This morning.

Via Birmingham Mail:

ITV This Morning has come under fire over an “irresponsible” debate between two guests today.

Beverly Turner and Dr Nighat Arif were on the show, which was hosted by Rochelle Humes and Eamonn Holmes.

The pair were debating getting children vaccinated against Covid when tempers flared.

One tweeted: “Why do you keep inviting on Beverley Turner regarding COVID vaccinations? I absolutely think you need to represent both sides in a debate however she is always SO angry when she talks about her side of the debate, in contrast to the doctor who was very calm.”

“#ThisMorning Why is it the people who bang on about the dangerous side effects of the vaccine seem perfectly happy with the dangerous side effects of the virus?” asked another.

Another chipped in with: “Why does Beverly Turner have to express her views in such an angry and patronising manner?”

A fourth branded the interview “irresponsible”.

ITV This Morning in hot water over ‘irresponsible’ row between Beverley Turner and doctor (Birmingham Mail)

Meanwhile…

FIGHT!

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110 thoughts on “Teen Spirit

  1. ian-oG

    Luke sounds like a right lovely chap.

    ”I’m not a conspiracy theorist, you’re a fupping idiot”. (From his Twitter banner.)

    If you’re explaining Luke……..

    Also, you look a lot like a young (impressionist) Alistair McGowen. He’s a lot funnier than you are.

    1. Mr T

      Anyone putting their own name and picture out there on a public platform is a bit of a dose tbh

      Bring back web 1.0!

      1. ciaran

        In fairness to Luke, he got it right where he describes himself as a ‘no brainer’ at the end of his tweet. Honesty must be important to him.

        1. ian-oG

          LOL.

          Imagine going onto social media to advise people about medical decisions. What level of arrogance would that require?

          1. Micko

            Doesn’t matter Bodger.

            Only what Tony Holyone says is kosher to them.

            “Look at my furrows of worry, look at my big bank account, and my family.
            This has to be real.”

          2. andrew

            @Bodger

            With the greatest of respect, Bodger, these “statistics” have been explained/placed in context so may times in your own comment section that it’s simply not credible that you still believe the risk of myocarditis exceeds the risk of vaccines in teens.

            So you are either a) clickbaiting, or b) actively disseminating lies and misinformation.

            Either way, shame on you.

          3. ian-oG

            @ Bodger – Nigel has already said pretty much what I was going to say.

            Data can be viewed in many ways but it takes the correct training and education to interpret it. I’d say the same thing to people who might be considered to be ‘on my side’ in this regard.

            Some randomer on Twitter giving out medical advice is just some randomer on Twitter giving out medical advice. Treat with extreme caution would be the best ‘advice’ I could give, if I was wont to do so.

          4. Micko

            Ian

            If people need “correct training” to interpret the data as you say.

            Then why do the HSE put it up at all?

            Why is the official HSE webpage literally called “ Deciding on Covid-19 vaccination for 12 – 15 year olds”

            Couldn’t they just skip the whole thing and go straight to “get the jab for your kid coz we said so dummy” policy?

            Seems more efficient…

          5. Nigel

            Seriously – comparing the relative odds might be a starting point in a discussion about whether a child should or shouldn’t be vaccinated, but you have no bloody idea what else might be relevant, and he seems to be ideologically opposed to acknowledging any other factors, let alone the medical situation of the individual child, which means giving out this sort of scaremongering advice is reckless and stupid and ideological but CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY, apparently, holy crap.

          6. Nigel

            ‘Couldn’t they just skip the whole thing and go straight to “get the jab coz we said so dummy” policy?’

            But they’re not. So perhaps you are wrong. About everything.

          7. Nigel

            Could you point at the unhinged bit, please? Just so I know where I went off the rails to the guy who thinks vaccination is a crime against humanity.

            ‘Never give me racing tips.’

            Tipsters for medical advice, doctors for racing tips.

          8. ian-oG

            I’m not going to defend the HSE, if it were up to me it would be disbanded and something that exists to actually correctly manage healthcare in this country would be established in its place.

            Suffice to say I am not going to go onto social media to interpret any data no matter how basic it might be to the extent I am advising people about it. That to me is extreme arrogance.

          9. Tinytim

            There is a level of irony here however; by commenting here, on social media, about your opinion of this person (and their comments) on another platform you are putting a stake in the ground about your actual opinion on the issue on social media.

          10. Micko

            Ah Ian.

            Come on man. That’s a cop out.

            Could you all not just admit that it makes no sense for the HSE to publish that info unless they want parents to asses their child risk of Covid vs the Covid vaccine themselves.

            And that you are completely wrong in your assertion that you need special training to determine if 1 in 16K is a greater or less risk than 1 in 100K.

            But no, you’d rather no say the HSE should be disbanded rather than admit you are wrong.

            Sign of our times methinks…

          11. Nigel

            There you go, interpreting medical data purely on the basis of odds, as if nothing else might be relevant. You and Bodger getting bookies to make your medical decisions for you.

          12. Micko

            So why do the HSE publish the info Nigel?

            If we’re not meant to interpret the risks for our children?

            You’re going around in circles

          13. ian-oG

            The point I am making is that this guy is making definitive statements.

            Nobody should be making definitive statements on something they have zero clue about. Have I ever made a definitive statement on this issue? No. I have given and said it was, an opinion on my own actions. Nothing more.

            I am curious as to where all the hostility is coming from though, something up here I am missing?

          14. andrew

            @Micko

            “And that you are completely wrong in your assertion that you need special training to determine if 1 in 16K is a greater or less risk than 1 in 100K.”

            With respect, Micko, you’ve just proven that some people (you, for example) are in fact incapable of doing precisely that.

            My guess is that the HSE removed this when they realised how stupid some people are. All they are guilty of is assuming a modicum of intelligence on the part of the common man. But, hey, they hadn’t encountered MIcko!

          15. Nigel

            Was that the only data they published? Was there no other information? If, once a layperson had read that information, they consulted a medical professional, would they expect the result to be couched entirely in terms of odds or would there be other factors to consider? Funny how your apreciation of nuance and context goes out the window under certain conditions.

          16. Micko

            Ah come one lads.

            We ALL know why the info is on the HSE website

            It’s a botty covering exercise.

            It’s a “but the info was on the website ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ – did you not read it? Well the info was there ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sorry about yer kid dude”

          17. Micko

            I really love the way Andrew uses the “With respect, ” bit before he calls someone an idiot.

            So classy…

          18. andrew

            @Micko

            I respect you despite your idiocy, Micko. I am a man of compassion and humility despite my erudition and accomplishments in life.

          19. Slave to the Rhythm

            I feel the same Micko incidentally… I’m sure you are great company on a personal level.. to have a pint with… very pleasant indeed…. but I’d be secretly puzzling at some of your expressed points of view…we’d have to agree to disagree a lot

  2. andrew

    @Bodger

    “Those are the odds though.”

    Sorry but that’s utterly stupid.

    If someone told you, “So, Bodger, choose between a 1 in 100,000 chance of something happening or a 1 in 16,000 chance of something else happening”, you would, obviously, want to know what the “something” and the “something else” are before you choose. And you would obviously want to know what each thing entails and what the implications of each are. Surely?

    Being hospitalised with Covid19 means you’re in a bad way.

    Getting myocarditis is 99.99% nothing at all to be worried about – in fact, in most cases, you won’t even know it.

      1. andrew

        Out of 5.26 billion doses globally

        FACT: Intense sexual activity culminating in ejaculation is a far greater danger to your heart than myocarditis. So if you are genuinely concerned, it would benefit you to get the vaccine and abstain from sex for the rest of your life.

          1. andrew

            Able to explain why?

            Or just another antivaxx conspiracy loon throwing barbs from the sidelines? Of you go, child.

          2. Ghost of Yep

            It’s a nonsensical response.

            The whole “sure this other thing is dangerous and you do that” stuff. Childish really.

            Also that lady is not the only one to have died due to complications so the “Out of 5.26 billion doses globally” is an irrelevant number that you present as a gotcha.

          3. andrew

            @Ghost of Yep

            So what you’re saying is you didn’t understand the comment. Thats OK.

            The point is that myocarditis is not a serious condition in the overwhelmingly vast majority of cases – and that, in fact, plenty of normal everyday things cause it and other heart issues.

            And as for “that lady is not the only one to have died due to complications”. How many people have died due to the vaccines? And I’m talking about verified cases, not the anecdotal that your loonie Facebook friends post.

          4. Ghost of Yep

            I understand completely but still appreciate the patronising. It’s still a useless comparison to make your point.

            We don’t know and I don’t have Facebook. How many people have died from Covid? Before you start the usual anti vax loon conspiranonsense label supposed intelligent adults use around here.. I’m totally open to it being higher.

          5. andrew

            “I’m totally open to it being higher”

            You are totally open to something that there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate it may be the case. OK, Einstein. I don’t really have much interest in engaging down at your level so I’ll bow out here. Adios.

          6. Ghost of Yep

            What exactly is “my level”? Not being an obnoxious?

            WHO in May said it was likely the numbers were being significantly undercounted. Several publications over the last year have said it was near impossible to properly estimate deaths due to Covid in many countries as they don’t have the capability to do so.

            All the best precious. Burned yourself out. Cute.

        1. Bodger

          andrew, the highest risk of myocarditis is for boys aged 16-17 following the 2nd dose of Pfizer, 1 in 14,000 or 71 in a million, according to the American Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

          1. andrew

            Yes, that’s true. And the proven likelihood is if 14,000 teens experience myocarditis, not one will have an issue.

          2. SOQ

            Myocarditis can be a life threatening, life long condition- there is no data on how many of those young people are permanently injured- there couldn’t possibly be.

          3. andrew

            “Myocarditis can be a life threatening, life long condition”

            Yes, it *can* be, but almost never is.

            “There is no data on how many of those young people are permanently injured- there couldn’t possibly be.”

            Myocarditis is not a new thing. Everything that there is to know about it is known. So, yes, we absolutely do know how likely anyone who contracts it is to experience long-term problems. Like this is really basic stuff, SOQ.

          4. SOQ

            The condition is CAUSED by the vaccines so there is absolutely no way of know how many of those cases are life long or life threatening.

            Natural occurrences are NOT the same thing.

            All we know at this point is that there is way more instances of heart issues than previously assumed.

          5. andrew

            @SOQ

            Sorry but you do not know what you are talking about. What “natural causes” of myocarditis? Is myocarditis due to alcohol natural? (it’s very common, by the way). Or what about cocaine use? (Also very common). Or a spider bite? Or a sting from a wasp? These are all things that result in myocarditis.

            If you’re saying myocarditis from a vaccine is a different thing to myocarditis from a bee-sting, then it’s not myocarditis, So you know something nobody else does… can I ask where this earth-shattering insight came from? Or is it another of your “could be” things that you’ve pulled out of your botty for the purposes of further disseminating your lies? I dearly hope you are being well paid for this.

          6. SOQ

            In this case, because of an experimental mNRA therapy with no long term safety data- no one has a clue as to what the long term prognosis’s are. Anyone claiming otherwise clearly has an agenda.

      2. J9

        Well, Bodger – that’s one in 3 million – I’d have thought you’d be happy with those odds.

  3. Mojo Nixon

    The 1 in 100,00 claim regarding “Serious Illness is rare” is not on the HSE site. It may have been, but not anymore, so is he referencing out of date information ? I note the date on his tweet is today.

      1. George

        I don’t know when it said that but the Google cache of the page is a week old and doesn’t contain that stat so any change is nothing to do with a tweet from some guy with 247 followers.

      2. Mojo Nixon

        So when did he take his screen grab ? Yesterday ? Last Year ? March ? Pre Delta variant ? He certainly didn’t look it up today. So he isn’t exactly posting the correct information, unless of course he has preconceived ideas and the updated information didn’t fit in with his comparison.

          1. andrew

            @Bodger

            Or that it came to their attention the information was being willfully distorted by people with vested interests

          2. Micko

            Would it surprise you that only 0.12% of current Covid infections in Ireland are in ICU?

            Probably not…

            That’s 61 out of 50,089 current infections.

            But please, continue with YOUR scaremongering conspiracy loon show, where we have to inject young children to protect “everyone”.

            I’ll make popcorn

          3. andrew

            @Micko

            “where we have to inject young children to protect “everyone”.

            I have never advocated vaccinating children for this purpose.

          4. Micko

            Emmm yeah you have.

            You said along the lines of – ‘we should inject kids because we need to protect society and coz we don’t want the virus to mutate into a variant that may harm kids.

          5. andrew

            @Micko

            I’ll take that clear conflation as an admission of your spoofing. That is fine!

            For the record, I advocate vaccinating children for 3 reasons:

            1) yes, future variants may very well pose a danger to children – a nightmare scenario that nobody, I’m sure, wants to see,

            2) we do not know what the long-term effect of Covid is on anyone – we do know that harmful residual effects of vaccines manifest themselves within months, whereas harmful residual effects of viruses manifest themselves years or even decades later. There is no reason to believe Covid19 will be any different.

            3) although very unlikely, current variants of Covid can be a dangerous condition for children

            Others have said that children should be vaccinated for mental health etc – ie if not vaccinated, cannot be comfortably around grandparents etcetera and this may affect their mental health. I’m not so convinced about that.

          6. Micko

            Spoofer you say sir – I think not

            “One other objective (for injecting kids) is to curtail transmission in BROADER SOCIETY. Another – and one we have already discussed at length, and the one that concerns me most – is to protect children against mutations / variants that may directly target and affect children.”

            https://www.broadsheet.ie/2021/08/12/an-excellent-safety-profile/#comment-2339123

            Good stuff. Pretty funny thread actually.

            Especially the part further down where you asked Matty if he’d – and I quote “ever engaged in sexual congress with another person?” or did he “really, really, really like video games?” **snigger**

            You big old logical man of science you.

            Never let it be said you get personal eh Mr Spock

            Aaaah Good times ;P

          7. Oro

            Not you trawling through old posts after you said the following to me:

            “You trawled through two months of posts, just in a vain attempt to catch me out.

            But yeah “I’m shown up”

            Nice to know you remember every single thing I say though.”

            I guess you are shown up now. Aaaah Good times ;P

          8. andrew

            @Micko

            You went back how long in an effort to catch me out?!?!?! Good grief, I’ve got you bad, haven’t I?? LOL

            And, eh, no – I was explaining the rationale behind vaccinating children to you. Not my own opinions. I went on to explain them later. I think that’s fairly clear from the comment. So all that searching achieved nothing… well, nothing other than making you look a bit pathetic and lost!

            And my comment to the other fellow was a tongue-in-cheek suggestion that he perhaps spends a long time on the Internet and lacks social contact. I think that applies to all of your lot. But, yes, it fell flat – as I’ve said, humour is not my thing!

          9. Micko

            Oh. You’re doing the “living in my head” bit

            That’s a good bit Andrew. It’s a tad overdone though.

            Just Google “ broadsheet andrew injecting”

            All your top hits are there lovey ;)

      1. andrew

        “Kids will be dropping like flies any day now.”

        Yet this person angrily rejects all suggestions that he is a scaremonger conspiracy loon who disseminates lies and misinformation.

        1. Micko

          Yes, yes I’m a loon- sure. We’ve heard all the attacks before.

          Could be worse though

          I could be a “world class immunologist” who spend his time on a teeny little website in Ireland arguing with people who he thinks are loons. Even when the facts are totally against his argument – 90% of the population have the jab. It’s a resounding success.

          But…are you sure you’re right Andrew?

          I’m not sure if I am. But then, I’m only a mere lay person. Of course I could be wrong.

          But you… well…you’re an expert aren’t you?

          But yet.. you’re still here. Are you sure this is still about “following the science” for you?

          The fact that nearly every single tweet you put out is about Covid 19 is pretty telling.
          .
          .
          .
          “Any man who must say, “I am the king” is no true king.”

          1. GiggidyGoo

            I must be famous. I’m being quoted all over the shop. By the holy trinity. The three who really have to bring me into every conversation.
            Scan the code Bitty. We know who you (plural) are..

          2. Slave to the Rhythm

            I must admit I was a bit worried there last week Giggidy when you said you ‘know’ who I am. I don’t want an artic of past best before strawberries or rotten last years’ Queens been dumped on my patio…not even an Hiace-full!

        2. chris

          I notice Andrew the shill was conspicuous by his absence in the Moderna contamination threads. I hope broadsheet keeps an IP log.

  4. ian-oG

    @Micko – you really think I have some sort of respect for Holohan?

    I do read the news you know, for quite some time now. Heck I have even heavily criticised him in the past on these very pages.

  5. ben

    @bodger is clearly trolling everyone here. Must be.
    Talking about myocarditis is like warning, 1 in every 1 receivers of the vaccine will experience a sore arm for a bit. It’s irrelevant & and just plain not a thing to report.
    The real scandal here is who’s getting the contracts for lollipops when they start to issue kids with the vaccine? Brown envelopes and 50p bags exchanging hands on that one for sure! I’d buy a bunch of stock in Athlone Sweets ASAP!

      1. alickdouglas

        Not having a go at you personally, but I think this is an interesting illustration of how analyses don’t necessarily line up neatly within an organization like CDC.

        http://dx.doi.org/10.15585/mmwr.mm7035e5

        Quote: During March 2020–January 2021, patients with COVID-19 had nearly 16 times the risk for myocarditis compared with patients who did not have COVID-19, and risk varied by sex and age.

        Biggest increase in risk is in ppl less than 16 years and greater than 75. This does not compare vax vs. non vax, but does make a correction for the potential impact of vax-related myocarditis. Message for me is that I probably wouldn’t focus on myocarditis alone as the differentiator as to whether I would consider vax for <18y.

        1. SOQ

          Biggest increase in risk is in ppl less than 16 years and greater than 75- from the VACCINE.

          When it comes to the actual virus, meaning SARS-CoV-2, anyone under 50 without the usual vulnerabilities, are pretty much good to go- possibly with a bad / good flu / cold.

          1. alickdouglas

            No, that’s not what the study from CDC above demonstrates:

            Study period was March 2020 to Jan 2021: numbers of vaccinees were relatively low overall, and those who had received vaccine were excluded from the analysis. Therefore the study compares the risk of myocarditis in those who were diagnosed as having COVID vs. those who did not have a COVID diagnosis.

            Myocarditis was rare overall, but overall people who had COVID were 16x more at risk to have myocarditis than those who did not have COVID: the lowest risk was 7x for 16 to 39 year olds, and the highest risk was for those younger than 16 or greater than 75 where the risk was 30 times higher.

            One needs to be extremely cautious about what risk ratios mean for individuals: an increase in risk of 2x of a vanishingly rare disorder is still vanishingly rare; nevertheless, 15 to 30x risk increases are very high indeed, similar order of magnitude to a lifetime of smoking and risk of lung cancer. Nevertheless, my original caveat remains; this study demonstrates that COVID massively increases the risk of a single disorder, I do not think that one should be determining overall risk of contracting COVID against overall risk of a live-changing side-effect from vaccine based on a single disorder.

  6. Pookakie

    If you want medical advice please consult your GP and not the internet. If you get cancer symptoms, do you check twitter for the right treatment? It goes down to who you trust for medical advice and treatment? I would rather go with my GP thanks.
    Bodger what is your medical training? I hope you don’t look back on this in years to come and regret the use of this platform you have. You actually could be causing people to die unnecessarily. It’s like everyone has forgotten about the army in Italy having to deal with all the dead or the refrigerated trucks being used as morgues in New York or people queuing in ambulances outside Belfast hospitals. The pandemic is real, vaccines are the only way out of it.

  7. V aka Frilly Keane

    This is getting very personal targeted and vindictive
    And a lot of the content tends to start from the base of whether you like the source or not

    Meanwhile I’m still very much a get vaxxed don’t get vaxxed you decide

    But I will say this

    I can take numbers and turn them into any story I want to tell ye

    So maybe think of that when you are quoting and relying on, and indeed sharing some of the interpretations of data whatatas filling up yere bookmarks

    Just saying

    1. Cian

      V – talking of numbers – did you ever head of A&W burgers? In the 1980s they wanted to compete with McDonald’s – specifically their quarter pounder.

      Taubman recounted this “We were aggressively marketing a one-third-pound hamburger for the same price…but despite our best efforts, including first-rate TV and radio promotional spots, they just weren’t selling.”

      Confused why A&W’s burgers weren’t able to compete even though the burgers were priced the same as their competitors, Taubuman brought in a market research firm.

      The firm eventually conducted a focus group to discover the truth: participants were concerned about the price of the burger. “Why should we pay the same amount for a third of a pound of meat as we do for a quarter-pound of meat?” they asked.

      It turns out the majority of participants incorrectly believed one-third of a pound was actually smaller than a quarter of a pound.

      the majority believed one-third of a pound was actually smaller than a quarter of a pound! Because, you know, like, 3 is smaller than 4.

      1. V aka Frilly Keane

        Never heard of that one Cian

        but my immediate thought is that it was particularly hard to shift the McDonald’s narrative anyway
        and the quarter pounder is too embedded
        Like burger king sell theirs as a Whopper

        they just presented it wrong
        have a third of a pound of meat between your buns
        instead of a measly quarter

        do you want 33% of a pound of meat
        or 25% of a pound
        for your buck

        see

        1. Cian

          A&W didn’t count on how stupid the average person is. And if they can’t work out that a third is biggger than a quarter – they won’t be able to cope with the concept that a quarter pounder is actually 25% of a pound.

          The average person isn’t capable of understanding these Covid Vs Vaccine risk statistics.

          1. V aka Frilly Keane

            True

            But the point is to publish information that is understandable
            Clear, transparent, and most of all reliable and trustworthy
            comparable and timely ideally – but shur’

            Wether tis financial information or the results of scientific trials or everyday polling

            The end user is not our responsibility neither is how they interpret the information they’re given

          2. Micko

            “ didn’t count on how stupid the average person is.”

            Emmm

            Is the average person not as stupid as exactly that? The average.

            Bang on in the middle.

            The average person. … as in, if we’re talking about intelligence, the “average persons” IQ is exactly in the middle of the bell curve.

            Kinda like what old George used to say

            “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realise half of them are stupider than that.”

            But also half of them are smarter… so there’s always that ray of sunshine ;-)

          3. Slave to the Rhythm

            Using the word average in relation to a person connotes a special kind of stupidity, a very particular kind, as if the person speaking is trying to draw attention to their own authority, and really failing….

          4. Cian

            My point, which ironically I didn’t simplify enough is:

            if the majority of people think that 1/3 is less than 1/4 then the average person has a very, very low level of mathematical skill.

            Thus the average person doesn’t have the knowledge or experience to make a informed decision on relative risk.

          5. Slave to the Rhythm

            He does it a lot actually V, when he sort of runs out of rhetorical road. It’s like he doesn’t understand that people are quite complex and perfectly capable of deep understanding of some complex topics and completely missing the point on others.

          6. Slave to the Rhythm

            The folly in your commentary Cian is that you are extrapolating a conclusion from a flawed premise. That it may appear that a high number of people do/don’t have up-to-date mathematical skills is neither here nor there. There are obviously lots of people commenting on this, and one individual in particular I can think of, who claims to have a number of degrees, and they haven’t an ounce of sense, despite no doubt being well able to do a few sums.

            And as other people pointed out to above, if the issue then is one of understanding, that is one then of poor communications. Basic communications theory is that the message intended has to be received and understood. Most of the duffers in our civil and public service are barely above primary school level in that regard – I’ve worked with them.

  8. SOQ

    The vaccines are still safer than COVID.

    No darlin- they are not- that is the whole point.

    We do not, and will not, know the long term safety profile of these jabs for another 5-8 years.

  9. f_lawless

    Speaking of teens, this news story typifies what can only be described as a kind of mass psychosis in my opinion

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9938121/Schoolgirl-17-urges-teenagers-vaccinated.html

    Welsh teenager aged 17 gets her first injection, starts feeling unwell directly afterwards. Her initial assumption is it’s an adverse reaction. She then takes a Covid test which comes back positive. 2 weeks later her health has seriously deteriorated. She’s rushed to hospital and diagnosed a blood clot in her lung. Doctors have said it is “Covid-related” but have apparently let her believe that it can’t be connected in any way to the injection she received. She’s since taken to social media to urge other young people to also get injected and various corporate media outlets have latched on to the story to amplify her message.

    But medical experts such as Dr Hooman Noorchashm, Dr Mike Yeadon, etc have been warning for months that any recipients of Covid vaccines who already have Covid viral antigens present in their system (though undetected) at the time of injection, may be exposing themselves to potential adverse reactions including blood clots.

    https://noorchashm.medium.com/a-letter-of-warning-to-fda-and-pfizer-on-the-immunological-danger-of-covid-19-vaccination-in-the-7d17d037982d

    Dr Noorchashm:
    “I am writing to warn that it is an almost certain immunological prognotication that if viral antigens are present in the tissues, any tissues, of subjects who undergo vaccination, the antigen specific immune response triggered by the vaccine will target those tissues and cause inflammation and damage beyond the local anatomic site of vaccine placement.

    Most pertinently, when viral antigens are present in the vascular endothelium or other layers of the blood vessel.. the antigen specific immune response incited by the vaccine is almost certain to do damage to the vascular endothelium. Such vaccine directed endothelial damage is certain to cause blood clot formation”

    The case of the teenage girl, is in reality likely a cautionary tale for young people – who are statistically at minuscule risk to Covid – but it’s been turned on its head and spun as the opposite.

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