“Lockdowns Are Causing More Deaths Than Covid by A Long Way”

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Last night.

Prime Time on RTÉ One.

Professor Bill Tormey, of Beaumont Hospital debates Professor Anthony Staines, of DCU, on the efficacy of the government’s rona lockdown response, saying:

“The problem is we’ve had NPHET and the television station here address the point in such a way that there’s massive panic. There is no trolley crisis in the hospitals because people are too afraid to go.

The bottom line is Lockdown is causing more deaths, more lives lost  than Covid by a long way.

Watch back here

54 thoughts on ““Lockdowns Are Causing More Deaths Than Covid by A Long Way”

    1. Fanacht

      So a whole nation is restricted in case someone else might get an infection with an average survival rate of 99.7%?

      Makes sense.

      1. Richie

        Just for sake of argument and because you introduced this number of 99.7%, which comes from somewhere I’m sure. If 0.3% die, then 0.3% of 5 million is 15,000 people. You okay with those numbers?

        1. Fanacht

          More hysteria –

          In September official figures put the number of deaths at 100 people from COVID.

          (All others recorded co- morbidities)

          Even if the 15k figure you magic out of the air is true (it isn’t) I still object to the unlawful restrictions imposed on a population the vast majority of whom will not get sick or transmit this alleged infection.

          I also object to the fake PCR numbers equating “cases” with illness being used as a rational for unlawful orders restricting the movement of healthy people.

          Or for the unlawful restrictions on every day trade.

          People die, all of them, and for all sorts of reasons.

          Only in delusional unreality do people not die of anything.

          Time to grow up and stop projecting your fear onto everybody else.

          1. ReproBertie

            “unlawful restrictions”
            “alleged infection”
            “unlawful orders”

            Ain’t touching this one.

        2. Micko

          I am okay with those numbers Richie.

          Especially when 1127 of the 2036 dead in Ireland weren’t even brought to the hospital.

          And only 133 of the dead in Ireland were brought to ICU

          That only happens to people who have no chance of survival or quality of life.

          Sad but unfortunately true ;(

          1. Nigel

            You and SOQ make some of the weirdest arguments, if they can be called that. Every now and then I scan one of either of your comments and I honestly have no idea what it is either of you are trying to say.

          2. Micko

            Really? I’ll simplify. ;)

            The majority of people who died from Covid-19 were unfortunately on the way out anyway.and were not even brought to hospital.

            Only 6% were placed in ICU

            They were at the end of life stage.

          1. Victor

            It’s simple, just do the maths.

            I did with the UK, I’m not going to look up all the numbers again, but the maths was,

            Population of the UK, 66.270,000
            People who died after testing positive, (very dodgy way to call it a covid death, but they do) 55127

            Thats less than 0.1% of the population.

            Done.

            You are wrong.

        1. Micko

          If it’s not safe and just as dangerous as it was in Oct/Nov – why are we opening for Christmas then? @Formerly

  1. johnny

    Looks like 2/3 captured here.

    “Now, in the most updated count to date, researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found that nearly 300,000 more people in the United States died from late January to early October this year compared the average number of people who died in recent years. Just two-thirds of those deaths were counted as Covid-19 fatalities,”

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/20/cdc-data-excess-deaths-covid-19/

    Lots places open,but everyone staying home, office occupancy is in mid teens resulting in midtown resembling the bowery.

    1. Cian

      For context there were 2,839,205 deaths in the USA in 2019.
      if we say early October is ~75% of the year and then you expect 75% of the deaths then you would estimate 2.2 million deaths by early October – but they have had 2.5 million or a 14% increase!

      1. johnny

        this was the context for me,in relation to this topic,ive really no idea but id expect sessional affects,just more now.
        …the 300,000 number probably also includes people who died because they were scared to seek out medical care because of the pandemic or had their care interrupted, and because of other causes…

  2. Bitnboxy

    The problem is that Bill Tormey came across as a complete loon and surrendered to simply ranting and raving so much so that it was hard to make out what he was actually saying. Good TV but I doubt he won many over apart from the already converted who were lapping it up. Had he taken a more measured approach, toned down the shrill and paper waving not to mention the flogged “Professor of Architecture in UCD” point, he might have caused a few people to listen. A wasted opportunity for a decent debate.

    1. SOQ

      Oh ok so criticise the guy’s style of delivery rather than address the points he made then is it? Predictable is an understatement.

      1. Bitnboxy

        Bull. Bill Tormey gave a masterclass in how not to win people over and make a hash of decent points. His style of argument is “you are either 100% with me or totally against me”. No nuance- zero to 100 in seconds roaring about an Architecture Professor. I watched, I laughed and aside from the “face nappy” brigade and already converted, Tormey did not acquit himself well. No matter how much it causes you pain, the vast bulk of the country tend far more toward Staines than Tormey. And Tormey had good points- he just could not articulate them properly.

    2. GiggidyGoo

      I’d have to agree with that about Tormey on how he came across. His points (though hard to extract) once extracted were valid though.

      Staines however tried an Oscar-winning entrance – wearing a mask when there was no need to (a fact supported by him taking it off after a few minutes). So what was his agenda?

  3. Barry the Hatchet

    Bill Tormey is an absolute dose. I had hoped we’d seen the back of him the last time he failed to get elected.

    1. Bitnboxy

      Same word choice back in 2006 as the one I used above to describe his style – “shrill”. No wonder Tormey couldn’t manage to get himself elected. A dose indeed.

  4. BS

    I notice SOQ’s promotion/threat of violence and death against people is still up on the morning papers section.

    Do you support such views bodger? If these were made on any other platform they would have been removed.

      1. BS

        What’s the difference between what Alex Jones was banned from YouTube for and what SOQ said?

        He said politicians should hang from lamp posts.

        SOQ has said medical experts should hang from lamp posts.

        It’s not a “figure of speech” it’s a promotion of a view of violence. Free speech doesn’t cover threats of violence

      1. Mexico'86

        How about your anti-Semitic joke?
        Wasn’t particularly funny tbh.
        Just amplifying a trope.
        A trope about Jews.
        Which is anti-Semitic, all joking aside.

        1. Junkface

          Jesus Mexico86, that was my point. George Soros conspiracies are usually based on anti-semitism. That’s why I put a wink on the end. I’m making fun of conspiracy loons. Do keep up

          1. Mexico'86

            I would argue that Ian-Oh had already made the
            point and was obviously making fun of the
            far right leaning fascist loons of the world.
            You just added an anti-Semitic trope.
            The wink didn’t nullify that or make it humorous, would be my point.
            Each to their own I suppose.

          2. Micko

            @Mexico’86

            Stop getting offended on behalf of Jewish people.

            Unless you’re Jewish. In which case – shalom. ;)

          3. Junkface

            @Mexico 86
            Jewish comedians have made this joke before! Dear lord. Maybe a movie like Blazing Saddles would go way over your head? Even though its over 40 years old. I take it you are not familiar with the comedy of Don Rickles either.

          1. BS

            I’m sure I’ll disappear soon enough…

            Broadsheet really arent racking up a good track record here….

            Gemma O’D
            SOQ’s ramblings on sweden/lockdown/somethingsomething and now threatening violence….

            not a good look Bodger

          2. Micko

            @BS

            I dunno man – track records mean nada.

            I’d say Broadsheet’s web traffic is through the roof since the start of this whole pandemic thing.

            Sure half of us a practically addicted at this stage.

            I had to install a ‘Stay Focused’ extension on Chrome just for this site alone FFS

            Obviously, I’m in safari right now… ;P

  5. Eoineyo

    I really liked when Dr Bill went on the late late show and along with Pat the plank Kenny ambushed award winning journalist and one of the main characters in exposing Lance Armstrong, David Walsh, after he questioned Stephen Roche and his links to Ferrari the well known doctor who administered EPO.
    My favorite part was him talking about himself in the third person.

  6. Junkface

    What are the statistics on deaths caused by lockdowns compared to deaths caused by covid 19? Is it even something that can be accurately measured yet?

      1. johnny

        ..mental illness and addiction is often a long suicide note,does not always end with a bang,alone and with a whimper far more common,so could be years if we ever really know.
        then the irish stigma,he fell down stairs,died in a accident.
        (flung himself high on prescription pills after irelands mental health system failed him)

      2. Oro

        Dunno if you read that link but based on a direct use of last years numbers as basis for this years numbers they said they’re missing 370 cases. And allowed for a possible 2000 based on ?? But a 600% margin of error seems……Hrm.

        Anyway again if you read further it seems they’re at 100% detection for breast cancer (I thought everyone was saying there would be enormous numbers of missed breast cancer cases) 95% for lung cancer (within margin of error), and 65% of prostate cancer cases. So prostate cancer is where the large miss of cases lies (in the 3 they presented). Now if we look at prostate cancer specifically, we see two things. People diagnosed at early stages tend to have an extremely high rate of survival (around-100% 5year survival rate for stage 1&2) however that drops once it’s diagnosed at stage 3 significantly. However, few people are diagnosed at stage 3 because it’s a slow growing cancer and is typically picked up earlier with screening. Stage 3 is where pain also usually prompts a medical investigation resulting in diagnosis. Point being people that are diagnosed at stage 3 have not taken up their screenings. One can extrapolate that stage 3 cases will be diagnosed nonetheless this year(people
        in pain are still attending GPs) and that the missed cases will be almost exclusively stage 1/2, and those in stage 1 or 2 will just have a diagnosis delayed, but once they’ve previously taken part previously in screening its verrrrrry unlikely the disease will progress to a stage where their prognosis suffers much.

        TL;DR it obv hasn’t played out yet so is impossible to tell but this doesn’t look so significant.

        One final point is that while a specific individuals’ development of cancer is an inevitability, their development of COVID is not.

    1. ReproBertie

      More importantly, did the over 2,000 people whose deaths were caused by the lockdown die of lockdown or with lockdown?

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