122 thoughts on “Friday’s Papers

  1. ce

    Nice to see the UK papers paying so much attention to the US and avoiding the second day of +1000 UK covid deaths, maybe they just got bored

    Reply
    1. Charger Salmons

      Charger’s Vax Fact #9

      Boom.
      Moderna vaccine approved for use in the UK adding to the Pfizer and AstraZeneca jabs already given the go-ahead.
      Blighty has ordered 17million doses.
      One thousand vaccination centres now up and running.

      Reply
      1. ReproBertie

        Just 2 days after the EU approved it.

        Ireland has pre-ordered 875,000 doses of the Moderna vaccine and it was announced today that we will be getting an additional 3.3 million doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine on top of that already ordered.

        Reply
        1. Charger Salmons

          But when ?
          Oh sorry I forgot – patsies like you think it’s frightfully impudent that the EU should be held to account ..

          Reply
          1. ReproBertie

            Well these extra doses will be delivered in Q2 2021 but the initial doses ordered will be delivered by then so we should see the vaccination numbers climbing in the next few weeks.

            Did you find those examples where the media in the other 26 EU states “rage against the slow delivery of vaccines and incomopetent acquisition of them by the EU.”?

            You never were much good at backing up your claims.

  2. Kate

    I think Mr Biden and Ms Pelosi should not incite further division and riots by calling for Mr Trump to be locked up or removed from office. Calm down for God’s sake — it’s already inflammatory situation , ye old goats.

    Reply
          1. Haroo

            What a novel idea! Do nothing. I will agree with Trump on one thing, those people were “special” but not in the way he meant.

            One way or another a precedent is about to be set. A president inciting mob justice is ok or that a president can be removed from office for inciting mobs to march on another branch of govt and his unwillingness to stop it was negligent.

            @Charger… Bojo seemed to think Trump was clearly irresponsible and went boot licking to Biden. Full of condemnation and scorn for Trump. So is Bojo following the crowd? Is this Bojo summoning his inner Churchill and kowtowing to any American president in office?

    1. Junkface

      Before they stormed the Capitol I would have agreed, but after it and the Capitol Police leadership’s absolute failure to plan and organise officers, I think no. You must make an example of Trumps awful behaviour and incitement of violence. He got 5 people killed now.
      Impeach him, kick him out of the White House for the rest of his term. Law enforcement leaders should now be able to insure that the full kitted out military police force are ready and waiting for any more Trump cultist attempts at attacking the Capitol, or the inauguration. (Like they were seen ready for Antifa/BLM during the summer, 100’s of armed cops in combat gear)

      Reply
      1. Kate

        19 were killed in BLM protests. And Trump got no one “killed” – 3 allegedly died of underlying medical conditions, one woman got shot by police, the police officer returned to duty but died suddenly the following day.

        Reply
        1. Charger Salmons

          Indeed.
          The unfortunate officer’s union said he suffered a stroke after returning to his office.
          Hardly ‘ killed ‘ by Trump.

          Reply
          1. Rosette of Sirius

            He suffered a stroke after a fire extinguisher was bounced off his head. Fire extinguishers don’t just bounce off people’s heads all by themselves.

            I’m guessing you know that too, but decided to omit that critical piece of context. Because, you know, it’s you.

          2. Charger Salmons

            Actually according to the New York Times there’s confusion over the fire extinguisher with some reports suggesting he was sprayed with the contents of it rather than being hit with it.
            He received no treatment at the scene and returned to his division office perfectly okay.
            You, on the other hand, are simply gullible.

          3. Rosette of Sirius

            Your dishonesty remains glaring for all to see. The NYT article makes specific reference to him being struck by a fire extinguisher.

          4. Charger Salmons

            According to the New York Times ‘ The circumstances surrounding Mr. Sicknick’s death were not immediately clear ‘.
            Some reports say he was hit with a fire extinguisher although responsible news outlets are reporting these claims in parenthesis.
            Others report that he was merely ‘ physically engaging with protestors ‘.
            He received no treatment at the scene and was able to return to his division office.
            Park your gullibility to one side and wait for the official cause of death before making an idiot of yourself with claims that Trump killed a police officer.

          5. Rosette of Sirius

            Firstly, you dolt, I never said Trump killed him…

            Secondly, Here’s what you’re clearly leaving out from said NYT article.

            – “The circumstances surrounding Mr. Sicknick’s death were not immediately clear, and the Capitol Police said only that he had “passed away due to injuries sustained while on duty.”

            At some point in the chaos — with the mob rampaging through the halls of Congress while lawmakers were forced to hide under their desks — he was struck with a fire extinguisher, according to two law enforcement officials.

            “He returned to his division office and collapsed,” the Capitol Police said in the statement. “He was taken to a local hospital, where he succumbed to his injuries.” –
            You’re a funny chap in fairness. You leap to conclusion for all sort of rubbish on a daily basis with one breath, asks for restrain in comment by way of an official report of death in another.

            Well sunshine, an official murder probe has been launched by Federal Prosecutors and once again, you continue to present yourself as the the dishonest and delinquent persona that you are on BS,

        2. Haroo

          What has BLM got to do with Trump inciting riots?

          Clearly you consider them equivalent, so you do think the MAGA/Qanon crowd at the Capitol building was a riot. It is hard to deny Trump incited this mob having called for them to march down Pennsylvania Ave ergo Trump incited a riot and did little to temper their actions at the time. Where was the barrage of tweets in all caps calling on the rioters to disperse???

          Ergo you believe that this is acceptable behaviour from a sitting president and nothing should be done, for fear of inflaming the red hats, and instead a precedent should be established condoning this behaviour. Sounds weak and full of fear to me.

          Reply
          1. Charger Salmons

            According to the New York Times ‘ The circumstances surrounding Mr. Sicknick’s death were not immediately clear ‘.
            Some reports say he was hit with a fire extinguisher although responsible news outlets are reporting these claims in parenthesis.
            Others report that he was merely ‘ physically engaging with protestors ‘.
            He received no treatment at the scene and was able to return to his division office.
            Park your gullibility to one side and wait for the official cause of death before making an idiot of yourself with claims that Trump killed a police officer.

  3. f_lawless

    This is gas. The “Wolf Man”, now roaming freely outside – having earlier broken into congress – is approached and asked
    “How did you get out?”
    “Of the Senate? The cops walked out with me”
    “They just let you go?”
    “Yeah”
    “What would you to say to all the people who would doubt you could just walk in there and come back out?”
    “Well a lot of people doubted a lot of prophets, saints and sages. People doubted Christ, you know. So all I can say to those people is haters can hate. I don’t give a sh*t!”.

    https://twitter.com/JiMnM_/status/1346943234212298756

    My take is yer man is just a “useful idiot” and the whole thing was let happen for propaganda purposes. A decision was made to put in place a completely inadequate level of security. Then come the headlines:
    “Insurrection! US democracy is under attack”. Cue more curtailments on civil liberties, internet censorship etc

    As Glen Greewald put it yesterday:
    “How have hundreds of billions upon hundreds of billions of dollars been spent in the name of security since 9/11, along with the deployment of drones and surveillance tech, yet a few hundred protestors can so easily breach the Capitol, just waltzing in and taking it over?”

    Reply
    1. ReproBertie

      Of course it was a conspiracy! Even when it was just the Captiol police being unprepared and disorganised in their response I knew it was a conspiracy.

      Would love to hear Glen Greenwald’s thoughts on how drones and surveillance tech can be used to push people back from barriers.

      Reply
    2. scottser

      it’s not really a consipiracy lad. deployment of the national guard can only be done by the president or secretary of defence with the approval of the state governor. trump refused to send them is all.

      Reply
    3. millie bobby brownie

      A useful idiot? You’re joking. Just like Richard Barnett, pictured in Nancy Pelosi’s office, ended up in there by accident.

      “I didn’t break the doors. I was shoved in. I didn’t mean to be in there. Hell, I was looking for the bathroom,” he said.

      Funny though, that twitter account you posted is fully invested in Trump’s ‘fraud’ claims, which are widely acknowledged to be baseless and totally false.

      Reply
    4. millie bobby brownie

      Your ‘hot take’, by the way f_lawless, sounds eerily like that of Tucker Carlson, a well-known conservative foghorn.

      The Trump protests at the Capitol yesterday is already being used as a pretext for an unprecedented crackdown on civil liberties. Just in the last several hours we have heard people in positions of power and authority demand that those who support Donald Trump should no longer be allowed to publish books or use the internet or fly on airplanes.

      Reply
      1. f_lawless

        I wasn’t aware of Tucker Carlon’s take, but what are you implying – that if an opinion comes from someone you don’t like then that opinion should automatically be deemed invalid? When Carlon was the sole voice on US MSM warning Trump not to further escalate the situation in Venezuela and get the US mired in another regime change war – and all the while establishment Democrats were amplifying the mantra “Maduro” must go” – that anti-war stance was invalid because he’s a conservative foghorn?

        This is a fair piece by Glen Greenwald who’s certainly not a conservative foghorn as you put it.
        https://greenwald.substack.com/p/violence-in-the-capitol-dangers-in-67f

        “It is stunning to watch now as every War on Terror rhetorical tactic to justify civil liberties erosions is now being invoked in the name of combatting Trumpism, including the aggressive exploitation of the emotions triggered by yesterday’s events at the Capitol to accelerate their implementation and demonize dissent over the quickly formed consensus. The same framework used to assault civil liberties in the name of foreign terrorism is now being seamlessly applied – often by those who spent the last two decades objecting to it – to the threat posed by ‘domestic white supremacist terrorists’, the term preferred by liberal elites, especially after yesterday, for Trump supporters generally. In so many ways, yesterday was the liberals’ 9/11, as even the most sensible commentators among them are resorting to the most unhinged rhetoric available…

        ..There is a huge difference between, on the one hand, thousands of people shooting their way into the Capitol after a long-planned, coordinated plot with the goal of seizing permanent power, and, on the other, an impulsive and grievance-driven crowd more or less waltzing into the Capitol as the result of strength in numbers and then leaving a few hours later.”

        Reply
        1. millie bobby brownie

          No, I just found it interesting that they were so similar. I’m done being unnecessarily nasty to all and sundry.

          And as for Carson, even a stopped clock and all that. He’s one of many condemning Trump’s actions on Wednesday, for example.

          But thanks for the link. I’m about to have my lunch and with any luck I’ll have a chance to read it and come back to you.

          Reply
        2. Nigel

          Glenn Greenwald is mad because Trump supporters did something spectacularly stupid and showed off their entire anti-democratic backsides to the whole world, and liberals responded by pointing this out? Invoking 9-11? He may not be a conservative, but he’s sure as hell a foghorn, and clearly favours Trump and Republicans over liberals and Democrats. Two months of Trump and Trumpist’s lies and hysteria about the election, and liberal’s responses to this fash mob are unhinged? Utter twerpery. Is there a heart so hard in all the world that it would not rejoice at Trumpists getting prosecuted under Trump laws designed to punish black demonstraters, while fervently advocating the law’s repeal? Only the Greenwalds of this world see liberal’s failure to be saints as equal to the right’s embrace of pure evil for evil’s sake.

          Reply
    5. Nigel

      ‘Cue more curtailments on civil liberties, internet censorship etc’

      BLM protesters subjected to brutality and mass arrests by militarised police, Native American protestors protecting their lands likewise – but a white crowd summoned by Trump, calling for the cancellation of over 8 million votes to install their king, allowed to storm the nation’s capitol in the company of representatives and off-duty police and military, given directions to Pelosi’s offices, Trump refusing to call in the National Guard, and this handwavey nonsense is your conclusion?

      Reply
      1. Toe Up

        It appeared to me that there were probably some members of the DC police force who were sympathetic to the protesters’ cause (Trump is for Blue Lives Matter after all) and they allowed them easier access instead of meeting them with more resistance.

        Why the National Guard weren’t there prior to the demonstration and why they weren’t in riot gear is a different question, but I have seen reports saying that Trump refused the initial requests for support.

        Reply
  4. Charger Salmons

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TheSun/status/1347306568342261763/photo/1

    Fantastic campaign by the UK Sun to drum up an army of volunteers to help staff the vaccination centres that are springing up all over the country.
    Some of Britain’s biggest companies are getting involved with the Army providing key logistics and support.
    There’s a real Blitz spirit being worked up with Boris channelling his inner Churchill.
    He’s going to confound a lot of people and come out of this and delivering Brexit in a very strong political position.
    Charger’s latest vax fact – 1.5 million old and vulnerable people have received their first vaccination dose, more than 300 times the number of those in France.
    Marvellous !

    Reply
      1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

        The Sun – boycott all Murdoch rubbish. His minions have caused division everywhere he publishes. In Melbourne, the tabloid has attacked the state Govt., while the equivalent rags in Tory-run states are very supportive of their state govts. response to the virus. #murdochfreeaustralia
        He is as dangerous as Trump.

        Reply
      2. GiggidyGoo

        Some blighters won’t take the Pfizer jab.

        Dr Paul Williams, former Labour MP for Stockton South, tweeted: “Some local patients have turned down an offer this weekend of getting a Covid vaccine when they found out it was the Pfizer one. ‘I’ll wait for the English one’.”

        Naw, they’ll wait for the ‘English one’ Cue a few bars of Escape to Victory and The Italian Job.

        La la la laaaaaaa, la la lah, x heh heh heh.

        Reply
    1. Morning George

      Laughable Charger.That’s the sort of guff that got you banned from the ‘Peoples republic of Cork.com.’

      Reply
    2. Charger Salmons

      Great news that early research shows the Pfizer vaccine is resistant to the two new mutations of the virus.
      Marvellous.

      Reply
    1. Brother Barnabas

      it’s been well established at this point that was the trinity college branch of Young Fine Gael trying to discredit SF

      in fact, that’s where antifa got the idea for last night’s insurrection

      Reply
        1. Cian

          But SF/IRA denies the legitimacy of the political entities of the Republic of Ireland / Northern Ireland / The Irish Constitution. Therefore they can’t do sedition.

          Reply
        2. GiggidyGoo

          Naw. But sure it’s a national pastime for politicians, of all parties i’d say. Jim Gibbons for starters. Democracy alright.

          Reply
          1. Rob_G

            So you object to a video from ten years ago featuring a sitting SF TD inciting a mob to storm the Dáil as being too old, but then go on to give a hot take on a man who served as a Minister 50 years ago, and who died 25 years ago…

    2. Cian

      The lads in the US missed a trick.

      As they stormed the capitol and smashing doors and assaulting the security sraff they should have been chanting “Peaceful Protest! Peaceful Protest!”

      Reply
  5. Rosette of Sirius

    Meanwhile…

    We’re now learning that a Police Officer has died following the riots at the US Capitol yesterday.

    Oh.

    Reply
    1. dav

      they really don’t care – the at-right are trying to determine if the officer who shot the terrorist yesterday was African American or not and stating that Trumps video message where he conceded was a deep fake.

      Reply
  6. Papi

    Alright. Crazy criminal has broken in to your house.
    He has a gun to your head.
    You have three choices.
    . Whitney Houston
    . Pixies
    . Bon Jovi
    Choose.

    Reply
    1. scottser

      bon jovi. you can both belt out ‘WANTED (WANTAYEEED)! DEAD OR ALIVE’ together and become best mates in a weird, mulleted, stockholm syndrome sort of fashion.

      Reply
  7. E'Matty

    Interesting to see the large numbers of medical care professionals across Europe and the US share the same concerns about the vaccines as the so-called “anti-vaxxers”. The “listen to the experts” imbeciles must suffer severe cognitive dissonance reading articles like this one. Interesting just how high the numbers are too. But, yeah, it’s just crazy conspriacy theorists who have concerns about vaccine safety, lol.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/vaccine-scepticism-among-medics-sparks-alarm-in-europe-and-us-1.4452612

    “A poll released in mid-December caused surprise in Germany by showing that half of surveyed nurses did not want to be vaccinated, along with a quarter of doctors.”

    “the head of one German state said only a third of healthcare workers in his state were willing to get the jab.”

    “In France 76 per cent of senior care home staff said they did not want to get vaccinated”

    “In Austria only half of the staff of care facilities in the region of Vorarlberg said they were willing to be inoculated”

    “In the US a survey released last month by the Kaiser Family Foundation health think-tank found that 29 per cent of US healthcare workers would probably or definitely not get a vaccine, a slightly higher proportion than in the overall population (27 per cent)”

    “data showed regular flu vaccines among medics was “unfortunately very, very below average””

    “The latest polls on vaccine acceptance, however, suggest that the public is not growing more confident. In the spring, 79 per cent of respondents to Germany’s University of Erfurt survey were willing to be vaccinated, while in September that number had dropped to 56 per cent. Last month, a YouGov poll suggested 32 per cent of Germans were immediately willing to be inoculated, while another 33 per cent wanted to see how the first round of vaccination went.

    In France, amid a slow rollout of the vaccination campaign, only 40 per cent of French people polled by Ipsos last week said they planned to be vaccinated, down from 54 per cent in October and 59 per cent in August.”

    Here’s another article from the Branch Covidian PR unit at the Journal
    https://www.thejournal.ie/hse-healthcare-workers-vaccine-flu-covid-19-winter-5201937-Sep2020/

    “According to figures from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre, 43.1% of healthcare workers in long-term care facilities received the flu vaccine.”

    “Some facilities reported flu vaccine uptake rates among staff below 10%, despite the vaccine being free for healthcare workers. ”

    “One manager of a long-term care centre, who didn’t want to be named, told TheJournal.ie that it was a struggle every year to get staff vaccinated. “Staff here are very anti-flu vaccine,” they said.”

    Reply
    1. dav

      https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/campaign-against-vaccines-already-under-way/617443/
      “For almost as long as humanity has had vaccines, it has also had propagandists who try to scare people out of using them. Among the many medical questions contemplated in the journal The Lancet in the late 1890s and early 1900s—“Grey Hair and Emotional States,” “In Praise of Rum and Milk,” “On the Value of Cheese as a Dietetic Resource in Diabetes Mellitus”—are letters debating the efficacy of the smallpox vaccine, the age at which children should get it, the risk of the vaccine relative to the disease, and the extent to which local authorities should enforce compulsory vaccination in case of outbreaks.
      The misleading claims Americans will soon hear about the newly released COVID-19 vaccines are nearly identical to claims made about smallpox immunizations 120 years ago: The ingredients are toxic and unnatural; the vaccines are insufficiently tested; the scientists who produce them are quacks and profiteers; the cell cultures involved in some shots are an affront to the religious; the authorities working to protect public health are guilty of tyrannical overreach. In the British Medical Journal in that period, a Dr. Francis T. Bond frets about what to do about his era’s anti-vaxxers and their arguments, which have since become well-trod canards because they are effective in frightening people.
      Today’s anti-vaccine activists, however, enjoy a speed, scale, and reach far greater than those of Dr. Bond’s day. Bottom-up networked activism is driving the spread of anti-vaccine COVID-19 propaganda. Americans are about to see a deluge of tweets, posts, and snarky memes that will attempt to erode trust in the vaccine rollouts. Society’s ability to return to a semblance of normalcy depends on how effectively public-health authorities counter this misinformation and how assiduously media outlets and internet platforms refrain from amplifying it—but also on whether average Americans recognize that the material they click on and share has real-world consequences.”

      Reply
    2. Brother Barnabas

      are you saying the sheer volume of misinformation and falsehoods being spread online by imbeciles is having a genuinely destructive impact?

      Reply
      1. alickdouglas

        I know you weren’t speaking to me, but I have an opinion on that.

        I’ve been in infectious diseases for well over two decades and specifically in vaccines for about 20 years. To a certain extent, I’m sort of excited to see people engaging so much about vaccines and science. Another side effect is that I’ve already seen a huge bump in access to peer reviewed science as journals are forced to loosen their grip.

        Sure, I’m extremely disappointed at the amount of nonsense out there. But it comes from both directions, from both the ‘lay public’ and ‘scientists’. It’s particularly disappointing when it comes from the latter group. As a whole, they should know better. I’m shocked and disgusted at the number of people whith postgraduate degrees in health sciences spouting nonsense. At the end of the day, vaccinology is an extremely complex domain of medicine and it doesn’t lend itself particularly well to short discussions, especially not on internet chatrooms. It particularly doesn’t lend itself to crossover from other domains (I’m looking at you small molecule drug developers).

        The saddest part of all this for me however is in how much the situation we are in could have been avoided. Any serious people working in emerging infectious diseases knew the threat was there and have been screaming about it for decades. That community has learned a huge amount recently for example from the Ebola outbreak in Africa, H1N1, H5N1, Zika and earlier, HIV and Hep B among many others. Authorities (govt etc) have known about the awful state of public health, and the profit-driven nature of vaccines discovery for decades.

        Sure, there is a lot of nonsense propagated on the internet, but the people who should have had their eye on the ball on this have been absent. The situation wouldn’t be fractionally as bad if people spent less time thinking about their career and media image.

        Reply
        1. millie bobby brownie

          I’ve stated here before that I’m no scientist or healthcare professional, so my understanding of anything I do read or watch is limited by my education in science, which comprises of secondary school sciences.

          But anything I have read or watched in this past year tees up with exactly what you have posted in terms of public health systems, a universal lack of preparation by successive governments worldwide, and a ‘head-in-the-sand’ attitude by those in power, despite numerous and repeated warnings over the years. I vividly recall watching a documentary on how viruses spread and pandemics caused, and then seeing it play out in real life, as described in this documentary.

          Reply
        2. Brother Barnabas

          just to be clear, alick: I wasnt referring to you – as I’ve said before, i have utmost respect for your obviously-informed and knowledgeable comments here

          I was being facetious to E’Matty

          I’d only disagree with you that the nonsense being spouted is a “disappointment”. it’s gone beyond that, I feel

          it’s not just about covid or vaccines – what happened the other evening in DC was a dangerous illustration of where falsehoods and downright lies can go

          the covid/vaccine lies are, I suspect, largely responsible for the very significant number of ‘vaccine cautious’ throughout europe – and this could have a massively detrimental impact on the efforts to get us out of this

          a commenter on BS made the claim a few days ago that it’s been proven that the Pfizer vaccine causes Bell’s Palsy, having previously made the claim that it alters the recipient’s DNA

          when their views are challenged, ridiculed or called ‘stupid’, they present themselves as victims

          I’m disappointed there isnt a more active and committed campaign to properly inform and confront some of the poop being put out there

          Reply
          1. alickdouglas

            Didn’t think you were talking about me, I was being opportunistic during my lunchbreak to have an aul rant, and hung my comment onto yours somewhat at chance, apologies if it led to a rise in blood pressure.

            I’m all for stamping out poop–er, perhaps a bad choice of words… Unfortunately while there’s some fierce nonsense circulating, there is a lot of information that is linked to misunderstandings, poor communications or poor data.

            Politicians (in particular but they are not alone) are constantly keen to paint the situation as ‘we understand what is happening, trust us, we are smart’ but the reality is the situation is extremely complicated. I think it’s important to acknowledge where we have and don’t have data, and a lot of the nonsense about vaccines have their roots in areas where data is poor.

          2. ReproBertie

            “a lot of the nonsense about vaccines have their roots in areas where data is poor.”
            We’ve already seen the anti-vaxxers use this lack of data as their stick to beat the new vaccines. For example, the vaccine makers are saying they don’t yet have enough data to conclusively state that the vaccines prevent the spread which the anti-vaxxers are taking as evidence that the vaccines don’t prevent the spread.

          3. f_lawless

            @RB & BB

            Why do you guys have such a hard time accepting the fact that there are some high-level medical experts who have raised concerns that there are significant potential risks with these new vaccines – for example, an increased risk of auto-immune response at some future point down the line? Here’s the names of a few: Michael Yeadon, Sucharit Bhakdi. Ronald S. Veazey.

            It comes across as a bit immature form of debate to try and label any discussions about this as uninformed “ant-vaxx”. Perhaps it’s a kind of cognitive dissonance?

          4. Brother Barnabas

            I dont have any problem accepting that, f_lawless. I’ve previously said here that, while i absolutely will take the vaccine, I’ll do so with some minor trepidation. and I think that’s normal.

            what I have an issue with is people propagating obvious falsehoods – and I cited a couple of them above, all of which have appeared on these pages – which can only be designed to scaremonger and discourage others. why would someone do that? (and it’s not because they somehow believe these claims… they dont). and why would they continue to do that no matter what? if the answer is not that this person is simply a committed anti-vaxxer on a campaign to proselytize, what is it? if I’ve come across as dismissive or aggressive or petulant of late, this is why

          5. ReproBertie

            It’s immature of me to highlight anti-vaxxers using a lack of data as some sort of evidence in their anti-vax campaign?

            If you look at my post you’ll see that that is all I said.

            I don’t have any problem accepting that some high level medical experts have raised concerns. Why do you have such a problem accepting the fact that I don’t care about their concerns when the majority of high level medical opinion is that the vaccines are safe?

          6. bisted

            …in fairness f_lawless, you have a lot of previous on this issue…I don’t want to rehearse all the lies you’ve told on here…but…what motivates you?

          7. f_lawless

            Fair enough guys. I think it’s a fair point that it’s completely unhelpful to make or exaggerate claims that can’t be backed up by expert opinion. I appreciate its a very emotionally charged subject to talk about and everyone is entitled to their own opinion on it. I can say with all honesty I’m not coming from a position of wanting to troll people – as much as bisted doesn’t want to believe that ;)

            What I do believe hand on heart, is that what we’re seeing unfold now is not only about protecting the vulnerable from Covid-19 but that there’s a wider top-down agenda at play that our own government is kowtowing to. I really do believe that the danger of covid is being used as pretext by elite global policymakers to completely restructure economies and condition us all to opt in to a new era of heightened surveillance which will evolve into a new totalitarian-like social credit system – a precursor to which is already being seen in China.

            Sure it’s easier to scoff and dismiss it as outlandish “conspiracy theory” and I wish it were so. Unfortunately as the months have passed and events have unfolded, the case has gotten stronger.

          8. Brother Barnabas

            fair enough, f_lawless

            believe it or not, I do actually appreciate where you’re coming from

            I hope you’re wrong, and I do think you are

            all I’d say, though: you could be a little more discerning when next choosing your right-hand man

    3. alickdouglas

      This is what I love about the sudden upsurge of interest in vaccines, reporting data like it’s exhibiting a ‘new’ trend (I’m not having a go at you E’Matty, rather the polling and reporting).

      Flu uptake has traditionally been completely brutal among HCWs. I couldn’t remember off the top of my head, but a quick google shows that there’s data for huge variability between NHS trusts in the UK, with about 15% vaccinated vs. flu in some trusts and 68% in others (2017/18). Back in the days when we were worried about pertussis infection of infants, I remember seeing that Germany had by far the highest uptake of adult dtaP vaccine in the EU, at a miserable 18% in older people and parents of infants (who were specifically targeted by campaigns). My wife was pregnant during a regional pertussis vaccination campaign targeting pregnant women and their partners, and we didn’t know about it until after the birth (I was working on pertussis at the time, although in a different region from where I lived).

      If I were to speculate, I would say that a major factor is that prior to 2020, non-specialist physicians had almost no exposure to infectious diseases, and extremely limited training in the domain: certainly in the UK where I trained most recently, the focus before 2019 was almost entirely on non-communicable issues. Entirely anecdotally, I’m shocked almost 100% of the time by how little medical professionals understand about infectious diseases (or vaccines) (for the record, I’m not a physician).

      Reply
      1. Cian

        Entirely anecdotally, I’m shocked almost 100% of the time by how little medical professionals understand about infectious diseases

        It is kind of ironic that 50 years ago every GP would have been massively aware of infectious diseases and would have dealt with them all the time. But waves of successful vaccine rollouts have removed all those infectious diseases from society at large.

        Reply
        1. alickdouglas

          yup.
          I had measles, mumps and rubella as a kid, as I’m sure many people did here. The vaccine was available, but just didn’t get it… My ‘continental’ colleagues of my age are often rendered speechless by that.

          Reply
          1. alickdouglas

            BB; my mother was a bit of a sceptic, at the time. There were some vaccine associated deaths around then. I believe I only got on shot of DTP too (clearly she was well ahead of the curve, seems like JCVI learned from her).

  8. Charger Salmons

    Missing in action.
    Not a peep all week from RTE’s Brussels correspondent Tony Connelly as Europe’s media ( with the inevitable exception of Ireland ) rage against the slow delivery of vaccines and incomopetent acquisition of them by the EU.
    At a time of great national crisis when Irish lives will be lost in the coming months because of these decisions this is an absolute dereliction of duty.
    Connelly has gone into hiding rather than offend his EU hosts by asking embarrassing questions.
    He should be knocking on closed doors and demanding answers if he was halfway credible.
    An absolute disgrace from a public service broadcaster whose wages we pay.

    Reply
    1. ReproBertie

      Tony Connelly must have really done an excellent job on reporting about Sasamach since you spend so much time trying to discredit him. And, let’s be honest here, this dig at Tony is just another way for you to have a dig at the EU about vaccine distribution which is just yet another excuse to have a dig at the EU.

      Reply
      1. Haroo

        It is symptomatic of the big v little relationship. Look at us with the UK. We focus on them to no end and they barely notice us. Same with other countries. France v Belgium. Spain v Portugal. Germany v Austria.

        And now the EU v the UK. Charger is just the little in this relationship. He spends hours trying to find and point out the failings of the EU as it is the bigger entity in the relationship.

        He will always look to Europe.

        Reply
        1. ReproBertie

          Every little out of nowhere dig reminds me of Kirk Van Houten’s “I sleep in a racing car, do you?” bit.

          Reply
      2. Charger Salmons

        If you don’t care that the people you pay a big chunk of your taxes to are not doing their job properly and whose incompetence will cost the lives of Irish citizens then you’re a fool.
        RTE finally got around to asking questions in Prime Time last night but gave some EU minion the easiest of interviews and let Billy Kelleher MEP bluster away with the mildest of criticism of the EU.
        Is Ireland really THAT afraid of rocking the boat it has to take a Trappist vow of silence as the price to pay ?

        Reply
        1. ReproBertie

          You don’t care. You just want to have a dig.

          I’ve heard questions asked about the EU acquisition and Ireland’s place in it on RTÉ numerous times. Just because you don’t hear it doesn’t mean it’s not happening.

          I’d love to see your examples where the media in all other 26 EU states “rage against the slow delivery of vaccines and incomopetent acquisition of them by the EU.”

          Reply
          1. Haroo

            Honestly, your digs at the EU make me think that we look so silly and foolish with the prevalent attitudes in Ireland toward the UK.

            That is a serious inferiority complex you have toward the EU, old bean.

          2. Otis Blue

            That link does little to support your argument but instead sets out some clear facts and explains quite rationally why there has been a delay in the vaccine rollout. It was first posted here some days ago to rebut your nonsense.

          3. Haroo

            Charger, you seem to take a vow of silence on every point made to you here.

            In my opinion criticism of the EU is healthy and good. The EU is nowhere near its final point. It is still developing and evolving. Criticism can correct its faults and see it develop toward where most either want or toward a point where it serves most EU citizen and business needs.

            Why you may find a dearth of heavy criticism in Ireland is because I think we came out as the most pro-EU country in the Union in 2019. The EU is not perfect and has its flaws but I think it is easy to see that it has helped Ireland immeasureably and changed Ireland for the better since membership.

            Just because you have a different experience from the UK doesn’t mean we share your perception or reality.

            Now this headache ( aka Charger) is predictable. Watch him reference the bailout. 3…2…1…

          4. ReproBertie

            Here’s a 6 day old report from RTÉ covering people questioning the EU and the rollout.

            https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0102/1187353-coronavirus-vaccine/

            This afternoon, fellow Fianna Fáil TD Marc MacSharry argued that the Government should “urgently” demand more Covid-19 vaccine from drug firms – “at whatever the price” – and then ensure it is administered to the public with “military precision”.

            The deputy for Sligo-Leitrim said while he appreciated Ireland was part of an EU procurement process, both Israel and Bahrain were leading the charge when it came to the vaccine roll-out by “keeping things simple and getting the job done”.

            He contended that both Ireland and the European Union are failing citizens because we have “strangled ourselves with process, procedure and bureaucracy”.

            The Fianna Fáil backbencher said data released last night showed that only 1,800 doses have been administered to people in Ireland, when more than 40,000 arrived a week ago – and this was “simply not good enough”.

            Mr MacSharry said he wanted to know whether it was money, complacency or ineptitude which has led to a situation in which a vaccine manufactured in the EU was not available in a large supply to member states.

          5. ReproBertie

            So, your examples where the media in the other 26 EU states “rage against the slow delivery of vaccines and incomopetent acquisition of them by the EU.”?

      3. scottser

        charger thinks we should take a leaf out hancock’s book, you know arriving at a photoshoot at a london clinic to cheerlead the uk vaccination efforts, only to be told that the vaccines hadn’t arrived yet.
        bless.

        Reply
    2. Charlie

      “…We pay”. Good man Tommy…or should I say Tomás. Maith an buachaill. Haa

      We are Millwall,
      We are Millwall,
      We are Millwall, from the Den,
      We are Millwall, super Millwall,
      We are Millwall, from the Den

      No one likes us, no one likes us,
      No one likes us, we don’t care,
      We are Millwall, super Millwall,
      We are Millwall, from the Den…

      Reply
  9. dav

    More “seemless” brexit
    https://www.thejournal.ie/dpd-uk-brexit-5319599-Jan2021/
    “PARCEL DELIVERY COMPANY DPD UK has said that it will be pausing all its road delivery services from the UK to Europe, including Ireland, as it deals with the customs changes caused by Brexit.
    These services will be paused until at least Wednesday 13 January, the company said this morning”

    https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/0107/1188345-hauliers/
    “Hauliers have warned they are being “overwhelmed” by red tape due to new checks on deliveries to Northern Ireland from Britain following Brexit.
    The industry body Logistics UK said deliveries were being delayed as lorries arrived in Belfast with incomplete paperwork following the end of the transition period on 31 December.
    The organisation’s Northern Ireland policy manager Seamus Leheny said the problems were a direct result of Boris Johnson’s Brexit divorce settlement with Brussels.”

    Reply
    1. Charger Salmons

      It’s ‘seamless’ by the way.
      These teething problems are inevitable when decades-old trading arrangements change.
      It’s why Revenue are cutting Irish firms who are not ready some slack despite some clown on here yesterday saying they were up to speed and it was only UK ‘ household ‘ names who had done no planning even though the joker couldn’t name any.

      https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/post-brexit-customs-eased-temporarily-for-businesses-importing-from-britain-1.4453074

      Reply
  10. Charger Salmons

    Boris is obliged as Prime Minister to respect the office of the POTUS and to have as cordial a relationship as possible with the leader of our biggest partner in NATO.
    The BOGOF Brothers here in Ireland are no different.
    Both countries will be putting the same amount of effort into having the same relationship with the new administration.
    You’d be an idiot if you thought otherwise.

    Reply
    1. Haroo

      Oh God yeah, Ireland’s political leaders are subservient to US presidents absolutely. I don’t know what the BOGOF brothers are but I assume you mean Ireland’s political leaders or head of government.

      But surely the UK is above that? We accept our place in the international system but the UK is a nuclear power, has a seat on the P5 of the security council. Surely they do not have to be as subservient as us. Or is there no difference?

      What about Bojo turning his back on Trump? Is Bojo following the crowd. You had some harsh words for Mr Starmer yesterday when he condemned Trump. You said something about bending the knee or something? Does that apply to Boris?

      Reply
    2. Nigel

      None of the BOGOFs got caught making racist comments about the first black president of the US, with whom the current president has a close relationship, so they probably won’t have to work quite as hard.

      Reply
      1. Charger Salmons

        Keeping the giant Toblerones stocked up in duty free at Shannon Airport for the US boys passing through is sacrifice enough …

        Reply
  11. Brother Barnabas

    some more good news:

    “Meanwhile, a new laboratory study has shown that the Pfizer and BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine appeared to work against a key mutation in the highly transmissible new variants of the coronavirus discovered in Britain and South Africa.

    The study by Pfizer and scientists from the University of Texas Medical Branch, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, indicated the vaccine was effective in neutralizing virus with the so-called N501Y mutation of the spike protein.”

    Reply
  12. millie bobby brownie

    Always love seeing the incredible innovation and creativity which comes from the Young Scientist competition. This year’s winner (from Cork, you’ll be glad to hear, Frill) just announced, and it sounds like an excellent and very prescient project. Congratulations to him.

    https://jrnl.ie/5319823

    Reply
    1. Rosette of Sirius

      Huge fan of Young Scientists! Was a runner up with a two of my friends back in the 80’s…. Amazing experience.

      Reply

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