the data is useless to him.
            A quick look through his twitter shows he is retweeting people calling covid-19 a fraud, Graphs which show Sweden’s death rate is lower this year than in previous years (its 10% higher for the first half of this year https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/19/sweden-records-highest-death-tally-in-150-years-in-first-half-of-2020) and seems to be contradicting himself by his posts and retweets. Who knows where he actually stands? Lets listen to the real professionals

          12. SOQ

            Real professionals like data modellers? Real professionals in the UK who are now predicting 50 000 a week infections and 2000 dead without ever considering the opinions of people like Carl Heneghan or Sunetra Gupta and José Lourenço?

            And that is not even looking at what The Swedes are saying.

          13. f_lawless

            @Cian In reference to the 20% figure , I posted a link last July to this research which Gupta is linked to. Here it is again. Maybe a more productive approach would be look things up yourself before impulsively writing dismissive comments that Cummins is plucking figures out of thin air?

            https://www.immunology.ox.ac.uk/covid-19/covid-19-immunology-literature-reviews/sars-cov-2-t-cell-epitopes-define-heterologous-and-covid-19-induced-t-cell-recognition

            ‘Lay summary’ published here:
            https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-35331/v1

            Cross-reactive SARS-CoV-2 T-cell epitopes revealed preexisting T-cell responses in 81% of unexposed individuals, and validation of similarity to common cold human coronaviruses provided a functional basis for postulated heterologous immunity[9] in SARS-CoV-2 infection”

          14. Cian

            Why is the US split into different time zones if it is all the same?
            Seriously? You are comparing time-zones to seasons?

            I’m actually speechless..

          15. Cian

            @f_lawless
            Interesting paper, but its too technical for me understand the details.
            1. It seems to be based on 350 people in a small university town in Germany. This might go towards explaining why Germany had relatively few COVID deaths – you can’t just extrapolate those numbers to the world.
            2. Even if there are many other studies showing similar results, Ivor didn’t mention any of these. He just said “20%”. This 20% immunity is key to his argument and he doesn’t back it up. If Ivor want’s to convince people that he has done his research he needs to show evidence – it shouldn’t be “an exercise for the reader” to look for supporting evidence.

          16. GiggidyGoo

            @Cian. Your usual attempt at distraction/diversion. SOQ wrote

            “Flu seasons do not fit neatly into large countries no matter what anyone says- they are primarily driven by climate and weather and yes- seasons.”

            The US has wide variations at the same time in climate and weather – and also seasons. Other smaller countries don’t have as wide variations at specific times but do have seasons and the variations season-to-season can be wide.

            You choose to choose ‘Seasons’ as a mantra. You’ve been on that hobby-horse this past few days, firstly trying to infer that SOQ’s reference to a season was to a ‘flu season’ and you duly tried to lambast him, to today’s (finally) realization that it refers to what can happen in the four seasons (Spring, Autumn, Summer, Winter)

          17. f_lawless

            @David J seems like you’re trying too hard. Ivor’s a “crank” who thinks Covid-19 is fake?! Come off it..

            You claim to appreciate the importance of understanding data as it’s part of your profession. That may be the case. I don’t recall reading any of your comments before today.so who am I to judge.

            But sharing such a Sweden-bashing Guardian clickbait article doesn’t help your credibility. “Sweden records highest death tally in 150 years in first half of 2020” is the alarming headline. But then tucked away in the middle of this article is this line “The population of Sweden was about 4.1 million then, compared with 10.3 million now” And yet nowhere in the article is there any attempt to adjust the any of the figures quoted according to Sweden’s year on year population growth. This is essentially propaganda.

          18. Cian

            @GiggidyGoo
            yes. The USA has seasons. All of it. At the same time.
            Summer in New York is also summer in Florida is also summer in Washington is also summer in California. The temperature is different, but they all follow the same seasons.

            As I posted above – they all follow the same flu season.
            Mexico has the same flu season.
            And you know what? their flu season is the same as ours!

            California COVID deaths – peaked on August. When is peak California flu season? January/February:
            https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/california/

            To keep it simple.
            1. other viruses have the same peak seasons across different European Countries (and US States, and Canada and Mexico)
            2. Covid has had widely different peaks across the same countries

            The death curve we see is just the shape of an epidemic… seasons are irrelevant to that shap.

          19. SOQ

            You really are missing the point Cian- the SHAPE of the infection pattern changes in different parts of the US- some following Europe and some following a more tropical curve.

            Again- the whole of this was to prove that it was not a second wave- as the hystericals were claiming.

            The CoVid Hystericals ©- I like that.

          20. GiggidyGoo

            So, Cian – lay out the Flu ‘seasons’ that you speak about (which you were trying to make fun of SOQ yesterday with) . From when-to-when. Where. And, more importantly, the basis for your pronouncements. As you were quick to say yesterday – why should we take your word for it without back-up reference information – the ‘keep it simple’ is a cop out?

          21. Cian

            Okay, I’m (slowly) getting his point.

            The “seasonal” part is only half the story – just as important is the regional aspect
            – Temperate zones have a nothing for half the year, and then a sharp winter spike;
            – Tropical zones have it year-round with a small winter spike.

            Temperate zones won’t get a “second wave” they’ll get a second “winter season”.
            Tropical zones won’t get a “second wave”… it’ll just keep going.

          22. Cian

            @GG
            Flu season (in Europe and N America) is primarily mid-Dec, Jan, Feb, and March.
            Dec and March are low, Jan and Feb are high.

            You can see the Irish figures for the last 20 years if you start here:
            https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/previousinfluenzaseasonssurveillancereports/

            Open any of the Summary reports (or indeed any of the weekly ones) and you’ll see a chart showing the cases over a 24 month period. There are two spikes – starting around week 50 through week16 – the peaks are between week 2 and 10.

            US figures are here: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm
            there a pretty map half-way down that you can select a year, and press play and it shows the flu activity across the 49 states.

    2. Junkface

      I was thinking that too! Why should anyone believe Ivor Cummins over the vast selection of medical experts and doctors out there?

    3. Formerly known as @ireland.com

      I am all the way with David J.

      We are down to 15 cases today in Melbourne. Locked down and curfew in place, mandatory masks once you leave your home – but we are getting close to zero. Unlike Ireland, we can control the borders, so we should be able to keep it out or at low numbers.

      Ivor is a project manager, not an epidemiologist. His opinion holds no value.

      1. SOQ

        So why were and are governments willing to wreck economies on the word of data modellers then?

        Modellers I might add who have not got one thing right so far.

          1. SOQ

            Neil Ferguson’s predictions were the basis for most of the worldwide panic but were proved to be in the ratio of 10-20 times out when Sweden followed the medical science and held their nerve.

            What you are saying is one branch of data science- a branch renown for getting things wrong- is preferable to another which is based on historical data and factual patterns.

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            Sweden “holding their nerve” killed a lot more than Ireland per head of population. But sheep, muzzles, vitamin D, blah blah blah.

          3. SOQ

            Did it- really?

            How many people will die due to lack of other health services? Bankruptcy? Unemployment? The list goes on and on.

            Never count the bodies until the war is over.

          4. E'Matty

            @SOQ. Yup and you should check out Ferguson’s predictions for SARs and MERs back in the day. It seems that being wildly wrong every time means you’re the kind of voice of authority all governments should listen to and wreck their economy on the back of. Truly bizarre.

      2. GiggidyGoo

        @Formerly.
        Just wondering – what if you do reach Zero? Will restrictions be lifted?.
        If you did get to Zero, how do you stop it re-emerging?
        If you can’t stop it re-emerging, then what?

  5. M

    Yeah, that ‘fake news’ ad was the idea of Jon Williams, RTE’s Managing Director of News and Current Affairs.

    Mr. Williams boasts of covering the 7/7 terror attacks for the BBC and ABC’s reporting of the war in Ukraine.

    Both were staged.

    That’s the kind of trust and integrity he’s talking about.

    1. Junkface

      7/7 London Terror attacks were not staged! Jesus…..we’ve lost a lot of souls to conspiracy theories already I see.

      1. Rob_G

        It’s not at all surprising that this is calibre of poster that this site attracts, given the editorial line that the site takes on… well, everything, really.

        1. Junkface

          Sure seems that way. Ignorance is in abundance lately with regards to basic truths and historical facts. I thought the Irish education school system was better than this, I mean I can understand Americans believing in nonsense and conspiracies as their education school system has been in the toilet for almost 40 years. It is surprising.

          Maybe it’s also a reflection of how prominent social media and youtube has become in people’s lives. Especially if they have no critical thinking skills.

      1. Junkface

        Oh God that is terrible. Sorry to hear that.

        As far as I remember there were a good few Irish citizens caught up in that attack on the way to work. Many Irish people must know some victims or be related to them. Conspiracy theorists never have a straight answer for where those people went.

        1. Janet, dreams of big guns

          it’s the most offensive thing someone can do, deny the death and loss of a very real man

          1. Daisy Chainsaw

            I had relatives and friends heading for work on various methods of public transport, thankfully none of them was caught up in the explosions, but they were caught in the gridlock for a while and there was the absolute terror that there could have been more explosions. I got messages that they were safe so I can only imagine how heartbreaking it was to lose a friend that day.

            It’s perverted to call 7/7 a false flag and M deserves every bit of bad luck s/he gets for the rest of their long, miserable life for saying that.

      2. E'Matty

        People were killed, the question though is whether it was in fact a “Jihadi attack” or a British Intel operation. The evidence actually points to the latter. It would appear the chaps who’s bags exploded were convinced they were just taking part in the training exercise for a terror attack on the very same stations and buses which was happening at precisely the same time. Same thing in Madrid and 911, all had training exercises simulating similar or exactly the same at the very same time. Check out the news interview on ITV on the day of the attacks with the organiser of the exercise who states it was based on “precisely the same scenario” with simultaneous attacks on the very same stations and bus routes at exactly the same time. But hey, you guys are coincidence theorists so no biggie..and besides, no way would the British intelligence community engage in such behaviour. Sure, they’re the goodies on our tv’s every night and our Hollywood movies aren’t they? Ah bless, the world is a much darker place than most seem willing or able to accept.

  6. M

    Also, the concept of ‘fake news’ arose in November 2016.

    The concept of Pizzagate arose in October 2016.

    I’m inclined to think the former was a bespoke solution to the latter.

  7. ce

    South Korea, Taiwan, China, New Zealand, Australia, many Africa nations adept at dealing with pandemics with virtually no health service etc…. Quite a diverse list of nations in terms of population densities, style of government, economic structure etc.

    If you are not talking about these places and comparing European and North/South American strategies to Covid then you don’t have a lot to say.

    1. SOQ

      South Korea, Taiwan, China, New Zealand, Australia all have health services as good if not better than our own.

      The question about Africa is why it has not spread like elsewhere- rather than it’s health services.

      1. frank

        Isn’t it thought that the reason it hasn’t ran completely rampant in China, Korea, Japan, Africa is that there is actually some immunity to it. As it has existed in these parts for quite some time but just hasn’t been previously identified

        1. SOQ

          Absolutely- SARS-Cov-1 and some common Coronas have been cited as providing some immunity.

          Also, SARS-Cov-2 has been found in sewage systems as far back as three months before CoVid-19 kicked off so current thinking is that there is one of more other factors at play- seasonal being the most obvious.

          1. SOQ

            Of course there is a seasonal element to it- so far it has followed the near exact same pattern as flu.

            Exclude the dodgy hyped case rates they keep screaming about and compare the hospitalisations against other respiratory illness right now- is there any difference?

          2. Formerly known as @ireland.com

            The seasonality may be that more people are indoors, in poor ventilation, thus making it easier to spread. Masks may help but you don’t want to hear things that don’t fit with your agenda.

          3. SOQ

            Current thinking is the seasonal element is to do with sunshine and Vitamin D I believe. Expecting it to behave like other seasonal viruses is having an agenda how?

          4. Cian

            Jeez, as i said on that other thread.
            if something has only been around 9 months – you can’t say it is “seasonal”.

            Anyway it’s not a “seasonal” curve – it’s a epidemic curve. All transmittable diseases show that same curve. You’re mistaking it as “seasonal” because there each year a *new* flu stain (or strains) passes through the susceptible population.

          5. SOQ

            We know that it reacts to sunlight, in particular UV- and we know that being in the sun produces Vitamin D- why else did it die down in the summer months?

            Not that it is going mad now either of course- no new ICU admissions and a net gain of 4 into hospital within the past 24 hours.

            What are the figures for other respiratory illnesses like?

            Anyone?

      2. ce

        Lot’s of other countries to look at with not so good health services doing quite okay – and yes possible there is some kind of immunity in certain places… but if you want to deal with a pandemic might want to look at the experts in Africa and Asia. The “Sweden” or “not Sweden” – the current approach… although it’s not really an approach more a selection of messes – are both awful options given that we’ll be dealing with this for, at best a year at worst 10 or more. Ultimately what do we all want to be able to do everyday with our lives and what will allow us to do that as much as possible – because nothing will be perfect – regardless of age/pre-existing condition. Also – and not advocating this – private hospitals could be taken over again to boost our crumbling public sector, but I don’t think it will happen.

          1. Slightly Bemused

            It was the mention of sauce that did it for me. Tonight, steak with pepper sauce. Not sure which whine to have with it

          2. Janet, dreams of big guns

            may I suggest for this combo

            Barbaresco from Piedmont, Italy.
            or Cabernet Sauvignon (partially oaked, dry) from Simonsberg-Stellenbosch, South Africa.
            or
            Shiraz/syrah and syrah blends e.g. with grenache and mourvèdre
            prehaps

            ‘Supertuscans’ and other modern Tuscan reds

          1. Janet, dreams of big guns

            A website called Hymns and Carols of Christmas has a great deal of lutefisk lore, but on the subject of drink it says only that “A light white wine is recommended”

    1. hansel

      Who could have guessed that relentless conspiracy theory news would have attracted the conspiracy theorists eh? I kept telling myself not to click on Broadsheet, but morbid curiosity got the better of me!

      It’s up there with the Journal comments section now. I really don’t think it was “the Jim Corr daily” until about March this year and then all hell broke loose. I’m genuinely done this time. Last post, last click.

      1. Slightly Bemused

        Never give up! Never surrener!

        But if you are going out there to the big wide world, take care of yourself. Been a pleasure trading comments with you :-)

  8. Hector Rameriz

    ‘Ireland’s top talk show host has morphed into being an immunologist-soothsayer synthesis…’

    One could almost say:

    ‘Ireland’s top talk $100m project manager has morphed into being an immunologist-soothsayer synthesis’

    1. Richie

      Yeah, the only difference between these two is that Tubs works for a semi-state body that is at least in part responsible for communicating the guidance of the HSE with respect to masks and physical distancing. Not sure who is backing Cummins (a qualified Engineer) to deliver advice about epidemiological matters.

  9. E'Matty

    A cursory look at the history of coronaviruses and respiratory viruses reveals a long pattern of vaccine derived virus interference and Antibody-Dependant enhancement.

    Professor Ian Frazer, Australian immunologist responsible for developing the HPV vaccine, and an Honorary Fellow of RCPI “One of the problems with corona vaccines in the past has been that when the immune response does cross over to where the virus-infected cells are it actually increases the pathology rather than reducing it,” Professor Frazer said.

    “So that immunisation with SARS corona vaccine caused, in animals, inflammation in the lungs which wouldn’t otherwise have been there if the vaccine hadn’t been given.”. This vaccine interference causing cytokine storms in the test mice resulted in the abandonment of the SARs vaccine trials in 2003, with the mice becoming MORE susceptible to the virus.

    We also saw Influenza vaccination and respiratory virus interference among Department of Defense personnel during the 2017-2018 influenza season. Vaccine derived virus interference was significantly associated with coronavirus and human metapneumovirus. Some “debunkers” claim this has relevenace to Covid, despite the fact it clearly shows a history of coronavirus family viruses and vaccine interference resulting in cytokine storms.

    Another study in 2013 found that Vaccine-Induced Anti-HA2 Antibodies Promote Virus Fusion and Enhance Influenza Virus Respiratory Disease.

    In 1967, infants and toddlers immunized with a formalin-inactivated vaccine against respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) experienced an enhanced form of RSV disease characterized by high fever, bronchopneumonia, and wheezing when they became infected with wild-type virus in the community. Hospitalizations were frequent, and two immunized toddlers died upon infection with wild-type RSV.

    Now, ask yourself why nobody in the irish medical community or political class have been willing to discuss what is causing the cytokine storms, which they have admitted are the cause of the worst Covid effects. Then ask yourself who gets the flu vaccine very year? The elderly, vulnerbale, and of coruse, medical staff. So, given all of this, how should one view the current government’s attempt to get everyone of all ages to get the flu vaccine this year? Positively murderous.

        1. E'Matty

          so, I provide quite a bit of documented factual information on vaccine interference and the history of same with coronaviruses, and the resulting cytokine storms, and you think of aliens. Interesting….

      1. E'Matty

        no comment on them. I have no idea what those fella were up to back then. Have you any comment on the information I have provided? Refuting or otherwise?

          1. E'Matty

            @Nigel, very rarely ever were. False flags have been an operational tool of military, intel and political forces (or their equivalent of the time) for hundreds of years (arguably even much longer). It’s easier to herd the cattle to where you want when they beg for the solution you already want but know they would never have acceded to without the “crisis” induced fear. Frightened people are extremely maleable.

          2. GiggidyGoo

            Yourself and Daisy are getting your asses handed to you big time in all fairness. Your come-backs are extremely infantile.

          3. Daisy Chainsaw

            Having my ass handed to me by an antivaxx, antimask donkey doesn’t mean as much to me as it obviously does to you.

    1. Junkface

      @E’Matty

      That sure is a lot of information. Do you work in Science or medical science? I’ve never heard of Cytokine before. I would need further reading to know what point or dangers you are warning about.

      All I will say is that I have taken the Flu vaccine 3 years in a row, no side effects. My parents in their early 70’s have taken it every year for a decade, no side effects. What exactly is the murderous intention here on behalf of the Health service or political class?

    2. realPolithicks

      FFS the nonsense being posted on here is reaching epic levels. Diarrhea of the mouth in written form from all these “experts” like ematty, soq and giggidy. What will you become expert on once the “rona” has moved on?

      1. E'Matty

        @realPolithicks – great response pal. Care to refute a single point I have made? I am happy to debate any aspect of what I have presented. Indeed, if you wish to challenge me on a particular point, I may even be willing to put a wager on the result (donation to charity only though, limited to €100). It would of course only be gentlemanly of you to agree the same if you should lose. So, choose your point of contention and if I am prepared to defend it, let’s put our money where our mouth is (though typing fingers might have been more appropriate) and play.

      2. Anyone

        You just might look back on this with fond admiration of the manic interplay between the Giggidy-Goo / SOQ / E’Matty / Pat Mustard and Cian / Janet / Daisy / Rob_G / Nigel squads. I read it daily and it never fails to entertain and inform. Rejoice at the ‘argumentum ad Hominem ad Nauseum. Great over a cup of tea and a biscuit. Just lie back and enjoy it. To paraphrase that well-known ‘Few Good Men’ courtroom speech – ‘they post all day so we don’t have to.’ Could Janet’s ‘I lost a good man’ against M’s & E’Matty’s ‘7/7 it’s a scam!’ be unsurpassed in tangential hyperbola? I think no, surely that goes to ‘Anne’ back in https://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/08/29/kates-case-revisited/ and her ‘have some respect’ retort to DRG and the ensuing autopsy of language, intent and projection. Beep boopy boopers (as they say on here).

        1. E'Matty

          @anyone – “E’Matty’s ‘7/7 it’s a scam!” I didn’t ever say it was a scam. I merely pointed out that the perpetrators may be different to what people commonly believe i.e. ethe evidence actually points to a British Intel op. I’d better be careful saying such things, with our own Garda Commissioner being a loyal servant of the Crown…

          1. E'Matty

            @Daisy Chainsaw. Hilarious. Everything not in mainstream media is a “conspiracy theory” to be disregarded offhand by your kind. You probably stil think the invasion of Iraq was about spreading “Freedom and Democracy” or that only crazy people think the NSA is harvesting everyone’s data, or you’re likely convinced that Trump was installed in the WH by Putin or some other such nonsense. People like you reject everything outside the orthodox narrative until the eventually msm feed it to, and then you act like you believed it all along. You should try reading books instead of newspapers for a change. You might not be so hopelessly ingorant of your own reality. Whatever about donkeys, you’re just a bit of an ass.

          2. realPolithicks

            The thing that these guys don’t seem to understand Daisy is that nobody actually cares about their conspiracy theories and all the other nonsense they post on here. If I had a dollar for every time some one says to me something along the lines of “great response pal. Care to refute a single point I have made?” I’d be rich, but guess what emat and the rest of your gang. I don’t give a damn about the nonsense you post on here, the lengthy posts with your opinions about everything and anything, the links to obscure websites that seem to tell you guys what you want to hear. You guys post nonsense and expect people to “prove” you wrong, try posting something that actually makes sense and perhaps people will care.

          1. Anyone

            Thanks Giggidy, I thought of ‘Anyone’ as there’s always a punt out for an answer with that epithet. Like “Are we not going to comment on the politician’s clothes? Anyone?” ‘FFS no!’ would be my usual answer to the screen. Although I’ve been viewing the site for a good 9 years now, living away from Ireland for 16, this is probably the fourth of fifth time I’ve posted (Frunobulax was a previous name), I can assuage that I’ve no ulterior motive or posting under multiple accounts or any of that tribal stuff people like to engage in. I enjoy your posts and E’Matty’s and the 40-or-so regulars on here. As you were.

          2. GiggidyGoo

            The link you posted (from 2014). Was that the purpose of your post today?. Just seems a little strange to quote so far back – Janet and I had a few skirmishes a good while back which you could have quoted by the way.
            (I wasn’t around here at that time mind you and wasn’t aware of the story in the link)

          3. Anyone

            It can look like that for sure. That particular story stuck in my mind, as was one of a few (Marriage equality / Cervical Check alongside) when Broadsheet shows its best and worst sides. A story irrelevant in scale and impact compared to C-19 (I lost my Dad this year, St. Vincent’s gave him Covid-19 to help along his Liver cancer, couldn’t attend funeral, battling restrictions to fly there eventually to sort out the house) but still filled with such hysterical frothy commenters, that it was redolent of the Covid-19 coverage on here. Of course Broadsheet is biased, has motive, leanings, we all do, some we agree with, some we don’t, but the petty, glib, intolerant, strawman jibes on here lately on many an excellent conversation starting post just had me remembering back, and I drew my own observation. I like the pub-craic snide sarky verbal whiplash as much as the next poster and can be a proper git with it too but IMHO this place ‘has gone mad altogether’, which perversely is compelling yet repelling. Hard to pin down really. I’m not as assured of my comments and self-satisfying zingers. A strange place in a strange time. Still haven’t figured it out.

          4. Lilly

            @Anyone – Sorry you lost your Dad to Covid and couldn’t come home for the funeral. That’s tough and I imagine it must feel surreal.

        2. Rob_G

          I enjoy these meta-posts (and obvs it’s always nice to hear from the fans).

          Sorry to hear about your dad, pal – keep on keeping on.

          1. Anyone

            Thanks Rob_G. Your posts make me smile. Cheers. And you make my original point succinctly. Is the persona you have on this message board the two-faced Irish tribalist? The hypocrite? A quiet, unassuming, loyal person in real life, but on Broadsheet, a veritable volleyist of incisive rebukes and defender of common sense! Reacting to all, with glee and invective all day, supporting ‘saving lives’ and ‘wearing masks’, and disdain for risk-takers and non-conformers (how Ireland has changed) – ‘fupp him, he deserves it with his carry-on, ignoring the rules! Gnaah!’ *flicks fingers, laughs to himself, sups tea*. Then you hear of someone’s old man dying during lockdown, (remember, you passionately defend against more of this happening in your country by your rebukes and common sense approach) and true to your persona on here, empathy eludes you (it’s only a message board, fupp it sure hah?), instead you proffer an ego-serving facetious comment. And I liked it (I am a ‘fan’ after all, but Nigel is better). Bravo the consistent contrarian. Keep on keeping on and don’t change, pal.

          2. Alexander the Great

            Anyone Rob’s persona embodies a very consistent official Ireland which has always been there
            Think of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic

          3. Rob_G

            No, I’m like this in real-life.

            I don’t really get the rest of your of point – I see feeling sorry for someone’s Dad dying, and then feeling anger at the notion that someone has put other people at risk in order to visit their pub, as being two ends of the same spectrum.

  10. ce

    Lot’s of other countries to look at with not so good health services doing quite okay – and yes possible there is some kind of immunity in certain places… but if you want to deal with a pandemic might want to look at the experts in Africa and Asia. The “Sweden” or “not Sweden” – the current approach… although it’s not really an approach more a selection of messes – are both awful options given that we’ll be dealing with this for, at best a year at worst 10 or more. Ultimately what do we all want to be able to do everyday with our lives and what will allow us to do that as much as possible – because nothing will be perfect – regardless of age/pre-existing condition. Also – and not advocating this – private hospitals could be taken over again to boost our crumbling public sector, but I don’t think it will happen.

  11. E'Matty

    I would prefer not to disclose my background though I can say I have first hand knowledge of vaccine and medicine injuries (from a Big Pharma perspective), though I cannot discuss in detail, for obvious reasons. It’s actually pretty crazy you have never heard of a cytokine storm. You know that inflammation of the lungs and other organs we are told is impacting those most adversely affected by Covid? Well, that’s resulting from a cytokine storm where the bodies immune system goes into overdrive on contact with a virus and attacks its own organs (simplified explanation). Here’s a couple of links to artciles in the National Geographic and Irish Times on cytokine storms and Covid. They of course don’t link them to vaccine interference, as my factual account of historical incidences does.

    How quieting ‘blood storms’ could be key to treating severe COVID-19
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/05/how-quieting-cytokine-storms-could-be-key-to-treating-severe-cvd/

    Scientists uncover biological signatures of the worst Covid-19 cases
    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/scientists-uncover-biological-signatures-of-the-worst-covid-19-cases-1.4322738?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com

    As for vaccines and illness, the evidence now indicates that whilst a vaccine may protect you from that particular virus, it reduces your immune systems resistance to ALL other pathogens.

    “What exactly is the murderous intention here on behalf of the Health service or political class?” That would take a considerable amount of time to explain but what most ordinary people simply cannot appreciate (due to their own human decency and empathy) is just how egotistical, elitist and as a result, sociopathic, power is. Power is not benign as most believe. Quite the opposite in fact, but I’m not sure I can open your mind to such a reality in a Broadsheet comment. Consider the increasing prevalence of the overpopulation Malthusian myth which has seeped ever increasingly into online discussion these past couple of years. That’s not accidental you know…

    1. SOQ

      Am I right in my thinking that the way in which vaccines are made has changed over the past ten years or so and that they are now using animal linings instead of eggs?

      Judy Mikovits is of the opinion that these vaccines may not be properly cleaned and that traces of corona viruses from the animal linings may be present within them- do you have an opinion on that?

      Thanks.

      1. E'Matty

        @SOQ keep digging – you may be interested in this information on Italy and the new vaccine implemented in September 2019 to the over 65s. Why was Northern Italy so badly hit? The last flu season was marked by unusually warm weather and killed fewer older Italians than average, according to a report by the Italian Ministry of Health. This resulted in a larger number of elderly people in the at risk group. In September 2019, a “cell-based” flu shot was made available for the first time in Italy. It is called VIQCC or QIVc, and is produced from cultured animal cells rather than eggs.

        VIQCC is a quadrivalent flu vaccine that contains 2 type A viruses (H1N1 and H3N2) and 2 type B viruses.

        This “boosted” vaccine containing “immune-enhancing substances for a better performance of the vaccine” was recommended for adults 65 years of age or older.

      2. E'Matty

        @ SOQ – I replied to this already but BS seem to be censoring some of my comments? Not sure what was forbidden in my last post? I’ll try again – you should keep digging into this but you might be interested in the following info on Italy’s new vaccine last year. The last flu season in Italy was marked by unusually warm weather and killed fewer older Italians than average, according to a report by the Italian Ministry of Health. This resulted in a larger number of elderly people in the at risk group. In September 2019, a “cell-based” flu shot was made available for the first time in Italy. It is called VIQCC or QIVc, and is produced from cultured animal cells rather than eggs. VIQCC is a quadrivalent flu vaccine that contains 2 type A viruses (H1N1 and H3N2) and 2 type B viruses. This “boosted” vaccine containing “immune-enhancing substances for a better performance of the vaccine” was recommended for adults 65 years of age or older.

        1. SOQ

          Sometimes posts to not immediately appear E’Matty- they lag. I am sure admins can give a technical explanation but I suspect it is to do with underlying process run times myself.

          Either way it is not to do with the actual post. just the timing of it- so assume it will appear at some stage.

        2. Cian

          Any evidence (not a link to facebook) for this claim about ” “cell-based” flu shot was made available for the first time in Italy. It is called VIQCC or QIVc, “

          1. E'Matty

            @Cian – sure thing. Check out https://www.doctorsinitaly.com/b/flu-shot/

            This is an Italian website to help people find English speaking doctors in Italy. The page I provide above is actually their page advising in January 2020 on getting the flu shot. It is recommending it so no “anti-vaxxer” or “Conspiracy theorists”.

          2. E'Matty

            No Cian, nobody is examining the historical and current correlation between coronaviruses vaccine interference and cytokine storms despite such cytokine storms being the actually deadly aspect of this so called pandemic. Why is that? I have spoken to nurses, doctors and pharmacists and none had even heard of cytokine storms despite this being accepted as causing the worst coronavirus reactions. Odd not to have awareness of the main adverse reaction to the virus that is dominating our media coverage, no? Instead, this government is pushing for country wide flu vaccination heading into the winter.

      1. E'Matty

        @GiggidyGoo Thanks GiggidyGoo, I try to keep discussions to objectively verifiable evidence where possible. The information is all in the public domain already. I’m just trying to help people put it together and at the very least, to start questioning the “consensus based” narrative building of the established sources.

        1. Rob_G

          Were you same nutter that proposed that the coronavirus was a planned pandemic to shut down all the SMEs to benefit the tech companies, or was that some other lúdramán?

          1. E'Matty

            What I actually said was clearly over your head. We are witnessing a restructuring of the global economy and society moving away from traditional industries into a digital and virtual online world. Brzezinski referred to it as the Technetronic Era, though I wouldn’t expect someone of your calibre to be familiar with him or his writing or to view the world beyond the facade.

          2. Rob_G

            You could literally drive a bus between the two points:

            “We are witnessing a restructuring of the global economy and society moving away from traditional industries into a digital and virtual online world; and the corona virus is accelerating this phenomenon” (ok, fair enough), and;

            “The corona pandemic was planned by tech companies to shut down all the SMEs” (lol wut?)

            The fact that you are anti-vaccine, and believe that 7/7 was an inside job kind of tells me all I need to know about the calibre of websites you are visiting over the course of your “research”

          3. E'Matty

            @ Rob “The corona pandemic was planned by tech companies to shut down all the SMEs” (lol wut?) – where did I ever say that? You are setting up a strawman because you cannot address the points I actually do raise. Do you think we’re not moving towards a digital economy? Do you not think traditional industries are suffering and dying off at the moment? Are you perhaps living in a cave?

        1. realPolithicks

          “Your posts are very informative E’Matty”

          Translation: thank you for telling me what I want hear.

          1. GiggidyGoo

            Nope. I know what he is writing is way above your and Nigel heads. For you both, it can’t be informative as you can’t take in real information.

          2. Nigel

            It’s not his information, it’s his conclusions. If you can’t spot the chasm between the two, well, good luck. Oh, and I’d double check any of his informative assertions that don’t come with direct links before treating them as gospel. Just to be on the safe side.

          3. GiggidyGoo

            Still waiting for your conclusions. Why don’t you grace us with them instead of commenting on commenters?

          4. Nigel

            Really? I was waiting for yours, but I’ll understand if you’re too busy making personal attacks on Cian.

          5. realPolithicks

            Well obviously none of us is as “clever” as you are giggidy so I appreciate you sharing your special knowledge with us.

          6. GiggidyGoo

            The knowledge you refer to is what EMatty has just written above. I’ve taken it it. If you can’t take it in that’s your problem. Doesn’t surprise me.

          7. SOQ

            realPolithicks- do you actually have an opinion on this up and coming lock down which is going to ground many livelihoods into the dust?

            Or do you work for the state sector in which case you don’t give a flying fluck?

    2. Rob_G

      Did you acquire background in vaccines and pharma in the same message boards where you acquired your expertise in geo-politics & global terrorism?

          1. E'Matty

            @Rob. Oh ok, are you one of these people who think websites don’t contain valid information or that online information isn’t actual information? You do realise the internet holds just about every book or peer reviewed paper ever published, right? I get it, you obtain all of your infroamtion on the world from mainstream newspapers and think yourself informed, am I right? I personally prefer books myself. You should give them a go. I can recommend some to get you started if you wish?

          2. Rob_G

            No, but the preferred platform of conspiracies theorists are websites, so it’s not surprising to me that this is where all of your “research” comes from

            Thanks for the offer of the book recommandation, but I’ve already read “Chariots of the Gods”, and didn’t really care for it tbh…

          3. Rob_G

            Not really assumptions; more deductive reasoning at a very simple level.

            “Commenter posts a lot of wacky theories popular on conspiracy websites; therefore, commenter probably reads conspiracy websites”

          4. E'Matty

            @Rob, everything I am saying is evidenced in books and peer reviewed papers as well. Even just two Brzezinski books The Grand Chessboard and Between two ages: America’s role in the Technetronic Era, are highly illuminating on global power. You seem to not read much as your worldview is a mirror of mainstream media.

            Here’s a little quote from Between two Ages, “The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities. ”
            This was written in 1970.

          5. Rob_G

            I didn’t know there were many peer-reviewed papers about 7/7 being an inside job; of course, I’m not as well-read as you, so I may have missed them.

          6. E'Matty

            @ Rob – but there’s is plenty of objectively verifiable evidence supporting that point. You’re just not going looking for it. Waiting for the msm to present it to you. They won’t,.

  12. Vanessanelle

    Broadsheet has become the virtual Protest March for those that can’t make the Saturdays at the GPO/ Custom House/ Leinster House

    was it for this?

    t’would make you think alright
    although I’d rather not be reminded of some of yere previous incarnations

  13. Anyone

    If it were a real street fight like those at closing time in town squares gone by, with actual slaps, gouges and Ben Sherman shoes flying off into the fag ash, which side would come out tops? Wouldn’t that sort out the pro / anti maskers? Maybe not, but it would be fun. The ladies wrenching clumps of hair. The men kicking and spitting. The ones shouting insults but afraid to enter the fray. The sneaky bottle-throwers. Roars from them all. Tubridy as referee “come on lads now!” weakly peeping his whistle as blood spurted across his rhinestone shirt. Always visceral action in my town in the ’80s. I remember being grabbed by the beans and neck and becoming airborne toward a Datsun Cherry roof. Our town was ‘put on the map’. It could work here.

Comments are closed.