After You [Updated]

at | 50 Replies

Tonight.

Earlier…

This afternoon.

Earlier…

The vaccine developed by AstraZeneca make up some 21% of the supplies needed to meet the HSE’s target

This morning.

HSE’s target of administering initial vaccine doses to 80 per cent of the willing adult population by June is under question if the The National Immunisation Advisory Committee (NIAC) rules out the use of the AstraZeneca jab over blood clotting fears.

Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly told RTÉ Radio One’s Morning Ireland:

“Certainly, at the moment, if the vaccines come in as they are forecast to do, then by the end of June, four in every five adults who wants a vaccine will be in a position to be offered one. It really is a great cause for hope, particularly on a day like today, where we’re taking a cautious but important step out of the pandemic.”

When asked whether this goal will remain achievable if recommendations surrounding the AstraZeneca jab change, he responded:

‘All I’m saying is, there’s not much point in gauging “what if NIAC say this or this or this”.

‘We’ll have word from NIAC very shortly, and when we do, if the operations do need to be adjusted, we can adjust them.”

Donnelly concedes possible changes to AZ roll-out could pose ‘big operational challenge’ (Extra.ie)

Meanwhile…

Up to 80 percent of people offered the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine In Sicily refuse it out of fears over its safety, according to the southern Italian region’s president Nello Musumeci.

Public confidence in the Anglo-Swedish jab has been badly shaken by reports linking it to rare, but potentially fatal, blood clots, and by conflicting recommendations on its use.

“In Sicily, there is an 80-percent refusal rate of the AstraZeneca vaccine. Every 100 people, 80 say no,” Musumeci said late Saturday in Catania, according to multiple media reports.

‘Up to 80 percent’ in Sicily refuse AZ vaccine: president (France24)

Meanwhile…

This morning.

Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly on Morning Ireland

Mary Wilson: “Minister, just finally, you’re on the front page of The Irish Times. ‘Donnelly queries exclusion from department analysis of tweets’. It said you looked for an analysis of tweets and retweets of you and your Twitter feed from the department, as compared to your constituency colleague, Simon Harris. You did this in January at a time when we had escalating Covid numbers. Why would you do that?”

Stephen Donnelly
: “I believe it was a piece of work that one of the team was looking at Mary. I haven’t seen the article but I believe it was one piece of work that somebody was looking at in a, in a, in a, you know, in a…”

Wilson: “The article says minister, the article says it was an analysis that you looked for and, on your behalf, the Secretary General of your department was contacting your publicity, your communications people, saying, you know, ‘we need to discuss this, there’s no reference to the minister, as you can see’. This was an analysis that you – was it an analysis that you wanted?”

Donnelly: “No, like I said Mary, it, I haven’t seen the article, it’s a piece of work that somebody did within the department. And it came up, presumably, in a FOI request, I’d have to take a look.”

Wilson: “Minister, Stephen Donnelly, thank you very much for joining us on Morning Ireland.”

What a clot.

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50 thoughts on “After You [Updated]

  1. Commenter #1

    More nonsense stats.

    “Certainly, at the moment, if the vaccines come in as they are forecast to do, then by the end of June, four in every five adults who wants a vaccine will be in a position to be offered one. It really is a great cause for hope, particularly on a day like today, where we’re taking a cautious but important step out of the pandemic.”

    Can Donnelly say for certain how many adults will want a vaccine between now and the end of June? If not, his 4 in every 5 pledge is meaningless.

    Reply
    1. eoin

      Donnelly’s one of the most loathsome toads in Irish politics. And that’s up against some mighty stiff competition I can tell you.

      Reply
      1. goldenbrown

        well I know someone who had the misfortune to have worked alongside him before he smelled that sweet sweet trough and moved over into politics

        by all accounts was as unpleasant as they come (as many seem to be in that particular environment)

        Reply
        1. Andrew

          He was a Management Consultant wasn’t he? What is that? Is that like a business analyst? I only have a vague idea of what that is.

          Reply
          1. Col

            It’s where you derive an advisable designated paradigm into transformative opportunity areas to be exploited during discovery phase exploration of forward-shift connection parameters.

            Understood? Good, you owe me €476,335

  2. U N M U T U A L

    The health role is historically a political poison chalice…
    and has been occupied by some of our googyist bad eggs…
    Trial by fire or fodder for the firing squad.
    Perspective is everything, means justify the end I suppose.

    Reply
  3. fluffybiscuits

    Lot of hysteria over AZ…unnecessary hysteria at that

    Roughly 0.0007% of those getting Astra Zenca develop a clot

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/astrazeneca-blood-clot-dilemma-europe/2021/04/05/a8091e4e-914f-11eb-aadc-af78701a30ca_story.html

    .12% develop clots due to the morning after pill (12 per 10,000)

    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38265865

    Morning After Pill is legal and has been for years

    Probably helps if you actually try to understand the things in context

    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38265865

    Reply
    1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

      I understand they are different types of clots – the AZ clot is nastier, with more people dying from it.

      If AZ was the only vaccine, it would be an acceptable risk but with better vaccines around (work better and no known issues), it is reasonable to prefer one of them.

      Reply
          1. U N M U T U A L

            @Bisted

            Hard to get to the truth when Donnelly and Co…
            are all talking out of both sides of their mouths…
            Inherently Tramapoline springs to mind.

      1. benblack

        Glad to hear you won’t be taking that particular vaccine, Daisy.

        You’ll be a ratlicker before you know it.

        Reply
          1. benblack

            Strange that there are no HIV variants, no?

            I’m a paranoid conspiraloon.

            Best of luck to you – roll the vaccine dice.

          2. Cú Chulainn

            Time might tell if this is just another conjured excuse to explain away the lack of vaccines.. Which is quite possibly what is really happening here..

          3. benblack

            As it has regarding the vaccine passport conspiraloon’s fantasies – which, as you very well know, are now a reality.

          4. GiggidyGoo

            @Daisy. Which conspiraloon/ratlicker deemed it advisable to limit the AZ to over 60’s, and why? Do blood clots not affect older people?

          5. Cui Bono?

            You don’t have to be a “paranoid conspiraloon” to decide not to take any covid vaccine.

            Most people are not at risk to covid so do not need it. You can check your risk here https://qcovid.org/Calculation

            Also, the long term risks to the vaccines are unknown and the trials don’t even end until 2023. They are only approved under emergency legislation. This is not paranoia or a conspiracy theory. It’s just the facts.

    2. Junkface

      This is all very silly stuff. I would take that vaccine right now if it was available. Why are the EU and many other countries singling out the AZ vaccine? Seems like the risk is within normal parameters for many other medicines.

      Reply
    1. Charger Salmons

      There are some side-effects I must admit.
      For years I have been declining Lady Charger’s entreaties to return to my youth and burst through the boudoir door wearing nothing more than my trusty leather gourd and a hint of Paco Rabanne shouting ” it’s showtime baby. ”
      A couple of days after my jab and I found myself barrelling into the marital love-nest with the leather gourd cutting into me on account of me being 15 pounds heavier since I last wore it and thinking, by jove, I’m reeling in the years.
      And I know it’s hard to believe but I find myself a tad smugger than usual knowing that whatever Covid-ridden scrote comes near me I’m not going to be pushing up daisies shortly thereafter.
      And you really,really,really don’t want to be catching that Covid bugger.

      Reply
  4. scottser

    ‘Up to 80 percent of people offered the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine In Sicily refuse it’
    i thought the sicilians were famous for making people offers they can’t refuse..?

    Reply
  5. ian-oG

    At this stage I don’t think I will bother with the vaccine, sure by the time they finally give it to all the friends and family of HSE staff, charities, hospital CEOs, politicians and everyone with any connection to those controlling the roll out I’d probably have caught it and either died or got my own antibodies for however long they might last.

    Reply
  6. Jason Bourne

    Only way this will end is if people start taking back inches. Show disregard for rules at every opportunity. Any freedom won back, refuse to give up ever again. Past year has been and will be shown to be one of the most embarssing in history of the world.
    People keep talking about following the science… Science is currently a catch all word for morons, who fail to understand difference between real world meaurable cause and effect vs unmeasurable predictions and results. Separation needs to be understood

    Reply
  7. Micko

    I’m open to correction here as I’m only putting it together from what I’ve read on wiki’s etc

    Even with the extremely rare clotting issue – is the AZ vax not a safer bet? For avoiding long term effects even perhaps?

    The AZ is a Viral Vector Vaccines and they are a pretty well established technology according to a lot of sources. .

    They use the full DNA of the virus in their delivery and are much hardier and don’t require super cold storage.

    Whereas the Pfizer and Moderna vax, use mRNA – so a single strand of the double helix.

    Which is a technology that has never been licensed for use in humans before Dec 2020.

    From the wiki on RNA vaccines:

    “ At the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, no mRNA drug or vaccine had been licensed for use in humans. In December 2020, both Moderna and Pfizer–BioNTech obtained emergency use authorization for their mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine

    So anyway, (maybe Alick can answer). Is AZ a safer bet?

    Asking for a pal who thinks she’s going to be coerced into getting it, as she’s a teacher in her 20’s. She doesn’t want it, but she also wants to stay in her job.

    Reply
    1. E'Matty

      Tell your friend she cannot be legally compelled to be vaccinated by her employer. Not even frontline nurses can be compelled. If they try, she’ll have a strong legal case against them. She will though likely come under strong pressure to get it. It’s really up to how strong she’s prepared to be in the face of any pressure applied but the law is on her side here. Just looking at the MHQ cases, it’s clear the State know they are on shaky legal ground in a number of areas now. I would actively encourage as many people as possible to bring actions where these restrictions have infringed on their Constitutional rights and freedoms. So many fail on proportionality. The passport office is ripe for litigation, just like the MHQ. Compelling or pressuring personnel into vaccination would be suicide in terms of liability. The courts just may provide the necessary avenue to push back on this massive overreach by the State.

      Reply
      1. Micko

        Cheers Matty. She’s very strong alright.

        She’s a SNA and was called to the Aviva for her jab last Tuesday ( I think. )

        She said she was grand.

        But she thinks she’ll be pressured into it eventually. :(

        Reply
      2. bisted

        …careful now Mattie…nobody can be compelled to take a vaccine…are you sure that message has been approved…you’ll be losing your ratlicker status…

        Reply
    2. alickdouglas

      Hi Micko: tricky question… The short answer is that I don’t think there’s enough data to tell a difference between the two yet. There are more doses of AZ followed up and AZ has been in use for longer. Hence the clotting issue is more prominent for AZ. If you assume the rate of clotting is 1/100k, then you get one datapoint for every 100k doses properly followed up (which is not the same as administered, because the vast majority of people don’t bother reporting symptoms).
      longer version… People say that adeno is less novel than mRNA, but I think that misses the point; they are both novel. Both focus on bringing genetic material into the cell and getting the cell to make the antigen. But this has historically been controversial.
      Both mRNA and adeno technology were dismissed by the big vaccine players some time ago (Pfizer, Sanofi, GSK, Merck). Merck was the original developer of adeno, but saw no future in it and literaly dumped everything over to Crucell, which became JnJ. Adeno at JnJ was quite literally living on borrowed time because of the R&D group’s inability to show impact vs a potentially profitable target. They did eventually succeed with phase III trials of Ebola. Smaller players like Vaccitech (who provide AZ tech) have less profit-minded management, and so were able to continue R&D with less pressure, but with smaller budgets coud only conduct smaller trials. Until the pandemic, the number of doses of adeno-vectored vaccines was pretty small. Globally something like 250k, the vast majority of those JnJ’s ebola candidate.
      Novartis had a fair size mRNA group, but that was downsized when they were bought by GSK. Crucell were the real believer in mRNA, followed by Moderna, but for both those companies the focus was on oncology, with infectious diseases as an obvious side interest. And neither had the budget for a large clinical trial. Last time I checked pre-pandemic there were about 55 trials of mRNA done, so I’d guess perhaps 10k subjects.
      In short, if you were in a large meeting of vaccine developers in 2019 and you revealed you were working on adeno or mRNA, the industry and regulatory participants would point and laugh (yes, personal experience).

      Reply
      1. U N M U T U A L

        Vaccitech, I laughed out loud when I saw their address!

        Vaccitech Limited
        The Schrödinger Building*
        Heatley Road
        The Oxford Science Park
        Oxford

        Reply
      2. Micko

        Thanks Alick. Always very informative.

        That’s mental about them both being so new and getting laughed out of the room. :$

        Some of the articles I read on Adeno, were saying “it’s a proven tech / delivery system” as one of its strengths. etc

        Hard to know what to do.

        Cheers.

        Reply
  8. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    If Donnelly is more worried about his Twitter than the health of people, he shouldn’t be a TD, let alone a minister.

    Reply

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