Not All Heroes Clip Wings

at | 106 Replies

From top: Christmas homecoming, Dublin Airport, 2018; Dr Tony Holohan, Chief Medical Officer, Department of Health, at the Department of Health briefing in Miesian Plaza last night

This morning.

Christmas homecomings around the country’s airports are now in doubt as chief medical officer Dr Tony Holohan warned the Covid-19 risks around international travel are still “very substantial” at this time.

Via RTÉ:

Dr Holohan also cautioned parents about the risks of children from different families getting together for Halloween parties.

Asked about people travelling home for Christmas and families in different countries reuniting for the festive season, he said no specific consideration by his team has yet been given to it.

Our advice is that the risk of non-essential travel outside this country is simply too high at this moment.”

You’re too high.

Are not high enough.

Hard to tell these days.

Christmas flights home in doubt as Covid travel risk ‘simply too high’ (RTÉ)

RollingNews

Meanwhile…

Um.

Meanwhile…

Oh.

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106 thoughts on “Not All Heroes Clip Wings

      1. scottser

        i went for a walk up three rock with the dog at the weekend, place was like o’connell street. then i had the kids down at marley park, you’d swear there was a gig on the place was so rammed. ne’er a mask to be seen either.

        Reply
    1. Micko

      It’s getting crazy now

      We’ve had over 22K new cases and about 80 deaths in Ireland during the month of October related to Covid.

      Considering that on average, around 70 people die in Ireland every single day regardless of our actions – we need to start having grown up conversations.

      In March /April ICU admissions doubled in about 10 days to a high of 155 admissions.

      It’s taken almost the ENTIRE month of October for ICU admissions to double to a current high of 41. The rate of growth is nowhere near the same.

      Today I read that Breastcheck has paused screening for 153 thousand women. I’m sure everyone on this site has been affected by breast or another cancer through themselves or a family member.

      If only 1% of those women die of breast cancer that will nearly be the entire amount of people who have died with/of Covid.

      And that’s just one cancer screening.

      This absolute BS needs to stop now

      Reply
  1. broadbag

    Why are people so incredibly weak, use your common sense, visit if it’s safe and you won’t all be on top of each other, if not, have a quiet Christmas for once, the world won’t end. This ”we have to save Christmas” nonsense is embarrassing, particularly from grown adults.

    Reply
    1. Oro

      Totally! It’s toe-curling. People really do need to get a grip. Consumerism really has people believing it’s culturally significant.

      Reply
  2. Tony

    Ahh Bodger. When did you start quoting that clickbait rag the Daily Mail? If every there was a source you could trust as telling an untruth, it’s the Daily mail. You are better than that!

    Reply
    1. Charger Salmons

      Would this be the Daily Mail that won Newspaper of the Year award in the 2019 British Press Awards for an 8th time, more than any other title in the history of the awards ?

      Reply
        1. Charger Salmons

          And you think the Irish press is ?
          Boris gets it from all quarters on a daily basis in the British media yet the hacks sucking their pencils who hang around Leinster House waiting for crumbs would rather believe they’re being patriotic.
          The Irish Daily Mail has been consistently more aggressive in its pandemic reporting than its local rivals.

          Reply
          1. scottser

            the daily mail. who else would bring you the tale of gary numan’s wife gemma’s breast implants exploding while on a caravan holiday?
            charger mistaking clicks for truth again.

          2. Charger Salmons

            Of course the only way you could have read this story today was to use Mail Online.
            You don’t seem to understand the irony of reading a newspaper for free while complaining about it using clickbait to attract readers.
            A mighty whooooosh.

          3. scottser

            You don’t have to make your appreciation for the daily mail about me, charger. Keep your grubby habits to yourself.

      1. Vanessanelle

        Shur what d.f. has the British Press Awards got ta’ do with us
        tisn’t like any of the Irish or Orish set ups are entitled to be shortlisted
        give over would ya

        BTW, on a matter of disclosure, in case one of the thicks kick off, I was approached by the DM (Oirish branch) – well FK, but turned down their offer – weekend supplement thingy. Was also approached about some of my RTÉ stuff here which I further detailed for them. No biggie

        Reply
  3. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    I haven’t had Christmas in Ireland for decades. I have survived. The virus isn’t taking a holiday.

    Reply
    1. bisted

      …I have a family member who lives in Melbourne…normally, he travels everywhere round Australia and Asia…he works for a company with HQ in London and was back 3 times last year and holidays twice in Ireland…I know if there’s a way back for xmas he’ll find it…

      Reply
    2. Brughahaha

      Is your Mother very sick or very old and unlikely to see another Christmas ?
      Are your parents living in isolation , desperate for some human interaction with their family , a family where all children were forced to emigrate thanks to the endemic incompetence and corruption of the same Government and PS now telling you not to return?
      Are you working in another country but your children reside in Ireland for either economic or relationship breakdown reasons and you are desperate to see them as they are desperate to see you

      And on and on the reasons go

      Reply
      1. E'Matty

        The lads are in the “I’m alright Jack” Camp. They couldn’t give a toss about any of the suffering these restrictions are causing. In fact, it’s like they’re blissfully unaware of the hardship being imposed on hundreds of thousands. Just completely obsessed with this virus above all else.

        Reply
        1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

          E’Matty – I am living in a city that has had 112 consecutive days of lockdown – harder than Ireland’s and there are still restrictions. That was our second lockdown. Don’t talk about not suffering restrictions are causing. You can deny the virus exists but it seems to be pretty important in all our lives.

          Reply
          1. SOQ

            Just a question formerly- has your income been in anyway affected by the lockdowns you so strongly advocate for?

          2. Formerly Known As @ireland.com

            In Australia, the state and federal governments have provided assistance to those who have lost their jobs or income due to the virus. I have kept my income. It has been shown here that everyone needs to be able to choose to do the right thing if they get the virus, otherwise people go to work with it. The lockdown in Melbourne has worked. Businesses are reopening and the economy is recovering. The greater good has to be served. Keeping things open to save a few jobs is not an option. Once the hospitals are overrun, all optional activity will stop. As far as mental health goes, it is tough on everyone. I am not here to discuss my family but I can assure you that the lockdown has been tough on my wife and kids. However, the lockdown was essential. Lockdowns may not be needed if everyone wore masks and did social distancing. The economies that are doing best are the ones that have beaten the virus.

  4. GiggidyGoo

    “….the risks of children from different families getting together for Halloween parties.”

    However, no problem with them getting together for….school.

    Holohan speak with forked tongue

    Reply
    1. Janet, dreams of warm feet

      they all at together anyway, there’s a tribe of them screeching like stuck pigs on crack outside my window now, wrestling, chasing, calling each other fupping gay, a delightful bunch of 8 to 11 year olds.

      Reply
    2. Cian

      School is seen by many as essential.

      Begging strangers for chocolate just isn’t essential.

      Can you see the difference?

      Reply
      1. Janet, dreams of warm feet

        he’s not talking about trick or treating here but halloween parties of kids from different households together, as they already are at school, see the difference ;)

        Reply
        1. Cian

          If your party has just the kids in your child’s pod at school, then there is no difference. But once you go outside their pod you are introducing additional contacts and thus additional risk.

          Reply
          1. GiggidyGoo

            You need a look at reality. Breaktime in primary schools. Have a look. No distancing, No ‘pods’. Going in and out of the building as normal pre-covid.
            Get up from your SCU gaming chair and go see.

          2. Janet, dreams of warm feet

            or just look outside my front door, same pods ? doubt they are in the same school

          3. Cian

            My kids school is managing it properly.
            Different collection and drop off times (by surname) so everyone isn’t together then.
            They are separated into quadrants of the yard, one class per quardant. They have minimal contact with other classes.
            Contact your board if management, ask why it isn’t looking after the kids properly, volunteer.

          4. E'Matty

            If they claim there is a neglible risk of transmission in schools with hundreds of students, how is 5 or 6 kids having a Halloween party now this great big threat for virus transmission? It hardly warrants his proclamation. Hopefully parents ignore him and make their minds for themselves. This is ridiculous.

          5. Cian

            How is getting your hair cut a risk?
            How is buying a sweater a risk?

            We need to reduce all unnecessary contacts. Be it the hairdresser or a Halloween party

      2. GiggidyGoo

        @Cian Did you actually take the trouble to read the item? – it said Halloween parties
        Piddle poor posting yet again. Not even a good attempt at deflection / distraction.
        You FGers are quite a despicable lot alright.

        Reply
      3. Cian

        School is seen by many as essential.

        Begging strangers for chocolate haloween parties just aren’t essential.

        Can you see the difference?

        Reply
        1. GiggidyGoo

          More children in contact with each other in school than at a party in another house. Go divert and distract yourself onto some other subject.

          Reply
          1. Cian

            Every additional unnecessary contact is an unnecessary additional risk.

            Schools can manage this, although there are physical restrictions on how much a certain school can do.

            Parents should manage this – they have no excuse.

          2. GiggidyGoo

            Thought so alright. You haven’t an iota about what’s going on in school corridors, playgrounds. You try a smart ‘Can you see the difference’ line and when pointed out to you the stupidity of saying that Halloween parties are different somehow to schools as regards contact, you’re caught wanting in the knowledge department.

          3. Cian

            I have see one school’s approach to minimising contact, and am impressed.

            And I can see the difference between necessary and unnecessary contacts. The simple fact is that the fewer contacts we make each day the lower the chance of getting/passing on Covid.

          4. GiggidyGoo

            Well good for you. In the meantime, stupid statements from Holohan are stupid statements. Defending them, just to be argumentative, is in the same realm.

        2. Gavin

          No, they clearly dont…but loved the line “Begging strangers for chocolate” lol. I guess this is why we have lockdown because people are just a bit slooow.

          Reply
  5. Junkface

    “Put down the Turkey drumstick Grandad, you’re under arrest!”

    ….Police breaking up Christmas dinners, ha ha! As if.

    Reply
  6. Vanessanelle

    I fully expect Tony Holohan to u-turn and backtrack his assertions about schools being ok

    Remember the Nursing homes?
    They closed off themselves and started prepping, some as early as late January
    When it all got real in late February, he said there is nothing to worry about, stop frightening people let them see their families etc
    Many re-opened
    A week later he didn’t even fake a bitta embarrassment when he called for them to be locked down
    and then left them dangling for PPE, Supports and Staff
    While he watched Paul Reid make a hames of everything from clocking in in the morning to late night tweeting

    We’re being screwed
    By people who are supposed to be making decisions in the interest of the Public
    They couldn’t give a púc

    not one,
    From NPHET to Government Buildings
    and every single Government Department, and Semi this that and Quango
    And everyone inside the lot of them

    And as for the lads that are supposed to be holding them all to account
    the Media

    Between licking themselves and their virtual home setups, and laughing at Maskers v AntiMaskers, and making that a thing
    – and I don’t think it is anymore,

    Reply
    1. Charger Salmons

      V – you may not agree with the policy direction that the coalition and its medical advisers are taking but the idea that they don’t care about the people they’re making decisions for is ludicrous and you know it.
      As is the idea that they’re unaware of the deep economic and social damage another lockdown will inflict on Ireland.
      This pandemic is fast-moving and unpredictable and decisions have to be taken on predictions for weeks or months hence that don’t always turn out to be correct.
      Criticise them by all means but they deserve better than being told they don’t give a toss.

      Reply
      1. Janet, dreams of warm feet

        they don’t, if they gave a toss they would have taken concrete action to help care homes and increased hospital beds

        Reply
      2. Just Sayin

        V is absolutely right, they only care about themselves and not being seen to do the wrong thing.

        They know that when the public eventually cop on and realise what a disaster they’ve been, they will simply blame it all on NPHET.

        We need to learn from this and NEVER EVER AGAIN vote for FF, FG or the Greens.
        One election isn’t enough, they must be banished forever.
        And don’t vote for any of those Godshiets if they change parties either!

        Reply
          1. Vanessanelle

            Well yeah
            I’d give you that Sinn Fein would have done every thing they were told to do by NPHET

            But they wouldn’t have cut PUP, and in fact they would have upped the support to the SME sector, and long before the current crowd starting spinning for the Budget
            They would have upped the threshold for Medical Cards
            They would have definately got the HSE to get a bit of an act together – like operational level clincal recruitment and Clerical recruitment for track and tracing
            AND I would like to think they would never have cut the hospitality Hotel sector VAT rate

            But for sure they wouldn’t have needed 4 special advisors per cabinet seat
            or supported a Pay Rise

      3. Vanessanelle

        Happy to be proved wrong Charage

        but everything to date, suggests otherwise

        One mishap after another
        yet still the only response to a surge they were all shytetalking about last March & April is a LOCKDOWN

        If they were all that, they’d have managed the Leaving Cert

        If Lockdown was a genuine attempt, the Airports would have closed in late February until Easter
        If Hospitals reaching Tipping point was a genuine risk they laboured into the dark hours with and kept them from their sleep, they’d have made sure Consultant Contracts with the Privates were agreed first before the bed hires, as well as relocating screening services to those facilities – they already had the set up to negotiate all this BTW, the NTPF (they do it all the time) but somehow that Leo led acting Government decided to take care of “them” themselves –
        They’d also have stopped work on the site of the biggest hospital in the State, James’
        (NCH)
        If testing was so competent, all those repurposed GAA properties and City Quay centres would have being at at least 50% capacity
        And have enough reagent available before even unveiling and photo’opping and video newsreels were splung out

        There would have been a Special (temporary) Pandemic Minister with a Budget separately managed created by the then Acting and the new now Government
        instead of lobbing more billions into what they already know as a Failing HSE – where we all know not one single yoyo of it will be well spent or capable of any contribution to impacting this pandemic

        Why didn’t they make the HSE apply for funds separately to a special Pandemic Management Fund,
        Same for the Schools, Same for other Services pulling it all out of nowhere at a street / factory floor level

        Why has Millions being paid out for additional Recruitment, yet we have less manpower hours available today, than we had this time last year

        Believe me the people at the top here, have zero empathy or bed side manner for what is actually happening outside their own bubbles
        And they have no plan to recover or even get the Country back rocking – in any sort of Normal

        They will keep locking this Country down until they can’t leave their own houses without tripping over people begging

        They are all incapable of any sort of shared experience with the 1000s of people that will never work again, the 1000s of people that didn’t get to say goodbye, the 1000s of people that lost out on opportunities that will never come by again, the 1000s of people that nobody knows who or how they are doing

        And as I seem to remember your boyo BloJo didn’t give a toss himself, going around shaking hands with essential NHS workers

        Until he ended up getting shifted into ICU himself

        Reply
        1. Charger Salmons

          ‘ Believe me the people at the top here, have zero empathy or bed side manner for what is actually happening outside their own bubbles’

          I would believe you if you could provide concrete evidence rather than what you think about the intentions of the coalition. I’m no great fan of either Varadkar or Mehole but I believe they’re attempting to make what they think are the best decisions in the best interests of this country and its people.

          Reply
          1. V aka Frilly Keane

            How about cutting PUP
            And giving themselves a payrise

            How about being able to recruit 64 Special Advisors – at the very top of the Public Sector
            With access to all sorts of private and confidential data as well as exerting exceptional Influence

            Yet getting a band of telephone call centre staff for contract tracing can’t be done with Jaysus knows how many external recruiters already r€tained

            What are the chances these special advisors had a 14 ish page application form to fill out
            Plus Garda vetting signed off before entering the halls of the Oireachtas huh?

            The very first Pandemic ‘Emergency’ Appointment was a PR
            Not an Epidemiologist or an Infectious Disease Specialist Hospital Consultant or a Pandemic Crisis Disaster Management whatever

            A PR

            PPE that folks
            + Sanitiser Units in our schools
            Stuff they put into our children’s hands that they recalled
            No such units in and around the Oireachtas mind

            In our children’s hands
            And it’s wasn’t last February when they were hit by a Covid Rogue wave either

            Tis worse they’re getting
            And they’re locking us all in + fines to make sure we don’t notice

            They cut PUP and gave themselves a payrise folks
            That’s all the evidence you need

            And who d’ púc are you to be telling me or anyone else familiar with your harassment of the Irish about what’s ‘in the best interests’ of this Country

          2. Charger Salmons

            As a citizen of this fine country I have every right as you to an opinion about what’s in the best interests of this country.
            And as someone who pays considerably more tax than you I’m going to be paying a lot more for this year than you ever will.
            There’s a touch of racism in your comment as well – would you say the same thing to a Nigerian or East European who occasionally has a negative view on Ireland ?
            ‘ Go home if you don’t like it ‘ ?
            How long before it comes down to
            No Blacks
            No Dogs
            No Brits.

            Disgraceful altogether.

          3. Vanessanelle

            How dare you introduce other Nationalities and then accuse me of racism
            A lad with a notoriously long established history that includes banks of posts knocking the Paddys
            And not just on this forum either

            I didn’t – NOT ONCE, mentioned your own Nationality or Citizenship
            NOT ONCE

            I reckon my own archive, here and on all the other forums, that you yourself are no stranger to, will leave nobody in doubt as to my own credence and credibility, probity and politics

            and how the púc do you know what sums of tax I pay? Or what I’m going to be liable for at YE 2020?

            Huh?

            ‘ Go home if you don’t like it ‘ ?
            How long before it comes down to
            No Blacks

            Don’t you dare put those words into my mouth again

            Seriously Broadsheet, if you want me to eff off
            just say it

          4. Charger Salmons

            Not mention my nationality or citizenship NOT ONCE you say twice ?
            Posts knocking the ‘ Paddys ‘ you say ?

            From earlier this afternoon.
            ” Charage – ye probably recognise the lad
            he picked up milk but no bikkies

            typical begrudgery Brit around the office alright ”

            Mind you don’t trip over your own hypocrisy when you climb down off your high horse.

          5. Vanessanelle

            Some might find it interesting and handy that you decided to pivot on that post Charage
            And I’m pretty sure there’s loads underneath here that’ll troll up to +1 you
            forgetting of course that most of them now call themselves Paytriots

            But I’m OK with pointing at a Union Jack wearing Leinster Rubgy Supporter and calling him wtf I like
            And sniggering at the same time
            and doing so without even the slighted finger crossed that an Ape like you might pounce on it to grab some breathing space

            You’ve always been very good at that
            In fairness

            I’m actually laughing here now, remembering a particular skirmish you got yourself into back in the AFR days
            and not tripping on my hypocrisy
            But yours – skitting actually

          6. Charger Salmons

            V – AFR days ? I haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.Seriously.
            Nice try at back-pedalling when you’ve been caught out by the way but it fools no-one.
            My rule on here is that if you want to dish it out you’ve got to expect some ack ack in return.
            Toodles.

          7. Papi

            Your response to children dying was to blame the French. That’s it. The bloody frogs. You’re a bigot and a racist and very little else.

          8. V aka Frilly Keane

            Ah Charage

            You seriously think I don’t know how to take it
            Here
            Of all places

            Have you ever seen what’s under some of those Frilly Keane’s?
            Course you have
            Or what was posted by other Broadsheet columnists about me – under their own names and their anons. Course you have

            And I don’t think Broadsheet will thank any of us for me reminding all of ye what was posted – plenty of it still here btw, about me during a certain presidential campaign.
            Some of which was still being regurgitated as recently as a year ago
            Or what remains embedded in BS.tv chat pits

            Seriously?
            I don’t know how to take it

            If even one of those hard men there under the Contributors even got a whiff of a fraction of what a free speecher has said about me they’d be calling for protests, boycotts
            And all after they demanded I be cancelled

            And you think
            That if I dish it – I need a lesson on how to take it

            From you
            Of all people

            I didn’t hide
            Not once – from any of it
            Not the stuff in the Frilly Keane columns
            Not the stuff in Twitter – from TWO Broadsheet men
            Not the stuff yis all posted about me,
            Not once did I hide
            Not once

            Unlike so many of ye

    2. Tinytim

      Help me out here.. I assume I’m wrong – once the elderly has done a deal with the state to hand over % of estate at death ( for a place in a home) …isn’t it entirely in the states interest for that person to die?

      Reply
      1. E'Matty

        And then there’s the inheritance tax flowing from probate, the movement of wealth (the elderly are generally savers with prudent spending habits) to a younger generation likely to pump that windfall back into the economy through investments or purchases. The health service saves on prolonging of life treatment and then there’s the pension costs reduced. Property can even move back into the market increasing housing stock. When one thinks in purely profit and loss terms, as the most powerful do, old people dying is a pretty positive thing. There are even cultures who promote this idea of culling the elderly to promote new life (a rather entertaining, if gorey, play on this can be seen in the fictional movie Midsommer, though variations on such traditions have existed in many cultures worldwide for millenia).

        A rather dark thread of thought when one looks at the behaviour of numerous governments around the world pushing sick elderly people untested back into the nursing and care homes, where the vast majority of Covid deaths took place for almost every country. In fact, is it the case that for every country the nursing/care homes provided the vast majority of their deaths? If the sick had not being pushed into these homes, would we have seen anywhere near as many deaths around the world?

        If the virus had remained only out in the community and nursing and care homes had been protected, or at the very least sick people not sent untested sick patients into them, how little would the death count be? 80% of deaths in Ireland came from such facilities. Most of the population are at little risk from this virus so use the most vulnerable to provide your inflated death rate. No big death rate, nothing to support Project Scare the S Out of Everyone, no incentive for lockdowns or restrictions. One could ask if there was a plan to have this virus run through nursing homes accellerating the passing of those already in the last months, thereby providing a period (2 months) with a high death count, then use that death count to induce fear and submission from the public for the ongoing months to progress your programme to restructure the entire economy and society. They needed some rise in deaths, even for a short period, if people were to succumb to their fearmongering. Their actions led directly to them getting that raised death rate. But, people in power would never do such a thing….

        Reply
  7. f_lawless

    I don’t know, I find it all very sinister – I get the feeling we’re not being told the full story. The ‘mad modellers’ in the UK are forecasting a “second wave more deadly than the first” according to the front page of the Telegraph. Yet looking at the official statistics and graphs https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending16october2020 there’s nothing to suggest that that will be the case.

    Have to say, starting to wonder is a new more virulent strain of SARS-Cov-2 going to appear ‘out of the blue’ just as a vaccine is being rolled out? The other night we had Tomas Ryan on Prime Time pushing his extreme, totalitarian-like solution to dealing with the virus, telling us “it’s very dangerous and could change next year”. \Why say such a thing?

    Reply
    1. Vanessanelle

      Course we’re not

      Believe me Leo & the Confidence & supplied Government knew a lot more last January – even at New Years, than they’re letting on

      and one of these days someone on the NPHET committee will go rogue
      probably on the back of another leak or a shafting

      and hang Leo etc out to dry

      Reply
      1. E'Matty

        McDowell has been an unexpected ray of light in this madness, and I’m not a fan. You can have all the Ivor Cummins and Professor Guptas you want, but it is a voice like McDowell’s that will penetrate the AB voting class in this country, even those who dislike him. Having him speak out makes it more socially acceptable for the local accountant or solicitor or business owner to publicly voice such concerns about the approach being adopted by the government. It’s easy for people to seek to dismiss any number of individual doctors, or online bloggers as cranks, but McDowell and his Law Library and political credentials allows “respectable members of the community” to adopt such a position and not be lumped in with the “Far-right, racist, anti-vaxxer, Republican Ra heads”, or whatever attempt to deride and demonise those who question this government driven narrative they have this week. I am sure his articles are annoying the government far more than many of the other voices out there challenging their approach.

        I am quite surprised and would applaud his bravery in adopting the position he has. He is very publicly going directly against aspects of a very powerful global agenda.

        Thank you for posting the article pdf as well SOQ. I refuse to subscribe to the IT, but did want to read that article earlier today, so thanks.

        Reply
      2. Vanessanelle

        Immediately you have to be drawn to a detail that also points to the Confidence & Supply Government and the Acting Government’s biggest failures

        That they were able to summon 5,000 beds
        – But zero treatment or clinical staff to compliment them

        That they were able to summon 5,000 beds
        – yet people are still sleeping in doorways

        That they were able to summon 5,000 beds
        – yet couldn’t recruit 50 entry level clerks to staff track and trace facilities

        That they were able to summon 5,000 beds
        – but only managed 16 extra ICU beds

        All of it
        TBH
        points to stuff I’ve been cribbing about for years
        that they make these National Top Table Grand Announcement National Broadcaster n’all decisions that actually should be make locally

        ie The Housing Agency making Housing Policy Decisions Nationally, when tis local Authority Housing Depts that are best placed to managing the housing needs in their areas

        ie. The HSE in Steevens Hospital rolling out national Strategic Health Planning, Staffing, Facilities and Treatment Programmes, even Purchasing Agreements when the old Local Health Boards were better placed to manage their local community health care needs

        ie Irish Water – when local Authorities and group Water Schemes did a better and more efficient job

        ie Rural Broadband – ha ha ha ha

        We’re in this together huh

        Reply
      3. Formerly known as @ireland.com

        E’Matty SOQ F_Lawless – How is your “casedemic” going? Which one asked recently “Name one country who had a hospital system that couldn’t cope in the last six months?”

        Well, it is no longer a “casedemic.”

        You can see plenty of places where the hospital system is about to be overrun.

        I don’t like the virus. I don’t like lockdowns. I am not obsessed with it. I deal with reality.

        Reply
    2. Cian

      If you are wondering why people call.you conspiracy theorists just look at these posts.

      “starting to wonder is a new more virulent strain of SARS-Cov-2 going to appear ‘out of the blue’ just as a vaccine is being rolled out”

      “Believe me Leo & the Confidence & supplied Government knew a lot more last January – even at New Years, than they’re letting on”

      And “Very good piece by Michael McDowell”

      Reply
      1. f_lawless

        I don’t really care what condescending labels you throw out. We’ve gone past the point of the government’s approach making sense as it’s being presented. Considering the widespread damage that’s being done to society; the faulty modeling being used which hasn’t adapted to major new evidence about the virus as it has emerged; the secretive NPHET meetings, etc, is it any wonder that people start to speculate that there’s more to the story?

        For what It’s worth t think the government/NPHET have convinced themselves that what they’re doing is for the greater good, the ends justify the means – at least that’s how it was in the earlier days when they committed to the road they’re on. Too late to turn back now

        Reply
        1. bisted

          …f_lawless…you and all the anti-lockdowners lost again…NPHET advice was eventually heeded when even their model for the spread of new cases was exceeded…the government gambled for two weeks before they accepted the health advice…in that time the number of new cases exceeded 1000 per day which seems to be the threshold for fortress care homes to be breached…what motivates you?

          Reply
        2. f_lawless

          @bisted
          I’ve already responded to you with my opinion on the problems with basing policy decisions on PCR testing and the loose definition of what constitutes a “case”, etc.

          I’d highly recommend having a watch of this online lecture delivered yesterday by former UK Supreme Court judge, Lord Sumption. It’s in regards to the British government’s ongoing approach to the pandemic and the lasting consequences for British society, but it’s also directly applicable to the Irish situation. This is the bigger picture as I see it.

          https://youtu.be/amDv2gk8aa0?t=3268

          Quote:

          “..The British public has not even begun to understand the seriousness of what is happening in our country. Many, perhaps most of them, don’t care – or won’t care until it’s too late. They instinctively feel that ‘the ends justifies the means’. The motto of every totalitarian government which has ever existed.

          Yet what holds us together as a society is precisely the means by which we do things. It’s a common respect for a way of making decisions even if we disagree with the decisions themselves.

          It is very difficult to respect the way in which this government’s decisions have been made. It marks a move to a more authoritarian model of politics which will outlast the present crisis..

          The next few years will see a radical transformation in the relationship between the state and its citizens and with it will come an equally fundamental change in our relations with each other. A change characterised by distrust, resentment and mutual hostility. In the nature of things, authoritarian governments fracture the societies which they govern.

          The use of political power as an instrument of mass coercion is corrosive. It divides and it embitters. In this case, it’s aggravated by a sustained assault on social interaction which will sooner or later loosen the glue which has helped us to deal with earlier crises. The unequal impact of the government’s measures erodes any sense of national solidarity…”

          Reply
        3. f_lawless

          Comment never appeared. Maybe triggered by youtube link? I’ll try posting again without
          __________________
          @bisted
          I’ve already responded to you with my opinion on the problems with basing policy decisions on PCR testing and the loose definition of what constitutes a “case”, etc.

          I’d highly recommend having a watch of this online lecture delivered yesterday by former UK Supreme Court judge, Lord Sumption. It’s in regards to the British government’s ongoing approach to the pandemic and the lasting consequences for British society, but it’s also directly applicable to the Irish situation. This is the bigger picture as I see it.

          (Title on Youtube: “Government by decree – Covid-19 and the Constitution: Lord Sumption”)

          Quote:

          “..The British public has not even begun to understand the seriousness of what is happening in our country. Many, perhaps most of them, don’t care – or won’t care until it’s too late. They instinctively feel that ‘the ends justifies the means’. The motto of every totalitarian government which has ever existed.

          Yet what holds us together as a society is precisely the means by which we do things. It’s a common respect for a way of making decisions even if we disagree with the decisions themselves.

          It is very difficult to respect the way in which this government’s decisions have been made. It marks a move to a more authoritarian model of politics which will outlast the present crisis..

          The next few years will see a radical transformation in the relationship between the state and its citizens and with it will come an equally fundamental change in our relations with each other. A change characterised by distrust, resentment and mutual hostility. In the nature of things, authoritarian governments fracture the societies which they govern.

          The use of political power as an instrument of mass coercion is corrosive. It divides and it embitters. In this case, it’s aggravated by a sustained assault on social interaction which will sooner or later loosen the glue which has helped us to deal with earlier crises. The unequal impact of the government’s measures erodes any sense of national solidarity…”

          Reply
        1. GiggidyGoo

          Hes actually very bad these days. Time was when he could google arguments and present them in an intelligent manner. These days it’s the equivalent of the Civil Servant with a guaranteed job so doesn’t give too much of a damn

          Reply
          1. V aka Frilly Keane

            ‘C!an’ is a shared login
            Not the only one here either – if ye haven’t noticed

            But at least ‘C!an’ is honest and decent, and attempts accuracy, and remains on the topic and within the facts
            the purpose of the login is not sly or vindictive
            Or out to offend or defame
            Or harass
            Or instigate trouble or provoke
            Or gaslight

            More good than bad days/ shifts
            In fairness
            Lads are probably off sick

          2. Formerly known as @ireland.com

            I think the facts have overtaken your view of the virus. What is Ivor saying this week? Your jobs and economy would be a lot better off if the virus is under control. Wearing masks cost no jobs. Just do it.

          3. SOQ

            Lockdowns cost lives Formerly- you know this.

            Why you are arguing for this sociopathic behavior is only a question your conscience can answer.

          4. Cian

            V, for someone that has suffered abuse on BS over the years you are very quick to call out others.

            I’m the only person that posts under this name/icon; there is another Cian that posts from time to time but under a different icon. I assume it’s just another bloke called Cian.

          5. Vanessanelle

            But at least ‘C!an’ is honest and decent, and attempts accuracy, and remains on the topic and within the facts
            the purpose of the login is not sly or vindictive
            Or out to offend or defame
            Or harass
            Or instigate trouble or provoke
            Or gaslight

            qualifies as having a go? Seriously Cian

            ye’re like sugar lumps around here

            Or is just your default setting to make yourselves look like tis ye getting the hard time?

          6. Cian

            @V
            Stop putting words in my mouth girl, I didn’t say “you were having a go”, what I actually said was “you are very quick to call out others.” you know – where you accused me of being shared login. You get very touchy when you’re accused of having multiple logins.

            ‘C!an’ is a shared login
            Not the only one here either – if ye haven’t noticed

            [snip… many of my excellent qualities]

          7. Charger Salmons

            With respect you’re more Primarkadonna than primadonna.
            But seeing as you’re here I’m still mightly confused about this AFR thing you mentioned last night.
            Genuinely confused.
            Can you give me a clue ?

  8. Lilly

    Syria had a population of almost 17 million yet they have only had 275 deaths from Coronavirus. What do they know that we don’t know?

    Reply
    1. E'Matty

      Interestingly and as an aside, on the wikipedia page for “COVID-19 pandemic in Syria” it shows their Ministry of Health announced the “recoveries” as much as it reported the cases and deaths. Just another piece of relevant data (like the age, underlying conditions, primary cause of death etc..) we are not provided in any adequate manner. Our crowd feed the public very selective pieces of data, always in support of the most hysterical and frightening interpretation possible. Inducing widespread heigthened fear and anxiety in the general populace clearly one of their prime objectives in managing this “crisis”.

      In respect of Syria’s death rate, I’d say most of the vulnerable elderly might have fallen to the hardship of war the past decade. If they could survive that, I’m sure Covid is a piece of pish.

      Reply
        1. Pat Mustard

          4 years of endless nonsense, commonly referred to as Russia gate. That didn’t stop you from slavishly parroting it, Nigel. That’s depressing.

          Reply
          1. Nigel

            You must be mistaking me for the guy who constantly brings up Russia in replies to my comments, which is you.

    2. Jibjob

      How to fight in a civil war and try to survive in utter chaos, when the government could be testing people for Covid-19 instead?

      Reply
        1. f_lawless

          But then again the Middle East Institute is not a reliable source,considering that over the years it’s been playing an active role in defending Middle Eastern regime change campaigns by the West and its allies. I see their article links to various Facebook posts to back up their claims of a sharp rise in deaths in Syria. Not exactly verifiable evidence.

          https://www.salon.com/2017/08/27/gerald-feierstein-a-gulf-funded-expert-pushing-catastrophic-war-on-yemen-appears-to-have-lied-to-congress_partner/

          “While the Middle East Institute and its employees are regularly quoted as experts by large corporate media outlets, what is never disclosed is that one of the Gulf regimes waging the war on Yemen — the United Arab Emirates — is bankrolling the very think tank defending its catastrophic war.

          The most recently available annual reports from the Middle East Institute from the years 2012 and 2013 show that the organization has received significant funding from the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and even the U.S. State Department. Other top funders are arms manufacturers including Northrup Grumman, Raytheon and BAE Systems, along with fossil fuel companies like Chevron and ExxonMobil and banks such as Goldman Sachs.”

          Reply

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