Saturday.

Kildare Street, Dublin 2.

The 10th Annual March for Choice took place today outside Leinster House where the Abortion Rights Campaign held a socially distanced, ‘static rally’ for ‘free, safe, legal and local abortion access’.

Leah Farrell/RollingNews

Sponsored Link

41 thoughts on “Bodily Autonomy

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      Do you honestly believe women go through months of pregnancy but then on a whim decide over half way through that they’re not really bothered and want an abortion?

      I fear for any woman or girl you know with that attitude towards them.

      Reply
          1. Chris

            You contended that women don’t choose abortion on a whim, my post gives an example of a woman doing just that, from having photos taken saying she was delighted with her pregnancy to wanting a late stage abortion to appear on a TV show.

            Garbage moral relativism from The Guardian does not help your point.

      1. Tom

        The question of “whim” is a side-issue. Aborting a 7 month old unborn baby who could survive outside the womb starkly brings home what abortion fundamentally involves: killing innocent human beings.

        Reply
          1. Tom

            Various reasons depending on the circumstance, and none that would constitute a whim. None of that changes the above point about what abortion fundamentally involves as it’s direct aim: the deliberate ending of a very young human being’s life — one’s own child — almost always in order to avoid caring for him/her.

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            “almost always in order to avoid caring for him/her.”

            What if the abortion is the most caring thing one can do?

      2. Micko

        Regardless of where a person lies on this issue.

        I think there needs to be a sensible discussion here and saying that “you fear” for the safety of women around someone just because you don’t like their post or opinion is childish and very silly Daisy.

        I understand this may be an emotive issue for you, but I think Baz deserves an apology from you.

        Reply
        1. paul

          what happens at 7 months if no foetal heartbeat is detected? Do you give the woman the choice to abort or say “no, you’ve got to sit this one out”?

          Many women will decide to take the foetus to term, give birth and say goodbye but many others want it over as soon as can be and giving them that choice is the best thing we can do.

          Reply
          1. Micko

            Ummm.

            I’m not arguing for either side Paul as I’m not familiar with the current legislation.

            I’m personally pro choice and I voted as such (I’m pro choice for every medical procedure btw) ;-)

            I just don’t think calling someone a potential threat to women because they disagree with you helps the situation.

            It’s childish, hyperbolic and In fact, it makes them more likely to dig their heels in even further.

            That’s my only issue. If you’re trying to change someone’s mind, that’s not the way to go about it.

          2. paul

            Apologies, Micko, I walked in swinging. I work with some people who have gone through this and children/infants in palliative care and there is family history there too, it’s very close to the surface for me.

          1. scottser

            they should and they do. the rights of the mother naturally and logically trump the right of the foetus.

  1. Rudy

    Here’s a thought experiment (credit to the author Patrick Tomlinson) for the anti-abortion folk:

    You are in a burning building. As you are about to leave the building, you hear an infant crying in a room. When you enter the room, you see a young child in one corner and a box containing 1000 viable human embryos in another. You have time to rescue either the baby or the embryos. Which do you choose?

    Reply
    1. Tom

      i) The embryos would be a lot further away from safety if taken out of the building than the young child.

      ii) to develop the analogy, from the fact that I feed my hungry child food costing 4e, which could instead be spent on saving the lives of 20 kids in impoverished parts of the world, it does not follow that those 20 kids aren’t human beings or can be deliberately killed. So the analogy “proves” way too much.

      Reply
    2. Termagant

      Same question but replace the embryos with the child’s 90 year old grandmother. Does that mean we should freely cull anyone over retirement age?

      Reply
        1. Termagant

          It’s not interesting, it’s a stupid thought experiment. Just because one thing matters more doesn’t mean the other thing doesn’t matter at all. Which is why you couldn’t reply to mine.

          Beware of things you see on the internet that Reddit tells you are clever, because often they are not.

          Reply
          1. Rudy

            Every time I have seen this analogy used (this is the first time I have used it myself), the responses are identical:

            Pro-choice people say “The baby of course! An actual human life matters more than potential human lives”.

            Opponents of abortion always, always deflect (bringing up irrelevancies such as 90 year old people). Why? Because if they were to answer honestly, they would have to admit that they, too, accept that an actual human life matters more than a potential one.

            And I’ve never been on Reddit ;)

          2. Termagant

            Great, that’s wonderful. I’m glad you have had these experiences.

            So would you save the baby or the grandmother?

  2. Bitnboxy

    The issue is that near total bans on abortion similar to the one’s we had endanger women, particularly those with health issue and fetter obstetricians in the performance of their duties. The victims of the 8th were the very desperate and very poor women. Near total bans on abortion come at a cost. Look at the Savita report where it is directly stated that one cannot exclude the 8th as being the reason for her untimely demise. The obstetrician focused too much on the still present heartbeat of a foetus she knew was failing but felt she could not terminate until it was too late and given the woeful aftercare, we all should hang over heads in shame. The 8th endangered women’s lives and was a legal mess but the religious “pro-life” brigade continue to reduce a complex debate to “killing babies” to avoid medical and legal home truths.

    Reply
        1. Termagant

          The fact remains: abortion is legally unrestricted up to 12 weeks, with allowances for exigent circumstances afterwards. What more is required.

          Reply
          1. Daisy Chainsaw

            Removal of barriers like the 3 day wait between consultation and abortion. This kind of decision isn’t made lightly and forcing someone to wait 3 more days is infantilising and insulting.

  3. Tom

    @Paul – you don’t understand how analogies and responses to analogies work. It’s not a “deflection” to respond to an analogy by illustrating that its logical consequences over shoot the runway. If that’s a “deflection”, then so too is the original analogy.

    Reply
  4. Nullzero

    So the late term abortions that weren’t part of the plan with the 8th referendum are clearly very much part of plan then?

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Sponsored Link
Broadsheet.ie