All For Naught


Former Fine Gael European Affairs Minister Lucinda Creighton with her husband, and former Fine Gael senator, Paul Bradford in 2013

This afternoon.


Previously: ‘Revise Current Policy And Consider An Alternative Strategy Tailored To Our Nation And Its People’

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30 thoughts on “All For Naught

  1. Junkface

    “Professor, Without Knowing Precisely What The Danger Is, Would You Say It’s Time For Our Viewers To Crack Each Other’s Heads Open And Feast On The Goo Inside?” – Kent Brockman

  2. SOQ

    Tom Cotter’s twitter feed is interesting

    He seems to be laying great emphasis on rapid antigen tests but according to Indian Express

    “The sensitivity of the test, or its ability to detect true positives, ranged between 50.6% and 84%, depending upon the viral load of the patient. The higher the ability to detect true negatives, the more reliable is any positive result.”

    So there is no way that test could deliver what he is arguing for- which is zero CoVid-19.

  3. ReproBertie

    I specifically remember communication going around back in March/April about the need to wear gloves when using petrol pumps. I guess Lucinda missed that.

    We can’t do Zero Covid without isolating everyone who arrives into the country by land, sea or air, for 10-14 days and we won’t be doing that.

  4. Mr .T

    Zero covid is unattainable. Completely unattainable.

    Even if you were to shut the borders to all people – there are still humans involved in supply chains of goods across the border, its inevitable that someone will get infected eventually and it the virus will return.

    1. Junkface

      If the Chinese communist party and their police state Orwellian nightmare could not control the spread of covid 19, nobody else will. We need to live with this thing until there is a vaccine. People need their jobs and their mental health.

        1. ce

          Still they have pool parties

          And the others Orwellian nightmares that are South Korea, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand look so much worse than here – a police state forcing people to go to the pub in most of their large cities and towns like slaves

  5. Vanessanelle

    all the commercial talking heads
    are doing a lot of turning and talking

    see Ciara earlier today

    Anyway, yis heard all this already
    Locking down is all they’ve come up with in ten months

    keep it handy everyone

  6. Big Phil's Golf Bag

    So is she just going to head off to Malta or something till Feb? For a right wing nationalist (where exactly can one put Lucinda on the political spectrum?) she’s very quick to fly the coop once the going gets tough.

  7. Clampers Outside

    Yeah Tom, it is.
    I agree.

    But is it maintainable… without the draconian lockdowns?

    No, it is not.
    Even New Zealand knows that.

    We need alternative ideas.

    1. ce

      What alternative ideas are there, given that we have three broad ways of dealing with Covid:

      1. Let the virus do its thing with as much shielding as possible of venerable groups
      2. Zero – or in reality – extremely low Covid
      3. Do what we are doing now, open up, close down, open up, close down … wash, rinse, repeat

      That’s it, it’s an endemic disease, they are all the choice we have. Humans have been dealing with infectious disease for a very long time, this one is no different – these are the three approaches you can take.

      In saying that, perhaps we could tweak what we are doing now, say scrap weekends and have everything open for three weeks out of four, and in the fourth week absolutely everything closes, but we’d be following the same general idea of what we are doing now… beyond that all other suggestions are welcome, but the horrible reality is, every choice sucks. All of the scenarios involve having better (faster) testing and tracing, (like most Asian countries, Australia, and New Zealand etc.), people learning how to wear a mask properly, and isolating when they are told.

      Only scenario 2 allows for the possibility of meeting in significant numbers for any sustained amount of time…. but without the North on side its not possible to achieve, with the North on side it is definitely incredibly difficult – like all the other scenarios – but possible.

      So it’s frustrating for everybody, I’d love to hear some new ideas, but I don’t think they exist… I hope I’m wrong

      1. Clampers Outside

        Not being funny, but your “2.” isn’t a scenario, it’s the target of all scenarios.
        Or did you forget to type what 2 is…

        1. ce

          I agree 2 is the ultimate goal regardless, but I mean an explicitly articulated China/NZ/Australia Zero (or close to Zero) strategy…. the “regardless of what the neighbours are doing strategy we’re going to isolate from them” strategy, for want of a better name! Incredibly difficult to do here and explicitly ruled out by the government last night.

          Other good ideas of recent times (beyond having a functional health service, hiring the staff!) was giving smart phones to the population for easier tracing…. I’m sure that will go down well with the 5G brigade.

      2. Clampers Outside

        I don’t like “1.”

        And it looks like all countries are doing a variation of “3.” to me and are looking to continue that until some sort of vaccine is available which will be at the earliest 4 to 5 years away (going by fastest vaccines ever produced – Ebola and mumps(?)).
        Doing this open/lockdown/open/lock… for 4 to 5 years is not sustainable.

        I don’t know what the alternative ideas are, bar that one that says we should invest in shielding the 20% vulnerable and open up society. I’m not saying it’s the right one, but I do think it needs to be discussed before being dismissed.
        And I agree, all ideas will have a negative impact element, but I’m not seeing any analysis of worth that shows one worse than another… Hence the need for more discussion and not blindly accepting the open/lockdown/open/lock… approach.

        1. ce

          I’m not sure how we shield 50% of the 20% without locking people away and utterly destroying what remains of our already strained society. There will be outliers too – people who never knew they were vulnerable, and those who we can’t figure why they were hit/died from covid. But I agree that it should be discussed – we are currently paying for our current expenditure through massive borrowing, borrowing for capital makes sense but for current can we afford another 4 or 5 lockdowns over the next 2 years, with nothing to really show for it. It’s worth asking the question about how much would it cost to shield everybody who wanted to… would this be cheaper. Personally, I don’t think we should do it, but I think an honest debate include this this information…. Anyway only another 6 weeks or so for us all to thrash this out and fix the world’s problems.

  8. Madam X

    The alternative was to beef up the HSE capacity, over the summer and take on the people trained who came back to Ireland then ride this out. Government didn’t do that So now we lock down again and the economic cost will be enormous to those who cannot open. . We missed an opportunity when we had the time

  9. Bob

    The young don’t vote so them losing their jobs doesn’t effect the politicians plans to stay in power. An example of this is the minimum wage going up by only 10c and no uproar.

    350 went to 300 and no uproar.

    The gov policy is still based on covering up the nursing home scandel where votes do count. A full island wide analysis is not being carried out by the powers that be.

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