134 thoughts on “Thursday’s Papers

    1. Jdawgs

      The seagull is the brains behind what goes on in Whitehall. He chairs the COBRA meetings I’ve heard.

      1. Cú Chulainn

        A close relative of the psycho seagull (some say they are one of the same) so he/she (no one is sure which) fits right in. Total messer of course.. could well be just winding up the sasnach about the football..!!

  1. newsjustin

    That couple’s story is tragic. Their child would be alive if the 8th Amendment was not removed.

      1. newsjustin

        Unfortunately, this is a fact. Irish people voted to remove the constitutional protection of the right to life of the unborn. This was the fundamental fact in this case.

        1. Cian

          @newsjustin You are right, their child would (most likely) be alive if the 8th Amendment was not removed (or if the doctors had followed the correct procedures).

          General Public is also right, you are scoring cheap points off misery.

          It isn’t black and white. There is a strong arguement that Savita Halappanavar would be alive if the 8th Amendment had been removed earlier (or if the doctors had followed the correct procedures).

    1. Bitnboxy

      Nonsense Newsjustin.

      What befell this poor couple as reported elsewhere was a rather elementary failure to wait before the final chromosomal test before making the decision. They have even sought a meeting with the Minister to make sure that this test must be carried out before any termination decision can be made. They are calling for the results of Chorionic Villus karotyping analysis in all cases where genetic conditions are suspected in the presence of a normal scan before any decision to terminate can be made.

      Fatal fetal conditions exist whether you like it or not and at times not every woman is emotionally capable of going full term (which can also result in serious complications in some instances). We are certainly not going back to a situation where these women slink off to the UK for FFA testing (correctly done) and termination (if she chooses) with the fetal remains posted back adding to the distress. You might be happy with such hypocrisy – I am not. Needless to say, the 8th left its own carcasses – of those very poor and desperate women. That was the price we paid.

      1. newsjustin

        “Fatal fetal conditions exist whether you like it or not…”

        Obviously, I do not like that fatal foetal conditions exist.

        If the 8th Amendment was still in place, that child would still be alive. Even if the parents had pursued an abortion outside the state, a complete set of test results would have emerged by then.

        1. Bitnboxy

          It’s funny how you are utterly blind to the misery and death the 8th amendment wrought. Do I have to list these women’s names for you who fell foul of this utter piece of abject cruelty and religious extremism inserted into our Constitution to fetter doctors in the performance of their duties and lead to the death of the very poor and the very desperate?

          This couple aren’t calling for the 8th to be reinstated. They are calling for a particular final chromosomal test which was not carried out in their case and which is routinely carried out in all other jurisdictions in FFA suspect cases.

          1. Hyper real

            Not funny at all boxy
            He’s a serial recidivist in terms of hatred of women and sick infants

          2. Cian

            @Hyper real
            newsjustin is a decent poster.

            I don’t agree with his point of view, but he is consistent with his beliefs and is sticks to his own morals.

            He doesn’t stoop to personal attacks.

          3. Bitnboxy

            @Cian +1 Yes, Newsjustin is a very decent poster. I don’t agree with him here at all but his viewpoint comes from an honest place.

          4. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            yes, although when asked about the Mother’s health, mental or physical, he’s very quiet.

          5. Junkface

            Really tragic story that is. It doesn’t mean that the new abortion law is a bad thing. Women need to have that choice for so many valid reasons.

            Incompetent doctors are the real cause of events.

          6. Can a Da?

            Hi guys I goad people too here sometimes, but I hope you see mostly for sick, twisted fun, (janet). Also I don’t care much to jump on bandwagons either (actually allergic to them). But I don’t agree that newsjustin is a decent poster, I think there are different and somewhat acceptable levels of presenting your opinion, I have NEVER seen news present an opinion that elevates the life and health of a woman i.e. a mother for instance to the same level as that of an unborn infant, I struggle to see any ‘decency’ in a person like that. Sorry.

          7. Micko

            Personally I’m not a fan of the idea of abortion, but I’ve no right to tell anyone what to do with their body and continuing to send girls to England was just criminal – hence I voted Yes in the referendum.

            So I’m pro choice, but I have a few friends who would be very much anti abortion. And some who would be super pro abortion.

            Sometimes (rarely) we have discussions about it and they can get intense.

            But no one ever call each other names, or belittles each other or makes out that the other side is not a decent human being.

            At the end of the day, we disagree, but we try to remember that we are like minded on 99% of other subjects.

            Should probably TRY the same here – it’s just an opinion.

          8. Can a Da?

            Accepted micko and fair play for making those reasonable points. But it’s hard for me to be honest, to characterise most of those who are anti-abortion as ‘reasonable’.

            Because ‘reasonable’ for them is defined by NOT listening to anyone else’s point of view, and enforcing their religious beliefs on the rest of us.

          9. Micko

            Ah I know… and I can see your point Can a da,

            But, sure Justin’s opinion – it’s just a thought in other lad’s head.

            Sure we had a vote and the overwhelming majority of us voted Yes.

            So, it’s done and dusted.

            NewsJustin’s allowed to have a different opinion on it (religious or not) and like I said, I’M not a fan of abortion .

            As in, I don’t like the idea of terminating a child / fetus. But I don’t get to decide how other people think or do – and the same goes for Justin’s feeling on it

            Again – It’s just thoughts in another human’s head.

            I guess he’s only really a bad person if he acts on those thoughts and goes around bombing abortion clinics ;)

          10. Can a Da?

            Nah, more than thoughts in other peoples heads now Micko in fairness, look at how many people are murdered by anti abortion activists in the States, look at how they go and campaign outside maternity hospitals, shouting abuse at the grieving, look at how they still try to get stranglehold of our national maternity hospital etc – a ‘thought’ in other people’s heads – it’s not over at all buddy.

          11. newsjustin

            I didn’t realise my opinions….which are just my opinions -held such weight with some of you.

            As I’ve said, (my opinion is) that couple’s child would be alive today if the 8th Amenent hadn’t been removed by the Irish people.

            Yes the 8th Amendment produced difficulties of its own and certainly wasn’t universally liked, but as it existed up to recently, it would have meant that one of the two important factors in this case – the availability of abortion (the other being medical incompetence) – would not exist, and it wouldn’t have played out the way it did.

            As much as people point to the 8th and claim is was the cause of certain medical disasters, in this case the absence of the 8th caused this to happen.

          12. Micko

            Ok cool Can a da

            I had a look at how many have been murdered in the US by anti – abortion zealots

            Theres only been two this century. One in 2009 and one in 2015.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence#Specific_incidents

            I don’t think it’s a big issue.

            Yes, if they’re protesting outside clinics, that’s a really really nasty thing to do to someone.

            But… we can’t legislate for people not being nice to each other.

            Probably setting up protest exclusion zones around hospitals would be a good idea.

            Simple solution.

          13. Can a Da?

            don’t delude yourself newsjustin, your opinion hold no sway with me

            @micko – you, Sir are a liar and a charlatan

            https://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/30/us/anti-abortion-violence/index.html

            But violence ticked up dramatically in the 1990s. Anti-abortion extremists — particularly those aligned with the extremist group Army of God — began to make their position clear that killing abortion providers was the only way to stop the procedure from being performed.
            • Dr. David Gunn was shot and killed in Pensacola, Florida, by a gunman who was against abortion in March 1993.
            • Dr. John Bayard Britton and his volunteer security escort, James H. Barrett, were shot and killed in front of a Pensacola clinic in July 1994.
            • Clinic employees Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols were shot and killed in Brookline, Massachusetts, in December 1994.
            • Off-duty police Officer Robert Sanderson was killed in the bombing of a clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, in January 1998.
            • A sniper killed Dr. Barnett Slepian in Amherst, New York, in October 1998. The 51-year-old physician had been the target of anti-abortion protesters since the 1980s.
            • An anti-abortion gunman killed 67-year-old George Tiller in a Wichita, Kansas, church in 2009. Tiller was one of the few U.S. physicians who performed late-term abortions.

          14. Micko

            “ @micko – you, Sir are a liar and a charlatan”

            Ummm… I’m not trying to make you look dumb here
            But, all the ones you listed there (except one) happened in the 90’s or before.

            You know we’re in a new century right? Since like… 2000 ;-0

            Which is literally what i said. “ Theres only been two THIS century. One in 2009 and one in 2015.”

            “Liar and charlatan”. Yer a gas man altogether.

  2. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    I wasn’t expecting the Brits to be sabre rattling with Russia this week but here we are.

  3. Clampers Outside

    Happy 50th to me,
    Happy 50th to me,
    The sun is shining brightly,
    Happy 50th toooo meeee :)

    1. ian-oG

      Happy Birthday to you Clampers! Hope you manage to get out and enjoy yourself this weekend.

    2. millie bobby brownie

      Fifty! Congratulations, pal.

      That’s a marvellous milestone to have reached. May you have fifty more and some great stories to tell at the end of it all. X

        1. eamonn

          birthday greetings, clampers, hoping you is a happy camper.
          keeping the right side of the headstone can be a struggle – keep up the good work!

        1. Clampers Outside

          LOL! It’s gas Janet, I never would have guessed so many were in the club already hahaha! :)

    3. Rosette of Sirius

      Nice one Clampers. Hit that one meself a few months back. Was in the middle of lockdown tho so was a quiet affair. Madame Sirius organized a dine at home experience from very swanky spot out here in Kildare and it was mesmeric. So make sure you enjoy it with all pomp and circumstance that the day warrants!

      1. Clampers Outside

        I hear you Rosette! We ordered food from The Granary here in Waterford city (last weekend) for a small troop of the Clamper clan and enjoyed back garden dining in the eve ing sun. It was wonderful to see family, and all organised by my dearest. And fair dues! :)

    4. Scundered

      Happy birthday Clampers, is there a prize for being over 50 and still using the internet?

  4. SOQ

    So this will raise heckles from the usual suspects but Ivor Cummins’s latest presentation on the delta variant in England absolutely nails it- from official government data- there is no correlation between ‘cases’ and hospitalisations.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtOu7jx3snQ

    But Doris is bound to know this? And now here in Ireland, Mehole and Holohoop want to follow his lead?

        1. Cian

          Once more he is talking rubbish.

          In the UK hospital admissions had been dropping consistently since the peak in January… right up until 17 May (when they dipped below 100 for the first time since August 2020); BUT they started to increase again are now over 200 admissions per day. They have doubled in the last month.

          Based on his data source: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

          1. Cian

            Jeez; We’re are back to the arguments from Q4 2020. You remember? “there will be no second wave”?

            I was pointing at the case numbers rising, and the knock-on of the hospitalisation rate rising. And you are “but it is only x people”. How did that end?

            Now. Don’t look at the raw numbers; look at the change over time. It was 100 per day last month; it is 200 per day today;
            As long as the cases continue to rise there will be a knock-on rise in hospitalisations It will be 400/day in July (and if nothing is done it could be 800/day in August).

          2. SOQ

            If we were back to then you’d still be arguing that it doesn’t follow a seasonal pattern.

            820000 tests a day with an average of 16500 positive results- and the hospitalisation increase is only 100 per day? That ratio is way way down- even the “old retired nurse on YouTube” (with 1 million followers)- thinks so.

            And, when it comes to government policy about opening up the country, it really doesn’t’ matter if it is a weakened virus or vaccines- the decision should be the same.

    1. Joe

      You should link to a better choice of Quacks than Cummins, you do know that
      he recently deleted a retweet of a post showing a photo of the entrance of Auschwitz in which the infamous slogan above the gates had been doctored to read “Vackzine macht frei” [vaccine makes you free]. When challenged, he replied on social media: “Super satire snowflake – get over it.”
      But I’m sure Covid deniers and anti vaxxers love execrable garbage like that!

        1. Johnny

          in Dublin,Johnny Rohan who interestingly has relied on middle easter money and no,not from Israel since,is on record re Nama,describing them as Nazi’s, one irelands most prominent and prolific developers…yeah.

          “Businessman Johnny Ronan has been slammed over an Irish translation of the German phrase ‘Arbeit Macht Frei’, which he included in evidence given to the banking inquiry today.”

          ps-Shatter was minister at time:)

          1. Johnny

            only reason i’m ‘so long’ in states is FF/FG incompetence,largest phara base outside USA,planeloads leaving daily for states….its farcical at this point.

            get a good grip your pearls there,its called FREE SPEECH,how do you like yours?

            important SCOTUS case yesterday,oh i had send over a bottle of champagne to a table at a hotel in Paris,as JR and his entourage had fallen on it…. he is a very,very talented developer who built some Dublin and Irelands finest building’s over the last few decades.

            “In a victory for student speech rights, the Supreme Court on Wednesday ruled that a former cheerleader’s online F-bombs about her school is protected speech under the First Amendment.”
            https://www.npr.org/2021/06/23/1001382019/supreme-court-rules-cheerleaders-f-bombs-are-protected-by-the-first-amendment

    2. Bitnboxy

      “Ivor Cummins’ latest presentation”.

      We are so lucky to have Ivor, a behemoth of measure, reason and nuance, bestow upon us mere plebs, the full extent of his intellectual rigour and probity.

      All we need is a valid credit card.

      Subscribe now folks! Get him while he is hot.

      1. SOQ

        Ad hominem attacks are always by people who cannot challenge the arguments being put forward- or in this case, the government data- what is he saying that you actually disagree with?

          1. SOQ

            Ivor’s point is exactly the same as the one John Campbell made yesterday evening, albeit in a more condensed format- that the ratio of hospitalizations to cases continues to decrease.

          2. Cian

            The ratio may be decreasied, but there is still a link between cases and hospitalisations (albeit a larger ratio). With vaccination this ration may have dropped from 1:10 to 1:20

            The daily number of cases in the UK has quadrupled from ~2,000/day six weeks ago to ~8,000/day this week. Hospitalisations will quadruple too (there is a delay between changes in the cases and hospitalisations)

          3. SOQ

            Of course there is a link- you have to be infected with SARS-Cov-2 BEFORE you can develop Covid-19, But, the percentage of people developing serious CoVid-19 keeps going down- and that is the core point.

            As for vaccines- despite their risks, they may offer some protection to vulnerable people BUT, it is mainly younger people testing positive now, a lot of whom have not been vaccinated- so herd immunity is happening, albeit it with a less serious strain.

            And if there is no pressure on the hospitals- isn’t that a good thing?

          4. Cian

            It’s like talking to a 5-year old. Trying to convince them to wear a rain coat because you can see storm clouds- and them saying “I don’t need a rain coat – it isn’t raining”.

            There is no pressure on the hospitals today, but the rise in cases and the (currently small, but increasing) rise is hospitalisations is worrisome.

          5. SOQ

            That cases are so high but hospitalizations are so low would be a worry to someone like you I suppose.

            Doesn’t basic virology ever register? That a mutating corona virus becomes more infectious but less serious?

            Jazus- you’ll be out of a job if this keeps up.

    1. Cú Chulainn

      Yep, all too familiar.. I think as a society we are only seeing the top of the iceberg of the damage done.. a long road to travel yet..

    2. Junkface

      Its so grim. Really exposes what Catholic institutions were up to in the old days. They were on a power trip of unimaginable horror, treating kids like livestock.

  5. TMAN

    What is the story with this delta variant. No increase in hospitalization or deaths. The experts say the elderly are protected because of vaccine there seems to be a spike in cases in young people but they have said all along that they are close to zero risk. A GP from Derry on rte this morning saying they have noticed a rise in respiratory cases in children which they think is covid but they are getting a lot of negative results, WTF is the PCR test not the gold standard. I would have thought the obvious question was if your getting negative results what do you think it is. No such luck.
    I wonder if you asked the “young” people, look guys you did what we asked you to do we protected the elderly and vulnerable and they are now all vaccinated which is showing in the data but we still want to protect you guys by continuing to curtail your freedoms even though we said you are practically zero risk of this thing. What do ye think. Its Monty python stuff now.

    1. Cian

      There is an increase in hospitalisations in the UK.
      It have jumped from 100/day back in May to 200/day this week.

      1. TMAN

        Sorry my post was in relation to Ireland. I didn’t think you could compare countries when it came to covid or is it only comparable when it suits the narrative

      2. Micko

        An increase in hospitalisations you say? Oh no!

        If only we had billions of euros lying around (borrowed) and the time (15 months) to drastically increase our capacity in our healthcare system.

        Maybe set up field hospitals to treat Covid only patients and keep Covid from spreading to regular hospitals and nursing staff and potentially saving many of the frail and elderly (that we all of sudden apparently now give a crap about)?

        Naaaah – It’ll be fine…

      3. TMAN

        Also how long has it been since Tony sent that infamous tweet about South William street. No spike in numbers anywhere. Surprise surprise

  6. Junkface

    On a lighter note. Last night’s football at the Euros was really exciting. I wasn’t sure about the rearranged group stages format, but my god its a huge improvement! Teams were really going for it. Hungary were 20 mins or so from knocking out Germany. I watched the Portugal v France game mostly, its was so much fun. How is Ronaldo still up to that standard? He must train like a maniac. Pogba played so well too.

    1. scottser

      sensible referees and light touch VAR means the games are a lot more watchable than the headwreck that is a premier league match.

  7. Johnny

    -noting that 92 per cent of judicial reviews into strategic housing developments (SHDs) since 2018 had resulted in plans being quashed.
    -one specific SHD planning application had been referred to the European Court of Justice and that this potentially exposed up to 64,000 housing units from proceeding.

    these and many other govt fails are laid out in shocking and stark detail in Davy’s special report on irish housing market-some dishes are best served cold-ouch-IT having no ability to do any journalism or research is frantically copying and pasting it.

    https://www.davy.ie/campaign/irish-housing-market.html?utm_source=insight&utm_medium=download_link&utm_campaign=irish_housing_market_report

      1. Johnny

        ..some people just like watching car crashes,i actually find parts Ireland more cartoonish yank than anywhere in states,anyone for BBQ in the rain,bit like yourself a joke.

        1. Hyper real

          Haha that made me laugh
          I think most of the people on here would concur there isn’t a bigger joke than you to be had online right now Johnny. Every day a bellyache

    1. Can a Da?

      fair play to him for being the first to come out in the NFL, that took some real balls
      as someone I know said, at least he’s not a Dennis Rodman type – :)

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