Chief Medical Officer Dr. Tony Holohan (left) and Deputy CMO Dr. Ronan Glynn
🚨 BREAKING: Proposal being put to Cabinet ministers this afternoon is to move Ireland to Level 5 lockdown for six weeks 🚨 @VirginMediaNews
— Gavan Reilly (@gavreilly) October 19, 2020
This afternoon.
More as we get it.
Meanwhile…
Breaking: The new 5km travel restriction will be a penal provision and fines will be issued to those who breach the rule.
— Philip Ryan (@Philip_Ryan) October 19, 2020
Earlier: Answer A Broadsheet Reader
‘Revise Current Policy And Consider An Alternative Strategy Tailored To Our Nation And Its People’
Last week: We Knew This Day Would Come
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correct decision. go home stay home. same as April. simple and effective if putting the fire out is the aim of the game
The fire wasn’t put out in April, nor will it be this time.
only the vaccine will put it out completely
Well then what’s your justification for a move to level 5?
to reverse the current trajectory.
Is level 3 in Dublin not working to flatten the curve..?
We’ve got to go the extra mile.
It the religious cult of lockdown- no matter how many others it kills.
Thing is- why are NPHET’s proposals being issued – or is it leaked- to the public before they are put to cabinet?
What authority do NPHET have to do this?
It is not like me to be defending this government but there should be no speculation as to outcomes before the cabinet decides- it is unprofessional and causing all sorts of unnecessary anxiety.
Think about it SOQ – this is totally an early Christmas present. This gives you 6 weeks solid of railing against the restrictions online!
it’s not a fire it’s a virus, you can no more get rid of this with lockdowns than you can the annual flu ( and no I’m not saying they are the same thing ), this is just postponing many things including people’s cancer care etc until what a rushed vacine ?
It’s tempting to think one hard bout of suffering especially if it’s not yours will wipe it out but that’s a fallacy.
Lockdowns are not supposed to get rid of the virus, just to slow it down. Level 3 looked to be slowing it in Dublin but that didn’t last. Maybe if more people had given up on their house parties and pub visits we wouldn’t be facing Level 5 now.
so you’d agree this putting out a fire rhetoric is boll*x
Well that depends on what you consider the fire. If you consider the rising case numbers and hospitalisations as the fire then this is designed to put it out. If you consider the virus to be the fire then this is not designed to put it out, just to deny it fuel for a time.
And what happens after 6 weeks eh?
Or does the CoVid hokey pokey continue until every single small and medium sized business has gone to the wall?
Isn’t it obvious? We move to Level 3 and limp through Christmas. With luck people will stop acting selfishly and follow the guidelines so that we can stay at Level 3 for a while and move to Level 2.
what about everyone who WILL fly home for Christmas ?
Genuinely and out of curiosity has anyone on this site even seen or been to a house party in the last few months?
I dunno where they’re happening, coz it’s not around where I live in North Dublin.
They are getting blamed, but what if there’s other reasons?
I hear all this “other people being selfish” but I just don’t see it!
I have not been to any but I have seen them in my neighbourhood. I also know people who have hosted them, sometimes for communions with bouncy castles and all, and sometimes just to have friends around.
I think all the stuff about house parties is just guff. My guess is that this is like panic buying back in March. Most people weren’t going into Tesco and buying 5,000 toilet rolls. By and large, people were just picking up one or two extra things and supply chains were so precarious that it was enough to empty all the supermarkets. Most people didn’t feel like they were doing irrational panic buying because it was just a couple of extras. And now most people don’t feel like they’re being selfish or acting irresponsibly with regard to the Covid rules. They’re just taking one or two small extra risks – going out to a restaurant, meeting a couple of friends for a drink… And the situation is so precarious that all of us taking those extra little risks is enough to send case numbers skyrocketing.
…whatever about the reasons, the figures are clear…the NPHET model for a second wave have been stark and uncannily accurate…the only measure that has proved effective to date has been lockdown…
I agree.. where are these house parties? unless living in cramped over crowded accomm is a party.
So we’re saying that general life causes it? Yep sounds about right.
And that any return to normal life will cause it to come back
Given that we CANNOT eliminate this virus from our shores, Zero-Covid is not a realistic strategy here – do you see the illogical argument for a harsh lockdown.
Or, would it be your preference to go in and out of lockdown until a vaccine is found. Again 5 years being our best attempt at that so far.
Also Bisted. Lockdown or other versions of that is the only method we’ve tried. We haven’t tried anything else.
Yeah, if you ban all cars, tractors, trucks, bikes, motorbikes, skateboards etc, and stop people walking, then no one will die on the roads..
…I hear you Micko…but…lockdown has been proved to work, albeit temporarily…maybe you’ll answer this question…how many deaths are acceptable before the pro-sickness strategies are considered a success or not?
Corona aren’t the only deaths, lockdown brings its own figures and I’d say they will soar coming up to Christmas
I have asked you before Bisted but you never answered- what NPHET model for a second wave has been stark and uncannily accurate?
Do gatherings after communions, confirmations & post match celebrations count as house parties?
…you claim to work in IT so I suppose your denial of of exponential growth is willful…NPHET have been forecasting the growth in new cases growing at a rate that is now vindicated…the half-hearted response by government has been shown not to halt that growth…simple, really…
I hear you too Bisted. Genuinely, I do.
But, to answer your question. I would hope that no one would die from this thing and we should work towards getting the number to zero.
That being said I think that there is no way that we can stop death in any real sense, no matter what we do and I would also say that we have to of course look after our vulnerable people as best we can. (Myself included – I have a folded lung. Only discovered in Jan. I’m also a bit too “chunky”)
We have to remember that vulnerable people are always vulnerable, no matter what we do and I would ask that we all just be a little bit ..well, braver.
All of us. vulnerable and not, old and young. A little courage goes a long way.
Being brave and trying something new is what will get us out of this situation I believe.
I mean we’re taking about cancelling Christmas – we didn’t even do that during WW2 of God’s sake! And that was an actual war.
What are we fighting for if we can’t live our lives as normal as much as possible?
But we have to be brave.
@Bisted
“whatever about the reasons, the figures are clear…the NPHET model for a second wave have been stark and uncannily accurate…the only measure that has proved effective to date has been lockdown…”
What Nphet model are you referring to, and can you provide a link?
…After 9pm your TD (if they’re a minister) may be able to help you with links…me…I don’t tend to open links…the last one I opened took me to a porn site…advertising masks, ironically…not sure they’d be Spar safe…
Some might say you were willfully dodging the question..
+1 Hank
…Bisted…– WHERE ARE THE NPHET MODELLING PROJECTIONS YOU KEEP REFERENCING TO?
The figures are far from clear. Graham Neary puts it succinctly:
“Deaths = positive PCR test or suspected Covid. Includes those who sadly would have died regardless.
Cases = PCR test. Mostly no Covid symptoms.
Hospitalisations = anyone in hospital with PCR test even if no Covid symptoms.
Admissions, ICU: same story?
Covid data is junk.”.
https://twitter.com/GrahamNeary/status/1317228619383660555
As was stated in the recent open letter to the government, no distinction is being made between a ‘positive case’, an ‘active case’, and a ‘transmissible case’. Also, the case figures released are not being corrected for false positives.
There’s a track history here too of course. Last July HIQA estimated that NPHET’s official death toll of 1700 due to Covid-19 had been overestimated by about 630. ie by 37%
And as for a friend who died in Daisy Hill in Newry after contracting CoVid-19- that never happened- as you well know.
They had the first person with AIDS in Ireland so are tighter than a ducks ass.
…eh Bodger…this is surely even beyond your notion of decency…if you contact me directly I will give you name and details of my deceased friend…his months remembrance ceremony has just been held…
I know all the queen nurses in that hospital darlin and he never reached the medical (5th floor) ward of that hospital.
Now what you have been told is another story but ALL CoVId-19s passed from there.
@Bisted
“whatever about the reasons, the figures are clear…the NPHET model for a second wave have been stark and uncannily accurate…the only measure that has proved effective to date has been lockdown…”
What Nphet model are you referring to, and can you provide a link?
……..
Bottle of smoke.
There were plenty happening in Rathmines. The bigger issue to me though seems to be the people out and about in the city center, groups of six at a table having pints shoulder-to-shoulder practically on top of another table of 6 having pints shoulder to shoulder.
There’s something about this citing of cancer patients (without any testimonials unless I’ve missed them) that strikes me as a tad cynical. I know we’ve had anecdotal evidence of this being an actual thing but it seems unusual to use this (suggestion of lowering of available care to at-risk individuals) as a mechanism to discredit a community directive whose aim is to care for at-risk individuals.
Maybe there are statistics out there indicating that cancer patients are suffering as a result of their delayed care (which would invalidate my comment) but I’ve yet to see any.
you could ask SOQ, his friend recently passed with untreated cancer
As I said there is anecdotal evidence – there are so many variables with cancer prognosis and treatment that anecdotal evidence is not extremely helpful in these instances.
…just to add to your anecdotes..I too had a friend who died in Daisy Hill Hospital in Newry a few weeks ago…he went in to receive treatment for his cancer diagnosis but contracted Covid-19 in hospital…
No it is not the correct decision, unless you are an employee in the civil service and resent other people for working.
In March it was believed that the infection has a higher fatality rate than it actually does.
We all stopped life so as to flatten the curve and that the state would put in place necessary resources.
Yet according to yesterday’s Examiner, there are now 800 less nurses in the system than last year?
It has been fascinating to hear countless nurses in the media over the last few weeks who say they came home in March to do their patriotic duty – only to be then told they were being put on a list and would be employed if needed.
A grand total of 23 additional ICU beds have been added to the system in 9 months – yet we all must now stop life so that ICU availability is maintained?
And now GAA games continue while retail businesses must close. Where’s the science for this?
This state has lost the plot and has become a tyranny.
Beware of the Traitor State.
Commiserations to the wet pubs.
Only re-opened a month ago today after the longest lockdown in Europe.
I did my best in those four short weeks to keep you in business.
It was a tough task but I stepped up to the plate.
See you in 2021 my friend.
Mmf …
Do they plan to simultaneously take that time to increase hospital capacity and radically improve how care homes deal with the virus ? Doubt it.
Dream on- that is not how it works Janet.
Remember it is all your fault because you never followed the RULES- it doesn’t matter how confusing or stupid they are- it is STILL all your fault- YA HEAR ME?
hahahah not a chance! That’s what they were meant to be doing over the last few months. They haven’t done a thing aside from increase their pay 3 times and take a long summer vacation.
Level 5 but the schools stay open so parents can gather in the mornings and chat about how mad it all is.
Just my guess, but that’s the proposal so they can say the NPHET advice was fully considered. A slightly reduced level 5 will probably emerge.
Very possible. There is mention of allowing groups of children to continue training in pods of 15, for example.
It’s very frustrating to get this information in this drip feed manner. Almost as if they are testing public response before making a decision. Either meet in public and let us hear the whole conversation or stay silent until a decision is made.
Agree. Very poor crisis communications. It seems all government-centred communication strategies are based around photo-ops and the twitter machine – and they don’t even manage those very professionally.
“ children to continue training in pods”
Hehehe
You sound like Spitting Image’s version of Dominic Cummings
It’s here if you haven’t seen it – funny stuff
https://youtu.be/6Xw8tkDk5uY
I’m glad I’m amusing you but such is the wording of the guidelines.
I’m glad you amuse me too
But it’s teaching kids, not training Dom ;-)
No, you misunderstand. I’m not talking about teaching. The proposal is to allow kids to continue sports training outdoors in pods of 15.
I did and now I’m the Dom
(Falls to knees)
NOOOOOOOOOO!
LOL!
A billion euros to possibly temporarily evade 100 covid deaths and then back to level three for Christmas.
They can’t level five us for Christmas. Most business do 35% of their yearly trade in December. So it’s a little game of do something now while you can.
I’ve noticed a lot of pro vacinne stories in the lead up to this level five.
See you guys in Feb for more level five fun and a new term for it. ‘The Final Flatten’
For those who ask, why would polticians and others lie about the severity of this virus? What purpose would it serve? Check out the writings of Karl Schwab, the founder and executive chairman of the World Economic Forum. Two books of most interest – “Shaping the Fourth Industrial Revolution” and “COVID-19: The Great Reset”. You’re going to be hearing more and more about this “Great Reset” over the coming months. Let’s just say, they didn’t just formulate these plans since February…
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Shaping+the+Fourth+Industrial+Revolution&ref=nb_sb_noss
https://www.amazon.co.uk/COVID-19-Great-Reset-Klaus-Schwab/dp/2940631123/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=covid-19%3A+the+great+reset&qid=1603127206&sr=8-1
This sets out the radical transformation of the world economic, poltical and social order which is now advancing at a rapid pace.
“The future will challenge our understanding of what it means to be human, from both a biological and a social standpoint” – Schwab
Several times over the past few months I have been reminded of a sci-fi series I enjoyed, and still revisit every so often. In it, the protagonist visits a planet where the local practice is to use a small spray immediately after sneezing, coughing or similar.
For many reasons, while I know we are using the mask practice, I have to wonder when, if, such little sprays may become a reality.
don’t judge me I’m locked into the latest star trek on netflix…I can’t escape it’s tractor beam
Have you had the chance to enjoy Lower Decks? I do recommend, especially if you want a chuckle
ohhh ta for the tip !
Avenue 5 is my fav ‘morons in space’ show of late. Armando Iannucci’s most recent after Veep.
Ta Rosette
Avenue 5? Have not seen it, but it appears I have 6 weeks coming up to enjoy it :-)
Avenue 5 was great craic.
Jeez, I hope that ginger moany hole doesn’t return to Discovery. She’s going to though, isn’t she? She’s intensely irritating. Michael is annoying too.
Andyourpointiswhatexactly?: All Michael’s are. I think it is in the DNA :-)
Out of curiosity, what was the sci-fi series Slightly?
Vatta’s War. Specific reference in the first novel, Trading In Danger
Wipkipedia reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatta%27s_War#Trading_in_Danger
Leo Varadkar should resign, wasted two weeks.
Paul Reid should also go, he’s out of his depth.