141 thoughts on “Wednesday’s Papers

  1. SOQ

    No pubs until we have a vaccine screams The Mail.

    Even Facci himself is saying that that COVID-19 vaccines will only prevent symptoms from arising – not block (SARS-CoV-2) infection.

    I really get the feeling there are using the term ‘vaccine’ to returning some semblance of normality without back peddling on the claim that asymptomatics spread infection. The only rationale I can see is that if people don’t have symptoms- then they don’t spread it?

    1. ReproBertie

      ‘The primary thing you want to do is that if people get infected, prevent them from getting sick, and if you prevent them from getting sick, you will ultimately prevent them from getting seriously ill. If the vaccine also allows you to prevent initial infection, that would be great. What I would settle for, and all of my colleagues would settle for, is the primary endpoint to prevent clinically recognizable disease.’ is what Dr. Fauci said.

      Now, I don’t have your expertise in vaccines so could you explain how this is different to what other vaccines do? The measles vaccine, for example, which either stops the disease from developing or reduces the severity of the disease and the risk of serious complications.

      1. SOQ

        Yes he said that these vaccines will not prevent infection of SARS-CoV-2 which is fine but my issue is with the societal and political restrictions some are trying to build around them.

        How can you legally refuse certain goods and service to non vaccinated people when the manufacturers are clearly stating that thier vaccines will not inoculate against SARS-CoV-2 in the first place?

        Of course a lot of this is just the media scare mongering again- but it is a valid question.

        1. ReproBertie

          Sorry, I don’t see an answer to my question in there.

          How is this different to how other vaccines work?

          1. SOQ

            Some vaccines prevent the spread of infection, some do not.

            At this point, to proceed on that basis that these CoVid-19 vaccines prevent the spread of infection is plain wrong- and legally questionable.

          2. ReproBertie

            How do they prevent the spread of infection and how is that different to what Dr Fauci says these vaccines will do?

          3. paul

            I don’t think any vaccines ‘stop’ the spread of vaccines, they make an individual immune to infection but COVID will still live on the persons hands and in their nose and throat until it diminishes naturally without the ability to proliferate.

            In an ideal world, if everyone were inoculated, then the virus would flit around for a few weeks, be ineffective and then be gone. Eventually social distancing, hand washing, masks etc would stop it completely.

            If someone refuses to be inoculated then they can potentially carry it to someone who cannot be inoculated and cause them harm. An extremely selfish act.

            Where do you want to move the goalposts to now, SOQ?

          4. SOQ

            Hello paul- new name is it?

            That is the point- CoVid-19 vaccines do not make a person immune to infection.

            It is possible to become infected and to be infectious AFTER receiving one of these vaccines- they admit to this- which is way more than hygiene habits or a temporary residue sitting on someone’s skin.

            Therefore- what is the point of segregating people based on their vaccine status?

          5. ReproBertie

            Who admits that it’s possible to become infectious after receiving the vaccine and where do they admit it?

            And how is how this vaccine works different to how other vaccines work?

          6. SOQ

            @ mille- I said name not commentator

            @ Bertie- some vaccines are designed to prevent symptoms and some vaccines are designed to prevent infections. CoVid-19 is designed to prevent symptoms while others like HBV are designed to prevent infections.

            Now it may be the case that later down the line CoVid-19 vaccines will be proven to prevent infections and that will be great but right now, and for the foreseeable future- they are marketed as treating the disease rather than the virus.

          7. millie loves leather

            So why make mention of his name at all? I changed mine yesterday, and you said nothing*.

            *I’ll pretend I’m not offended that you haven’t noticed.

          8. SOQ

            The measles vaccine prevents against infection by the measles virus surely? That is not the same as the CoVid-19 vaccines.

          9. SOQ

            @ Millie- I didn’t want to be rude and mention your renewed interest in the ‘tie me up and call me Rosie’ scenarios.

          10. ReproBertie

            You’re the expert SOQ, that’s why I’m asking you.

            Do these vaccines work the same way as the measles vaccine? Because the measles vaccine doesn’t prevent infection, it prevents the disease developing which seems to be how Dr. Fauci is saying these vaccines will work.

          11. paul

            @SOQ: same lower-case ‘paul’ that I’ve been for years, avatar is tied to my email address, I’ve no idea how to change it.

            The only way to prevent viral infection is to keep your distance (some virii need more distance than others) or for something to kill it (like hand-washing) or stop the virus at it’s point of entry (like a mask).

            Everything else is just rendering the virus impotent.

          12. SOQ

            paul apologies if so- there is plenty of shape shifters around this parish- so my mistake.

            Yes that is the general trust of what is being said- that these vaccines will not replace all the usual precautions and I have no problem with that.

            It is this crew- usually journalists- who keep promoting dystopian scenarios about denying services and health passports which bugs me- the flip side of the conspiratorials if you like. Technology NEVER lives up to the hype and ‘the next big thing’ never is.

            All these promises about vaccines and now the day has finally arrived- we realise we are STILL going to have to live with the thing- just like authors of The Great Barrington Declaration predicted.

    2. Charger Salmons

      Interestingly it seems that politics, instead of science, is the reason why EU member states have not opted for the quicker vaccine approval procedure the UK went for.
      As the first UK trucks of vaccine left the Pfizer plant in Belgium this morning Jens Spahn, the German health minister, said the EU is going through full process related to a decision on collective procurement.
      “All 27 members will have access to vaccines at the same time otherwise some members may have been able to procure vaccines at an earlier stage that others”
      “We have member states including, Germany, who could have issued such an emergency authorisation if we’d wanted to. But we decided against this and what we opted for was a common European approach to move forward together.”
      I don’t recall this ” solidarity ” happening in the mad scramble for PPE in the early days of the crisis when it was everyone for themselves.
      Countries in the EU have the right to do exactly what the UK did as Blighty is still entirely within the EU medicines regime until January 1st.
      National medicines regulators are able to approve unlicensed products for use in response to the spread of pathogens.
      So there really is no reason why Ireland cannot be giving vaccines to care home residents and frontline medical staff throughout December in much the same way as the UK is doing.

      1. ReproBertie

        “I don’t recall this ” solidarity ” happening in the mad scramble for PPE in the early days of the crisis when it was everyone for themselves.”

        Clearly the EU learned from the mistakes of the early days of the crises.

        1. Charger Salmons

          I dunno.
          If my old mum was still alive and in her care home I think I’d much rather she had the vaccine now than wait until the end of December in aid of European solidarity …

          1. ReproBertie

            We don’t yet have a date for the vaccine roll out in Ireland. It may well be December. Presumably we have to wait for DO’B to sort out a vaccine distribution company first.

  2. Gerry

    Daily Express speaking truth to power as usual, declining a headline about the record Tory rebellion, and going with the real story of the day. What courage!

      1. Gerry

        What a good point Charger, so apt in fact that I withdraw my comment above, the Express is an excellent newspaper, courageous, and not afraid to challenge the views of its readers. And Boris is going from strength to strength, it’s been a great few weeks for him. Hear hear! Doubles all round.

        “There go the people. I must follow them. I am their leader!” Alexandre Ledru-Rollin

        1. Charger Salmons

          Whatever about Boris and the Daily Express you were factually incorrect in saying yesterday’s Tory rebellion was a record.
          It wasn’t,
          By a very big margin.
          And it has been largely overshadowed by the excellent vaccine news coming out of Blighty.
          If you’re going to step up to the plate there’s no point going to a knife-fight with a pea-shooter.
          Get off your knees man.

          1. Gerry

            It’s a record rebellion for Boris, for this parliament. See front pages of the Guardian and the Times. I’m not responding to the rest of your post, it’s irrelevant whataboutery and ad hominem trolling.

          2. Charger Salmons

            Now you see the difference.
            A record Tory rebellion means the biggest rebellion of all time.
            A record rebellion ” for this parliament ” which is less than a year old is small beer by comparison.
            Like a minor uprising compared to a full insurrection.
            The biggest rebellion of recent times was last year when 118 Tory MPs voted against Theresa May’s Brexit deal.
            And prior to that 97 MPs opposed John Major’s gun legislation.
            But the biggest rebellion in Parliament in modern times was in 1993 when 139 Labour MPs voted against’s Britain’s involvement in the Iraq War.
            If you’re going to sarcastically accuse the Express of speaking ” truth to power ” a chap really should get his own facts in order first.
            Consider yourself schooled.

          3. Toby

            The Brits have always underestimated “minor uprisings”. Well matey, Irish rebels have a message- Consider yourself Schooled.

        2. scottser

          the express is owned by reach plc, which also owns the mirror, the star etc. the pandemic has seen it cut over 500 jobs and place another 1,000 on furlough. they own over 80 titles in the uk and they will consolidate even further to offset their print losses – down by over one third from two years ago.
          it’s no wonder the quality of newspaper coverage is dropping everywhere although in the case of the express it doesn’t have that far to fall.

        3. Toby

          Great news coming out of Blighty indeed.

          The High Street is in free fall, tycoons quaffing champagne, collusion in killing solicitors, children being fed by a Black footballer while the Black Duchess is in exile. And Andrew, the favourite son, lauded by the people, Mountbatten the child abuser being mourned and America refusing to give you a trade deal until you behave on the border and stop lying like toe rags.

          Long and painful may your fall be.

          1. Toby

            Have you read the Kincora scandal Charger? Do you and Missus Charger prefer that episode of cruel pedophillia at the heart of your Crown? Or do you prefer the gentler, maybe more acceptable abuse of Prince Andrew?

          2. Charger Salmons

            God loves a trier but if there’s one thing I can’t abide it’s repetitive snivelling.
            Into the Taedium Angulo you go Seamus.
            You’ll feel at home with the other losers.
            Cheerio.

          3. GiggidyGoo

            Aaaannnddd the Charger runs away.
            No getting away from being being top of Google results though, eh Charger Salmons?

          4. scottser

            ah, spaffer – you can’t stand repetitive snivelling yet you’re on here each day with several usernames claiming racist abuse because others call out your jingoistic tooty-poo fantasies.
            you should just hang it up lad – you’re just too obvious.

          5. Papi

            “Just let me be a bigot without calling me out on it! It’s very inconvenient!”
            Poor Spaffer, the racist homophobic hermit.

  3. :-Joe

    jerk-off bozo’s isn’t the worlds first fake ‘murican economy dollar trillionare for no reason…

    It’s great to know he’s looking out for all our interests and most of all his worker elves… or hi-s alves has he calles them in private…

    The scumbag pseudo-entrepeneur is as fake as santa.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY2znf8IVis
    #TheJimmyDoreShow bringing some x-mass-consumerism cheer and as always nailing it yet again

    Iamazombie is not any kind of business or service you should want to be using…

    Maybe don’t buy products from a corrupt corporate business that gets more corrupt and damaging to human rights and the environment the more you buy from and support it?…No?..

    Anyone even care about human rights and the environment anymore?…
    – Just mass consumerism and consumption is it, eh?..

    :-J

    1. Rob_G

      I’m surprised to see such an enthusiastic supporter of cryptocurrencies get so worked up over the environmental impact of any economic activity.

  4. Clampers Outside

    Fantastic news! Keira Bell and Mrs A won their case against Tavistock and Portman NHS.
    https://twitter.com/Transgendertrd/status/1333739241193562115?s=19

    This means an end to putting kids on puberty blockers, that are not, repeat ‘not’, harmless nor ‘reversible’. And an end to ideology being placed ahead of patient care and the care and facts put front and centre. It’s also an end to the narrow focused “affirmation” approach to care to be replaced with a greater emphasis on more all rounded care looking at all factors of the patients health.

    Already, the NHS, Stonewall UK, Mermaids, GIDS, and others are having to change advice given for children with, assumed to be, gender dysphoria.

    You can read a number of quotes from the Judges statement here – https://twitter.com/Transgendertrd

    Well done all, especially the child of Mrs A and Keira Bell.

    1. Junkface

      It is good news. I’m glad that some sort of common sense and precautions on this issue are breaking through. I can’t imagine how difficult it is to be a teenager over the last 10 years or so, never mind this woke trend/pressure that is pushing more teenagers than ever into misjudged transitioning. Let’s hope that many young lives are saved from irreparable damage.

    2. BS

      While it’s fantastic news I won’t hold my breath. Mermaids and stonewall have already come out with worrying statements and as their whole existence relies on the affirmation model they don’t go quietly.

    3. Daisy Chainsaw

      “I regret it so I want to stop everyone doing it.” We had those kind of zealots popping up during Repeal and we dismissed them because one person’s experience shouldn’t dictate what others should be prevented from doing. Funny how that’s suddenly changed.

      1. Junkface

        I don’t think that’s a fair comparison, and there are plenty of cases of late teens or people in their early 20’s that transitioned 5 years ago and deeply regret it. There are very good books written about this recently (Abigal Shrier). It’s also about helping parents who are scared to even speak on the subject publicly for fear of losing their jobs as well as worrying about their sons and daughters who are suggesting a transition.

        1. Daisy Chainsaw

          It’s what’s happened. What’s not fair about it? How is the “trans regret” lobby different?

          1. Junkface

            There is a big difference in even discussing both topics and access to clear information. Abortion information and procedures are something that has been well documented over the years, there are also good support networks.

            Treatments for young teens thinking of transitioning is a much newer and less researched topic, especially with regards to long term effects on mental health. It is also taboo for many people to even mention doubts about it publicly, less they be doxxed and fired from their jobs and called terfs by the woke reactionaries online.

            How you would describe an 800% increase in teens transitioning over the last 10 years? Teenagers are constantly pressured by their peers, and celebrity culture. Becoming trans has fallen into this type of thing. That is dangerous.

          2. Clampers Outside

            It is different because this is about best practice which has not been applied when using the “affirmation” approach to care of the patient.

          3. Nigel

            I don’t think people who hate trans people should be allowed to define ‘best practise’when it comes to their health care.

          4. Clampers Outside

            Who are you pushing your daft impression of who hates what on? Keira Bell, Mrs A, all the trans people celebrating this decision… Who?

            You’re a fool ffs.

      2. SOQ

        Do you approve of under 16’s gaining access to abortion services without their parent’s consent Daisy?

      3. Clampers Outside

        Certainly not the same thing.

        No one is being “prevented” from anything.

        What does come out of this is a focus on patient care and move away from the “affirmation” model which has no basis in medical practice, only an ideological basis.

        This is about improving care, not preventing it.

      4. Noblelocks

        Are you really that delusionally wed to this child medical experimentation ideology that you believe this is going to stop here? This is just the tip of the iceberg… There will be thousands of cases like this and the Tavistock et al are going to be destroyed in a hail of law suits.

        Now is the time to take a good long hard look at yourself on this subject. This is the start of common sense being victorious over a road to hell that was paved with good intentions, but it was a hell for these poor kids nonetheless. As the old saying goes: Choose wisely.

        1. Nigel

          I’s horrible to think the end goal of this is to push people who have transitioned into detransitioning and testifying about the horrors of transitioning in order to completely destroy trans people’s access to health care and make the ones who do manage to transition into pitiable freaks and horrors in the eyes of society.

          1. Noblelocks

            OMG you are utterly delusional!!

            How many more false accusations do you want to level at the world so that you can continue to hold on to your emotional investment in your position? What you have written above is an absolute disgrace and utterly false. Do you actually think people take your position seriously any more?

            You’re re-arranging the chairs on the Tatanic nige… your ship is going down.

            Disphorian children will be treated with the dignity and respect they deserve. They will be shown that there are many ways to treat their temporary issues without the appalingly permanent consequences of “transitioning”.

            You’ve made it clear you’re willing to sacrifice their lives to suit your ideological view, I think today they are making it clear that they don’t want to permanently damage themselves to sate your ideological wants anymore.

            And now, from here on in, their voice is going to get louder and louder and louder :D

          2. Nigel

            There’s definitely SOMEONE here who feels ther ideological views should determine the health care of young trans people.

          3. Clampers Outside

            He’s not commenting from an ideological position devolved of patient care as you clearly do, but a position – that the courts now recommend – of better care for patients.

          4. Nigel

            You and NL are celebrating because the court judgement is in accordance with your anti-trans ideology.

      5. deluded

        “ …
        In a 2015 survey of nearly 28,000 people conducted by the U.S.-based National Center for Transgender Equality, only 8 percent of respondents reported detransitioning, and 62 percent of those people said they only detransitioned temporarily. The most common reason for detransitioning, according to the survey, was pressure from a parent, while only 0.4 percent of respondents said they detransitioned after realizing transitioning wasn’t right for them.

        …”
        https://www.nbcnews.com/news/ncna1102686
        0.4% of transexuals is a smaller number than the last measles outbreak in West Cork
        I’m failing to see how this has gripped the nation.
        There seems to be some disparity in what is being reported.

        1. Junkface

          That was a study from 2015. I wonder what those numbers would be like in 2020 across multiple countries? This matters, it’s a fairly new development in society.

          1. Nigel

            There was an institute in Germany after WW1 that studied LGBTQ issues – medically, psychologically and socially. It built up a huge store of scientific learning and academic research, including groundbreaking studies about transexuality and sex reassignment. In 1933 the Nazis burned it all. Hitler denounced the degenrate lifestyle of trans people. Absolutely NONE of this is new.

          2. Nigel

            Yes I did. Thought you liked facts? This shows that it’s not that new of a development, neither the valid study of it as a subject nor the opposition.

        2. Clampers Outside

          It’s not like you to link to an article without properly looking at it Delusional…

          Here’s a few issues with article…

          They are quoting Asquith, from Mermaids, who have already been found to have lied about puberty blockers, insisting they are harmless. They also re-published studies that hid the negative issues of taking puberty blockers. They even went so far as to claim the opposite of the findings of studies, stating that PBs reduced suicidality in dysphoric children, where as the study showed no such thing and in fact showed some increases in suicidality (I linked to this before can’t find link right now)
          This “expert” nor the lobby group they represent, Mermaids, cannot be trusted.

          The Swedish study was conducted over 50 years and completed in 2010. This is prior to the issue of transitioning children.
          Additionally, there is no indication, from a quick scan of the original study linked in the article, that any children were put on puberty blockers and later went on to transition. In fact, the study appears to be based on those aged “30 years or older at time of application”.
          That means this study is not relevant to the discussion of transitioning children and may even indicate that successes are better with later transition.

          The article states a “misconception” about the age of those going forward for transition.
          This is not the case as the Keira Bell case discussed children as young as 10 being put forward for puberty blockers (PBs).

          The article discusses comments from a Dr Stephen Rosenthall who is quoted as saying there is “no role” for transission for pre-pubescent children. I wish this were applied in practice. Again, this is not true in the UK as the Keira Bell case showed with regard to 10 year olds.

          The article goes on to talk about the recommendation of PBs “once the child starts puberty” as if this were an approved and positive thing to do, which is exactly what the Keira Bell case shows not to be the case, but is actually tantamount to child “experimentation”.

          On the discussion of 18 year olds in the article, that section is not relevant to the transitioning of children being discussed here and is not something being contested in this discussion.

          In short, the article you have linked to is pointless in the discussion of transitioning kids and I haven’t even finished looking at it all in detail….

          I can finish later if you wish.

          1. deluded

            Oh I’d say you finished alright, no need to come back later thanks.
            Anyways, I’ll post a link if the URL looks good and if it references half a century of research then all the better. Do you have anything to say for the 99% that transition without regrets?
            I would agree the science may not be perfect.

          2. Clampers Outside

            Good on them! Thankfully they did so as informed adults not children which is what the discussion, and the case, is all about.
            But hey, you pretend that the link and the quote you provided is relevant, in the manner you suggest, to the discussion of transitioning children if that’s what floats your boat. The facts speak louder.

      1. Toby

        Another example of how the madness of Trans rights campaigning alienates more than it enlists. You all need to think about your communications. Because its not working. Unless, the whole point is to do an O Gorman on it and show how much you care. In that case, keep going.

      2. Clampers Outside

        You’re an ideological TRA idiot who couldn’t care a tuppeny damn about child protection nor proper patient care.

        You’re completely twisted in your denial of facts and your desire to use children as guinea pigs for big pharma… Despicable!

        1. Nigel

          ‘Guinea pigs for Big Pharma’ is a new libel, though it’s obviously been grafted from ant-vaxx rhetoric.

          1. Clampers Outside

            “Libel”… of an anonymous troll on the Internet!

            LOL! … the narcissism in that claim is through the roof :)

      3. Noblelocks

        And once again you describe the protection of children from the devastating consequences of the T cult as “health care”… to quote you: Omg you are just awful.

        Amazing victory for common sense, I’m absolutely delighted that we are beginning to see the fight back against these delusional people. The writing was on the wall for the monsters in the Tavistock since the BBC et al quietly pulled the plug on their support of these child medical experimentation facilities.

        Oh I forgot, you don’t like that phrase do you? Except that’s EXACTLY what Kiera herself said it was.

        This is not going to stop here, more cases are coming. Alannah Smith and Selene Soule are fighting hard in the US to remove the Male cheats from Female sports and after Trans Train was aired in Sweden, the court papers are being filed by the young people who’ve had their lives destroyed.

        I’m delighted.

          1. Noblelocks

            LoL you really haven’t got anything at all have you? All you can do is maliciously accuse people of hate. Like a whinging child screaming “I hate you!” you lash out at those who simply disagree with you with disgusting, false accusations. Standard TRA hate filled responses really and so old and see-through that they’re laughable.

            I’d address your arguments but you haven’t got any. Your position on this has been truely Pathetic since the start. Pathetic.

      4. Noblelocks

        Here you go:

        High Court: Bell V Tavistock

        “There is real uncertainty over the short and the long term consequences of the treatment with very liuttle evidence as to its efficacy…. This means it is, in our view, PROPERLY DESCRIBED AS EXPERIEMENTAL TREATMENT”

        Did you hear that Nige?
        Did you hear that Daisy?

        Dear lord how can you continue to support this disgusting Medical experimentation of children???

        1. Clampers Outside

          +1

          I’ll answer.

          They support it, because they’re ideologically bent on following emotional narratives they’re invested in, over facts.

          I could be wrong, but that’s what is indicated by the comments whenever this topic comes up.

          1. Noblelocks

            And that is EXACTLY why you are so wrong in all of this. You are conflating what Gays wanted and what Trans want and they are Absolutely NOT the same thing

            The Gay movement rightly asked for equality and to be able to live their lives as any person does.

            The Trans movement wants the right to be able to tell me that I must think the way they want me to and speak the way they want me to.

            They are NOT the same thing and you have been completely fooled by this deception.

            I will not censure my thoughts, I will not censure my speech. Fine me and I won’t pay it, jail me and I will go on hunger strike. No one will compell my thoughts or speech, no one.

          2. johnny

            straight enough.

            “Hi friends, I want to share with you that I am trans, my pronouns are he/they and my name is Elliot. I feel lucky to be writing this. To be here. To have arrived at this place in my life. I feel overwhelming gratitude for the incredible people who have supported me along this journey. I can’t begin to express how remarkable it feels to finally love who I am enough to pursue my authentic self. I’ve been endlessly inspired by so many in the trans community. Thank you for your courage, your generosity and ceaselessly working to make this world a more inclusive and compassionate place. I will offer whatever support I can and continue to strive for a more loving and equal society,”

            clear enough what they want.

            “I love that I am trans. And I love that I am queer. And the more I hold myself close and fully embrace who I am, the more I dream, the more my heart grows and the more I thrive. To all the trans people who deal with harassment, self-loathing, abuse, and the threat of violence every day: I see you, I love you, and I will do everything I can to change this world for the better,” Page continued.
            Page uses both he/him and they/them pronouns, and describes himself as transgender and non-binary, meaning that his gender identity is neither man nor woman.”

            why the confusion.

            https://variety.com/2020/film/news/elliot-page-transgender-ellen-page-juno-umbrella-academy-1234843023/

          3. Nigel

            ‘The Trans movement wants the right to be able to tell me that I must think the way they want me to and speak the way they want me to.’

            What trans people generally seem to want from others is roughly the opressive and thought-policing equivalent of saying ‘please’ and ‘thank you.’

        2. Junkface

          I would like to know what makes people so convinced that using these relatively new treatments on under developed teens is the right thing to do? Surely anything that effects kids bodies and mental health at such a crossroads age such be approached with a lot of caution.

          A few of my friends back home have children coming close to 12 and 13 years old, and they are very, very concerned that their kids could possibly want to begin on this journey just to fit in with their peers. So they want to understand everything, and be able to discuss it all without being called a terf or trans hater. They are not. They are actually compassionate on the trans and body dysmorphia subject.

          1. Nigel

            I suppose it depends on whether you believe international best practise or a handful of people being hysterical on the internet. You only have their word for it that the correct degree of caution is not being used. You only have their word for it that these things have not been discussed exhaustively instead of exploited loudly by people who are determined to run up a scare. No-one who throws around terms like ‘child experimentation’ ‘delusional people’ ‘male cheats in female sports’ is interested in compassion for trans people, and nobody who is triumphalist over a court result like this or for whom advocacy is synoymous with some sort of child-threatening ideology and for whom detransitioned people are the only valid spokespeople for trans people, is interested in an honest discussion of anything.

          2. Clampers Outside

            Here, get yourself some education on the case.

            All that is being pointed out as failures of care are the things that you advocating for. And yes, you ARE ‘advocating’ in your continued argument for patient care to remain in the ‘not fit for purpose’ state that was in, and your argument against the change needed.

            Here, please read – https://twitter.com/ebswa/status/1333736147734900742?s=19

          3. Clampers Outside

            Yes, I do. You attack every comment the supports improved are and you decry the loss of child experimentation, and then claim everyone is like the Nazis.

            It is right there, in these comments and every other comment thread on this topic.

            And it is plain as day.

          4. Nigel

            But your comments do not support improved care. Your comments support hostile gatekeeping of care. That is and always has been my argument. I’ve never called anyone a Nazi. However, you yourself have to provide different made-up versions of my comments in order to respond to them, as if you are working from a script but I’m not saying the things you want me to say. Ironic from someone who flies off the handle and has hissy fits about ‘assumptions’ and sentences that start ‘so what you’re saying is.’

  5. :-Joe

    derp bozo’s isn’t the worlds first fake ‘murican economy dollar trillionare for no reason…

    It’s great to know he’s looking out for all our interests and most of all his worker elves… or hi-s alves as he calls them in private…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY2znf8IVis
    #TheJimmyDoreShow bringing some x-mass-consumerism cheer and calling it out as always

    A pseudo entrpeneur, as real and honest a businessman as santa is as a magical delivery driver.

    Iamazombie is not any kind of business or service you should want to be using…

    Maybe don’t buy products from a corrupt corporate business that gets more corrupt and damaging to human rights and the environment the more you buy from and support it?…No?..

    Anyone even care about human rights and the environment anymore?…
    – Just mass consumerism and consumption is it, eh?..

    :-J

  6. :-Joe

    BS MOD.. Why delete my last post… Is it because of YT link or calling bezos a **** or ??

    Jimmy Dore show on YT has a video about the latest Imazombie AMAZON surveillance of workers and not just in ‘murica but also in Europe and apparently Iran too.. worth checking out..along with all his analysis and political comedy firing at all sides..

    Not a great business to be associating yourselves with no matter how much mass consumerism or consumption you want to get into..

    Human rights and the environment anyone?

    :-J

    1. :-Joe

      bozo’s isn’t the worlds first fake ‘murican economy dollar trillionare for no reason…

      t’s great to know he’s looking out for all our interests and most of all his worker elves… or hi-s alves has he most likely calls them in private…

      LINK – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY2znf8IVis

      Maybe buying from corrupt corporations is not such a great idea after all..

      :-J

      1. :-Joe

        Hi BS MOD

        Please delete all the spam extras… my bad, apologies to everyone.

        Post appeared published and then disappeared a couple of minutes later.
        – Thanks.

        :-J

        1. ReproBertie

          I’ve had that happen a couple of times :-Joe. More when I use my phone to post than a PC. I assumed it was a caching issue on the phone but maybe not.

          1. :-Joe

            Ye cheers, not sure why it happened but it was from a pc / fiber not a sim/4G/WiFi connection.

            I use security plugins like noscript.net, https everywhere, ublock origin, cookieautodelete, decentraleyes and others in firefox but normally it works fine..

            I think the first post calling Bezos a complete “scumbag”(I’m happy to keep repeating it) probably triggered a freeze then somehow they all flooded in at the same time… Maybe when the YT vid passed a check or something…?

            .. i.e. After Bodger was fully charged, rebooted, the robots replaced his(or her?) coffee filter head and realigned the BS space-station back into earth’s orbit over the Aran Islands…

            Sometimes people just have to throw up all over the comments… What can you do?.. I’m backing myself to do it again eventually…

            :-J

    2. Junkface

      Corporations virtue signalling about racism is another very tiresome development. Nike have really screwed up in Japan with this one : https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55140846

      Inflating an issue which is not comparable to what is going on in the USA with regards to racism issues in society. This is more woke agenda stuff from the very heights of corporations, a generation of students have passed through the US college system, graduated as woke/anti-racism disciples, and now they are enforcing over simplified arguments and badly researched facts about racism in their new jobs, in some of the biggest corporations on the planet. All must be assimilated.

      Corporations like Nike don’t actually give two s**ts about racism. They care about more money and their ongoing reliance on slave labour in Asia. Which they are in a legal fight about in US courts. How do they justify supporting slave labour?

  7. f_lawless

    For anyone looking to get a range of perspectives on the current vaccines in production, this article shared by Dr Michael Yeadon via his Twitter feed, articulates clearly what the safety concerns are.
    https://2020news.de/en/dr-wodarg-and-dr-yeadon-request-a-stop-of-all-corona-vaccination-studies-and-call-for-co-signing-the-petition/

    “On December 1, 2020, the ex-Pfizer head of respiratory research Dr. Michael Yeadon and the lung specialist and former head of the public health department Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg filed an application with the EMA, the European Medicine Agency responsible for EU-wide drug approval, for the immediate suspension of all SARS CoV 2 vaccine studies, in particular the BioNtech/Pfizer study on BNT162b (EudraCT number 2020-002641-42).

    Dr. Wodarg and Dr. Yeadon demand that the studies – for the protection of the life and health of the volunteers – should not be continued until a study design is available that is suitable to address the significant safety concerns expressed by an increasing number of renowned scientists against the vaccine and the study design…”

    1. Charger Salmons

      I’ve no doubt today’s vaccine approval in the UK marks the beginning of the end for this terrible saga and hopefully the EU can speed up their regulatory process so Ireland can start its mass vaccine programme this month too.
      It’s everyone’s right to choose whether to vaxx or not but medical opinion is overhwelmingly in favour of having one.
      I think it’s a remarkable achievement by scientists all over the world to come up with a wide variety of them so quickly.
      I’ll be beating my GP’s door down to get one because there’s a Caribbean beach sun lounger with my name on it waiting for me next Spring.

      1. Brother Barnabas

        “It’s everyone’s right to choose whether to vaxx or not

        for anyone who intends to actively participate in society, it’s a responsibility (unless there are medical reasons to not take it)

        1. f_lawless

          It’s entirely reasonable to choose not to be injected with any of the current batch of vaccines until the significant safety concerns, as outlined in the above article, are properly addressed. These are valid medical reasons to not take it.

        2. SOQ

          In what way do people have a responsibility to take a vaccine which does not prevent infection- nor prevent people from being infectious?

          1. Brother Barnabas

            do you not have access to YouTube ?

            there are hundreds of videos with graphics and everything- some of these videos are even being removed by THE MAN

            #TheTruthIsDangerous

          2. SOQ

            My point is there is no communitarian argument for taking this vaccine- you do it for yourself, no one else.

          3. ReproBertie

            But your point seems to be based on your understanding of the vaccine not preventing infection and not stopping those vaccinated from becoming infectious.

            I’m just trying to find out where you got this information.

            We know, for example, that the measles vaccine doesn’t prevent infection. Instead it stops the disease from developing, which is how these vaccines will work. You seem to suggest that this is not enough, even though Dr. Fauci and all his colleagues are happy with that outcome. What do you know that Dr. Fauci and his colleagues don’t and where did you get the information?

  8. goldenbrown

    hey :-Joe
    lol

    you’ve probably copped by now…I noticed myself a while back sometimes posts to this site very often aren’t always quickly populated into the conversation thread…can be very bumpy at times…often skew going on depending on what device you are coming in over….sometimes posts vanish as soon as you post them (too quick to be moderation) then show up 30 mins later…defo mechanical rather than “human” it seems

    I guess these are just the service facts when you are trying to run a non-commercial show (which is completely understandable)

    regarding the tone shift some here seem to be talking about, well I only know recent times so can’t be sure but maybe a forum like this is just a reflection of “us”?

    btw – I’ve been on a anti-(well known tropical rainforest) campaign in my own household for years, I quite enjoy the challenge of sourcing things outside it’s clutches. personally I have never bought a book online from them that I can recollect (always been Kenny’s for me, since the ’90’s believe it or not)

    1. :-Joe

      Ah, just noticed this post..thanks, it must be a “feature” of the BS system.
      – Not bad for the publicity tho, highlighting the corruption of bozo’s, the trillion fake-dollar ‘murican clown of fake-capitalism etc..

      I had a similar problem before a while back but forgot how confusing it is with the posts appearing then disappearing… You’ve explained it to the point of making sense, in my head anyway. I’m so used to updates on everything I just assumed they must have changed it or “improved” it with an upgrade..

      Ye fair play to you that’s impressive, I tried avoiding it for the last ten or so years but slipped a couple of times maybe about ten times.. but what can you do other than try. Mass drops / distributed bulk buying groups and 3D printing devices will eventually eat into all of them long before our useless non-political mandarins and lemons figure out a legal framework around anti-trust monoplies and tax fraud etc.

      I quickly read your message and thought you were in a rain forest. haha. I find that hilarious how people are so afraid to even mention the name of these colossal blights of toxic scum on humanity..

      Imazombie, gurgle, facederp / whatscrap and colossallyhard(to trust). The answer you’re looking for is GNU/Linux… but you’ll have to make a small effort to change habits from the bad diet you’ve been induced and addicted to. It’s a lot easier than people should already realise.

      Ye and I’d rather “steal” the content and send cash directly to the content creator anonymously tbh. it’s a total joke.. Decentralised Blockchain technology is making a lot of new options happen as we speak tho..
      – Not all the fake AI nonsense which is just another delusional farce of a long story to keep people confused while surveillance systems are being built around them..

      Use signal.org for your phone app and tell people your not using anything else or ditch your phone for a pc device.
      -Otherwise with gurgle and apple soon you can automatically kiss your human right / privelage of privacy a short goodbye.

      Do you hear that Mr 1T$(fake-dollar) jerk-off bozo’s, you alpha-prime-apex scumbag clown!…
      – Just play with the words and swear away to your hearts content… It’s very satisfying and you should avoid self-censorship and concision at your peril.

      :-J

  9. paul

    Reading about the abuse TUSLA workers get online, proper threatening and life-changing stuff, why don’t we have laws against it? Surely people posting up pictures of them and their families are identifiable in some way?

    And why attack TUSLA? Are the people posting this stuff angry that TUSLA have outed them as abusers?

    1. Cian

      Tusla workers have to make incredibly difficult decisions surrounding child protection. They need to balance various peoples rights (and responsibilities) to make these decisions. If they are investigating if a child is in danger they need to decide what to do. People can be angry on behalf of others too.

      I suppose that people get angry with Tusla if Tusla remove a child from someone’s care or refuse to give access to a child (be it parent, grandparent or other person). e.g. If my niece is taken from my sister’s care I might blame Tusla.

      Equally, I suppose that (different) people get angry with Tusla if Tusla DOESN’T remove a child from someone’s care. e.g. If I suspect my nephew is in danger but Tusla decide to leave him with his family I might blame Tusla..

      And then, possibly worst of all: if a case is appealed and overturned – I may be very angry with the Tusla staff member that made the first (wrong) decision.

    2. GiggidyGoo

      The McCabe debacle is probably one reason.
      The ‘Grace’ case could be another.

      Probably many reasons, but more than likely those in your last line.

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        Then you have the likes of Angela Ray whipping up hate towards Tusla among her fellow ratlickers like Dee Wall. Anti mask malcontents looking for somewhere to channel their anger at percieved wrongs.

  10. Charger Salmons

    Funnily enough I sat through this turgid rubbish once again on Sky the other night and I still don’t see how any amount of re-editing can save this turkey compared to the previous two Godfather movies.
    Apart from Sofia Coppola’s dreadful acting Al Pacino had by then moved well and truly into the shouty phase of his acting career and there was none of the malign,smouldering menace of the earlier Michael Corleone.
    Having said that I’ll still go and watch the re-edit if only for the glorious operatic ending and to remind myself how it looks on the big screen.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/0/godfather-coda-death-michael-corleone-review-coppola-fixes-greatest/

  11. Noblelocks

    @Nigel
    “I suppose it depends on whether you believe international best practise or a handful of people being hysterical on the internet.”
    Except that ‘s not true any more is it? Not one, not two, but Three high court judges just blew all of this “best practice” out of the water and there’s nothing but a greasy stain left.

    “You only have their word for it that the correct degree of caution is not being used. ”
    And visa versa – Irellivent

    “You only have their word for it that these things have not been discussed exhaustively instead of exploited loudly by people who are determined to run up a scare. ”
    A slur is not an argument Nigel – do try to keep up

    No-one who throws around terms like ‘child experimentation’.
    I called it child experiementation a few days ago and you called me all the monsters under the sun. Now the Judges have come out and said EXACTLY THE SAME THING and what do you do? You double down and insist that you’re right despite the facts. OMG you are awful…

    ‘delusional people’
    Yep

    ‘male cheats in female sports’
    They are Males and they are in female sports. We have a delination between them for a reason. Men are not women and they are CHEATING women out of their rightful prizes up to and including stealing womens scholarships or are you against female education as well ?

    “is interested in compassion for trans people”
    I suppose it’s the same compassion that was shown by the T “atheletes when they said that the women running against the should just “try harder”? Only a mysoginist would say such at thing. Only someone who hated women would say that

    and nobody who is triumphalist over a court result like this or for whom advocacy is synoymous with some sort of child-threatening ideology and for whom detransitioned people are the only valid spokespeople for trans people, is interested in an honest discussion of anything.

    As opposed to people who support the medical experimentation using children to further their wants…. I suppose they’re the people we should speak to are they?

    If you want an honest discussion you need to start from a postion of honesty yourself, otherwise you will only ever receive the respect you deserve…. None.

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