It Tolls For Thee

at | 98 Replies

Independent Clare TD Michael McNamara

“They are clearly throwing out figures to suit themselves, in an attempt to frighten the population.

“I’ve asked the HSE a question on the number of deaths where covid is the primary cause and where it is a secondary or contributory cause and I’m getting the run around on it so I’ve asked a Parliamentary Question. This evasion usually indicates they have something to hide, that there’s an agenda somewhere. The information is there, it is being passed to the HPSC on a regular basis.”

Michael McNamara, Independent TD for Clare and former chairman of the special oireachtas Covid committee,

Meanwhile….

“This has been raised by numerous families with loved ones that have passed away and it’s upsetting for them and it’s unfair. A lot of the public are raising this issue, we need clarity.

“I cannot understand how we do not have access to the factual data of who died directly of covid or with covid. The powers that be seem hell bent on attaching as many deaths as possible to covid. If the coroners are asking questions it is time to sit up and listen.”

Michael Collins, Independent TD for west Cork and a former undertaker.

Meanwhile…

“Certainly there are a proportion of our deaths where people died with Covid as opposed to because of Covid, but I think in time we can look at all this but it’s not that we haven’t been transparent in our reporting processes since early on in the pandemic,”

Deputy Chief Medical Officer Ronan Glynn.

Calls for clarity in the reporting of covid 19 deaths have emerged amid rising concerns over the accuracy of NPHET figures (Gript)

Meanwhile…

How many?

Covid response critic Ivor Cummins dissects the mainstream (in this case RTÉ’s Prime Time) analysis of Ireland’s covid death toll.

Earlier: The Darling Buds of May

Previously: Swewed

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98 thoughts on “It Tolls For Thee

  1. goldenbrown

    jesus Bodger

    starts off as the bones of a decent inquiring article

    but then ye just HAD to tack on some reference/linkage to that self important fupping no mark (but maybe that was the whole point, was it? attempting to create some cheap equivalence, wha)

    whatever. ye’re just unbelievable

    Reply
    1. U N M U T U A L

      ‘I Told You So’… t-shirts will be available for sale at the concession stand as you exit the arena… ;-)

      Reply
  2. Micko

    Fair play Michael McNamara and Michael Colins.

    I think what we can all take from this is that:

    Michael’s = good

    Ronan’s = bad

    A message we can all get behind.

    Reply
    1. Dell

      Serious question..do you honestly believe Ronan Glynn is some kind of evil genius trying to send the country into ruination or simply a guy who is giving advise to the best of his and the nphet teams ability based on information and figures from here and all over the world? Because I can not stress how crazy that attitude is , if it is what you believe.

      Reply
        1. Dell

          Spelling isn’t my forte. Would you like to address my point or are you just all soundbites? Also.. not your bro. Not a bro full stop.

          Reply
      1. Micko

        It’s a joke Dell

        Chill the beans man. Of course I don’t see him as a villain.

        I do think that the vast majority of medi-celebs that have come out of all of this are just the same as Ivor Cummins though.

        Sam McConkey, Tomas Ryan, Luke O’Neill etc. All the same as Cummins.

        A piece of paper doesn’t make you moral.

        Reply
        1. Dell

          So you think Ronan Glynn is immoral? Can you explain what you think he is doing that is immoral ? I agree with regards to Sam mcconkey, haven’t even heard of thomas ryan (and I’m guessing I’m better off) and luke o neill is beyond annoying even if I agree with at least some of his stances.

          Reply
        2. K. Cavan

          You’ll be hard put to find an inaccuracy to match McConkey’s prediction of 64,000 deaths in any of Cummins’s work, from what I’ve seen of it. No comments made anywhere can be compared to the deadly debacle of our care homes, where half the Irish victims died, despite it being common knowledge that respiratory viruses represent probably the single biggest danger to the elderly, bar their own Chronic conditions.

          Reply
          1. U N M U T U A L

            @ K cavan
            Don’t forget mcconkey predictions re: SwineFlu…
            ‘Even if you erred on the side of caution and estimated that one million people got it, and that one in every 1,000 of those people were to die, it is like four jets going down in Dublin airport.’
            Total deaths: 27!

      2. K. Cavan

        He’s neither, he’s a functionary, Ireland was always going to do what it was told by the WHO. That organisation is not an independent health authority, which is what it pretends to be & worse, what politicians have been forced to pretend it is, even though some, at least, must know it is a deeply corrupt, fatally compromised organisation, not fit for purpose, even before the Chinese got their claws into it.

        Reply
  3. gallantman

    I think these examples show how figures can be interpreted in different ways. The health authorities are always going to skew towards conservative and cautionary but it was up to politicians and the 4th estate to provide a corrective to this by continuing ask them difficult when/why/who/where questions to justify their position…..this hasn’t really happened for about 12 months now.

    Reply
    1. Micko

      Wasn’t there a famous thinker years ago who said that when politicians and the media start banging out the exact same message then it could be time to get out of that country.

      Can’t remember who said it though.

      Plus, where would you go to…

      Reply
    2. K. Cavan

      And it won’t be ever happening again, the Legacy Media have become too unpopular with the public to be financially viable. My guess as to where this is going is that the Legacy Media will become, like The Law, an ostensibly independent industry that’s so dependant on government & corporate handouts, so intertwined with the State & the Corporate world that it becomes a de facto arm of the establishment, as in Mussolini’s Corporate State model. The role of a Fourth Estate can now only be fulfilled by a handful of online offerings, Broadsheet included, although for some commenters on here, any deviation from total & complete agreement with a specific set of recieved opinions & complicit attitudes is constantly jumped on, hysterically. The inability to accept that any opinions other than one’s own are legitimate or acceptable is best described as Fundamentalism, a feature of non-democratic societies, theocracies & other neo-fascist governmental systems & incompatible with a healthy liberal democracy.

      Reply
          1. Dell

            I think you should read my comment again. I said the attitude was crazy, I did not call him crazy. For someone who corrects spellings , your comprehension is below par …. Bro

  4. Panty Christ

    The Brits report deaths with more transparency. Anyone that dies for whatever reason within 28 days of a positive covid test is chalked down as a covid death. However, the primary cause is also separately recorded.

    Reply
  5. Dell

    Hadn’t come on here in ages.. same rubbish, different month.. the same old record being spun and sure enough you are still putting up ivor Cummins links. Christ. I’m embarrassed for you at this stage.

    Reply
      1. Dell

        I’m sorry I don’t use a town crier or some kind of being you deem trustworthy to get news, but seriously … Ivor cummins is a self serving , over inflated twit and it really takes a massive suspension of even the most uncalabrated bs radar to listen to or read any of his tripe .

        Reply
        1. Micko

          Ivor is a tool. I agree.

          Michael McNamara is not.

          I notice you ignore the two elected officials casting doubts on the validity of deaths, to focus on Ivor.

          Subtle.

          Reply
          1. Dell

            I have no real problem with any line of questioning mcnamara has about deaths or any government decisions as I do think they are inept , at best. As a sole trader I’m all for us moving forward faster before I sink any further in debt. I also think that people who already have antibodies should not have to take the vaccine. However, when you pin the likes of ivor onto the end , the “reporting” loses all credibility and it is bodger, yet again pushing some kind of new world order rubbish. Plus mcnamara, as far as I know, has no problem with mask wearing or any other public health strategies that the other idiot has whinged about from the get go. Like a petulant, spoilt, entitled child.

          2. Micko

            If you read between the lines on McNamara, I feel he is very much against any restrictions. Even this vid where he makes a plea for his young daughter to be allowed to live a normal life.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5dXRbXdYqw&t=6s

            But he knows if he expressed that opinion he’d be thrown on the “Gemma” bus, as tends to happen with anyone who expresses even a smiggin of doubt about the strategy we’re STILL undertaking. Case in point in the comments below.

            And, since you brought it up.

            “that people who already have antibodies should not have to take the vaccine”

            What about those who just don’t want to take it?

          3. Dell

            I don’t think anyone should be forced to take any vaccine . But I also don’t think any country should have to accept anyone into their country who hasn’t got antibodies . As for mcnamara and the masks and whatnot, being against simple health strategies that , IF ADHERED to could have stopped a lot of the infections and deaths and had my business and 100s of others opened a long time ago , doesn’t make him anyone to look up to. So he’s whinging about the country being closed and yet doesn’t want to do anything to help stop the spread of a pretty serious virus. That doesn’t make him any less of a tool than ivor in my opinion.

          4. Micko

            Who’s not adhering to the restrictions?

            99% are doing it.

            If it’s 1% of people spreading it and it’s that virulent – what’s the point?

          5. Dell

            I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but there are still approximately 450 people testing positive a day so yeah, I’d say it’s pretty virulent and I can guarantee you that it’s more than 1% not adhering to the restrictions .

          6. Micko

            Really?

            On the 7 Jan 21 the positivity rate was at a high of over 22%

            It is now 2.6% (and has been around that for the last 4 weeks)

            What caused that?

            Considering our first vaccine wasn’t administered until 29th Dec 2020.

            A week later, the numbers started falling rapidly – A WEEK! What a miracle.

            https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/hospitals-icu–testing

            Worth pointing out that we’re still conducting over 100k tests a week. That’s a lotta possible false positive and negatives.

            Over 4.4 million test in Ireland have been conducted. 4.4 million!

            Almost enough for everyone in the audience. ;)

          7. Nigel

            ‘But he knows if he expressed that opinion he’d be thrown on the “Gemma” bus,’

            As opposed to ‘Back to Montrose with ye.’

            ‘What caused that?’

            Lockdown? Masks? Social distancing?

          8. Micko

            Masks became mandatory indoors on Aug 10th – nearly 10 months ago

            Have a look at the up and down graph of infections since then and come back to me Nidge ;)

  6. Gene Kerrigan

    Thanks, Broadsheet, for the years of fun and the info, the links and the occasional bravery.
    I’d rather not watch the slow decline towards full Gemma.
    Slán.

    Reply
    1. John Ryan

      Gene, very sorry to see you go. If it’s any consolation almost all Broadsheet columnists and contributors support your position on covid. I am solely responsible for posting opposing views as I believe we are witnessing a crime against humanity.

      Reply
      1. millie bobby brownie

        A most interesting public acknowledgement, John. Appreciated, even if its only me who thinks so.

        What’s Bodger’s opinion on the matter? ;)

        Reply
      2. Nigel

        ‘I believe we are witnessing a crime against humanity.’

        And you’re not talking about botched responses that lead to thousands of deaths, but to effective responses that have saved thousands of lives, and to the use of a medicine that will protect billions.

        Reply
        1. Steph Pinker

          ‘And you’re not talking about botched responses that lead to thousands of deaths, but to effective responses that have saved thousands of lives, and to the use of a medicine that will protect billions.’

          Jaysus, it’s like being back in Vegas during prohibition.

          Reply
          1. millie bobby brownie

            Oh so you were there back in the day, Steph? How fascinating.

            Certainly explains why you’re such a humourless dose. Hope that was passive aggressive enough for you, darling.

    2. A Lovely Horst

      But you remain and be part of the decline in journalism. Sinn Fein database anyone? That’s the news item of the century. You dare then to use Gemma O Doherty as a stick to beat Broadsheet with.
      Independent News and Media just wait for the next government handout. A very comfortable living for all.
      Not much even occasional bravery in your own stable Gene

      Reply
    3. K. Cavan

      Thanks, Gene, for all the years of being the only newspaper journalist in the country, now we have none. I suppose you can’t wade around for years in a slurry pit without stinking a bit. What a pathetic, petulant reaction.

      Reply
    4. Daisy Chainsaw

      I don’t blame you. Pimpin Youth Defence aka Gript because they happen to share your anticovid rhetoric is the worst example of “The enemy of my enemy…”

      Reply
      1. Anti Bots

        I’m with Gene on this one. If you support Gemma (which bodger did in spades but likes to ignore it now), and you have tonnes of half wits on here supporting the Gemma bots, then BS is a dead duck. Slan from me too.

        Reply
  7. eoin

    You would think politicians would be trying to downplay the figures to reduce fear and get things back to normal ASAP….even if there was a danger. Even if it meant lying about figures. Yet we see the opposite happening. More fear, more social damage, more economic hardship and debt. People should be fearful of the fact that nobody in power is planning for our future. It’s almost like it doesn’t matter.

    Reply
    1. K. Cavan

      Ah now, Eoin, stoppit, for goodness sake, you’ll scare the sheep who think that if everyone just performs the Covid rituals & signs up for the vaccine trials we’ll be “back to normal” in no time. They tuned in to the Covid BS but missed the part about “New Normal”. They’re probably planning summer holidays in Europe, music festival outings, etc, FFS, while Phase 2, the “Climate Emergency”, waits in the wings, ready for deployment.

      Reply
      1. Nigel

        Ah yes, as I think I remarked way back at the start of this, all the covid-skeptic bull, disastrous on its own terms, is just the prelude to new and exciting forms of climate change denial.

        Reply
        1. K. Cavan

          Yes, it’s so irritating when people, who’ve been listening to politicians constantly producing mountains of porkies, suddenly & inexplicably start to doubt those same lying scumbuckets when they tell us that this time the blokes who made outrageously overstated “computer modelled” predictions of Covid deaths are correct when they say cow farts will kill us all by ushering in Global Warming, Climate Change, Ice Ages, Greta Thunburg, whatever. It’s the duty of every citizen to accept every piece of incoherent gibberish uttered by our highly-paid incompetents, unquestioningly. Many of us still have Joe Jacob’s miracle anti-radiation pills safe in the bottom of a drawer, somewhere.

          Reply
  8. Jaded

    Its says a lot for Ireland’s commitment to free speech that Ivor Cummins continues to be free to say what he says without any undue official interference. That said, I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who takes him seriously. He might be right about some things but Ivor’s a guy who seems to be always right about everything. The dead giveaway in his rebuttal was his use of Sweden’s 2020 Covid experience. If he’d been wise he might have allowed for the possibility that other variables, not present in an Irish context, delayed the serious effects on Sweden until this year. But that’s just not part of his style. If the basic premise of scientific analysis is whether you can falsify your own propositions then by choosing to ignore Sweden’s recent experience in favour of last year’s he’s done his own cause a disservice. RTE presented a dumbed down piece. Ivor responded on their level. But those with experience of what has transpired elsewhere would point out that, whatever view you may hold about lockdowns, if nothing is done to stop the exponential increase there will be large scale loss of life. Ireland didn’t do quarantine. It didn’t do serious contact tracing. Its still hasn’t addressed the difference between medical masks and “face coverings”. How can one even comment on the vaccination program? Ivor might be right that in a properly organized Covid response a lockdown is futile. But in the hopelessly incompetent Irish response one has to allow for the possibility that the lockdown was actually the difference between life and death. This assertion is unquantifiable because its hard to think of anywhere that’s demonstrated more incompetence, bureaucratic inertia, slavish servility to commercial interests and docile compliance with flawed international authority figures than Ireland. People respond to Ivor because, while what he’s saying is obviously flawed and one-sided, his larger theme of the utter incompetence of the authorities is hard to refute. The people most likely to buy his spiel are probably also the most vulnerable. And while he may believe his own argument, the promotion of his ideas on Broadsheet suggests that you do too. Consider the vulnerable and easily led. If his argument is flawed it may still be compelling to some and if it is believed will lead to serious consequences. Gene Kerrigan has a long history of calling authority figures to account. When you lose people like him because you are promoting Cummins then you are diving into the cesspool of conspiracy theorists and flat earthers.

    Reply
    1. Micko

      Sorry? What’s been Sweden’s recent experience? Cases and deaths up a bit yeah?

      But, still 24th in deaths per million – in Europe alone ;) (31st Globally)

      Behind Hungary, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Belgium, Slovenia, Italy, UK, Poland, Spain, Portugal, France, Romania etc.

      You get the point.

      Reply
      1. millie bobby brownie

        You know, it’s funny but my father in law says otherwise. According to him there is a lot of unhappiness with how the pandemic has been handled over there – it has done some real damage to their relationships with the other Scandinavian nations, for example. While the numbers are not as high as other nations, the people are not happy.

        But sure, what would he know, he only lives there.

        Reply
        1. Micko

          Yep. I’ve pals in Sweden that say the opposite.

          But sure, they’re both just opinions.

          I prefer the numbers to show the proof.

          Reply
        2. millie bobby brownie

          You always have an answer, don’t you?*

          *this is rhetorical question and you’re not actually obliged to answer.

          Reply
          1. Micko

            Well, even if we don’t always agree, at least we’re both always civil Millie.

            Unlike some of the monsters on here ;-)

            Hope all is well with ya

      2. K. Cavan

        I just checked their stats, no idea what Jaded’s referring to, not particularly different from ours, for example, the graph’s a bit pointier, maybe. Then again, the reference to “official interference” & it’s absence indicating a commitment to freedom of speech is a bit weird, too.

        Reply
        1. Jaded

          The Swedes changed tack towards the end of last year. Cummins argument implies that the Swedes have continued to operate on the same basis. So what I am referring to is the big fall in Swedish Covid numbers after new, non Tegnel approaches were introduced. But referring to this would undermine the proposition that those new measures to restrict the circulation of the virus have no effect. What, the Swedes are now doing much better? Could it be because they are now doing something different to what they were doing in Cummins much lauded 2020 approach?

          Reply
    2. GiggidyGoo

      Ivor Cummins. Someone wrote here a few weeks ago something on the lines that if something is true and endorsed by Cummins, then it’s not true because it was endorsed by him. This long post is bordering on that mentality.

      Reply
        1. GiggidyGoo

          I’m ok Millie, thank you for asking. And yourself and your little one? Really really sorry about last week.

          Reply
          1. millie bobby brownie

            Absolutely no need for an apology, Giggs. All part of the rough and tumble. Madam is on the mend and doing much better, thank you :)

  9. K. Cavan

    So, an article about criminal activity surrounding the issuing of death certs? Ah sure, let’s attack Ivor Cummins, not on the basis of facts, that’s his home turf, just go for a pathetic Ad Hominem that imagines an Irish Legacy Media where everyone works for free & has no ego, shoehorn in a bit of a rant about Gemma (yay!!), the New World Order (shhh!), litter the place with falacious whining nonsense, anything but deal with the fact that the government is involved in the falsification of death certs, so they can broadcast Fake News into their citizens’ homes then use the fear generated by these transparent falsehoods to terrorise their citizens, destroy their lives, livelihoods & mental & physical health, all at the behest of Bill Gates & his WHO. Any Government that is so incompetent & dishonest should face severe scrutiny & heads should roll but there’s a wall of silence in the Legacy Media & when it’s noted on a site like this it’s toys out of the pram stuff from the world’s worst debating team & an attempt to break the record for the quantity of gibberish that can be crammed into an incoherent rant. To convince yourself to believe lies, even when those lies are exposed, is inexcusable except on the basis of reduced mental capacities. You are playing your part in the destruction of this country & a whole lot else, besides, pat yourselves on the back & move on.

    Reply
  10. bertie blenkinsop

    Remember when Broadsheet was like an Irish Popbitch?
    Irreverent, funny as hell, a joy to log on to and no place for the faint hearted.
    I’m a big admirer of John Ryan, so it saddens me to say it but this place has gone to the dogs since Covid, in the most part due to just a couple of commenters let run riot.
    Don’t @ me, if you are one of the ones I’m talking about I couldn’t give a shIte what you think anyway :)

    Reply
    1. White Dove

      Broadsheet is far better than Popbitch. Your vision was just too limited. People who are ahead are never appreciated until afterwards. Keep going, Broadsheet.

      Reply
    2. Steph Pinker

      I’ve never heard of Irish Popbitch or any other Popbitch, in fact it’s an offensive use of words with connotations, but you’ve also mentioned going to the dogs – dy’a lake dawgs?

      Open a kennel for strays if you’re so in love with those you couldn’t give a shlte about anyway :)*

      * Passive aggressive bot recognised and identified.

      Reply
  11. K. Cavan

    Glynn’s comment that “we can look at all this” is clearly disingenuous, the Death Certs are done, the bodies will not be exhumed. Even if those directing the Covid Operation allow any Enquiry, it will be the normal whitewash engaged in by Irish politicians & media for decades. Despite the fact that the PCR test is usually incorrect, the fact that 70% of those who died were never judged suitable to be placed under Critical Care regimes due to age and/or infirmity & that the Median age of Covid victims was a year & a half more than our life expectancy, we put children in masks & will start killing them with experimental gene therapy, as soon as we get the chance. Excusing this as incompetence is a great get-out but it’s not plausible, we were just following orders from our masters. That absolute shambles of an analysis on RTE, with the Oceanographer & his mate clearly choosing their time period so as to maximise mortality figures, is transparent propaganda, Cummins pointed this out, annoying only those intent on hiding the truth, at all costs. It’s not impossible that we’ll be an outlier but worldwide, Respiratory Infections in 2020 should be exactly where you would expect them to be, once other illnesses don’t deviate too much, 4th biggest cause of death & as soon as the CSO gets around to releasing the Q4 figures, we’ll see the real effect of this Killer Cold in Ireland.

    Reply
        1. A Lovely Horst

          That would be very handy for the bog that is Mayo and it’s fine upstanding ass licking citizens.

          Reply
  12. V aka Frilly Keane

    If I may Jaded
    This assertion is unquantifiable because its hard to think of anywhere that’s demonstrated more incompetence, bureaucratic inertia, slavish servility to commercial interests and docile compliance with flawed international authority figures than Ireland.

    Is the best and most honest synopsis of our Pandemic year n’ a bit
    anyone is going to find

    I’m not getting into the over and backs here, so save swapping out your logins or checking your avatars girls
    But a few things to remind yourselves

    Independent Politicians will say and do anything to make sure they are heard, and noticed enough to be picked up by local media, it is all, and always will be about getting re-elected
    Whether tis asking questions about reported deaths or hiring buses to bring Constituents up to NHS NI
    Showboating
    I’ll give McNamara his due – he is most definitely a cut above most members of the current Oireachtas
    But he’s still not the rockstar some of ye – well by the looks of the settlers here lately, most of ye
    think his is
    Collins is a hack, he’s only there for the mileage, food n’drink; the only thing that separates him and Danny Healy Rae is a County Line

    No surprise Mr Cummins didn’t open his trap about Sweden doing an about turn
    As Anders Tegnell himself said “Judge me in the End”

    Yer alright, I knew exactly who we were dealing with from a long ways off
    Gawd love yis
    Maybe he’ll start selling shampoo – get yer great Presidential Hero to bless it
    And brand it as a 5G barrier and Make Ireland Holy Again while yer’ all at it

    He’s got loads of customers – and fair …ks t ‘him
    He saw an opening – he’s a savage tellysales guy, he knows what he’s good at
    You have to admire him
    in fairness

    Reply
  13. Jaded

    Another interpretation might be that many things cannot be quantified. So if you have a quantification bias its quite natural to focus on the data that you have even if its fundamentally meaningless when used interpretively because it doesn’t factor in many significant variables… The possibility that Ivor is simply working with the data and not gaming the credulity of his audience has to be considered.

    Reply
    1. Cian

      Ivor is making an absolute fortune out of Covid.
      Between youtube views, his patreon page, and a kickstarter for his documentary it is easily running into many hundreds of thousands.

      Reply
      1. A Lovely Horst

        Reid and Holohan are also making hundreds of thousands from Covid too and they don’t have the expense of their own web presence.

        Reply
  14. A Lovely Horst

    I’ve a higher opinion of myself. But do you know something? Ivor Cummins would wipe the floor with people whose sole goal in life is adoration. Not looking at anyone in particular

    Reply
  15. A Lovely Horst

    I’ve a higher opinion of myself. But do you know something? Ivor Cummins would wipe the floor with people whose sole goal in life is pursuing adoration. Not looking at anyone in particular

    Reply

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