The Right To Call For The Removal Of Rights


This morning.

Via Irish Times Letters:

Across the sea in the UK, a recent Employment Appeal Tribunal found that having “gender critical” views is protected in law. This case was brought by a woman, Maya Forstater, as she was defending the view that biological sex is real after losing her job.

After the judgment, Ms Forstater’s solicitor made a statement “institutions that might have been expected to support women’s political organisation have been almost without exception conspicuous either by their absence, or by their active hostility”.

He brought a spotlight on Amnesty Ireland: “Amnesty Ireland went furthest of all by putting its name to a statement calling for people with Gender Critical beliefs to be ‘denied legitimate political representation’. Even typing that sentence feels implausible. Maya Forstater’s success demonstrates the irrelevance of these institutions. They are at risk of redundancy”.

But Amnesty Ireland was not alone in calling for women with gender critical views to have their right to representation removed.

Our very own National Women’s Council of Ireland also signed the letter calling for our rights to be removed, as did many other organisations.

The NWCI is in receipt of State funding. Does a State-funded body really have the right to call for the removal of rights from women who believe in the reality of biological sex?

Does the NWCI really have the right to abandon women because they do not share the same beliefs as the NWCI?

Sarah Anderson,
Co Wicklow.

Irish Times Letters

Previously: Hear Me Roar

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95 thoughts on “The Right To Call For The Removal Of Rights

  1. Kim Cardassian

    “Group of gobplops who deny the rights of other people get uppity when their own rights are challenged”

  2. george

    So you can quote an alleged statement in a national newspaper without giving any details of what that statement is? Where is this ‘denied legitimate political representation’ quote taken from? Not from any statement signed by Amnesty or NCWI.

    It is shameful for this to be published by the Irish Times and broadsheet should not republish without critical analysis.

    The correct quote is: “We call on media, and politicians to no longer provide legitimate representation for those that share bigoted beliefs, that are aligned with far right ideologies and seek nothing but harm and division.”

    1. NobleLocks

      The correct quote is: “We call on media, and politicians to wake up to the fact that the wants of Autogynephile males have infected society at the instutional level , through virtue-signalling useful idiots like this one prompting him and his ilk to say that everyone who disagrees with their ‘cuckoo in the nest’ ideology is a ‘bigot’ and ‘far right’ to silence them and stop discussion.”

      There fixed it for you.

      Of course, everyone who isn’t on the virtue-spiral is a gobsh*te these days is “far right” aren’t they lol
      I have to hand it to you, this is cry bullying at it’s finest….

      1. Junkface

        It’s about silencing all opposition to their beliefs. It’s the height of intolerance.

        We can all see what happens when an ideology gets completely intolerant by the actions of the CCP of China in Hong Kong. People, students, journalists who voted democratically all of their lives have now been thrown in jail or forced to flee. Authoritarianism must be pushed back. This is a new religion of sorts, more like a cult to me. It relies on the masses staying silent to progress.

        1. Nigel

          Approving of a comment that deliberately distorts and lies about the quote while lambasting liberals for being alarmed by that sort of behaviour? Shame on you.

          1. Clampers Outside

            Of course it is deliberate. It reads clearly as a deliberate satirising of the stupidity of the original.

          2. Junkface

            Shame on you Nigel for encouraging authoritarianism.

            Please read some history on far left ideologies and authoritarianism, once you have you will recognize the signs very fast.

            I certainly don’t want to persecute Trans people, live and let live. I will address them any way they want. Everyone deserves love and acceptance. I will not however support changing terminology with regards to legal rights, or changing anything about Scientific knowledge, just to fit their new ideology. That’s really dangerous and quite insane.

          3. Nigel

            Junk, it might be more appropriate to read up on the discrimination and persecution of LGTBQ people, don’t you think? All of this directly echoes the old scares about the ‘gay agenda,’ its threats to children, the family, sexuality, education, science, politics and civilisation itself. Lots of reasonable people like you thought that reasonable points were being made then, too. It’s the same playbook adapted for the connected age.

          4. Clampers Outside

            The threats to children have been proven in courts, a number of independent reports and the poor care that produces the threat exposed on investigative reports by the BBC and tens of whistleblowers from Tavistock/ GIDS.
            This has nothing to do with ignorance and bigotry of the past. I take that from many gay commenter who grew up in that environment and see what is happening today.

            There are numerous other points that differentiate today from then.

          5. Nigel

            Except the ‘concern’ about the care for young trans people is ideologically driven by a transphobc movement. Trans people have been complaining for decades about the quality of care they receive and their access to it. Now you’re using a couple of cases to destroy what little they have. Even a dupe like you has to know that transphobia exists and is endemic and that any negative claims about trans health care HAVE to be treated carefully and reforms have to be dictated by their needs NOT the demands of people who view them as dangerous freaks.

            Like I said. Updated.

          6. Clampers Outside

            It’s not a couple of cases, it is many and growing.

            Not to mention… the reports;
            the investigations;
            the whistleblowers;
            the demonstrated poor care;
            the ruling by courts of law that the drugs are experimental;
            the lies told by TRAs about reduced suicidality by putting gender dysphoric children on them – it actually increases; and this was known by Tavistock for over 10 years as they sat on the study and refused to publish it in full and stated the opposite of the research findings (they lied recklessly!) it showed the reduced suicidality;
            the ignoring of the natural course of dysphoria to result in desistence in 70%+ of kids;
            the lack of proper mental health investigations;
            the shotgun approach to diagnosis with 2 hour consultations with biased psychiatrists;
            the “affirmation” approach to gender dysphoria seen as the ONLY treatment;
            the gender “specialist” psychiatrist who was recorded admitting advising kids to threaten suicide if they didn’t get what they want;
            the case against Tavistock for its head instructing staff NOT to keep the Child Welfare Officer up to date, and thus endangering children….

            And on and on and on it goes…

            And ALL of the above you are fighting to be kept quiet, to brush it under the carpet, and then claim you have the welfare of gender dysphoric individuals at heart…


            Most certainly not in defending all of the above failings and your fight against improved care of patients.
            Most certainly.

            And that’s just off the top of my head…. There is so much more wrong with what you are supporting.

          7. Clampers Outside

            You are the ONLY person in these discussions that ever speaks of trans persons as “freaks” or any other derogatory comment.

            The ONLY one.

            That’s a fact!

          8. Clampers Outside

            Demands for change are not coming from those you claim.

            They are coming from those who have been through the “care”. They are coming from detransitioners, people whom you have in previous comment threads dismissed ffs! Dismissed the experiences of those that have had the poor care. No wonder you invent the persons making demands when you dismiss those actually making the demands.

          9. Nigel

            Now you’re being dishonest, rather than obtuse, and not just about me. I don’t blame anyone for NOT reading comments by Noble Locks or K Cavan, but they’re there, and you have replied to a few of them.

          10. Clampers Outside

            I am not being dishonest, nor obtuse. No one on here ever makes the derogatory comments that you make, even if you make them in an attempt at hyperbole or whatever. No one but you does it.

    2. Micko

      “bigoted beliefs, far right ideologies, harm and division.”

      These AI lads seem to think that anyone who has a difference of opinion with them is akin to some sort of Dr Evil type character.

      Very silly stuff altogether.

      Now, where did I leave those sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads…?

      1. Nigel

        You’d think the long experience of the AI in identifying and challenging authoritairanism and bigotry would lead people without that experience to examine their assumptions, but apparently not.

        1. Clampers Outside

          You’d think that, with the supposed experience, but it’s demonstrably not the case.

          1. Nigel

            I haven’t seen it demonstrated. Neither have you, of course, but you’re easily led.

          2. Nigel

            You were told it was there and lo, it was there. They even included the bit that wasn’t actually in the letter just in case you needed further reassurance.

    3. K. Cavan

      So you think these organizations can be given a free pass on being neo-fascists because they use derogatory language to describe those who believe scientific facts? Your letter is shameful & your own neo-fascist views are anathema to anyone who believes in Human Rights. Amnesty were long-ago ideologically captured by US Progressive Wokery, they are Racist, Sexist Science-deniers, no matter how much mis-directed personal affection you feel towards them. Anyone who’s dedicated to organizations rather than the principles they might’ve once stood for is a Corporatist who is easily diverted into Fascism, as you’ve clearly been. Wake up, george before you end up like Woody Allen in Zelig, applauding Hitler at Nuremberg, in your Nazi Uniform. Abandon Amnesty now, they’re gone over to fascist corporatism, history will not be kind to them or their supporters.

      1. Clampers Outside

        The Maya Forstater case does prove this authoritarian/fascist streak among the woke.
        They think their belief in gender woo-woo should be protected but not the belief that sexis immutable.
        Thankfully the UK High Court with support of the UK’s Equality and Human Rights Commission saw fit, the correct reading of the law, to set the record straight.

    4. Clampers Outside

      The legimate quote is ridiculous.

      It’s now a “far right ideology” and a “bigoted belief” to believe in the biological sex of male and female.

      JFC the gobbledegook out of that.

      And in the same breath, proclaiming infinite genders, but for some reason when it comes to transition, there are only 2 to choose from.
      I say again, gobbledegook.

      The original letter can be found here –

      1. Junkface


        It’s essential that our understanding of biology and Reality is not warped to fit this new agenda. There is no such thing as a spectrum when talking about biological sex. There is male and female. This affects all future medicine production for women and men.

        1. Clampers Outside

          I beg to differ… sarcastically…
          Anyway, there’s a commenter of renown on here who used the condition of intersex not only argue for sex as a spectrum but to make the argument for gender as a spectrum.

          Now, that IS bigotry.

          1. Clampers Outside

            You have obstinate and unreasonable attachment to your belief in gender theory, and in particular you express prejudice against those who do not align with your belief.

            I think that about covers it.

          2. Clampers Outside

            In the example above, one of many, the group not alignined with your belief are persons with DSDs, ie, intersex persons.

          3. Nigel

            I actually know feck all about gender theory, but I don’t feel especially threatened by arguments that gender is a spectrum. Trans men are men, trans women are women has always seemed to me to be the safe, fair and reasomable foundation for how trans people should be treated and no-one has ever said anything or shown me any reason to think there’s anything wrong with it, but I have every reason to suppose that people who refuse to accept it are wrong, but misguided, or hateful. That’s a spectrum too, in case you’re having trouble following, and an entire movement devoted to attacing, undermining, marginalising and demonising trans people? I have no trouble classing them as bigots.

            ‘Showing prejudice to people who don’t share your beliefs’ is such a dumb, lazy non-statement by people who don’t know what prejudice actually is.

            You, clearly, do not know what my beliefs are, despite my making them clear over and over again. I have no idea what your muddled thinking and lack of reading comprehension have made out of whatever comments I’ve made concerning trans and intersex people, but I’m sure you defeat it easily with irrefutable logic in your head.

          4. Clampers Outside

            For your clarification…

            You show your prejudice in your preconceived opinions of those who disagree with you.
            Opinions that are clearly straight out of gender theory – self ID, infinite gender spectrum, gender identity, etc etc. A theory you admit you don’t even understand.

            (Your desire for persons with trans issues to be treated with respect is shared on civil issues (but differ on access to sex segregation matter), but it is largely in the above clarification where we differ.)

          5. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            trans men are trans men, trans wemon are trans wemon, my two cents, a third new category, now everyone’s happy ?

          6. Nigel

            For me, neither a scientist nor a religionist, it’s a social and political convention that makes life easier for everyone except people who hate trans people.

          7. Clampers Outside

            If it is a social/political convention and not a sex fact, then why demand access to sex segregated spaces…. Eh?

          8. Micko

            That’d be a solution we could all agree with Janet.

            A third category – that’s perfect!

          9. Nigel

            ‘(but differ on access to sex segregation matter)’

            If you’re going to ignore the threat of transphobia, often manifesting as violence, while satisfying yourself that it is correct to deny trans women access to women’s spaces, then you are not treating trans people with respect. I suspect this campaign is making women’s spaces more unsafe for trans women, anyway, meaning you’ll effectively get your way by default, at no cost to yourself, but at a heavy one to trans women.

          10. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            I have no probs with unisex toilets or pool changing rooms, showers, quiet common in Paris, I don’t however want to get in a boxing ring with a trans woman or try to out race a trans woman over a sprint, long distance it’s her loss ;)

          11. Clampers Outside

            I do not ignore transphobia, it is horrendous.

            But I know what you do ignore. You ignore the safeguarding of children. You ignore it when you scream “think of the children” sarcasticallly. You ignore it when you compare (incorrectly) the fight for gay recognition to today’s TRAs. You ignore it when you say there is no issue with gender-neutral (a stupid phrase… It’s ‘sex-neutral’) toilets and make sarcastic comments about going to the loo….

            You ignore the dangers when you ignore some of those who campaign for greater access to children through Gender-neutral toilets. You ignore it when you say these things don’t happen…


            I’ll leave this example here…. but you, you can just ignore it.

            June 2019:
            “Gender-neutral toilets trial backed after call from Tory councillor”

            ….. And a little time later, the same councillor…..

            April 2021:
            “Ex-councillor David Smith to stand trial accused of child sex charges after long delay”

          12. Nigel

            You can’t possibly be serious. I haven’t even MENTIONED gender neutral toilets. Somehow you think because I think trans women should have access to women’s bathrooms, I’m okay with child predators? Safety issues for trans women are not somehow interchangeable with safety issues for children. That’s just changing the subject. But, on that subject, because of the connection you link to, connection, gender neutral toilets are a nefarious plot by child predators? Are you even listening to the malicious stupidity coming out of your own brain?

          13. George

            Clampers obsessions with Trans people is bizarre. Are you afraid that someone’s coming for your willy? They aren’t

      2. Nigel

        Of course it is. It’s a pretext for persecuting trans people. You’re so bloody gullible, and not very bright.

          1. Nigel

            Oh, are the new defenders of women’s rights going to start getting stricttly prescriptive about who can and who can’t be considered a woman, or a man? That’ll go well, and won’t be authoritarian at all. Strip searches for women who present as supiciously masculine at the bathrooms, eh?

          2. Clampers Outside

            Nigel, seriously…. You act as if the definition of man and woman was you preferred one, and that the sex based definition that has been around for millennia is a new one. You even call it “authoritarian” and then invent some hyperbolic horror show anecdote to “prove” your point.

            Do you even know how absolutely ridiculous you sound…. :/

          3. Clampers Outside

            He has said yes to this in the past.

            I pushed for clarification.
            It was then understood that a Female to Male trans person in Nigel’s understanding is a “man”. As he has pointed out above in comments today.

            This is regardless of whether the person has retained all of their female sex physiology. They are a considered a man. And yes, Female to Male trans persons have given birth, and Nigel views this as a man giving birth.

            He went on at the time to say that he believes in the future medical science will make it possible for biological males to carry a child to birth.

            I remember this stuff because it’s off the wall.


            For clarification, imo, a Male to Female trans person is a trans man. This person is still female sexed as sex is immutable. And when a transman gives birth, it is still the female sex of the human species that gives birth.

          4. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            I can’t even imagine what that must feel like mentally for someone who does not accept a female identity to start with, to grow a child and all the discomfort and adjusting to physical and emotional changes is hard enough when you accept your reality as a woman, how do you remain sane if you don’t ?

          5. Clampers Outside

            One cas of a trans man who gave birth resulted in their demand in court to be named as the father on the birth cert. They lost their case.

          6. Nigel

            Jaent – support and senstitivty might help, but does not always seem to be forthcoming.

            Clampers – I don’t think progress, acceptance and generosity of spirit should be restrained by whatever it is that you find ‘off the wall.’

          7. Nigel

            I don’t care what absolute value you arbitrarily award sex. Trans men are men, trans women are women.

          8. Clampers Outside

            Arbitrarily…. *ROFL*

            LOL! You really are down the rabbit hole.

            I look forward to the next time you “correct” someone about some aspect of science so I can link to this postmodernist nonsense claim… Bleedin’ gas stuff! :)

    5. Junkface

      Learn to pronounce

      See definitions in:

      willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one’s own; open to new ideas.
      “they have liberal views on divorce”
      relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.

      free and easy

      a supporter of policies that are socially progressive and promote social welfare.
      a supporter of a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.
      “classical liberals emphasized the right of the individual to make decisions, even if the results dismayed their neighbours or injured themselves”

      I don’t think current lefties really understand the meaning of words anymore.

  3. NobleLocks

    If fighting for the rights of Women and Children above the wants of Autogynephile men and their dismissive, fawning, supine, virtue signallers makes me a gobpoo, then I guess I’m a gobpoo and bloody proud of it.

    When rights clash, we either talk or fight. The AGP males via their mouthpieces in PinkNews and Stonewall chose to fight, and now their chickens are coming home to roost

    What that Moron Colm O’Gorman did was disgusting and he has no legitimacy left. Same goes for any organization that had the clucking temerity to think they had a right to remove democracy because observable, demonstrable fact is more important to us than the whinges of the twittler youth, cry bullies.

  4. eoin

    The vast majority of people are grounded in reality and know that there are only two genders. Anyone who thinks otherwise is mentally ill. But, as long as they can function within society there are no issues. Once they start insisting on special rights or legislation they are no longer considered functional within normal society. And that’s a dangerous place to be. If this madness continues we will end up back where we started, jailing gays and institutionalizing transgender and gender non binary people.

    1. NobleLocks

      Nigel will NEVER touch this, the unholy damage Autogynephiles do to the laughably transparent “trans” argument is just hilarious.

      We should ALWAYS answer every “won’t someone PLEASE think of the trans” with “Who? You mean the Autogynephiles?”

  5. kerryview

    To be perfectly honest, I do not have a clue what this discussion is all about. There. Said it.

    1. U N M U T U A L

      ’tis what’s known as,
      The War on Drags…
      It’s a broadsheet bi-weekly event! ;-)

      1. Micko

        Was going to suggest we move it to a daily event, but my wife is already threatening me with a divorce if I spend anymore time on BS

        1. U N M U T U A L

          I here ya… We’re off to the park to hurl old veg at the goats… A larping version of the BS comments section! :-D

  6. newsjustin

    I was going to say that this is “classic Amnesty (Ireland)” but its not. It’s “continuity Amnesty.” They will ditch their once fundamental concern for free and open societies in a heartbeat it there’s a bandwagon to get on.

  7. Nigel

    Wow. This is where we’re going, is it? I’d almost have preferred a segue into climate change denail/delay. This is just ugly and vindictive.

    Why would AI support a movement and related organisations devoted to removing rights and protections from a vulnerable minority? Opposing groups like that is literally their remit. Appeals for their support, or criticisng their opposition, is pure mendacity. Congrats. You’ve sided with the reactionaries, the profoundly conservative, the paranoid and the cynical exploiters of faked-up fearmongering and bigotry. Disgusting.

    1. Clampers Outside

      What removal of what rights?

      The only rights I see being lost are women’s sex segregated rights.

      I’ve clarified what I see. Can you do the same?

      1. Nigel

        ‘women’s sex segregated rights.’

        It kind of makes sense that you’d stupidly embrace a twisted form of ‘feminism’ driven not by equality, diversity or solidarity, but ‘sex segragation,’ aimed not at structural misogyny and inequality, but at one group arguably more historically marginalised and at risk from structural, casual and violent bigotry than cis women.

        1. NobleLocks

          Stop this horsespoo.

          On average 2 women a week are killed in the UK. If your victim oylmpics winners were bumped off at even 5% of that rate, there’d be none left by Xmas. In the history of the Irish state there hasn’t been a single murder of a trans id’d male or female, same for Scotland, same for Wales, we have to go back to 2013 to find a murder in England that even has that aspect to it yet you STILL repeat this crap.

          When are you going to start telling the truth?

          1. Clampers Outside

            When are you going to start talking facts, and not invented victimhood activist propaganda about death rates.

            Back to my clarification.

            Can you not make yours please.

  8. Proud Mary

    Ah, the usual Irish Times dog whistle “What is a woman?”. During Pride week. On top of the deluge of their channeling the “we didn’t know about the GRA, it must be repealed, gender neutral toilets are bad” narrative.

    Perhaps Roisin Ingle will weigh in again with support for British Terfs again?

    The question must be asked – why is the Irish Times providing a one-sided platform for transphobes?

    1. NobleLocks

      I thought pride was to do with people who are same sex attracted ? What the hell have Trans brain-melting nonsense got to do with same sex attraction? Sure most of them are Autogynephiles anyway.

      And as for your “trans lives at risk” goop. Here’s the scoop, the 40% figure is a lie perpetuated by Mermaids in the UK. It is based on a figure from Brazil where young favella boys are forcibly trans’d to be used as prostitutes for gay men, who in a deeply macho culture, cannot be seen as gay. Those young boys are used up and spat out and they commit suicide at an alarming rate.

      Also, long term use of Luperon, everyone’s favourite end of life prostate cancer drug, lyingly known as ‘puberty blockers’ by TRA’s continues to cause sucidial ideation in young people since it was first used as a drug to calm sex offenders.

      Mary you have a long way to catch up, the old deceptions have long since been exposed. And as for your disgusting transphobes comment, grow up, the adults are in the room now and things are going to change. The beacon is just another example of an institutionally captured organization and is as worthy of respect as a genduurrrr recognition certificate.

  9. NobleLocks

    When are you going to start being a decent human being?

    A slur is not an argument Nige, do keep up.

    1. NobleLocks

      TERF eh?

      You do know that the instant it goes to far for you Daisy that they’ll turn on you, don’t you? They have done it to everyone else, you will be no different. Just read what Solzhenitsyn wrote about the ones in the camps who thought there was a mistake and they’d be let out as soon as the mistake was realised…. they won’t give a damn about you and will turn on you in an instant.

    2. NobleLocks

      Mind you, you’ll also find that being a TERF ain’t that bad… At least you don’t have to put up with the whinges of the NAAD’s


      1. NobleLocks

        1/ BREAKING: Explosive testimony on Day 4 of Sonia Appleby’s case Employment Tribunal against GIDS.

        – Clinician Dr Churcher Clarke gave evidence (witness summoned) that Dr Polly Carmichael, head of GIDS, told her *not* to go to Sonia Appleby with safeguarding concerns.

        And women & children have nothing to worry about ?

  10. curmudgeon

    “The NWCI is in receipt of State funding”

    It actually provides 90% of its total funding!

Comments are closed.

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