Looking For Answers

at | 89 Replies

Last night.

Blanchardstown, Dublin

Supporters of the family of George Nkencho hold a candlelight procession from Church Road, Dublin 15 to Blanchardstown garda station where they held a vigil in his honour. Mr Nkencho was shot dead by gardaí during a stand-off outside his west Dublin home on December 30.

Previously: Meanwhile,In Blanchardstown

Sam Boal/RollingNews

89 thoughts on “Looking For Answers

  1. broadbag

    A tragic death of a mentally unwell criminal, not a race thing, much as Hazel Chu, Brid Smith, Paul Murphy and others would love it to be for their own disturbing agendas, however the ”protesters” caught on video calling the trapped shop staff ”white b’stards” and wishing death upon them should be investigated as a hate crime…any word on that happening?

    Reply
    1. Joe

      Probably not a race thing but an extra judicial killing. The Gardai are not judge and jury. We do not have capital punishment here like lesser civilised countries like the USA and Iran. The Gardai have previous on these things in too many similar circumstances. Gardai with full body shields and armoured riot gear are trained to subdue armed rioters etc could have subdued the victim without killing them.
      Bringing in armed ERU Gardai to deal with something that could have been managed better was a bad judgement call at the very least. I note two bullets were fired through the front window of the house. It was the mercy of whatever that no one else was killed as well. I fully support Brid Smith, Paul Murphy etc in calling for a full inquiry.

      Reply
      1. Rob_G

        “Probably not a race thing but an extra judicial killing.”

        – Jesus wept…

        “I fully support Brid Smith, Paul Murphy etc in calling for a full inquiry.”

        – every time a Garda discharges their weapon in the course of their duty, there is automatically an ombudsman investigation.

        Reply
    2. Brother Barnabas

      he was not a “criminal”. that was a lie spread on social media – Gardai even issued a statement confirming that he had no criminal record

      why would you continue to assert that?

      Reply
      1. broadbag

        He had committed crimes earlier that day, hence the police were called – why would you pretend he hadn’t, utterly bizarre. Punching people, trying to hold up a store, threatening staff, wielding a knife, attacking police with a knife are criminal offences, no?

        Very hard to find the racist verbal abuse video so have it from some random twitter thread
        https://twitter.com/ox_dev/status/1344682108887986179?s=19

        Reply
        1. Brother Barnabas

          having never been convicted of a crime, he was not a criminal

          I dont know what happened in the shop earlier in the day – we’re going on a load of nonsense spread around social media

          initial hysteria was that he slashed someone to within an inch of his life. Gardai have since said that’s not true. it was an assault, but did not involve a knife. so was it a couple of punches? because we’ve all done that

          Reply
          1. Cian

            …there is a difference between a “criminal” and a”convicted criminal”;

            If you commit a crime you are a criminal even if you are not convicted.

            You admit he assaulted someone. Assault is a crime. Then he was a criminal.

          2. Brother Barnabas

            not exactly, cian

            who’s to say it was a “crime”? we havent yet had an investigation. and we dont know the facts. was it self defence? did he perceive himself to be under threat?

          3. broadbag

            ”we’ve all done that”

            Speak for yourself, I’ve never threatened/attacked anyone in a shop and then produced a knife and lunged at Gardai with it, but you know I’m sure he was a saint really.

          4. Brother Barnabas

            the “we’ve all done that” was in reference to a couple of punches

            no, I’ve never done the things you describe either. but we dont know for sure that this guy did either. we should probably wait for the full inquiry.

            all we know for sure is that he suffered from mental illness and appears to have had a breakdown. it wasnt characteristic behaviour from him. that’s sad.

          5. Rob_G

            “having never been convicted of a crime, he was not a criminal” – I think that is splitting hairs, a bit

            “it was an assault, but did not involve a knife. so was it a couple of punches? because we’ve all done that”
            – I can’t believe that someone is so right-on that they seeking to diminish a physical assault on a person who was attacked while doing their job…

          6. Brother Barnabas

            I dont think it’s particularly “right on” to feel we should wait for the outcome of the investigation before making judgements (based on a load of hearsay, conjecture and rumour)

          7. ReproBertie

            “You admit he assaulted someone. Assault is a crime. Then he was a criminal.”

            There’s a reason we have courts to examine the evidence and decide guilt or innocence. We do not know enough about what happened in the shop to decide. I am not saying he didn’t assault someone. I’m saying we do not know what led to it or what the circumstances were. This is the sort of information that helps a court make a decision.

          8. broadbag

            @BrotherBarnabas ”we should probably wait for the full inquiry.”

            On this we can agree.

            Those demanding ‘justice’ should probably do the same rather than calling for people to be ”terminated” like his brother did, or causing racial tension with inflammatory anti-white death threats which if reversed would be getting way more media coverage and/or Garda interest. They can all be put down to emotions running high after a terrible event so hopefully that’s where this kind of stuff ends.

          9. Rob_G

            For someone who wants to wait for the inquiry before rushing to judgement, who are leaping to a few conclusions yourself (ah sure it was only a few slaps the shop manager got, sure haven’t we all the done the same… all we know for sure is that he suffered from mental illness)

          10. Brother Barnabas

            I didnt actually jump to those conclusions, rob

            read it again

            all I’ve said is that all we know is:

            – there was an assault
            – he suffered from mental illness

            these two facts have been confirmed by the Gardai, so that’s good enough for me. everything else is twitter twaddle.

          1. Brother Barnabas

            okay, well that’s obviously unsavoury

            however, I wouldn’t attach too much weight to what sounds to me to be a small group of hysterical teenagers – put teenagers, from anywhere, black or white, into a group and they tend to behave like sillies

            I know this looks like I’m trying to deflect

          2. Junkface

            US Identity Politics is a poisonous, mind virus. It has convinced these black irish people that they have experienced the same race fueled injustice as black people in America. They have not. Not even close. Ireland is a million years from the way the US Police and justice department has killed black people since the 60’s. This was possibly the first black man to be killed by the Gards in a pursuit. And they have signs saying “enough is enough”. Dear God! They have been manipulated by wokeism and identity politics. This will always lead to more race division in society, not unity. The black community have been falsely angered by misinformation in the same way that Trumps supporters were angered by misinformation. Its a dangerous ideology.

            He was a criminal, because of his violent actions on the day. Threatening to kill people with a large knife in shops. That is criminal. Lunging at the Gards with a knife, again criminal. He was mentally unwell but he endangered many lives. That is criminal.

          3. Nigel

            Personally I think the US right-wing culture war approach of treating any mention of race by people who experience or study racism as some sort of disqualification or intrinsically dishonest is the real poisonous mind virus.

          4. Nigel

            As if assertions about the primacy of individialism isn’t by definition a form of identity politics. In fact the hyperindividualism of the right has been one of the more prominent and decisive forms of identity politics of the 21st century so far, along with various forms of religious extremism and nationalism. By comparison, black people complaining about getting shot by police forces, as a form of identity politics, has been relatively low key.

          5. Brother Barnabas

            micko, could you please be respectful towards others’ opinions? describing someone’s comment as “rubbish” is childish and really adds nothing to the debate.

            oh wait, what?

          6. Brother Barnabas

            I think you’ll find I called him ‘Thicko Micko’ (‘Whacko Micko’ was 2020)

            anyway, my comment was pointing out his unthinking hypocrisy – gets his knickers in a twist and goes off on a righteous diatribe when his comments are dismissed as “stupid” but then turns round and calls someone else’s comment “rubbish”

            so, yeah, as you were

          7. Brother Barnabas

            I like to see it as calling out poopety-poop rather than obnoxious, pat

            but I do see how you might regard it as the latter

          8. Junkface

            @Nigel
            Have you ever listened to black writers, thinkers, intellectuals actually discussing the pros and cons of identity politics? They take it apart, look into the facts, the lack of serious study, data collection and peer reviews of important Critical Race Theory books and papers, and find it to be a dangerous, fraudulent ideology. They also find it disturbing that many schools across the USA and now UK have been implementing this ideology with young black students. Teaching them the worst lessons of life.

            Its actually causing more racial tension in schools and colleges. The opposite of what that movement actually claims.

            Also from that clip. It has made black irish people racist. Shouting racist abuse at white people who are innocently shopping!! Is this the utopia you want?

          9. Nigel

            Do they? All of them? Are there no black thinkers or intellectuals who think otherwise? Speaking of freedom of speech and freedom of thought and censorship didn’t free speech champion and thinker and intellectual Donald Trump take steps to ban it from universities and schools? So is throwing people who accuse others of pedophilia with no evidence off a social media platform bad while supressing an entire school of thought in public education because it’s by and about black people good?

            ‘It has made black irish people racist.’

            Yeah, I’d say those lads got As in Critical Race Theory for the Leaving all right.

          10. Junkface

            @Nigel
            Actually Nigel, Trump was well advised on that one, for a change. Trump was terrible president and a disgrace, BUT he did get a small number of things right. The issue with China on trading, stealing tech was actually correct too. Think logically, look at the facts, even people you hate can be right sometimes and it takes maturity to see that.

            “Yeah, I’d say those lads got As in Critical Race Theory for the Leaving all right.”- Nigel

            In case you have not been paying attention CRT is all over main stream news papers and TV. They are even forcing it into the workplace in big corporations. Google, Facebook, Twitter, NY times, Washington Post. Do keep up.

          11. Nigel

            Alternatively, agreeing with someone who is so reliably wrong and agressively deceptive and politically supported by white nationalists and Nazis might make you re-examine the thing, particularly as related to race. But no, I don’t agree with him or you that black people exploring the role of race in US history, culture and society is the real racism. I hope those lads get over their cornerboy tendencies and have a bright future ahead of them, but I don’t think they’re working at Google yet.

          12. Junkface

            @Nigel
            I dunno what else to say. I think you, and a lot of people following this new woke/ identity politics that is pushed hard all over TV, advertising, movies, and newspapers, have your hearts in the right place. I want a more unified world where racism is a moronic, ignorant thing of the past, but this ideology is not the way to do it. I have talked to my black relatives about this stuff, they agree that the colour blindness attitude to life, work and love is the mentally healthier route to go.

            Judge people on their character, not their skin colour as Martin Luther King said. The 1960’s civil rights movement was 100% the way to go to a more unified, fair, equal society.

          13. Nigel

            I don’t think treating people equally is incompatible with discussing racism. In fact, setting racism as a topic out of bounds is in itself an act of inequality.

          14. Junkface

            Wait a minute! I agree that we should discuss racism, whenever it occurs. Are we 100% sure that any racism occurred here? Before the results of the investigation?

            Just because a black man died tragically from a serious mental health breakdown and the Gards had to respond for everyone’s safety, and the law, does not automatically mean this was due to racism.

            People are not thinking clearly here.

          15. Micko

            Nigel

            What would the final outcome you would hope to see if intersectionality and group identity was taken to its eventual conclusion?

            How can separating everyone into simplistic segments based on their group identity ever lead to anything good for society?

            And why is it only, race, gender, sex and ethnicity that seem to matter?

            Surely someone can be privileged in a whole host of ways? Wealth, education, geographical location – even attractiveness.

            In fact, you can associate someone with SO many group identities that you eventually end up – back at the individual.

          16. Nigel

            Jinkface – me neither, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t issues realted to race and policing involved. I think demanding that only when a rock-wolod 100% finding of racism has been officialliy reached can race become part of the discussion is a ridiculously high and exceptional standard.

            Micko – the final outcome is people gaining a better understanding of how the world works from the perspective of people who are and have been victims of prejudice and inequality. Difficult to do, perhaps, but not difficult to grasp as a concept.

          17. Junkface

            @Nigel
            You are being pedantic here. You know what I meant. If racism occurred on behalf of the police, and those are the official findings, that is the time to discuss racism. When the facts are verified.
            Don’t just assume racism because someone involved was black. Society cannot function that way, and it’s a terrible example to give black kids. This is why we have laws, evidence, legal argument, the pursuit of justice. Any politicians throwing their 2 cents in here without knowing any facts, is also misguided and uninformed.

          18. Nigel

            You’re setting boundaries on when people can and can’t discuss racism, and that is what this whole pushback is about – controlling the discussion of racism. You only want those black kids to know what YOU want them to know about racism.

          19. Junkface

            @Nigel
            I want them to know the truth! That is everything. Everything else is speculation until we know the facts. Come on, this is basic logic here for adults. We can discuss racism anytime, but you can’t have racist accusations at Gards doing their jobs without knowing what really happened.

          20. Nigel

            You can literally throw any old accusation at Guards doing their jobs, and people regularly do, there’s nothing special about race in that regard. But if you think banning Critical Race Theory will stop them speculating about whether race played a role in the shooting, good luck.

          21. Junkface

            @Nigel
            I think young irish black kids ,teenagers going through their lives thinking that the Gards are racists because of this issue is very, very damaging to them and society in general. Especially when we don’t even know if this is the case.

            We must not accept ANY racism in society if we are going to progress at all. This goes both ways too. Shouting abuse at white irish people is also totally wrong and unacceptable behaviour. We need unity, not this.

          22. Nigel

            If those kids, if members of the black community in Ireland, think the Guards are racist, it almost certainly isn’t because of this. My take is that they think this might be racist for other reasons, presumably due to their own experiences with Irish institutions and authorities. You seem to think it’s because of woke Americanisms brainwashing them, rather than them using the BLM model to express themselves.

      1. Brother Barnabas

        or they may feel genuinely aggrieved and may genuinely feel it’s the right thing to do

        rightly or wrongly

        Reply
        1. Junkface

          They have been mislead. No one protesting has actually looked into the facts at all. Its an emotional response they have learned from the USA. No logic here

          Reply
      2. ( ̄_, ̄ ) AKA Frilly Keane

        you know Clampers

        that’s a lazy cheap remark

        Sly even

        remember that the next time you’re posting up some personal health stuff
        or pics of your house
        or trying to let on you’re only interested in women’s safety when you’re doing your trans marathons with Nidgie

        because you opened the door yourself

        Reply
        1. Bitnboxy

          Well said V. I don’t know what has happened to Mr. Itchy McScratchy aka Clampers in recent years.

          I thought his cheap shot deserved another.

          Reply
    1. Dr.Fart

      the speaker in the video said it perfectly when he said “it’s about tomorrow, that’s why we’re doing what we’re doing today” .. and he’s right, if they make enough noise about it, its far less likely to happen again. the ARU might be more likely to shoot to injure, rather than unload 6 bullets into one guys torso.

      The most unbelievable part about it all is the sheer amount of people saying he was a criminal and deserved it. The absolute lack of empathy and respect for human life is not something I’ve seen before in Ireland. I didn’t know we’d gone that way as a people.

      Reply
      1. Brother Barnabas

        we’ve long harboured a romantic notion of ourselves, which seems to have come from comparing ourselves to our nearest neighbours

        they’re massive cn uts, we’re only moderate cn uts

        compared to them, we’re angels. but we’re still cn uts.

        I’ll be back at noon to take questions on this

        Reply
        1. Dr.Fart

          haha good man, Brother. I think you’re spot on. We are awful. The church is a good example of horrible we are. We have some strange mad desire for the world to view us as lovely friendly people. Then when theyre not looking we’re tearing the backs off each other.

          Reply
      2. ReproBertie

        “the ARU might be more likely to shoot to injure”
        No police force in the world is trained to “shoot to injure” there’s too much chance of missing. Even in this shooting they fired 5 bullets at his torso and missed with two. A better outcome would be an investment in other non-lethal weaponry.

        I would argue that the lack of empathy and respect for human life was evident when Pádraig Nally shot John Ward.

        Reply
        1. Dr.Fart

          Bertie: well absolutely! I just mean a better alternative to killing in this situation, could be utilised the next time something like this happens. Protesting and making themselves heard could save lives in the future, whereas if they did nothing, its less likely to change.

          Reply
  2. Nigel

    Without commenting on the specifics here, the way ‘making it about race’ has become some sort of red line for people that cannot and should not be crossed is weird. Well, not weird, it’s predictale at this point, but it leads to weird outcomes and comments. There are all sorts of ways race can factor into something and, y’know, whisper it – it’s not always a negative thing. It can be quite nuanced, complicated and interesting!

    Reply
    1. Toby

      Agreed. the first thing to acknowledge is that race is an issue. Whether anyone meant it to be is another thing. But lets start there.

      Reply
    2. Scundered

      And here we go with the identity politics obsession. Guaranteed to create toxicity, that’s why most people steer clear of it. Why not just treat people as equal individuals instead of obsessing over which boxes people fit into. Individualism should be paramount. This isn’t the 1950s.

      Reply
      1. Nigel

        You can treat people any way you like, within reason, but this state of denial about race, which is a real force in the world for good or ill, is idiotic, and stems from a desire to shut down the voices of people who experience racism.

        Reply
        1. Scundered

          Your race and skin colour doesn’t matter Nigel, the danger in your warped way of thinking about the world around you is it is always hijacked as a power grab often by those who don’t deserve it, as they ignore scientific data. For example in the UK reports show that white working class boys are the most disadvantaged, so would you intend giving them special privileges against the other races? I’ll bet you even believe in pseudoscience terms like “white privilege”. Of course you wouldn’t advantage them despite the science, it doesn’t fit with the trending victim narrative. I genuinely feel sorry for those who can only see people in terms of colours and trying to see racism in absolutely everything even when there’s usually not.

          Reply
          1. Nigel

            ‘White working class boys’

            Well no, because the problem there probably isn’t race, but class, though there may be some regional prejudices involved. If you think allocation of resources to areas of poverty and disadvantage is a special privelege against other races then I would support that, but I think you might be incorrect.

  3. PointofOrder

    Justice for the man who assaulted a shop worker & then threatened the guards by waving a knife around?
    Eh, no. I don’t want people like him walking around. I trust that the guards did exactly the right thing.

    Reply
      1. PointofOrder

        Well it’s not a bad suggestion as most of them inevitably avoid prison time, or if they do, the statistics show that they commit serious crimes again once they are out on bail.

        Reply
        1. goldenbrown

          (not sure if your comment is tongue in cheek or not)

          the problem with that logic is that it all becomes a zero sum game very quickly PointofOrder

          if as you say most of them inevitably avoid prison time I’d concentrate on fixing that aspect as opposed to changing our method of policing into something with a lower threshold for the value of a human life

          if you don’t like that why not apply for a green card and see if you prefer to live in a society conditioned to believe it’s acceptable to run with that lower threshold for shooting its citizens

          regarding this incident itself I’d wait for the investigation to clarify what exactly went on here first before reacting to it, until then it’s all he said she said conjecture and guesswork

          Reply
  4. Toby

    Lets be honest here. Race is at the core of this, but im not saying the cops are necessarily racists.

    If this was a white kid in Foxrock, this would have never happened.

    If this had happened n Foxrock, Drew Harris would have been before the Dail, on the media and TDs would be in arms.

    So it is a matter of race, but also social status, neighbourhood etc. And if I was the government, id use it as an opportunity to do something serious and significant.

    Reply
    1. axelf

      thats a crock of poo.

      there was a white lad from loughlinstown shot dead by AGS while sitting in his car and unarmed last year. there was no ruccus in the dail and no dragging of drew harris into a committee about it.

      Reply
      1. Toby

        Ah, you mean the lad who abducted and murdered Justine Valdez the day before and was slashing himself and anyone else around him?

        Look this is just pointing out the bleeding obvious. Not making any claims about anyone. But if you’re telling me a white lad would have been shot for what George did, there would ba lot of people shot dead in this country.

        Reply
        1. axelf

          he wasnt “slashing all around him”. he was sitting in his car, surrounded by armed cops and the only person he was slashing was himself.

          the thing in common with with the blanch shooting is the “perceived threat”. in blanch the cops had deployed non lethal measures which had not worked and when he lunged for a garda with a knife they felt that lethal force was proportionate to save the life of the garda. in the valdez case they perceived that jastine was alive in the car and he had a knife.

          Reply
          1. Scundered

            What’s the matter Nigel, not enough racism in the incident for you? See it happens to white people too, because most sane humans don’t give a crap about skin colour, only their behaviour.

    2. Daisy Chainsaw

      There were stories highlighted at the time of George Nkencho’s killing of Gardai arresting men brandishing knives without the need to shoot them. These men all happened to be white.

      It’s a matter of perception.

      Reply
      1. ReproBertie

        Off the top of my head I can think of two, one was a man with a samurai sword who dropped it when ordered to and the other was a man in the city centre who was tackled by a garda wielding an asp.

        Comparing two incidents just because a blade was involved in both is an exercise in futility.

        Reply
      2. broadbag

        Did these other men keep coming at the cops after the non-lethal options had been deployed, if so how did they disarm them? If not then they are different circumstances and irrelevant. As this man could not be stopped using the available non-lethal options and with people in the house behind him (none of whom had managed to convince him to put down the knife) the gardai may have been left with no choice – if they withdrew they put the family at risk and would inevitably be pilloried for not taking action if any of them were harmed/killed by George.

        Reply
  5. John F

    It’s a sad fact, the society is becoming numb to tragedies like this. It wasn’t long ago that a detective was killed when his gun was taken from him. The Garda in question made a choice and the assailant put him in that uncomfortable position. He didn’t get up that morning with the desire to shoot some teenager!
    Now the far left has found a new bandwagon to jump on. I am sure the necessary inquiry is already being undertaken by the guards. Making a political football out of it is not helpful. There is an argument for gardai using firearms to wear body cams to prevent future speculation.
    Now this bit is nitpicky.
    Looking at the pictures of the protest march, could you imagine the apocalyptic comments that would happen if it was an ultranationalist or anti-mask gathering etc.?
    Who would have thought that the virus and political preferences?

    Reply
  6. K.Cavan

    “…at this moment, Mr. Nkencho lunged forward & stabbed Garda A in the neck. As the other Gardai were attending to their fallen comrade, who tragically later died from his injuries, Mr. Nkencho escaped into the house, where he held three members of his family hostage for several hours, before Gardai entered the building in force & subdued him. Unfortunately, they were unable to prevent him stabbing all three of his relatives to death. Later that day, attendants at protests by the local immigrant population alleged that Gardai did not do enough to protect the Nkencho family, while tributes to Garda A, a young father of two, poured in….”
    At least there was no racism, eh?

    Reply
  7. gringo

    Lesson for today, guns solve nothing. A guard with a gun is just another gunman, and given their lack of training, these guards are a menace to society.

    Reply

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