117 thoughts on “Sunday’s Papers

      1. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

        one thing is for sure the last year has really brought out a nasty streak in a lot of people

      2. SOQ

        Huge protests in France, Switzerland, Romania, Australia and Italy about to have national strike, only begrudgingly covered by main media and then only to slant it. All stories quickly switch on script to the fact that the majority want unvaccinated restrictions, which is then evidenced by the amount of people who have at least one jab. The inference being that everyone who is vaccinated supports discriminatory passports, which many do not- obvious propaganda.

        In the case of The Daily Mail, as regularly point out in the comments here, is primarily an English paper and there is an optical agenda at play. Fair play play to the English for their backbone because they are having a hard job even attempting to introduce such there, so the more of the “British Isles” already complying, the better. The “British Isles” is their term not mine of course.

        1. Tom J

          A national strike you say, is that not just a self imposed lockdown, like stay at home don’t go to work.

          1. Micko

            Wait a sec.

            So left wing protestors WANT vaccine mandates in place and for those who are choosing not to be vaccinated to be fined and / or possibly lose their jobs / children starve because they don’t agree with them.

            Doesn’t sound like a very left wing ideal to me.

            From Wiki:
            Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on “ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism”

            Think they may have lost their way a bit… very different from the left wing ideals I grew up with.

    1. Rosette of Sirius

      Nah. My marathoning days are well behind me. Last one run was 2012 in Berlin. I’m still good for a max of about 13-14 miles but tend not to go beyond about 8-10 miles nowadays as I can run pretty fast (and I prefer to run quick than long) before my ankles start to moan about how they’ll ruin my week for me. Played rugger a bit as a young lad and broke both of them a couple of times. Started to really catch up on me when I hit 40 and now I’m 50, well, no more marathons for me.

      Funny, my fastest ever time tho was Paris in 2005 when I skirted a 2:58 – first time I only broke 3h. 34 and in my absolute marathoning peak back then. *sigh*

      1. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

        I know lot of lads like that early rugby and football and boxing coming to haunt them,
        Still fast sounds good, I am struggling to come back from bubs don’t think I’ll reach full marathon again…sad face

        1. Rosette of Sirius

          I played on the wing – was very quick – so I avoided a lot of the kinds of stuff the bigger lads get hit with. But my ankles and knees got a hammering.

          There’s nothing quite like the excitement of a marathon morning tho and the anticipation for the start. I do miss it somewhat. Is it a case of finding the time to train being the challenge given the little one?

          1. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            yeah I had a few set backs with complications so had to do a lot of strength exercises and physio, hero to zero :) plus yes time constraints,
            I have hammered in a Mon, Wed and Saturday night run once she’s down but I only really have an hour, running for me has always been about freedom and unwinding, never more so !
            There’s nothing like knowing you are ready on the big day, that you have put in the work, the nerves fall away, you feel and look great and off you go, few well earned pints after.
            I’ll settle for getting back to a decent half.

          2. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            NEW RECORD
            Elisha Rotich remporte le Schneider Electric Marathon de Paris 2021 en 02:04:21
            Elisha Rotich wins the Schneider Electric Marathon de Paris 2021 in 02:04:21

          3. goldenbrown

            I tried marathons in my 30’s and 40’s usually with the next door neighbour…lol I’m not an athlete or anything I managed 11 in total…worst experience I got sick at Terenure but because of charity shiz I forced myself home for a 5:40 nearly in the dark ugh…best time was a 3:44 in NY the excitement and adrenaline of event itself probably – which used to be at least a very spectacular affair. I miss the training and the events themselves I must admit….it’s something that despite my gra for the cycling it just can’t touch somehow for a plodder like me.

          4. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            I’m a bit of a lone wolf, like running with my dogs. I ran with my X’s, iorn man fanatic, the other a champion boxer and I hated it 9/10, just too competitive, the only time I had a runner partner I loved was my best pal in Paris, we’d be in stitches, go for massive lunches after long runs and solve all the world’s problems, just very well matched, it’s a rare find. I was so happy my current partner didn’t want to run with me !

          5. Rosette of Sirius

            True story. I once worked with a lad about 20 years ago and I talked him into his first Dublin marathon. He was 39 at the time and I was 30. We trained a little bit at lunchtime but lived a good way apart so didn’t get to train with each other properly. Anyways. He was a quick runner and as I was well able for a solid sub 6 minute mile over a 10 miler and faster agin at 10k, he could easily keep up. He ran when he was a kid quite competitively – like me – middle distance and cross country – but we were 6 years apart in age so we never crossed paths. Anyhoo. Day of the race we lined up together and off we went. I was on a solid 6:50m pace and feeling great. He, looked at me and said he wanted to pick up the pace and was gone. He was one of the fastest Irish finishers that day and well within the top 20 overall. Well below 2:28. It was unreal. He didn’t know he had it in him. It was all natural ability and had us all wondering what could have been had he gotten back into running a lot earlier.

          6. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            that’s amazing, yeah some people are naturals and it’s beautiful, like watching a beautiful horse

          7. Fergalito

            Isn’t that the beauty of getting up off your arse and trying something new Rosette.

            Sport is so important, outdoors exercise really. We’re designed to be out in the fresh air and active. Great for body, mind and spirit. Really makes you feel confident when you achieve or exceed your own expectations of yourself.

  1. Nullzero

    Unvaccinated people should be subjected to restrictions?

    Should they not be allowed to leave their house? Should they be lose their jobs?

    Because as it stands if you’re unvaccinated you are subjected to a host of restrictions; No pubs or restaurants will allow you entry, you can’t go to the cinema or theater if you’re so inclined. Essentially you can’t do anything a person might like to do with their time, but the angry Mob wants more restrictions…

    No doubt Pat Kenny and Duffy will be pushing this agenda on the radio from tomorrow onwards.

        1. SOQ

          For all age groups with the exception of under 18- those with 2 doses are (per 100 0000) HIGHER CoVid-19 numbers than those with none?

          Page 13- a huge jump in the vaccinated 40-49 group- am I somehow misreading that table?

    1. Nigel

      Antivaxxers are getting what they wanted – it’s becoming more and more personalised, more and more about them, more and more of a culture war. They’ve been trying to frame this as a massive injustice against their personal freedom all aong, while everyone else has been trying to remember what it’s really all about – the virus. Earlier in the week people were mocking someone who expressed concern about the behaviour of the virus – but that’s exactly what determines, or should be determining, our responses – the behaviour of the virus. I’m genuinely sorry unvaccinated peple are inconvenced and can’t wait until it’s all over – but the virus and its variants do not care and can’t be subected to appeals for fairness and equality.

      1. Man On Fire

        The virus is so indiscriminant it now targets the vaccinated, so unfair, anti-vaxxers getting what they want..

        1. Nigel

          Reframing it into a them vs us culture war, not a public health emergency, as if the virus or its variants can be pwned in an online comment section.

          1. E'Matty

            Except it’s been the health officials, government and media who have applied a strategy of division ably abetted by your kind online as they demonized one section of Irish society after another. The students, young people in general, street drinkers and people enjoying the outdoors together in Spring, rugby teams, GAA teams and supporters, beach goers, hill walkers, professional athletes, and more. The unvaccinated just the latest group to face public demonisation from this cabal of gangsters.

      2. Micko

        Sure Nigel. You sound sorry…

        “If getting 92pc of population to take vaccine isn’t enough, what will be?”

        Larissa Nolan in the Indo. At least some journos have the guts to call this rubbish out.

        Behind Indo’s paywall unfortunately, but worth reading if you can.


        1. Nigel

          That is actually an important question that will be determined by
          a) the behaviour of the virus
          b) how effective our responses are.
          That’s it. End of.

          I am sympathetic for the inconvenciences inflicted on unvaccinated, inflicted on everyone, really some of which have been way more extreme than not being able to get in some place for a pint. I haven’t a shred of sympathy for the ones who act like this is all to get at them or who use it to drive dangerous conspiracy theories about culling the population, etc.

          (I missspelled conpsiracy as conspitacy and now I dub them constipatory theories for reasons I’m sure you can all work out for yourselves.)

          1. Micko

            “ I am sympathetic for the inconvenciences inflicted on unvaccinated”

            There is no inconvenience anymore Nigel.

            I and others have CHOSEN not to get this particular vaccine for our own reasons – whatever they may be.

            If that means that society will (try to) segregate me and my family, then so be it.

            If I haven’t broken under government manipulation and propaganda by now – then I never will.

            So, we can forget about the 7% of outliers ever getting vaccinated now I think.

            The real question is how far are the 93% of vax’d people willing to support government policy to segregate and blame the “unclean.”

            Ronan Glynn actually called out the unvaccinated few in his “fireside chat” this week. (A chat the Government knew nothing about apparently)

            Public RTE broadcasters like Pat Kenny and Joe Duffy doing the same. With the (likely) pause in lifting of restrictions for everyone, being blamed on the unvax’d.

            “Ummmm,,, We can’t give you your full freedoms back, coz of this dirty lot – so yeah soz.”

            I have faith the Irish people will show us what they are really made of – and where to shove these vaccine passes.

            It might take a while, but we’ll get there. :-)

          2. Nigel

            ‘If that means that society will (try to) segregate me and my family, then so be it.’

            No, it means society will inflict minor inconveniences on you until the health emergency is over while you try to dramatise it as some sort of vindictive punishment directed at you personally.

            ‘government policy to segregate and blame the “unclean.”’

            I think you mean ‘protect the unvaccinated.’ If being unvaccinated becomes stigmatised it will largely because of your own efforts to make it so, a self-fulfilling prophecy. ‘Calling out the unvaccinated’ is probably counter-productive and unhelpful – if the representatives here are anything to go by they’re a prickly, reactionary bunch – but it’s also flattering the self-image of yourselves as brave victims of unfair government policy. I’m not sure what the answer is or what the outcome will be but what has to determine it is a) the behaviour of the virus and variants and b) the effectiveness of our responses, and not your drama.

            If ‘getting there’ coincides with the pandemic coming to an end and public health measures becoming unnecessary I’m sure at this stage you’ll still have no trouble fitting it into your new personal mythology.

          3. Micko

            “ until the health emergency is over ”

            Do you feel like we are closer to the emergency being over?

          4. Nigel

            Yes. We were completely locked down, now we’re not. The full reopening is not being threatened by some weird desire to punish the unvaccinated, but by the behaviour of the virus and the effectiveness of our response. It’s just as wrong to blame the unvaccinated as it is to claim the vaccine isn’t working, when the actual problem could well be the wild card of the Delta variant, (or some other complex soundbite-resistant imponderable or big mix of all those things etc etc.) And if we spend all our time arguing about the former, we lose sight of the latter, and only get more disconnected from what’s actually going on.

          5. Micko


            Lad queuing up in a mask to eagerly show his “I’m a good citizen” health status via an government mandated smartphone app to go to McDonalds, doesn’t think his life is inconvenienced…

            Have a think there for a second about which one of us is really “inconvenienced”.

          6. Nigel

            Wow, you… tricked me? Into showing you the basic courtesy of thinking about the words of someone I’m having a conversation with? Good one…

          7. SOQ

            OMG- Nigel- I recognise you now from the Boilerhouse before it became health certs only- how are you?

            I got a txt from Gráinne down the clap clinic to check if your syphilis had cleared but you had gone all masked up covid-19 vaccination stuff by then- so I couldn’t say.

          8. Nigel

            The ol’ syphilis cleared up nicely, thanks for that Christmas present by the way, but I was particularly glad the dose of raging bumhole vanished when we stopped hanging out.

      3. SOQ

        A culture war? What country do you think you are living in? This is not about vaccinated vs unvaccinated, it is the public vs authoritarians.

        There is zero scientific evidence that passports reduce infections- ZERO.

        But as you are so fond of the US political ‘culture’- 72% of black people between the ages of 18 and 44 are unvaccinated in New York City, which means that 72% of black people between the ages of 18 and 44 cannot go to a bar or a club or an indoor restaurant.

        But they can sit or stand outside of course- progress eh?

        1. Nigel

          ‘This is not about vaccinated vs unvaccinated, it is the public vs authoritarians.’

          It’s about neither, it’s about effective public health responses versus ineffective. Trying to make it the public vs authoritarians is pure culture war reframing of an entirely different problem to create political discontent and drive extremism.That’s why you’re only interested in highly selective and highly superficial readings of data in order to derive definitive conclusions about a situation with very few certainties. It’s a fundamentally dishonest process.

          1. SOQ

            So what is so effective about discriminating against a section of the public who are no more likely to be infectious? Point me to one paper which even suggests such.

            If this really about viral transmission then why are those same people allowed to travel on the subway? Or would cutting off the cheap labour supply be a step too far?

            What I am interested in is the long term injuries from a experimental mNRA vaccine which has never been used on humans before, and given that the short term are still only emerging, that is a reasonable position to take.

          2. Nigel

            No sure why I should rehash the reasons for reducing indoor public interactions of unvaccinated, and therefore potentially more vulnerable, people, since you won’t acnowledge them as anything but an excuse to pick on you, for obscure but overwhelming reasons.

            I’ts funny when you say things like ‘how come they’re allowed travel on the subway’ as if it doesn’t illustrate a number of things, such as the lack of any real driving authoritarian impulse behind the measures, the willingness to prioritise life going on over strict enforcement, which might turn out to be a bad idea from the point of view of public health, or it might not, but shows that generally everyone just wants to go along to get along. Taking what could be a failure in terms of public health as proof of some kind of authoritarian project underway under the guise of public health is profoundly illogical.

            Another thing you fail to acknowledge in your harping on about the largely non-existent, entirely hypotheitical and consistently unconfirmed and uncorroborated vaccine realted injuries, is the long-term injuries from catching even a mild dose of covid.

          3. SOQ

            There is now a clear correlation emerging between high vaccination rates and rising infection rates which at best confirms what we already know- that vaccinated people are just as infectious. There is also zero evidence that vaccine passports have any impact whatsoever.

            The reason why NYC subways are an issue is that from an infectious disease standpoint, it just does not make sense. You can pass it in a bar or restaurant but not a subway? I call BS.

            If you believe that at this point there is no injuries then I agree with you- the grass is blue.


            And just one other point to challenge your shake ‘n vac left wing view- what happens to all the undocumented?

            How are they even going to get a pass in the first place if not registered?

          4. Nigel

            ‘There is now a clear correlation emerging between high vaccination rates and rising infection rates which at best confirms what we already know- that vaccinated people are just as infectious.’

            That you assume your conclusion with such absolute certainty and with no examination or analysis of the figures shows that you have abolutely no interest in whether it is actually true or not.

            ‘ I call BS. ‘

            It certainly makes BS if your claims that this is some sort of absulute authoirtarian exercise at work.

            It’s not that I believe there are no injuries it’s just that you and all the others here have indulged in reckless exaggeration, hysterical over-reacion and wild speculation on the issue and have no credibility to make any claims.

            ‘And just one other point to challenge your shake ‘n vac left wing view- what happens to all the undocumented?’

            I’m not sure what you mean? What specific situation are you talking about? In principle they should all be offered the same free vaccination as everyone else. It makes absolutely no sense to have the group of people with the most need to find work wandering around unvaccinated. The situation might require some sort of amnesty, wherever you’re talking about.

          5. SOQ

            Israel, Singapore, Gibraltar- all high vaccination rates and ALL high infection rates- we even have two counties in Ireland which are the same. How many will it take before you accept there is a pattern?

            I call BS on the NYC thing for sure because that is exactly what it is. Everyone can mix on the subway and are then segregated upon going into a venue- what else could it be?

            As for illegal immigrants, they will require a registration on the government systems in order to get a vaccine and a pass, whether than be an PPS number or some sort of health number- which they understandably will not do.

            And that includes Ireland of course. I know of one industry where there is a whole community of Ukrainians working here- near all of which are illegal.

            Wasn’t immigrant rights supposed to be supported by the left wing? Or have they been thrown to the wolves for the greater virtue too?

            You people really haven’t thought this through now have you?

          6. Nigel

            I have no problem accetping there might be a pattern, but if there is then it’s important to understand what it represents, not to make immediate definitive simplistic statements about what it means to suit your newly-found ideology.

            ‘what else could it be?’

            Typical of the half-measures and compromises that often come with public administrations?

            ‘Wasn’t immigrant rights supported by the left wing?’

            Literally told you what I think should be done in my previous comment, you’re tying yourself in rhetorical knots.

          7. SOQ

            New study by Harvard research on “the relationship between the percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases across 68 countries and across 2,947 counties in the US.”

            Key finding 1: “At the country-level, there appears to be no discernable relationship between percentage of population fully vaccinated and new COVID-19 cases in the last 7 days.”

            Key finding 2: “There also appears to be no significant signaling of COVID-19 cases decreasing with higher percentages of population fully vaccinated.”



          8. Nigel

            You realise if your interpretation is correct, and universal, this is an argument for more lockdowns and greater restrictions? Boom indeed.

        2. chris

          It’s appalling that you fail to recognize the very real damage that the ‘vaccines’ have done to people. To do so shows a callous disregard for those if they don’t conform to your ideological bent.

          Your whole argument in based on the fundamental fallacy that this was ever about the ‘public’s health’s – ergo you are clueless and cannot be expected to have even a remote understanding of what Covid-19 and it’s attendent policy’s mean.

          1. Nigel

            Perhaps because the ‘real’ damage done to people by vaccines remains very much in the realm of the hypothetical and the correlative and the poorly sourced, while the very real damage done by covid does not.

            Of course if you reject any possibility that the public health response to a public health emergency was about public health, then far more contorted and ever more fantastic justifications are required to explain otherwise perfectly explicable events.

      4. f_lawless

        “the virus and its variants do not care and can’t be subjected to appeals for fairness and equality”. This is a variation on “The Science is settled” – ie .”those in places of authority have spoken and we can never question their judgement”

        An authoritarian personality type is: “characterized by extreme obedience and unquestioning respect for and submission to the authority of a person external to the self, which is supposedly realized through the oppression of subordinate people.”

        An authoritarian mindset also in the grip of a monomania “while everyone else has been trying to remember what it’s really all about – the virus”.

        Of course there are other fundamental societal issues at stake here that will long outlast Covid. As former UK Supreme Court judge, Jonathan Sumption, put it:

        The next few years will see a radical transformation in the relationship between the state and its citizens and with it will come an equally fundamental change in our relations with each other. A change characterised by distrust, resentment and mutual hostility. In the nature of things, authoritarian governments fracture the societies which they govern.

        The use of political power as an instrument of mass coercion is corrosive. It divides and it embitters. In this case, it’s aggravated by a sustained assault on social interaction which will sooner or later loosen the glue which has helped us to deal with earlier crises. The unequal impact of the government’s measures erodes any sense of national solidarity…”

        1. Nigel

          ‘This is a variation on “The Science is settled” ‘

          This is literally ‘the science is unsetled because the behaviour of the virus and its variants is still outside of our control to some degree.’

          The rest of your comment is just strawmanning.

          ‘The use of political power as an instrument of mass coercion is corrosive. It divides and it embitters.’

          This fits with the culture war ant-vaxx movement, bitterly personalising public health measures as assaults on individual freedom, inventing complex theories to rationalise the motviation for such behaviour to create a paranoid sense of overwhelming evil directed at those who reject social responsibilty, creating an extremist political base who will accept any invented rationalisation for their behaciour as justification for trampling social contracts in order to gain power.

          1. Nigel

            Then he could have directly adressed what I write in my comments, not run off to a Wikipedia-sourced archetype.

  2. StevieP

    The Sunday World reports a ” new ” lead in the Jo Jo Dullard case with a trucker saying he saw a naked woman fleeing the village on the night she died.
    Apparently before he went to the cops in November last year he went back to familiarise himself with the area.
    He contacted Gardai on the night of the sighting but they didn’t seem interested.
    So rather than a ” new ” lead they had this information all the time.
    Unless it got lost.
    This has got Shergar-style police incompetence all over it.
    Taxi for Inspector O’Closeau.


  3. goldenbrown

    ugh that Patel wan…what a top drawer gowl!

    I watched her on Andrew Marr this morning, well worth a look back if you want to see what the body language of disingenuous looks like..when the politics finds her out eventually there’ll always be the oul Hallmark made for tv Xmas movie circuit for her lol

    very uncomfortable viewing, a spectacular disingenuous faker

  4. Nigel


    ‘…the accelerating disappearance of mountain glaciers worldwide has become one of the most visible and unsettling signs of global warming. The loss of glacial ice not only hastens sea-level rise, it has reduced fresh water supplies relied on by millions of people who live in the valleys below. Mountain glaciers have lost ice at a faster pace in the last 10 years than in the previous decade, according to an analysis of NASA satellite data published in Nature in April. The scientists who studied the data concluded that by mid-century, parts of mountain ranges around the world, including the Cascades and Rocky Mountains, are on track to be ice free.’

      1. Nigel

        We’ve been over this several times before, ad nauseum. Have you genuinely forgotten or are you just a wannabe edgelord?

        Literally right there next to that story:


        Here’s another retreating glacier:


        “This is such a huge area and rare event, but the risk of it happening is just going up because we have this warming climate,” Liljedahl said.


        ‘Since the 1990s, however, Greenland and Antarctic ice sheet mass loss and thermal expansion have accelerated sea level rise, while freshwater impoundment has decreased. As our climate continues to warm, the majority of this thermal energy is absorbed by the oceans, causing the volume of the water to expand. In fact, ice sheet melt and thermal expansion now account for about two-thirds of observed global mean sea level rise. Mountain glacier meltwater currently contributes another 20%, while declining freshwater water storage on land adds the remaining 10%.’

        Don’t be so cynically selective, Giggidy. That’s what trivial people do.

      2. goldenbrown

        Nigel’s not wrong about the climate problem
        admittedly my belief is that it’s just not practically solvable
        even if you did believe in it and went back to living in the 18th century or had the substantial funds required to electrify and insulate and bring efficiency to your life there’s always going to be more of the others who have no interest whatsoever in contributing or are too poor to do so. ultimately for me it’s tied at the hip with greedy capitalism and as things stand…without some sort of startrek-esque doctrine in play where money and stuff isn’t in the mix anymore…the human race will eventually eat itself
        shouldn’t we try? the absence of any serious Government led strategy I still think absolutely we should in our own individual way, like I fix things when they’re broken and it’s very satisfying actually – I’ve had the same dishwasher at home for 15 years now (I’ve repaired it twice) I have a gen1 iPhone SE and I run the same old car (older than many of the contributors probably on here) that disgusts the enthusiastic EV set out there but it’s the cleanest best maintained yoke you’ll ever see, show standard. I’d definitely use public transport more (if it existed lol)
        so I’d say give Nigel a break, none of us are in control, shout at your TD’s and just enjoy the day you have today with whomever is in your life and do your best

        1. GiggidyGoo

          We know there’s a climate change issue. I’m just giving an alternative take, this time from NASA, for balance purposes. It seems to get Nigel aerated when information such as that from NASA is posted.
          The question to Nigel is whether the NASA information I posted is true or untrue.

          1. Nigel

            That’s not what ‘alternative take’ really means. If what you posted proved something that was an alternative to something else, you should step up and state what that alternative is, otherwise it’s just basic insincere online sniping.

          2. GiggidyGoo

            Simple question then Nigel. Is the information in the link I supplied from NASA true or untrue. A simple yes or no will do.

            If yes, then your information is selective, with what intention I don’t know.
            If no, then why are you quoting NASA as well?

          3. Nigel

            Can you point to anything I said that makes you think I think it’s untrue? I’m obviously responding to, and you are tediously playing off of, the fact that climate change skeptics use this selectively to argue that climate change is not happening. Absent any actual commentrary from yourself I assume you to be doing the same,. If you’re not, then you’re either ignorant or, more likely, being a twit as your fantasticaly moronic yes/no demand implies. To which I would ask, why haven’t you responded to the selctive quoting of these same stories by the resident climate change skeptics? Why zero in on me for not posting something I have nonetheless discussed at several times over the past few months? Do I get up your nose somehow? Do you feel obliged to take me down a peg or two? Are you willing to sacrifice what passes for integrity and intellectual stature in pursuit of this self-appointed task? Because as you say yourself, the stories you claim I am not posting selectively (how does that even make sense) do not disprove climate change. They don’t prove or disprove anything. They’re not alternative to anything. So the charge of me posting things selectively doesn’t even make sense. I have not said that I think the story is unture, yet despite my posting other stories from the same source, you are accusing me doing so which, again makes no sense.

            The fact of the matter is, your major concern is to acheive some form of ‘gotcha’ on a commenter who is not saying anything you disagree with, but who, for whatever personal reason, you dislike. Cop on.

          4. GiggidyGoo

            So much for a yes or no answer. You are the prime marketeer and promoter of the ‘gotcha’.
            I’ve many times said here that climate change is happening. I challenge though the way you are portraying it with links from (in this case NASA) to support your argument, but when a link from the same source (NASA) is at odds with what you think, suddenly you can’t say whether you agree or not with what they say.
            Your answer, as it is to any poster who argue with you on any subject is to go into a diatribe. Clap clap.
            I see you still are avoiding the question. You can’t give a yes or no answer, which is a clear signifier that you don’t trust the source. Yet, you pulled out many quotes from the same source.

            Yes or no Nigel? Get the last word in with one of those two words.

          5. Nigel

            You’re such a try-hard. I have no problem accepting the evidence showing that Arctic ice grew this year, and have given neither you nor anyone else reasons for thinking I do. You’ve tortured logic so badly AI want a word.

            (Oh God, if I post this you’ll still demand a YES/NO, won’t you? YES you bore.)

          6. GiggidyGoo

            Like pulling teeth trying to get an answer, then finally you accept that there’s an argument to be proffered to counter somewhat your arguments.

            The report I referred to was 2015, and according to you, it has grown this year also. And in the intervening years more than likely.

            What was that you were saying about being selective?

            If you must post link after link after link, post after post after post to put forward your points, then do so with links and their sources that can’t be argued against. Look up Spire, Glasgow.

          7. Nigel

            Giggidy despite annual variations the decline has been steady since 1980, as you must have seen from a chart posted here yesterday, since you seem to have been keeping track of the conversations. Yet you keep acting as if you don’t know this, even though you must.

            The closest thing to a substantive argument you’ve made is that I didn’t post a particular link, a link you yourself acknowledge doesn’t prove or disprove anything about the broader trends in the Arctic or climate change, despite the fact that I’ve discussed the link, or others like it, several times over the last few months, once or twice with you. Clearly this has nothing to do with climate change and everything to do with some weird personal animosity you hold towards me.

          8. GiggidyGoo

            Yep – everyone you disagree with has some sort of personal animosity towards you. You think. Hence your penchant for diatribes.

          9. Nigel

            No, everyone I disagree with, I disagree with, and we argue. You keep saying you don’t disagree with me, but still want to pick a fight.

          10. GiggidyGoo

            Offering information (which you accept now as true information) isn’t picking a fight. It’s called discussion. Now look back over the threads and see who picks the fights, (you) and gets aerated when someone gives as good as he/she gets from you.
            Toughen up Nigel.

        2. Nigel

          ‘admittedly my belief is that it’s just not practically solvable’

          I apreciate the sentiment of the rest of your post, but this is simply untrue. On a practical level it’s entirely acheivable. That’s why we have to keep yelling at TDs and media outlets and world leaders and everyone else.

        3. Nigel he raps of

          Except it wasn’t new information and there was no question of me claiming it was untrue except in your need t justify jumping in antagonistically.

          1. Man On Fire

            Are glaciers growing Nigel?

            Some retreat, whilst others grow, this is perfectly normal. It’s what they do.

          2. GiggidyGoo

            Read back over your comments today and yesterday. I know you feel you have to have the last word on each thread, but by god, thickness is a forte of yours.

          3. Nigel

            ‘Are glaciers growing Nigel?’

            Trends observed over the past hundred years or so indicate that they are shrinking.

            ‘thickness is a forte of yours.’

            The closest you have come to showing that anything I have said so far is wrong is to claim that by not posting a particular story I am claiming it is untrue. However if you have been reading my comments over the last day or two, you must know that I commented at least once about the same story in a way that makes it clear I do not. Either you’re too thick to understand what I wrote, or you’re acting it.

          4. Man On Fire

            Nope, they shuffle and shift with the weather, some retreat in the Arctics or Greenland and grow in the Himalayas and vice versa, these shifts are entirely natural.

          5. Nigel

            Vying, no. I realise that this is some sort of zero-sum one-upmanship game for you, but when i keep making comments it means I am still here for the conversation, no matter how fractious.

            Unless it’s Man On Fire, of course. I’m totally messing around when I’m replying to him.

          6. GiggidyGoo

            ‘no matter how fractious.’
            At least you’ve defined yourself and admitted to posting in a manner typical of children.
            Says it all.

          7. Nigel

            If you say so Giggiidy. For some reason it really looms large in your consciousness.

            Man On Fire – that is not what the people who actually study glaciers say.

  5. FreeOurMinds

    Protect Basic Human Rights
    End Roman Catholic Slavery
    Baptism leads to Indoctrination

    Give the People back their BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to choose their own religion.

    Make Baptism Illegal NOW!

    Preaching and teaching that innocent newborn babies are born with “original sin” is one of the oldest tricks in the book, and it is in direct contravention to the very first Article of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union:
    Article 1:
    “Human dignity is inviolable. It must be respected and protected.”

    Preaching and teaching that newborn babies are born with “original sin” is an attack on human dignity.
    That is a FACT.

    Every single human should have the BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to choose their own religion, and baptism of newborn babies into ANY organised religion should be made illegal IMMEDIATELY.

    The European Court of Justice and the International Court of Justice of the United Nations have let everyone down on this so far. And that is just not good enough.

    The leading Judicial Institutions of the World have a global responsibility to have the COURAGE to stand up to powerful institutions and forces in the world, and protect the BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS of the HUMAN MIND, and especially to protect the BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS of those who cannot protect themselves.

    The human race will only have a chance to reach its full potential when the shackles of organised religions have fallen from the human mind.

    Please like and share this post near and far, across the world, until there are global changes in this regard.

    Thank you

    1. chris

      “The human race will only have a chance to reach its full potential when the shackles of organised religions have fallen from the human mind.”

      Recent events would beg to differ.

    2. Tarfton Clax

      Agreed. Seems reasonable. But I can’t see it happening here, Europe, or in the middle east, or anywhere really, except possibly Japan, or maybe China.

    3. Cú Chulainn

      Well, freeourminds, when I caved to the big boss’s pressure and agreed to a baptism of little (now bigger than me) Cú.. only didn’t the priest give the boss a booklet explaining the whole baptism original sin thing the night before the big water event.. fierce indignation ensued.. the upshot; the boss confronted the priest who agreed it was nonsense.. we then proceeded to have an Irish pagan – be cleansed and welcome to your family and the world..so, yeah, organised religion is ploppy.. but most of us get on with with

      1. Poor oul divil

        Let me get this right
        Your wife wanted a Catholic baptism rite but didn’t want to accept the ethos that came with it?

        1. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

          sounds like most token Catholics of Ireland. …I’d call that progress

  6. johnny

    apols-i dont have a sub,but given the absolute state Irish business journalism i doubt i missed anything.

    I could’ve been a contender. I could’ve been somebody.


    Johnny Ronan has met his match and more,they are suited and booted thugs or bad debt collectors,old school NY predators with suits,the Viper with degress,its awful for Ireland and FFG need to be held to account for inviting them,but it could not happen noicer guy,they are gonna scorch and burn Ronan’s fake empire of debt,the modus operandi is pay us now or we burn it all…..don’t go making them MAD-mutual assured destruction:)

    FFG is responsible for this mess-what is NAMA?

  7. ce

    Light Sunday Evening Read:

    It’s bizarre to watch an individual chastise the nurses and doctors about Covid being fake as they sit on the floor gasping for air while a cytokine storm roars in their lungs. The time between each word is drawn out while they are trying to draw in as many breaths as they can.

    “Would you like the oxygen back on, sir?” a nurse will inquire after another failed escape. They accept our help back to their room. Regain their breath with help from the oxygen. And then the escape plotting starts all over again. Another patient who was on a ventilator kept telling us Covid wasn’t real after they regained consciousness.”

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