102 thoughts on “Friday’s Papers

  1. f_lawless

    Why isn’t this news getting more attention in the media? By all means, an individual should be free to wear a mask if they so choose, but the scientific evidence just isn’t there for authorities to enforce their use in a public setting. It never was there – as BBC correspondent Deborah Cohen said last July: the WHO reversed their policy on masks due to “political lobbying”

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/do-masks-stop-the-spread-of-covid-19-?fbclid=IwAR3yOcTDFnjHlxxSODW1rxdBDx9L1Y5q2UxAV9ZInZrGY3ERU2n5nbIEENU

    “Landmark Danish study shows face masks have no significant effect”
    (Prof Carl Heneghan & Tom Jefferson)


    “Yesterday marked the publication of a long-delayed trial in Denmark which hopes to answer that very question. The ‘Danmask-19 trial’ was conducted in the spring with over 3,000 participants, when the public were not being told to wear masks but other public health measures were in place. Unlike other studies looking at masks, the Danmask study was a randomised controlled trial – making it the highest quality scientific evidence…

    ..In the end, there was no statistically significant difference between those who wore masks and those who did not when it came to being infected by Covid-19.

    ..Many people have argued that it is too difficult to wait for randomised trials – but Danmask-19 has shown that these kind of studies are more than feasible.

    And now that we have properly rigorous scientific research we can rely on, the evidence shows that wearing masks in the community does not significantly reduce the rates of infection.”

    Reply
    1. Frank

      I find the mask thing one of the most puzzling of this covid hysteria. the truth is in March we were told do not wear masks then that message changes in September to ‘you must wear a mask.
      that is deeply strange and its also deeply strange that everyone thinks that this complete reversal is totally acceptable??
      the whole thing seems more about blanket compliance than public health. are we really just being whipped into shape for whats coming?

      Reply
          1. SOQ

            BBC correspondent Deborah Cohen said last July: the WHO reversed their policy on masks due to “political lobbying”

            Since when did political lobbying become a conspiracy? The word is being used so widely and so inappropriately that just like ‘racist’- it is is losing all meaning.

      1. Cian

        Back in march there was a global shortage of masks.

        @Frank: Question for you:
        If there is a shortage of masks, is it better to reserve masks for [30-days of] medical staff that are definitely dealing with covid-contagious patients, or [1 day of] the population at large that may never actually interact with a contagious person?

        *30-day Vs 1-day assumes there are 100K medical staff Vs 3m population

        Reply
      1. ReproBertie

        Masks, of course, are supposed to stop the wearer spreading the virus. It’s about the wearer protecting the public, not the other way around.

        Reply
        1. SOQ

          Whether they are supposed to protect the wearer or others, there is no empirical evidence from any country that after their mandatory introduction they made any difference- not one single country.

          Masks cannot sop the transmission of viruses and the rule of cause and effect has been thrown out the window- because of a quasi faith based belief which has no basis in science.

          Reply
          1. ReproBertie

            Which countries introduced mandatory wearing of masks without any other measures so that they could empirically test the efficacy of masks?

          2. SOQ

            Most countries have a clear date of introduction without other measures, including Ireland.

            Zero impact- masks do not stop viruses.

          3. ReproBertie

            Except for the study in Canada which showed a 25% reduction once mandatory mask wearing was introduced.

    2. ReproBertie

      I really have no interest in another pointless mask debate but I think it’s worth listening to the authors of this report who clearly state “ The findings, however, should not be used to conclude that a recommendation for everyone to wear masks in the community would not be effective in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections, because the trial did not test the role of masks in source control of SARS-CoV-2 infection. During the study period, authorities did not recommend face mask use outside hospital settings and mask use was rare in community settings (22). This means that study participants’ exposure was overwhelmingly to persons not wearing masks.”

      https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

      Reply
    3. Cian

      They never recommended wearing a mast to protect yourself.

      Wearing a mask is to protect other people from the mask wearer.

      That study doesn’t add any evidence to the question: “Does wearing a mask protect other people?”.

      It does, however, add evidence that wearing a mask doesn’t increase you own chance of getting infected.

      Reply
      1. SOQ

        Point me to one country where after the introduction of mandatory mask wearing- the infection rate took a noticeable downturn please?

        Reply
      2. f_lawless

        @Cian
        Not prepared to give an inch I see. Then again, would we expect any different from dogged defenders of government policy no matter what?

        https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/10/22/fridays-papers-56/#comment-2257060

        “Cian
        October 23, 2020 at 9:27 am

        Interesting – I hope it gets published soon.

        Out of curiosity, if this RCT study were to show that masks do provide additional protection from COVID – would that change your mind on masks and would you support them? Or would you look for reasons to rubbish the trial?”

        Reply
        1. Cian

          Huh? I welcomed the study and said it should be published.

          I also pointed out in another post on that same thread the same point – that the study wouldn’t be useful in knowing if masks protect other people.

          The reason (AFAIK) I am wearing a mask is to protect other people if I get infected.

          So how do you do a RCT on that? 3,000 people with masks. 3,000 without masks. How do i measure that wearing a mask stops other people getting infected?

          https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/10/22/fridays-papers-56/#comment-2257069

          The study adds evidence that wearing a mask doesn’t increase your own chance of getting infected. The Canadian study that ReproBertie supplied suggests masks help others.

          I see two things:
          1. wearing a mask doesn’t harm the mask wearer +
          2. everyone wearing masks reduces the spread of covid.

          The conclusion I draw from these two is that mandatory masks in public areas is a good idea.

          Reply
        2. SOQ

          Top pathologist Dr. Roger Hodkinson told government officials in Alberta during a zoom conference call that the current coronavirus crisis is “the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on an unsuspecting public.””

          “Masks are utterly useless. There is no evidence base for their effectiveness whatsoever,”

          “Paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signalling. They’re not even worn effectively most of the time. It’s utterly ridiculous. Seeing these unfortunate, uneducated people – I’m not saying that in a pejorative sense – seeing these people walking around like lemmings obeying without any knowledge base to put the mask on their face.”

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEo3rnU12jw

          Are we still blocked from posting bit chute links Bodge?

          Reply
          1. Cian

            and their neighbours’s had 2,065 covid deaths yesterday.
            In 2019 there were an average of 7,777 deaths in the US each day.
            This would be 27% of an average day’s deaths.

            But it’s all a hoax.

          2. SOQ

            Don’t you ever get tired trying to defend these idiots?

            Dr. Hodkinson pointed out on the call, that his current role as CEO of a biotech company, Western Medical Assessments, which manufactures COVID tests means, “I might know a little bit about all this.”. He spoke of the unreliability of PCR tests, noting that “positive test results do not, underlined in neon, mean a clinical infection.” Furthermore the doctor believes all test should stop immediately because the inflated “fake numbers are driving public hysteria.”

            Dr. Roger Hodkinson’s credentials are extremely impressive, he received his general medical degrees from Cambridge University in the UK, and then became a Royal College certified pathologist in Canada (FRCPC). Dr. Hodkinson was the President of the Alberta Society of Laboratory Physicians and Chairman of a Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons committee in Ottawa. The Doctor was also a pathologist with the Medical Examiner’s Office in Edmonton determining the cause of death.

            https://rairfoundation.com/renowned-pathologist-calls-coronavirus-the-greatest-hoax-ever-perpetrated-its-just-another-bad-flu-watch/

          3. Cian

            @SOQ
            You aren’t very consistent with your “experts”.

            Today you are using an argument from authority Dr. Roger Hodkinson’s credentials are extremely impressive, […]
            But you happily ignore other people with equally impressive credentials. Why? Because they disagree with your worldview.

            Other times you are pushing some rotund aquatic avian engineer as the new messiah.

  2. Charger Salmons

    Apparently Stephen Kenny is blaming the 3-0 defeat of Ireland at Wembley on the wrong movie being played to the squad before the match.
    He wanted the stirring Daniel Day-Lewis anti-English epic In the Name of the Father.
    But in a DVD mix-up they played one of the star’s earlier movies – My Two Left Feet.

    Oh, suit yourselves…

    Reply
    1. Charger Salmons

      New just in – the FAI is investigating reports that manager Stepehen Kenny attempts to gee-up players in his team talk before Ireland’s 0-0 draw with Bulgaria may have back-fired.
      Apparently he played a Wombles video but failed to warn hi steam that Great Uncle Bulgaria was actually much fitter than his workout routine would have them believe.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxX7v_5OrfM

      Reply
    1. GiggidyGoo

      Good save Steve.

      – RTE is the State broadcaster.
      – RTE is a Semi-State company
      – RTE is, we are told, a Public Service Broadcaster
      – RTE receives the bulk of the license fee that has been forced from the public with threats of imprisonment.
      – RTE receives top ups and bail outs with the public’s taxes
      – The people in those photographs are paid from license fees and our taxes.
      – Some people in those photographs dare to broadcast the government and NPHET lines to us day in/day out while keeping a straight face

      Now, they (like Woulfe, Calleary, Hogan etc.) are well aware of the rules and recommendations as regards gatherings and social distancing and mask-wearing. (they’re reporting and discussing them week in, week out). And you see the result in those photos. One photo is of some of them actually standing on a ‘Please observe Social Distancing’ floor sticker. Big joke and two fingers to the rest of us – nice little after-dinner laugh?

      The people in those photographs are paid by us. Some are on yearly pay that would take some normal people 20 years or more to earn. Their attempts at excuses will be interesting. What will they apologize for?

      That was blatant. There should be multiple resignations. If there aren’t, then the Government and NPHET can .*. right off.

      Reply
      1. V aka Frilly Keane

        + V

        Meanwhile still no YE 2019 Accounts

        As a by the by
        Since I saw some criticism here yesterday
        The GAAs YE is 31. 10
        I’m prepared to be ye a Cork Battenburg
        That their Annual Report for YE 2020 will be published before New Year’s Eve

        And -the way tis looking anyway
        Before the crowd above’s
        And the FAIs

        Reply
      2. bisted

        …when the history of the present plague is eventually written, it will become clear who were the good guys and who were the bad guys…whose actions were for the common good and whose weren’t…there is a particular seam of ugly selfishness that has emerged from the outset…it manifests all around us and occasionally rears it’s ugly head in the form of a display of disdain such as this at RTE or the Oireactas golfers.

        Top of the list of good guys I expect to find NPHET…the triumph of science led facts over political expediency…

        Reply
        1. GiggidyGoo

          There won’t be any punishment for these either I suppose. Another Day in Paradise will be order of the day.
          There’s actually no excuse for them.
          Will there be a Prime Time Special on it?

          Reply
        2. V aka Frilly Keane

          The real issue is how it actually impacted those
          Like in the groups you named above Bisto
          RTÉ, the Oireachtas Golfers
          And yes – the Majority membership of NPHET (who are Dept of Health/ HSE permanent & Pensionables + increments * Flexi time)

          Which is sweet FA

          Not one of those – beyond cancelled holidays and being discommoded with a bit home schooling, or having to tidy out the box room for an emergency office,
          or dickie up the shed (◠‿◕)
          Not one really felt the pinch of lockdown in any way similar to most of us

          So they were all unfamiliar with the reality of the restrictions

          What was imposed on the rest of us – and the cost of the losses
          They never experienced or even had to try and figure out – not for a day to day hand-to-mouth plan to get through it on PUP
          or even long term financial replanning etc, mortgage holidays, business losses, career impacts

          Life as normal – pretty much
          Continued for them so they never adapted
          Or adjusted their beheavior

          In fact RTÉ probably saved substantial costs
          particularly programming production costs like the Late Late, having content provided to them for free like the virtual Paddys Day, plus endless news items being streamed in via zoom n’ what have you

          + Sean O’Rourke’s pension top up gig btw

          Reply
        3. SOQ

          NPHET as good guys? You are having a laugh?

          Those authoritarian zealots will go down in history as being responsible for the biggest single act of malfeasance in the history of the state. If there is any justice at all, they will be dragged before a court.

          Their projections have consistently being wrong and their complete disregard for the social, health and economic damage caused is nothing short of criminal- not that the politicians are much better.

          If they are such followers of science then let them publish their models and other data that they are using to wreck this country- but they won’t now will they?

          They won’t even publish the bloody meeting minutes in a timely fashion- they shouldn’t just be disbanded, they should be prosecuted- every single last one of them.

          Reply
          1. Cian

            An replace them with what?
            Ivor “There will be no second wave” Cunnims?
            who pushes for the Swedish “let’s kill 950% to 1200% more of our people that our nearest neighbors”?

          2. SOQ

            Replace them with an advisory group who will consider ALL all the implications of loockdowns because that shower don’t even want to know about the wider societal or economic impacts- absolutely criminal.

          3. v AKA Frilly Keane

            Replacing is not the solution

            realigning the balance and the composition of the members definitely

            More private sector, SME reps
            Central Bank liquidity wonks
            Travel and Airline Industry reps
            FMCG Logistics reps
            Reps from the Arts & Entertainment
            Reps from Live Events, and Sport

            even someone like me – personal insolvency and crisis household debts
            and someone else like me, from the Credit Union Movement

      3. Cian

        Based on that post, will you also call for Mary Lou McDonald to step-down as head of SF and resign her seat over her attendance of Bobby Storey funeral? Also Pearse Doherty and all others that attended?
        Not forgetting the NI ones: Michelle O’Neill and the various MLAs.

        And if not, why not?

        Reply
          1. Cian

            So you are avoiding the question.

            Why should SF/IRA offenders be treated differently to Golf/RTE-gate offenders

          2. GiggidyGoo

            Keep to the story lad. Don’t be deflecting, diverting. Once the Bobby Story comes up again, maybe because of an interview by RTE with Mary Lou McDonald, you can start a thread.

          3. GiggidyGoo

            No, you’re forgetting that it’s you who tries to tag me with the whataboutery, deflection, diversion line. When you do it it’s ok? The only hypocrite is you.

      4. Anti Bots

        Does SF get state funding (I know most of their funding comes from teh Northern Bank). But if state funding is a reason to fall on your soword then why did your leader not do so after the terrorist funeral in the north?

        Reply
      1. SOQ

        I was not touting anything- I was quoting Sunetra Gupta- a world leaders in infectious disease epidemiology and one of the authors of The Great Barrington Declaration.

        Do you honestly think they are now going to come out and say ‘no sorry we got it completely wrong?’ By next month expect to find that figure as creep up to 30 and then 40 etc. Way to many careers to be saved to just admit to it outright.

        Reply
        1. Cian

          Is it 25% or 80%?

          If it is 25% what does that say about Sunetra Gupta- a world leaders in infectious disease epidemiology and one of the authors of The Great Barrington Declaration.
          If it is 80% how the heck is there a second wave of Covid in the UK?

          Reply
          1. Cian

            Your daily flood of conflicting facts and youtube videos has been boring for some time. But I’m happy to highlight the inconsistency.

            Your ad hominem attack is duly noted.

  3. Shayna

    Not in the papers (too late), the North of Ireland is lifting Covid restrictions for a week for beauticians, hairdressers/barbers, cafés which don’t serve alcohol. Pubs remain closed. However, after the one week, they’ve got to close again for two weeks – to save Christmas? Let’s not forget that the professors at Stormont fell out with each other for three years and did not sit until January this year,

    Reply
  4. f_lawless

    Have to say, Trump’s legal challenge to the election results seems to have taken a turn for the faintly ridiculous.

    They’ve taken a leaf out of the Russiagater’s book: put the blame on an external enemy rather than turn the focus inward. I suppose you’d hardly expect thw Republican party to expose the ugly truth that, historically, they themselves are up to their necks in voting fraud – more so than the Democrats.

    Now the narrative put forward is that “communist money from Cuba, Venezuela and likely China” helped rig the US election. And the code used on the voting machines was commissioned by the late Hugo Chavez. Seems like just another layer of obfuscation
    https://mobile.twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1329486814558752769

    Reply
  5. Morning George

    If we still cannot decide if masks are affective in the fight against C19 it is not because we don’t know what masks are good at,it’s because we don’t know how C19 spreads.

    Reply
    1. Verbatim

      Oh George, a bit too early in the morning for you? We all know how the virus spreads, no different from how other viruses spread…! It’s plainly obvious that the mask-wearing is a waste of time and fresh air. Mask-wearing is an art that most people just aren’t into, they shove on a dirty one or wear the same one all day long… it’s more of a health hazard than a protection (except, perhaps, if someone who is infected sneezes or coughs beside you, the mask might stop an aerosol).

      Reply
      1. Cian

        it’s more of a health hazard than a protection
        hmmm… if you read the 1sst post (by f_lawless) the study suggests that there is no hazard to wearing a mask.

        Reply
    2. SOQ

      C19 does not spread George= only SARS-CoV-2- and that has been proven to be in cities and also infecting people tong before the disease known as CoVid-19 ever emerged.

      Reply
          1. Cian

            About 2,840,000 in 2019 (or ~213000 for 75% of year)

            Covid deaths in (9 months) of 2020 is 250,000 or ~12% (so far)

      1. ReproBertie

        Michigan lawsuits withdrawn. Wayne county’s certification not being overturned. Arizona lawsuit to prevent certification thrown out by the judge. Attempt to invalidate over 2,000 votes in Pennsylvania rejected.

        Any day now we’ll see the kraken of fraud evidence. Any day.

        Reply
        1. ian-oh

          I shaved the head back in June, did not suit me one bit. Haven’t touched it since, I now look ‘windswept’….

          :|

          Reply
          1. Janet, dreams of a steamed clootie

            and sure no better country for the windswept look, no wonder everyone straightens their curls flat, five minutes outside and you’re in the eighties

      1. Charger Salmons

        I know.
        I’m beginning to look a lot like Oliver Reed in his prime.
        Black curly locks, Mr Darcy-esque hairy chest, piercing blue eyes and a cheeky smile.
        Settle down V.
        There’s plenty to go round …

        Reply
  6. Johnny

    should be easily explained.

    oh.
    This is harassment pure and simple. This ‘inquiry’ by NYC democrats is 100% motivated by politics, publicity and rage. They know very well that there’s nothing here and that there was no tax benefit whatsoever. These politicians are simply ruthless.-Ivanka.

    NYT-yesterday.
    “Among the revelations was that Mr. Trump reduced his taxable income by deducting about $26 million in fees to unidentified consultants as a business expense on numerous projects between 2010 and 2018.

    Some of those fees appear to have been paid to Ms. Trump, The Times found. On a 2017 disclosure she filed when joining the White House as a presidential adviser, she reported receiving payments from a consulting company she co-owned, totaling $747,622, that exactly matched consulting fees claimed as tax deductions by the Trump Organization for hotel projects in Hawaii and Vancouver, British Columbia.”.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/19/nyregion/trump-fraud-investigations-taxes.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

    -so how does a full time employee consult again….. its political all right, no pardon as its state not fed.

    -Ivanka’s world changes a lot in two months, none of it good and forever.

    Reply
    1. v AKA Frilly Keane

      well on this side of the Pond
      Ivanka – receiving funds from a company whatever like that

      That’s a Money Laundering offence

      As for the other stuff – the company recording deductible expenses from Unidentified creditors
      well thats just bananas – shur that’s Enron again, in a kinda reverse ledger transaction way
      ie. Posting Unidentified charges to the Creditors (Payables) ledger and paying them (getting cash out of reach of Taxation. Dividends to shareholders) to connected parties – make yourself look less profitable

      Posting Unidentified Invoices to the Debtors (receivables) ledger – creating fake Sales Revenue and a phoney Debtors balance (current assets on the balance sheet btw) as well as faking pipeline contracts promising market outlook etc – making yourself look more profitable and worth investing it………

      Reply
      1. johnny

        ..over here its called payback,the NY AG is kick ass,she’s taking names:)

        “New York Attorney General Letitia James says her office is preparing a substantial list of legal actions for a potential Biden administration to begin quickly reversing Trump administration initiatives, she told NBC News in an interview.

        “We’re preparing a list. And the list is long,” she said Thursday.”

        https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/ny-attorney-general-letitia-james-developing-long-list-trump-actions-n1245358

        Reply
        1. v AKA Frilly Keane

          In fairness tho Johnny

          The Septics always took hard action against the White Collor stuff
          Zero Tolerence to the Enron cultprits
          Madoff
          etc

          Nothing would have happed here
          Bankruptcy proceedings, maybe Tax evasion, but shur’ the Former there would sort that out
          Banned from being Co Directors
          Loose their professional letters
          Put up with some sneery looks at the Tennis Club

          Reply
  7. Charger Salmons

    Phew.
    Third trip of the week to the bottle bank and the weekend has only just started.
    Who the hell did that bottle of Baileys ?
    Now That’s What I Call A Lockdown # 2

    Reply

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