Come and get me lads
And ye’ll need more that the CSO
GiggidyGoo
But sure it’s ok – Billy Kelleher rears his head to wish Corkonians a Happy Christmas. Pay Rises? Sure that’s just another gentle kick in the teeth for the plebs, and the plebs children who are trainee nurses.
The photo? Sure Avril Doyle was using a photo that was 20 years old at the time of her last Dail election.
Perhaps
There was a pic of me here one-time
Barely six months old – direct screen shot off the telly
And the crass commentry
Ranging from false – that it wasn’t me at all, to touched up, to years old, to it being of me sneering at a certain someone yis broke yere necks running away from
None of it challenged
Which is fair enough
But it’s something I’ve never forgotten – particularly those behind the comments
And it always reminds me to never be afraid to be seen exactly as I am – give or take bad hair days
Or to let on I’m something I’m not
Oro
I must say it’s impressive how tenuous of a connection from the papers you’ve moulded into a two part comment segue so you can moan about a (maybe years) old story that still bothers you.
Maybe you have an old score to settle with your optician that you can reference from “I’ve put our pupils first” Metro headline.
Rob_G
Never underestimate Frilly’s uncanny ability to make any comment thread about thread all about them.
Bitnboxy
Don’t know about V but “GiggidyGoo” is s dyed in the wool social media Shinner so par for the course. Although the Shinners give me the willies and reek of the worst kind of hypocrisy, the Gooomeister is right to rage about the own goal pay rises. If the government are going to serve it up to the Shinners on a plate, then they only have themselves to blame. Goo’s performative ranting and raging warranted here.
Charger Salmons
‘ Never underestimate Frilly’s uncanny ability to make any comment thread about thread all about them. ‘
Surely not.
You mean like attention-seeking and lots of virtue-signalling ?
Well I never …
Papi
Still better than your lack-of-any virtue signalling, mysogonistic bigot.
Shur’ what’s it got to do with you O ‘ro
you’ve only just moved in (◔‿◔)
Don’t worry about it
Go and hang out with all the other New Arrivals, and get to know each other
Ye’ve loads in common
Loads
.
.
.
.
.
And c’mere Rob
Who do you think you’re codding
You vet every post here to make sure it’s not about you/ your lot
.
.
.
.
And while the threads most of ye regret and would rather forget, I know I bloody do
Resurface under ‘Popular Posts’ – some Broadsheet Reeling in the Years programme thing
Then either expect them to be mentioned
Or get Broadsheet to delete
Because I’ve tried and got nowhere
So why don’t ye give it a go
If yis want me to shur’ up – get the crap, the innuendos, the smearing, the fake names, the accusations,
All of it – even the scumbag and unfair comments in the Chat Pit
The Tweets etc
Gone
Or own up to it and own it, and take responsibility for it
But Ye can all have yere ***** if ye think I’m going to be the only one living with this constantly coming up in timelines.
It’s the internet – it’s always there
So get it deleted or own it permanently
@ Charage
I’m the very opposite of you
in every way
so what is everyday for me
and how I go about my day
may sting as Virtue Signalling to an intolerant bigoted racist like yourself
That’s fine
that’s your thing, at least you don’t pretend
And I respect that, and I do get a kick out of you here
Its the lads around here that pretend they aren’t intolerant bigoted racists, or that they support intolerant bigoted racists that I won’t let off easily, So if that takes what you call Virtue Signalling
Then that’s what it takes
True Colours folks – they never stay hidden for long
and no amount of user names can change that
Charger Salmons
Yawn.
You trot out the usual woke shopping list of racist,bigoted,sexist blah blah blah simply because you lack the depth and intelligence to have a rational conversation about difficult subjects without drifting into cliche.
It’s why you post in this ludicrous and juvenile Irish patois as though it somehow makes you look authentic.
It doesn’t.It makes you look sad.
Papi
Every single part of your comment is doubly applicable to you charger, and V is worth ten of you. Vile little man child.
you post in this ludicrous and juvenile Irish patois as though it somehow makes you look authentic.
from the lad who’s here all day at his own Dear oul Blightly, Home Counties Tally Hoo Boris, Release the Hounds
telephone voice
go bully and harass somewhere else
because that’s what that was Charage, you are so used to it, you don’t even know it
I’ve FAI accounts to go over, so gimme a break
Charger Salmons
So you call someone an intolerant bigoted racist and then complain of being bullied and harassed ?
At least you’re consistent in your hypocrisy but it doesn’t really chime with your calls for a kinder, gentler Broadsheet.
Practice what you preach.
Read the room, charger, your time is done.
Go away, troll.
GiggidyGoo
Ah the Britnboxy emerges from his sleeping bag, and goes straight into assumption mode. Apart from the satisfaction i get from living rent free in your head, the icing on the cake is the realization that you don’t have anything to offer in terms of intelligent conversation, and you need to let us know it day after day. Toddle along lad. LOL. Oh, and…..
Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice.
Bitnboxy
There, there. ;-p
GiggidyGoo
Ha haaaa. Point proven.
Bitnboxy
My point proven indeed! #wickleshinnerbaba
Lilly
And let’s not get started on The Irish Times byline photos. Laura Slattery has been in aspic for the past decade.
A solid piece of logic here regarding the new vaccine and the justification behind lockdowns
(retweeted by Mike Yeadon a former top scientist at Pfizer):
https://twitter.com/jengleruk/status/1335925357141176324
‘There are plenty of commentators saying there are “moral obligations” to be vaccinated to protect older people. We have calls for “bio passports”, “vaccination certificates” and so on.
Such demands rely on the vaccines reducing transmission.
But we don’t even know if they reduce infection, let alone transmission.
BUT, people might (reasonably) say: it’s a respiratory virus, it’s spread via droplet secretions which are generally correlated to symptoms.
In other words – it’s like every other respiratory virus in that regard.
So reduce symptoms and transmission will be reduced.
That sounds logical.
But it’s the opposite of what proponents of lockdown have been arguing.
The justification for lockdowns rests on asymptomatic transmission being a major contributory factor to the pandemic.
So let’s pretend they (and we) are right.
What will a vaccine which reduces symptoms do?
Won’t it shift people from being symptomatic to asymptomatic?
How will they then know to self-isolate?
Not by testing, they don’t even know if they need a test as they feel OK.
So which is it:
(1) a reduction in symptoms will assist managing the virus as most spread is associated with symptoms.
In which case: what was / is the point of lockdowns / restrictions over and above self-isolation of those with symptoms?
Or:
(2) a reduction in symptoms will not assist managing the virus, as asymptomatic spead is a major factor.
If so, as described above, whilst welcoming the extra protection afforded to the vulnerable, it’s illogical to view vaccines as a pre-requisite to get life back to normal.
The conclusion to this is that once vulnerable groups have (voluntarily) been vaccinated, all restrictions to society must end. This is essential to cease the enormous ongoing collateral public health and economic harms being done to society.
SOQ
Yes that is the contradiction- if SARS-CoV-2 follows the well worn path of symptomatic viral spread then all of these damaging and costly measures to prevent asymptomatic were unnecessary and wrong. And politicians do not like to admit they were wrong- especially a mistake of this magnitude.
But the communitarian sales pitch has already started- expect a glib slogan like ‘save granny’ or some such nonsense- except granny should have already had the jab and if the efficacy rates are to be believed, she will already be immune.
The one to watch is the uptake among front line workers because a lot of them will want to know if they have already been exposed- in which case, what is the point?
paul
The ‘save granny’ thing could apply to Grandmothers (and Grandfathers) who are further down the pecking order. I know my parents are Grandparents and are just outside some of the critical categories so it’ll be well into 2021 before they are ever approached. It will be a bit trite though, I agree with you there. I see a slogan like that applying more to the flu vaccine really as strains of flu are different every year and we’re always fighting to stay ahead of it.
Some people who caught the virus early, in March and April, have been recorded as being re-infected in later months so natural herd immunity wouldn’t be effective. Better to be jabbed just in case. I’m being considered a front-line worker where I work (direct contact with patients) and I do have a genuine and morbid curiosity to find out if I’ve been exposed despite exhaustive PPE usage. I’ll take the vaccine when it comes my way next year regardless. I’m keen to keep up the mask usage though, my secret behind-the-mask Murray Mint habit will be a tough one to break.
SOQ
The recorded number of people who have been re-infected is marginal and to be expected. It is very rare that everyone will build full immunity to a virus- even with a vaccine- because everyone’s immune systems are different.
But when you see a story like in the Sun today that they will be wearing masks to next year- you have to wonder what is really going on.
Patrick Vallance says “We don’t know yet how good all the vaccines are going to be at preventing the transmission of the virus.” but as 4 out of 5 have no symptoms and a vaccine should prevent the rest, why should it matter if SARS-CoV-2 is around or not?
ReproBertie
“if SARS-CoV-2 follows the well worn path of symptomatic viral spread then all of these damaging and costly measures to prevent asymptomatic were unnecessary and wrong”
We just don’t know for sure yet but the evidence to date points towards asymptomatic transmission.
In April of this year HIQA released a report that looked at the evidence from 32 different studies into asymptomatic transmission. They concluded that “it seems likely that pre-symptomatic transmission is occurring. Evidence of asymptomatic transmission from asymptomatic carriers, is more limited (perhaps due to difficulties in identifying truly asymptomatic carriers); it appears plausible, but it may not be a driver of transmission.”
A more recent study, using US Marine Recruits, found that, despite heavily enforced quarantine and other recommended health measures, asymptomatic transmission was taking place with six independent transmission clusters being identified.
SOQ
But that is the point- if asymptomatic do spread then these vaccines do nothing to prevent spread because all they do is supress symptoms?
In which case there is no communitarian value in them what so ever and throws this health passport nonsense out the window.
ReproBertie
“all they do is supress symptoms”
Really? I was under the impression that they prevented the disease from developing which, in turn, prevents the spread. Like the way the measles vaccine works.
As Dr Fauci said, taking the vaccine means I may get the virus but I’ll be a dead end for it instead of a stepping stone.
From everything that i have read so far it doesn’t claim to work like the measles vaccine. The measles vaccine both reduces symptoms and transmission (why we need a high number of vaccinated people but not 100%). The Covid vaccines has only been tested in regards to symptoms and the transmission reduction has either not been measured or not reported. If there is no reduction in transmission and or makes transmission harder to track then everyone will need to be vaccinated if the aim is to completely wipeout the effects of the virus. The other aim could be to reduce chances of hospital surges happening, in that case only a significant portion of high risk or vulnerable people need to be vaccinated e.g. vulnerable person contracts a live infection but is not hospitalised or in ICU (or if they are hospitalised there is less interventions and quicker recovery) if this person then transmits to another vulnerable person ditto that person is shielded from the worst effects. If a non vulnerable person contracts the virus and rides it out at home not putting any pressure on health system.
sorry that all came out a bit rambling
SOQ
Firstly anyone who has already been infected does not need a vaccine- they are already in the state that a vaccine would hopefully bring them to and- given that 80% of people have no symptoms whatsoever, what would be the point of vaccinating everyone if it does not prevent transmission?
But I do agree on vaccinating the high risk groups- which is what we do for the flu- and that is enough. There is no logical argument for wasting time and resources, not to mention the risk of something which has bypassed animal trials, on a virus with a 0.03 fatality rate.
ReproBertie
“if it does not prevent transmission? ”
We do not yet know if this is the case. And we do not know this because we lack the data.
“Do I believe that it reduces transmission? Absolutely yes, and I say this because of the science,” said Moderna Chief Medical Officer Tal Zaks while also saying “When we start the deployment of this vaccine, we will not have sufficient concrete data to prove that this vaccine reduces transmission.”
The Oxford/Astra vaccine has, in tests, reduced asymptomatic transmission by 27%. As the vaccine prevents the disease from developing there is no symptomatic transmission to measure.
The scientists, while hopeful based on the science, are not saying that transmission is prevented because they lack the data. The scienticians, on the other hand, are saying that transmission is not prevented because there is no data.
Cian
@SOQ: There is no logical argument for wasting time and resources, not to mention the risk of something which has bypassed animal trials, on a virus with a 0.03 fatality rate.
What do you mean by a “0.03 fatality rate”?
In Belgium 0.15% of the population has died with Covid in less than 10 months.
Of the total population, not just those that were infected, but of the total population.
In the USA 0.2% of New Jersey population (almost 9 million) have died with Covid in 10 months.
Nigel
3,000 dead a day for the last week in the US. But covid-denying Republican politicians who catch it get expensive world-class care and treatment, so they’re ok.
SOQ
The is no excess fatalities in the US Nigel- in fact they are doing quite well at the moment,
Nigel
God almighty.
Cian
@SOQ The is no excess fatalities in the US Nigel- in fact they are doing quite well at the moment,
Fake News
There have been excess deaths in the USA in every week since March 21th Total predicted number of excess deaths since 2/1/2020 across the United States: 275,049 – 381,896
look at the chart https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
Anti Bots
You are dead right Trump, sorry SOQ. Lets not introduce vaccines, lets not reduce drunk driving or unsafe sex, or swapping needles, because they only have tiny fatalities rates of the overall population of people who drive, have sex, swap needles. FFS.
This is meant as a reply to Bertie above, it wont let me add further replies to his reply/ post.
If the vaccine is eventually shown to reduce transmission, well that will be fantastic and further support the benefits of it being applied more broadly than just vulnerable people. If i saw a reliable appearing report saying that it does reduce transmission, i believe i would be more likely to be vaccinated. This will probably be the case, more data/ analysis and conclusions will be become available by the time they are looking for the least vulnerable category (with me in it) to get vaccinated.
Though with so many vaccines appearing there is specific concerns for particular ones. in my experience we don’t always get clear information informing us exactly which vaccine is being given at any one time and then asking for our “informed” consent (it always feels like we are only partially informed, with a bias to proceed with the vaccine being given). An example of this is the GSK vaccine which has the same Immunologic adjuvant as the problematic Pandemrix (swine flu vaccine), with the Immunologic adjuvant being a strong contender as the cause of the reactions and narcolepsy with that vaccine.
Charger Salmons
What’s that you say ?
Boris has become really unpopular because of the way he’s handled Covid and Brexit ?
He’ll be gone by next year, the BS knuckleheads opine.
Really ?
‘ Boris Johnson’s leadership ratings are up again. Leads Starmer by 11-points as “best PM” and on almost every measure of leadership … ‘
So The Irish Times has decided to go full Unionist today with no less than 4 pieces about the Shinners. Its hysterical to see a national paper deny the past of the country it uses in its own masthead. Watch Sinn Fein rise.
Paddy Cosgraves video is on the money,.
Cian
You mean like
[Sinn Fein] is no more a conventional political party than was Lenin’s. Its elected members – including Mary Lou McDonald and Michelle O’Neill – are largely the glove-puppets of an unelected politburo centred on Belfast. Search your brain to remember the selection process for Michelle O’Neill.
Why did the unelected Bobby Storey merit a massive regulation-busting public funeral in Belfast? Because he was a leading member of that unelected politburo. It wasn’t because of his massive involvement in criminality before and after the Good Friday Agreement or his frequent attendance at Leinster House in later years.
In chess, always choose to be the white pieces when you can.
It gives you a dominant position and control of the board.
But sometimes it’s not always good to be the first.
Second move advantage is often a good strategy in certain circumstances.
After all, it’s the second mouse that gets to eat the cheese.
millie bobby brownie
If the Papers comment section had a specific sound, I reckon it would sound like a bunch of cats conducting a Battle Royale.
How on earth did you find that? What shenanigans does your cat get up to?
Charger Salmons
So the EU and UK have agreed a trusted trader scheme that would mean exemptions from tariffs for up to 98pc of goods flowing between Great Britain and Northern Ireland from January 1.
The other 2% would potentially avail of rebates from any tariffs.
It seems like only yesterday that prominent people in the Irish government were scoffing at the idea that a trusted trader scheme could possibly be used to prevent a hard border in Ireland.
Needs must.
Heh x 17.4million
Cian
Under the new scheme, importers deemed trusted traders will be able to skip the procedure, with goods expected to carry a label stating they are for sale only in Northern Ireland.
There are 22 days for this scheme to be set up, all the importers to register, and be approved.
There are 22 days for all goods to be labelled “for sale in NI” – I wonder is a sticker sufficient? because a sticker could be removed… should it not be printed.
22 days.
Charger Salmons
A bit tight but with goodwill and co-operation on both sides ( something which has been clearly lacking on border talks previously ) there’s no reason why it can’t be done.
Remember, trusted trader schemes were branded pie in the sky when Varadkar was dancing to Druncker’s tune.
Nigel
And there would be a border in the Irish Sea over Johnson’s dead body. C’est la vie, as the DUP like to sing.
Papi
Perhaps they can print up a label for delivering chargers bottom to him, yet again.
Heh heh heh.
Charger Salmons
I must admit I’m quite enjoying the goings-on at Woke News with Sky’s Kay Burley and Beff Rigby hauled off-air along with a couple of other drones for breaking Covid-19 restrictions for Burley’s 60th piss-up.
The named two in particular have spent months hectoring politicians and Dominic Cummings about the rules.
This is better entertainment than any Christmas panto.
Are Aliens a higher authority than the US Supreme Court?
They’re right up there with the psycho seagulls.. mind, the seagulls like to take your ice cream whereas those aliens like a bit probing. Apparently.
Ah here Billy
That photo must be 10 years old
If I did that I’d never hear the end of it
Anyways
‘Yesterday’ I posted about Apartheid
Them and Us etc here https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/12/08/picture-this-3/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=web&utm_content=popular_posts
Shameless Woulfe just got a 4k payrise
Come and get me lads
And ye’ll need more that the CSO
But sure it’s ok – Billy Kelleher rears his head to wish Corkonians a Happy Christmas. Pay Rises? Sure that’s just another gentle kick in the teeth for the plebs, and the plebs children who are trainee nurses.
The photo? Sure Avril Doyle was using a photo that was 20 years old at the time of her last Dail election.
Perhaps
There was a pic of me here one-time
Barely six months old – direct screen shot off the telly
And the crass commentry
Ranging from false – that it wasn’t me at all, to touched up, to years old, to it being of me sneering at a certain someone yis broke yere necks running away from
None of it challenged
Which is fair enough
But it’s something I’ve never forgotten – particularly those behind the comments
And it always reminds me to never be afraid to be seen exactly as I am – give or take bad hair days
Or to let on I’m something I’m not
I must say it’s impressive how tenuous of a connection from the papers you’ve moulded into a two part comment segue so you can moan about a (maybe years) old story that still bothers you.
Maybe you have an old score to settle with your optician that you can reference from “I’ve put our pupils first” Metro headline.
Never underestimate Frilly’s uncanny ability to make any comment thread about thread all about them.
Don’t know about V but “GiggidyGoo” is s dyed in the wool social media Shinner so par for the course. Although the Shinners give me the willies and reek of the worst kind of hypocrisy, the Gooomeister is right to rage about the own goal pay rises. If the government are going to serve it up to the Shinners on a plate, then they only have themselves to blame. Goo’s performative ranting and raging warranted here.
‘ Never underestimate Frilly’s uncanny ability to make any comment thread about thread all about them. ‘
Surely not.
You mean like attention-seeking and lots of virtue-signalling ?
Well I never …
Still better than your lack-of-any virtue signalling, mysogonistic bigot.
Shur’ what’s it got to do with you O ‘ro
you’ve only just moved in (◔‿◔)
Don’t worry about it
Go and hang out with all the other New Arrivals, and get to know each other
Ye’ve loads in common
Loads
.
.
.
.
.
And c’mere Rob
Who do you think you’re codding
You vet every post here to make sure it’s not about you/ your lot
.
.
.
.
And while the threads most of ye regret and would rather forget, I know I bloody do
Resurface under ‘Popular Posts’ – some Broadsheet Reeling in the Years programme thing
Then either expect them to be mentioned
Or get Broadsheet to delete
Because I’ve tried and got nowhere
So why don’t ye give it a go
If yis want me to shur’ up – get the crap, the innuendos, the smearing, the fake names, the accusations,
All of it – even the scumbag and unfair comments in the Chat Pit
The Tweets etc
Gone
Or own up to it and own it, and take responsibility for it
But Ye can all have yere ***** if ye think I’m going to be the only one living with this constantly coming up in timelines.
It’s the internet – it’s always there
So get it deleted or own it permanently
Fine Gael aren’t getting much return on investment judging by the standard of boys that have been sent out to bat for them here. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-research-candidates-asked-how-to-attack-sinn-fein-39736985.html
ha haaaaaa.
@ Charage
I’m the very opposite of you
in every way
so what is everyday for me
and how I go about my day
may sting as Virtue Signalling to an intolerant bigoted racist like yourself
That’s fine
that’s your thing, at least you don’t pretend
And I respect that, and I do get a kick out of you here
Its the lads around here that pretend they aren’t intolerant bigoted racists, or that they support intolerant bigoted racists that I won’t let off easily, So if that takes what you call Virtue Signalling
Then that’s what it takes
True Colours folks – they never stay hidden for long
and no amount of user names can change that
Yawn.
You trot out the usual woke shopping list of racist,bigoted,sexist blah blah blah simply because you lack the depth and intelligence to have a rational conversation about difficult subjects without drifting into cliche.
It’s why you post in this ludicrous and juvenile Irish patois as though it somehow makes you look authentic.
It doesn’t.It makes you look sad.
Every single part of your comment is doubly applicable to you charger, and V is worth ten of you. Vile little man child.
I whole heartedly agree Papi.
+V
you post in this ludicrous and juvenile Irish patois as though it somehow makes you look authentic.
from the lad who’s here all day at his own Dear oul Blightly, Home Counties Tally Hoo Boris, Release the Hounds
telephone voice
go bully and harass somewhere else
because that’s what that was Charage, you are so used to it, you don’t even know it
I’ve FAI accounts to go over, so gimme a break
So you call someone an intolerant bigoted racist and then complain of being bullied and harassed ?
At least you’re consistent in your hypocrisy but it doesn’t really chime with your calls for a kinder, gentler Broadsheet.
Practice what you preach.
You first Charage
Read the room, charger, your time is done.
Go away, troll.
Ah the Britnboxy emerges from his sleeping bag, and goes straight into assumption mode. Apart from the satisfaction i get from living rent free in your head, the icing on the cake is the realization that you don’t have anything to offer in terms of intelligent conversation, and you need to let us know it day after day. Toddle along lad. LOL. Oh, and…..
Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice.
There, there. ;-p
Ha haaaa. Point proven.
My point proven indeed! #wickleshinnerbaba
And let’s not get started on The Irish Times byline photos. Laura Slattery has been in aspic for the past decade.
can you post a link to the ass pic in question?
Here’s my favorite egg and ham in aspic recipe, soooooo good
https://cnz.to/ingredients-fine-foods/egg-in-aspic/
soz wrong link..https://www.marions-kochbuch.com/recipe/6536.htm
…years ago my party piece starter used to be jambon persillee…must try it this weekend…
yum ! I used to love being able to grab one of these for lunch, does anyone know if the eggs in Ireland are pasteurised ?
Irish eggs are way ahead Janet. Sure the hens even barcode them while laying them.
lol,
…ask V about butter eggs…a Cork speciality…
A solid piece of logic here regarding the new vaccine and the justification behind lockdowns
(retweeted by Mike Yeadon a former top scientist at Pfizer):
https://twitter.com/jengleruk/status/1335925357141176324
‘There are plenty of commentators saying there are “moral obligations” to be vaccinated to protect older people. We have calls for “bio passports”, “vaccination certificates” and so on.
Such demands rely on the vaccines reducing transmission.
But we don’t even know if they reduce infection, let alone transmission.
BUT, people might (reasonably) say: it’s a respiratory virus, it’s spread via droplet secretions which are generally correlated to symptoms.
In other words – it’s like every other respiratory virus in that regard.
So reduce symptoms and transmission will be reduced.
That sounds logical.
But it’s the opposite of what proponents of lockdown have been arguing.
The justification for lockdowns rests on asymptomatic transmission being a major contributory factor to the pandemic.
So let’s pretend they (and we) are right.
What will a vaccine which reduces symptoms do?
Won’t it shift people from being symptomatic to asymptomatic?
How will they then know to self-isolate?
Not by testing, they don’t even know if they need a test as they feel OK.
So which is it:
(1) a reduction in symptoms will assist managing the virus as most spread is associated with symptoms.
In which case: what was / is the point of lockdowns / restrictions over and above self-isolation of those with symptoms?
Or:
(2) a reduction in symptoms will not assist managing the virus, as asymptomatic spead is a major factor.
If so, as described above, whilst welcoming the extra protection afforded to the vulnerable, it’s illogical to view vaccines as a pre-requisite to get life back to normal.
The conclusion to this is that once vulnerable groups have (voluntarily) been vaccinated, all restrictions to society must end. This is essential to cease the enormous ongoing collateral public health and economic harms being done to society.
Yes that is the contradiction- if SARS-CoV-2 follows the well worn path of symptomatic viral spread then all of these damaging and costly measures to prevent asymptomatic were unnecessary and wrong. And politicians do not like to admit they were wrong- especially a mistake of this magnitude.
But the communitarian sales pitch has already started- expect a glib slogan like ‘save granny’ or some such nonsense- except granny should have already had the jab and if the efficacy rates are to be believed, she will already be immune.
The one to watch is the uptake among front line workers because a lot of them will want to know if they have already been exposed- in which case, what is the point?
The ‘save granny’ thing could apply to Grandmothers (and Grandfathers) who are further down the pecking order. I know my parents are Grandparents and are just outside some of the critical categories so it’ll be well into 2021 before they are ever approached. It will be a bit trite though, I agree with you there. I see a slogan like that applying more to the flu vaccine really as strains of flu are different every year and we’re always fighting to stay ahead of it.
Some people who caught the virus early, in March and April, have been recorded as being re-infected in later months so natural herd immunity wouldn’t be effective. Better to be jabbed just in case. I’m being considered a front-line worker where I work (direct contact with patients) and I do have a genuine and morbid curiosity to find out if I’ve been exposed despite exhaustive PPE usage. I’ll take the vaccine when it comes my way next year regardless. I’m keen to keep up the mask usage though, my secret behind-the-mask Murray Mint habit will be a tough one to break.
The recorded number of people who have been re-infected is marginal and to be expected. It is very rare that everyone will build full immunity to a virus- even with a vaccine- because everyone’s immune systems are different.
But when you see a story like in the Sun today that they will be wearing masks to next year- you have to wonder what is really going on.
Patrick Vallance says “We don’t know yet how good all the vaccines are going to be at preventing the transmission of the virus.” but as 4 out of 5 have no symptoms and a vaccine should prevent the rest, why should it matter if SARS-CoV-2 is around or not?
“if SARS-CoV-2 follows the well worn path of symptomatic viral spread then all of these damaging and costly measures to prevent asymptomatic were unnecessary and wrong”
We just don’t know for sure yet but the evidence to date points towards asymptomatic transmission.
In April of this year HIQA released a report that looked at the evidence from 32 different studies into asymptomatic transmission. They concluded that “it seems likely that pre-symptomatic transmission is occurring. Evidence of asymptomatic transmission from asymptomatic carriers, is more limited (perhaps due to difficulties in identifying truly asymptomatic carriers); it appears plausible, but it may not be a driver of transmission.”
A more recent study, using US Marine Recruits, found that, despite heavily enforced quarantine and other recommended health measures, asymptomatic transmission was taking place with six independent transmission clusters being identified.
But that is the point- if asymptomatic do spread then these vaccines do nothing to prevent spread because all they do is supress symptoms?
In which case there is no communitarian value in them what so ever and throws this health passport nonsense out the window.
“all they do is supress symptoms”
Really? I was under the impression that they prevented the disease from developing which, in turn, prevents the spread. Like the way the measles vaccine works.
As Dr Fauci said, taking the vaccine means I may get the virus but I’ll be a dead end for it instead of a stepping stone.
From everything that i have read so far it doesn’t claim to work like the measles vaccine. The measles vaccine both reduces symptoms and transmission (why we need a high number of vaccinated people but not 100%). The Covid vaccines has only been tested in regards to symptoms and the transmission reduction has either not been measured or not reported. If there is no reduction in transmission and or makes transmission harder to track then everyone will need to be vaccinated if the aim is to completely wipeout the effects of the virus. The other aim could be to reduce chances of hospital surges happening, in that case only a significant portion of high risk or vulnerable people need to be vaccinated e.g. vulnerable person contracts a live infection but is not hospitalised or in ICU (or if they are hospitalised there is less interventions and quicker recovery) if this person then transmits to another vulnerable person ditto that person is shielded from the worst effects. If a non vulnerable person contracts the virus and rides it out at home not putting any pressure on health system.
sorry that all came out a bit rambling
Firstly anyone who has already been infected does not need a vaccine- they are already in the state that a vaccine would hopefully bring them to and- given that 80% of people have no symptoms whatsoever, what would be the point of vaccinating everyone if it does not prevent transmission?
But I do agree on vaccinating the high risk groups- which is what we do for the flu- and that is enough. There is no logical argument for wasting time and resources, not to mention the risk of something which has bypassed animal trials, on a virus with a 0.03 fatality rate.
“if it does not prevent transmission? ”
We do not yet know if this is the case. And we do not know this because we lack the data.
“Do I believe that it reduces transmission? Absolutely yes, and I say this because of the science,” said Moderna Chief Medical Officer Tal Zaks while also saying “When we start the deployment of this vaccine, we will not have sufficient concrete data to prove that this vaccine reduces transmission.”
The Oxford/Astra vaccine has, in tests, reduced asymptomatic transmission by 27%. As the vaccine prevents the disease from developing there is no symptomatic transmission to measure.
The scientists, while hopeful based on the science, are not saying that transmission is prevented because they lack the data. The scienticians, on the other hand, are saying that transmission is not prevented because there is no data.
@SOQ:
There is no logical argument for wasting time and resources, not to mention the risk of something which has bypassed animal trials, on a virus with a 0.03 fatality rate.
What do you mean by a “0.03 fatality rate”?
In Belgium 0.15% of the population has died with Covid in less than 10 months.
Of the total population, not just those that were infected, but of the total population.
In the USA 0.2% of New Jersey population (almost 9 million) have died with Covid in 10 months.
3,000 dead a day for the last week in the US. But covid-denying Republican politicians who catch it get expensive world-class care and treatment, so they’re ok.
The is no excess fatalities in the US Nigel- in fact they are doing quite well at the moment,
God almighty.
@SOQ
The is no excess fatalities in the US Nigel- in fact they are doing quite well at the moment,
Fake News
There have been excess deaths in the USA in every week since March 21th
Total predicted number of excess deaths since 2/1/2020 across the United States: 275,049 – 381,896
look at the chart
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
You are dead right Trump, sorry SOQ. Lets not introduce vaccines, lets not reduce drunk driving or unsafe sex, or swapping needles, because they only have tiny fatalities rates of the overall population of people who drive, have sex, swap needles. FFS.
This is meant as a reply to Bertie above, it wont let me add further replies to his reply/ post.
If the vaccine is eventually shown to reduce transmission, well that will be fantastic and further support the benefits of it being applied more broadly than just vulnerable people. If i saw a reliable appearing report saying that it does reduce transmission, i believe i would be more likely to be vaccinated. This will probably be the case, more data/ analysis and conclusions will be become available by the time they are looking for the least vulnerable category (with me in it) to get vaccinated.
Though with so many vaccines appearing there is specific concerns for particular ones. in my experience we don’t always get clear information informing us exactly which vaccine is being given at any one time and then asking for our “informed” consent (it always feels like we are only partially informed, with a bias to proceed with the vaccine being given). An example of this is the GSK vaccine which has the same Immunologic adjuvant as the problematic Pandemrix (swine flu vaccine), with the Immunologic adjuvant being a strong contender as the cause of the reactions and narcolepsy with that vaccine.
What’s that you say ?
Boris has become really unpopular because of the way he’s handled Covid and Brexit ?
He’ll be gone by next year, the BS knuckleheads opine.
Really ?
‘ Boris Johnson’s leadership ratings are up again. Leads Starmer by 11-points as “best PM” and on almost every measure of leadership … ‘
https://mobile.twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1336425850103848964
Mehole and Leo would sell their grannies for ratings like that.
Boris is box office particularly after yesterday’s triumphant V-Day.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55236852
i notice you’re keeping schtum about this one, chargerblack.
So The Irish Times has decided to go full Unionist today with no less than 4 pieces about the Shinners. Its hysterical to see a national paper deny the past of the country it uses in its own masthead. Watch Sinn Fein rise.
Paddy Cosgraves video is on the money,.
You mean like
[Sinn Fein] is no more a conventional political party than was Lenin’s. Its elected members – including Mary Lou McDonald and Michelle O’Neill – are largely the glove-puppets of an unelected politburo centred on Belfast. Search your brain to remember the selection process for Michelle O’Neill.
Why did the unelected Bobby Storey merit a massive regulation-busting public funeral in Belfast? Because he was a leading member of that unelected politburo. It wasn’t because of his massive involvement in criminality before and after the Good Friday Agreement or his frequent attendance at Leinster House in later years.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/public-being-kept-in-the-dark-about-the-true-nature-of-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.4430965
In chess, always choose to be the white pieces when you can.
It gives you a dominant position and control of the board.
But sometimes it’s not always good to be the first.
Second move advantage is often a good strategy in certain circumstances.
After all, it’s the second mouse that gets to eat the cheese.
If the Papers comment section had a specific sound, I reckon it would sound like a bunch of cats conducting a Battle Royale.
This is actually quite nice of its own right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk__iTDn9E0
How on earth did you find that? What shenanigans does your cat get up to?
So the EU and UK have agreed a trusted trader scheme that would mean exemptions from tariffs for up to 98pc of goods flowing between Great Britain and Northern Ireland from January 1.
The other 2% would potentially avail of rebates from any tariffs.
It seems like only yesterday that prominent people in the Irish government were scoffing at the idea that a trusted trader scheme could possibly be used to prevent a hard border in Ireland.
Needs must.
Heh x 17.4million
Under the new scheme, importers deemed trusted traders will be able to skip the procedure, with goods expected to carry a label stating they are for sale only in Northern Ireland.
There are 22 days for this scheme to be set up, all the importers to register, and be approved.
There are 22 days for all goods to be labelled “for sale in NI” – I wonder is a sticker sufficient? because a sticker could be removed… should it not be printed.
22 days.
A bit tight but with goodwill and co-operation on both sides ( something which has been clearly lacking on border talks previously ) there’s no reason why it can’t be done.
Remember, trusted trader schemes were branded pie in the sky when Varadkar was dancing to Druncker’s tune.
And there would be a border in the Irish Sea over Johnson’s dead body. C’est la vie, as the DUP like to sing.
Perhaps they can print up a label for delivering chargers bottom to him, yet again.
Heh heh heh.
I must admit I’m quite enjoying the goings-on at Woke News with Sky’s Kay Burley and Beff Rigby hauled off-air along with a couple of other drones for breaking Covid-19 restrictions for Burley’s 60th piss-up.
The named two in particular have spent months hectoring politicians and Dominic Cummings about the rules.
This is better entertainment than any Christmas panto.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13425378/beth-rigby-axed-sky/?utm_campaign=sunmaintwitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1607511577