‘Hardcore Cranks’ [Updated]



Last night.

Claire Byrne Live on RTÉ One.

Joe O’Shea: “We have to start compelling people because a lot of them seem to think that ‘because it’s not affecting me directly, maybe I’m young, maybe I’m healthy, or maybe I believe some post I’ve seen on Facebook saying Bill Gates wants me to get vaccinated because he wants to turn me into a robot’, that we have to start making their lives complicated as well.”

Claire Byrne
: “You sound really angry with people who’ve decided not to get vaccinated – for whatever reason that may be, that they made that decision?”

O’Shea: “Yeah, I am angry, and I think people are angry because we want to get out of this. We want our lives back, we want to get back to normality, we want to work again, we want to see people again, we want to have a Christmas that we’re not talking about vaccination rates or infection rates, but we’re actually talking about our Christmas plans and meeting our loved ones. We want our families to be protected, we want our communities to be protected. And that’s why there are no, no scientific arguments to be made for not getting vaccinated. I’m not a virologist but the anti-vaxxers are not virologists either.

“There’s no debate because you can’t debate somebody who believes in a religious belief almost, a cult like thing of, you know, ‘well, I’m not going to get vaccinated, I’m not going to listen to my doctor, I’m not going to listen to the overwhelming evidence and opinion of the world’s leading scientists’.

“You can’t debate with them. At this stage, we’re talking about almost hardcore cranks who are just not prepared to…”

Byrne: “Yeah, but Joe you’re talking then about forcing people to take a vaccine, if they have decided, as they have a right to decide, they’ve a right to decide ‘look, I don’t want to take…’ for whatever reason.”

O’Shea: “Good…yeah, they have a right to decide and if they want to lock themselves out of society, because they will not live up to the responsibilities that they should be facing, then yeah, they have a right to decide that. You can’t force people, nobody is talking about forcing people to take vaccines, marching them down to health centres. But you can compel people, or you can let them know that if that is the decision you take, then unfortunately we cannot have you in our spaces, we cannot have you with the risk you pose to society, to our people, to our loved ones. It’s not forcing, but it’s definitely compelling.”


O’Shea: “…What we have seen in France, especially, is that workplace mandates have worked. In France, after Macron brought in these laws, and they were very, very strict and they were very, very resisted as well by the media, by the politicians and by the public, the rate of vaccination went up significantly. So, definitely try to persuade, definitely engage, there are people with real concerns, of course there are. But we also have to start being a bit more serious as well about who we allow to be in our spaces if we’re ever going to escape this pandemic. Fifty thousand new cases in the UK today, 50, 000 in one day. You know, we don’t want to mess around with this.”

Byrne: “What about mandatory vaccination, Joe?”

O’Shea: “No, I don’t think anybody is seriously suggesting that. I don’t think it would be possible and I don’t think it would be feasible, I don’t..you can’t force people…”

Byrne: “Yeah, but you say that but…can I just bring you the results of our poll on that because we asked 1,000 adults on our Amarach smartphone panel, the question: Are you in favour of mandatory vaccination against Covid-19? Have a look at this…

…46% of people say yes, 42% say no, and 12% don’t know. So Joe it’s a sizeable figure. I mean 46% of the 1,000 people say ‘yeah, mandatory’.”

O’Shea: “I’m absolutely shocked with that figure to be honest with you because I can’t see how that would be possible, I don’t think that’s a road we want to go down, I don’t think there’s any country in the world that’s thinking of going down that road.”

Byrne: “I thought you’d be in favour of it, given what you said earlier on?”

O’Shea: “No, no, I’m in favour…if people want to decide, then they decide to lock themselves out effectively of public life, that’s what they’re deciding to do. I don’t think you can forcefully vaccinate people. And of course we’re talking about people who have already taken 10 or 11, 12 vaccinations in their life to date and didn’t have to do all the research on that. And if they cut their hand open on a rusty nail tomorrow and were offered a tetanus shot, they wouldn’t be asking to do the research on that either. You can persuade some people but there will be a hardcore people who, for their own wilful ignorance, will not be persuaded so what we can do now, what is happening, what we’re seeing around the world is effectively, OK, but you cannot be in our public spaces, you cannot be in our lives.”

Good times.

Watch back here.

Sponsored Link

177 thoughts on “‘Hardcore Cranks’ [Updated]

  1. freewheeling

    Hey Joe, vilifying the unvaccinated won’t make the vaccine you took work better.
    You want out of this? Take it to the politicians and experts that locked you down and conned you to take the vaccine as the way out. They could lift all restrictions tomorrow. You want them to. They don’t want to.

  2. goldenbrown

    I’m not agreeing with any of this BUT ye completely missed the punchline with that clip BS….ye need to watch further on a bit if it’s available

    I caught this scuffle while flicking about last night…and CB was doing her usual baity setup thing here….

    it progresses on to where the blonde wonder puts tanks on the lawn with some nonsense family fortunes survey the CB krew picked out of their arse about a majority of people supporting forced mandatory vaccination and in fairness to yer man who seemed fairly taken aback at this he at least shot her hyperbolic nonsense down calmly and clearly

    just think this is a bit unfair on the fella

  3. Ah sure jaysus you know yourself

    Does he not understand that talk like that is every bit as dangerous as he thinks (possibly true) the unvaccinated are! Daft ejeets like this (and Kenny and Duffy) only help to make people more entrenched in their opinion. If their objective is to get people – who don’t want to be vaccinated- vaccinated, they’re certainly making a balls of it by going this way.

    1. Cui Bono?

      He makes no sense and is ignorant of the scientific data. These vaccines do not give immunity and do not stop transmission and yet he thinks the unvaccinated are going around spreading it.

      He’s completely propagandised and is the one who is religious and cult like. He concedes he can’t debate but his reason is ridiculous.

      We are not anti-vaxxers BTW.

      This has really become 1984.

        1. SOQ

          In July, the rapper Zuby tweeted “20 Things I’ve Learned (Or Had Confirmed) About Humanity During The ‘Pandemic’ which is very prolific.

          Two of those points keep popping up in my mind since.

          2/ At least 20% of the population has strong authoritarian tendencies, which will emerge under the right conditions.

          10/ When sufficiently frightened, most people will not only accept authoritarianism, but demand it.


          It really is worth a read. IMO he is one of the most astute public facing people in the UK at the moment.

        1. E'Matty

          If we were using our real names here, that’d be an actionable defamation case right there. Please provide an example of me lying on this site.

    2. K. Cavan

      RuilleBuille, if you genuinely believe that any of O’Shea’s statements make any sense & you’re not just saying so for the craic, you’re not just a fascist but a pretty dim one.

  4. Micko

    Well thanks for that state sponsored message there Mr O’Shea

    Brought to you by the same government who wouldn’t let you buy shoes for your children 6 months ago.


    1. Nullzero

      Think of all the lives saved by people not being able to buy kids shoes, or indeed clothes for that matter. Any child that was out of nappies couldn’t have new clobber for fear of imminent death, just as well kids don’t grow out of clothes or shoes as fast as you can buy them.

      But trust the government folks…

      1. E'Matty

        Questioning the government even when they contradict themselves is undemocratic, or so RTE and the Covid shills would have people believe. Sure doesn’t everybody know that in a true democracy everyone obeys the government and State officials without question. Obedience is freedom. Questioning is fascism, or something like that. It’s so blatant right now but you still have the Nigels and Ruille Builles thinking they’re the progressive liberal defenders of democracy. The conditioning is strong in these people. They haven’t a clue what’s going on.

        1. Nigel

          You don’t ‘question’ the government, you invent ever more elaborate and baroque reasons why every statement and action of the government fits your paranoid world-view.

          1. Nigel

            We’re being killed off, they’re being groomed to replace us. Unless they get vaccinated, in which case… something.

        2. K. Cavan

          It’s a strange one, E’Matty, I’m not the least bit surprised by Zuby’s comments, referred to by SOQ & best experienced in Zuby’s own fabulously sonorious tones, yet the level of self-delusion among the aforementioned Fake Liberals, as they chant for persecution of the untermensch, laying waste to every long-cherished tenet of Democracy while believing their own liberal credentials remain intact, well, it’s breathtaking.
          You know, if I was to go full bio-fascist, like Nigel, for example & was to find myself agreeing with this rancid Waffen bogman turn from O’Shea, I doubt if I’d have the gall to continue to self-identity as anything other than the ranting, invade-the-Sudetenland Nazi I had become. I’d just go for the black SS uniform and a column of tanks & off to Nuremberg with me.
          Somebody needs to take the bunker scene from Downfall and, in a detour from the usual trick of changing the subtitles, just overlay O’Shea’s bug-eyed, fascist rant.

  5. Nigel

    Really unhelpful, especially since the point is that the deliberately unvaccinated are now amongst the vulnerable part of our population and restrictions are there to protect not punish, and reframing them as punishment both feeds their paranoia and puts the non-deliberate vulnerable in the same position of being punished rather than protected.

    But it does bring to mind that the coterie of cranks here will certainly get mad (and feel oh so vindicated) at this, while for the past two years there has been pretty much nothing, NOTHING they won’t say about others or accuse others of. Child abuse, mind control, mass murder, genocide, casual deception, utter corruption, and cartoonish levels of evil reeking from every utterence of anyone who disagrees with them. We’ve seen them approvngly link to that story about India giving the death sentence to anyone who suggests Ivermectin might no be all that effective as an anti-viral treatment. References to new Nuremberg trials, executions.

    Just worth bearing in mind their rhetoric when considering this.

    1. bisted

      …well said Nigel…(not the first time I’ve agreed with you but the first time I’ve felt compelled to acknowledged it)

    2. goldenbrown

      speaking of rhetoric I’d include the cheap Fleet Street opinion journalism that seems to be alive and well here in Dublin

      it’s almost like some of the krew used to work on Jeremy Kyle

      whilst you and I might know the difference between CB and a serious journalist there’s many out there that don’t

      1. Nigel

        True, but that’s one of a whole bunch of institutions and systems that were in the process of being eroded or degraded long before the pandemic – we go into every crisis or difficulty with these systems and institutions worse off than the crisis before, we see the effects, and we carry on as before because we’ve been persuaded that we don’t have the power to make our elected representatives fix or protect them, and we also accept that it is literally part of the ‘logical’ process of capitalism for commerical interests to degrade and destroy them. More self-fulfilling prophecies.

        I was thinking this morning about post-crash austerity, and how we were told that politicians were making the hard choices, when, no, austerity was literally the easiest, most obvious and laziest choice they could have made. We keep making the easy choices when we refuse to fix or protect those systems and institutions.

    3. K. Cavan

      Nigel, you contrast people who decide they don’t want to take part in the roll-out of an experimental medical technology to those who would use every form of coercion, intimidation, power & psychology to make them do so, against their wishes.
      To point to what these oligarchs are engaged in, to question their motives, even to the point of ascribing malevolence to them, in an attempt to understand an historically unprecedented scenario, this is what any rational person should do, in fact it’s an absolute necessity for the proper functioning of our battered & bruised democracy.
      You ascribe none but the most benign intent to these elites, based on nothing but your own, subjective feelings, yet feel that anyone questioning the motives of these people is, firstly, somehow less well-informed & secondly, less well-intentioned than you, a crank, as you say.
      Supporting evil, even by dint of naivety or a compliant nature, is far, far worse than levelling accusations at & questioning the motives of innocent billionaires.
      If it turns out that Bill Gates is a megalomaniacal eugenecist, as his public statements imply, you, Nigel, will be guilty of supporting pure evil. If he’s just a guy who wants to make billions from selling us useless drugs, no harm done.
      As for your assertion that the unvaccinated are being protected by having their Human Rights removed, that just reveals your inner authoritarian, in all it’s distastefully patronising nastiness.

  6. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

    people are so ugly,
    you know until this year I actually liked humans, I believed in their essential goodness, actually they are just rotten self serving cruel loons,
    it would make you want to feck off to some remote island as off grid as possible than be part of this ” community of loved ones ” fupping joke.

      1. goldenbrown


        and the likes of edgelords like Claire Byrne, Pat Kenny et al DEFINITELY ain’t helping that

      2. K. Cavan

        Yes, freewheeling, but history teaches us that these are the methods used by demagogues, fascists, nazis, communists, a whole rag-bag of nasties. They are not the methodology of people who are asking for nothing more than the rights granted to them in the Nuremberg Codes in 1947.

    1. scottser

      Couldn’t agree more J.
      There’s a real ugliness to the rhetoric around the unvaccinated and it seems to given far too much exposure in the media when ordinarily it would be dismissed as dangerous, divisive and cruel.

      1. K. Cavan

        For me, Micko, I realized this when I threw off that fear myself. Having been in that state, I fully understand what it does to someone.
        On the other hand, not everybody reacts to fear by terrorising & bullying others. Fear is a good excuse but it is unfortunate that there is so much behaviour & so many attitudes that require excuses.
        There are also those who are motivated by malice, hatred & disregard for the equal rights of their fellows, I cannot but include some contributors to this forum among them.

      2. Verbatim

        As Gandhi said, when asked who is the enemy?
        “The enemy is fear. We think it is hate; but, it is fear”

        As someone who doesn’t live in fear, I like to remember this about my fellows, not everyone has as much.

  7. U N M U T U A L

    …this is currently on his wiki page, under personal life. :-)

    “O’Shea has recently attempted to revive his career by adopting extreme left-wing fascist views on segregation and discrimination against those who choose to remain unvaccinated due to having natural immunity.”

    1. E'Matty

      Brilliant. Just took a look there. Started his career at that eminent power house of journalism, The Star! The guy is clearly a low witted fool with next to no understanding of the virus or the vaccines.

          1. jungleman

            Not what I said. But he clearly has a much bigger audience than pseudo intellectual matty here. I’m just pointing it out as I’m sure it irritates him no end that his only profile is as an anonymous crank on broadsheet while this “low witted fool” is on national tv!

  8. Kdoc

    By the way, he’s not in favour of mandatory vaccines. Joe is right about the army of cranks because for them it’s not really about the vaccines – listen to people like Carey, Croft and Heasman on social media and you’ll soon realise that. When it’s over they’ll move on to, among others,5g, chemtrails and seeing paedophiles on every street corner. Social media and street protests are a way of life for them now, and some are doing nicely, financially speaking, from it.

    1. Optimus Grime

      Totally agree. I see some of the so called “commentators” that get posted here on BS have already moved onto The Climate Conspiracy & Greenwashing – It’s 18 degrees in the latter half of October! Are ye absolutely sure nothing is up climatewise? And a load of people spouting “What about the science?” never stood in a lab or did analysis in their life. I listed to Ivor “Twit Emperor” Cummins during the pandemic and he did solid analysis around waves and epidemic patterns but when vaccinations kicked in and levels started dropping he had to move on to other nonsense around MSM and freedoms!

      1. Nullzero

        Warm weather in October? In Ireland? Where Christmas mornings have traditionally been mild affairs and true cold weather never takes hold until January or February? You call Al Gore and I’ll grab as many polar bears as I can before they go extinct.

        1. Nigel

          This is so wonderfully non-specific in terms of actual data, just a vague and highly localised sense of nostalgic recollection.

          1. Nullzero

            Good old Nigel. Show the stats to back up the notion of sub zero temperatures being common place in Ireland in the month of October then.

          2. Nigel

            Well I don’t know where you pulled the notion of ‘sub zero’ temperatures from, but here’s the Met Eireann statement on September:

            ‘All mean air temperatures across the country were above their Long-Term Average (LTA) for the month. Deviations from mean air temperatures ranged from
            1.1 °C (14.3 °C mean temperature) at Malin Head, Co Donegal to 2.3 °C (15.5 °C mean temperature) at Phoenix Park, Co Dublin. Mean temperatures for the
            month ranged from 13.6 °C (1.6 °C above its LTA) at Knock Airport, Co Mayo to 15.7 °C at both Sherkin Island, Co Cork (1.4 °C above its LTA) and Shan-
            non Airport, Co Clare (1.5 °C above its LTA) (its warmest September on record (length 71 years)).’

            The statement for October isn’t available yet, obviously because it’s still October, but perhaps bookmark the page and revisit it next month and see what it has to say.

            Here’s October 2020:


            ‘All mean air temperatures across the country were below their Long-Term Average for the month. Deviations from mean air temperature ranged from -0.8 °C
            (10.3 °C mean temperature) at Shannon Airport, Co Clare to -0.1 °C (10.1 °C, 9.4 °C mean temperature) at Phoenix Park, Co Dublin and Mullingar, Co West-
            meath respectively. Mean temperatures ranged from 8.6 °C (0.3 °C below its LTA) at Knock Airport, Co Mayo to 11.7 °C (0.4 °C below its LTA) at Sherkin Is-
            land, Co Cork. The month’s highest temperature was reported at Newport, Co Mayo on Saturday 3rd with a temperature of 16.8 °C. The month’s lowest air mini-
            mum was recorded on Thursday 1st at Markree, Co Sligo with -0.8 °C while the lowest grass minimum was -3.0 °C reported at both Oak Park, Co Carlow on
            Thursday 1st and Moore Park, Co Cork on Thursday 22nd. More than half of stations reported ground frost. The number of days with ground frost ranged from
            zero days at a few stations to 12 days at Markree, Co Sligo. Less than half of stations reported air frost. The number of days with air frost ranged from zero days at
            Phoenix Park, Co Dublin to 1 day at both Markree, Co Sligo and Mount Dillon, Co Roscommon.’

          3. Nullzero

            We also had a hot July. Must be climate change. Oh hang on it only happens every few years, maybe it isn’t indicative of anything.

            Pity posting a pile of text isn’t an instant win.

          4. Nigel



            ‘Temperature: July station maximum temperature records broken with tropical nights reported
            All mean air temperatures across the country were above their Long-Term Average (LTA) for the month. Deviations from mean air temperature ranged from 0.5 °C
            (14.9 °C, the month’s lowest mean temperature) at Malin Head, Co Donegal to 2.3 °C (16.2 °C mean temperature) at Knock Airport, Co Mayo. Mean temperatures were
            as much as 17.8 °C (1.5 °C above its LTA) at Shannon Airport, Co Clare. All the month’s highest and lowest temperatures were recorded at Mount Dillon, Co Roscom-mon with both lowest air and grass minimum reported on Thu 1st with an air minimum temperature of 5.1 °C while the lowest grass minimum was -0.2 °C. The high maximum was reported on Wed 21st with a temperature of 30.8 °C (its highest maximum temperature for July on record (length 13 years)). There was no air frost reported this month. Mount Dillon, Co Roscommon was the only station to report ground frost on Thu 1st. It was the warmest July at most stations since 2013. Heatwaves7 were reported at 14 stations between Fri 16th and Sun 25th, with six stations reporting heatwaves lasting 10 consecutive days. These were Athenry, Co Galway, Claremorris, Co Mayo, Mount Dillon, Co Roscommon, Shannon Airport, Co Clare, Moore Park, Co Cork and Ballyhaise, Co Cavan. Valentia Observatory, Co Kerry reported two tropical nights (where the night-time temperature does not fall below 20 °C) on the nights of Wed 21st and Thu 22nd (a very rare occurrence in Ireland). Valentia also reported its highest July maximum temperature since 1976 with 28.3 °C on Thu 22nd. Six other stations along with Mount Dillon, Co Roscommon reported their high-est July maximum temperature on record. These were Mace Head, Co Galway with 28.4 °C on both Wed 21st and Thu 22nd (length 16 years), Ballyhaise, Co Cavan with 28.9 °C on Wed 21st (length 16 years), Newport, Co Mayo with 30.0 °C on Wed 21st (length 29 years), Gurteen, Co Tipperary with 29.1 °C on Thu 22nd (length 13 years), Athenry, Co Galway with 29.5 °C on Sat 17th (length 11 years) and Knock Airport, Co Mayo with 28.0 °C on Wed 21st (length 23 years). ‘

          5. Nullzero

            Hmmm is right.

            Cast your memory back to the summer of 2020…https://www.rte.ie/news/weather/2020/0903/1163088-summer-weather/
            A dire season in terms of temperatures and rainfall, I’m guessing that’s where you diverge into “well it’s climate change not global warming” as that set of facts doesn’t suit your narrative.

            I readily admit there needs to be cha he’s made to how human beings pollute the planet, but the climate change cult is not an honest operation.
            Do you believe that copy and paste job does anything to refute my assertion that we get hot summers every few years?

            We had a scorcher in 2006 for example, 2007 was average and then 2008 was a wash out, we didn’t have another good summer until 2013. But yeah it’s getting hotter here every year, even if it isn’t based upon nothing but the anecdotal observation that we’ve had a few warm days in October this year.

          6. Nigel

            No, I think long term charts of monthly trends would show that because the annual variations in trends that otherwise hold steady over the course of several years or decades will help create a sense of ‘normal’ as you experience them, but when I went looking for some I found those monthly statements first and I thought they were pretty cool (hah).

          7. K. Cavan

            So, Nigel, you attempt to rubbish Nullzero’s undeniably accurate reference to long-established weather patterns because it didn’t have accompanying data & graphs, in defence of a statement by Optimus that two warm days in October in a Temperate Oceanic Climate means the Climate Change Emergency is here & maybe we should dismantle our economies immediately?
            Fair play, Nigel, you are a true Global Warming Emergency Change loon.

        1. Nigel

          ‘The trend coincides with the climate change of general warming and rising extreme weather, some analysts said.’

    2. K. Cavan

      There you go, Kdoc, accusing those who’ve made a personal medical decision of being “cranks”, exactly as O’Shea did. To assert that those rejecting forced medical treatments are motivated by something other than the forced medical treatments is paranoid gibberish.
      Proof that allowing such views air-time allows the more weak-minded to feel justified in adopting them.
      O’Shea should be ashamed of himself but RTE & Byrne are worse, they mounted no robust challenge to his neo-fascist rhetoric, in the process showing where their sympathies lie. You should be ashamed of yourself too, Kdoc but no doubt that boat sailed a while ago.

  9. AC

    What exactly is the reason for making the unvaccinated get the vaccine? Is it down to just the hospital space? Do the vaccinated have to fear to be in the presence of the unvaccinated and if so why? I thought I was protected. If I must fear the unvaccinated, does that mean there is a big weakness in the vaccine. If I have had Covid already, what are the benefits of me getting vaccinated. If anyone responds, I do not want emotional response. Just pragmatism please. Not trying to start a fight but to truly understand the reasons behind all this.

    1. Kdoc

      The vaccine is a measure of protection; it’s not a guarantee you won’t contract the disease. It will probably keep you out of ICU. You still should maintain social distance as much as possible, wash hands frequently and wear a mask. Stay safe.

      1. Cui Bono?

        The overwhelming vast majority of people who get covid, without the vaccine, do not end up in hospital, never mind ICU.

        Most only get mild symptoms. The average IFR is only 0.15% which very close to the flu. It’s the biggest overreaction of all time.

        Mass hysteria.

        1. Cian

          When you say the IFR is 0.15% you do realise that in, say, the US 0.22% of the population (that is 746,509 people and counting) had died due to Covid?

          Even if every single American contracted Covid (which they haven’t) their IFR is at minimum 0.22%
          if half of Americans have contracted Covid their IFR is at least 0.44%
          if only a quarter of Americans have contracted Covid their IFR is at least 0.88%

          1. Cui Bono?

            You continue to make the same mistakes Cian. This is the last time I will explain it to you.

            – You are counting people who died of their comorbidities and not covid.
            – You are counting people who did not even do a test to show they had covid.
            – You are ignoring the fact that millions are already immune.
            – You are also counting 2 seasons as if it’s 1.

            The longer you deny these realities, the longer this crime continues.

          2. Cian

            1. no, it was Covid. Excess deaths in the US exceed Covid deaths
            Total predicted number of excess deaths since 2/1/2020 across the United States: 735,055 – 904,780
            Total Covid deaths: 746,529
            2. no. see #1
            3. this is irrelevant to calculate IFR (unless they are genetically immune, in which case it would make the IFR even greater)
            4. IFR doesn’t care about seasons.

      2. AC

        You are not really answering any of my questions above though. Could you please read again and respond the the exact question?

    2. Nigel

      ‘Do the vaccinated have to fear to be in the presence of the unvaccinated and if so why?’

      This has gotten so muddled, and it’s mostly down to the cranks. The restrictions are there to protect the UNvaccinated, because the vaccinated are less likely to catch it, less likely to spread it and less likely to end up in the ICU. If you want advice on whether a person should get the vaccination even if they’ve had covid, do not ask on a fractious online forum ASK A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL. Ask more than one, even. Nobody here can answer that for you, because anyone with the requisite knowledge would also know that advising you without knowing your personal medical history would be malpractice, and anyone who thinks they do by definition does not.

      1. AC

        “Nobody here can answer me”. This I think is the problem. Why can’t you answer them? Are you not informed enough yourself? Do you think you should know these answers for you own health and well being?

        1. Nigel

          No, the problem is you’re looking for specific medical advice from non-medical professionals. This is generally a bad idea. I know the answers relevant to myself and my family. I wouldn’t dream of claiming the same answers would apply to ayone else.

      2. Cui Bono?

        Why don’t you actually try and honestly answer his questions Nigel?

        The majority of unvaccinated do not need to be protected. We are not at risk to covid.

        I’m a middle aged healthy man and according to Oxford University’s analysis my risk of death from covid is only 0.0014% and my risk of hospitalisation is only 0.027%.

        Nigel, you are in denial, propagandised and suffering from hysteria.

        1. AC

          Cui Bono…. stop. This is what is wrong and the language that just creates two camps. I guess no one is able to answer the questions but maybe we all learned something today that we need to answer them. I am trying to understand those questions so I am make an informed opinion before I demonize the unvaccinated or decide myself that it is necessary to get a booster. Just to share that I am concerned about the over use of boosters as this was looked at with mRNA and combatting AIDS. There could be long term toxic effects with its overuse.
          I am getting weary of debates in the media now. It is just so high level and juvenile where it just boils down to most….Vaccinated people = good and unvaccinated = evil.

          1. Nigel

            Whatever you do don’t demonise the unvaccinated and don’t look to others to tell you whether you should or should not demonise anyone.

          2. Cui Bono?

            I can answer your questions AC but it’s Nigel and co. that need to honestly do it.

            – What exactly is the reason for making the unvaccinated get the vaccine?
            There is no logical reason. If the vaccines work then the vaccinated are protected. If they don’t work, then they don’t work and it doesn’t matter if nobody takes them.

            – Is it down to just the hospital space?
            No, most of us are not at any risk to covid so would never end up in hospital. My risk of hospitalisation as a middle aged healthy man is only 0.027%. Only really old people and some younger with serious comorbidities are at risk.

            – Do the vaccinated have to fear to be in the presence of the unvaccinated and if so why?
            No, choosing not to take one of these particular vaccines does not mean the unvaxxed have covid. Many of us have already had covid and are already immune. Most of us do not have it and if we did I would stay at home to not spread to others.

            – I thought I was protected. If I must fear the unvaccinated, does that mean there is a big weakness in the vaccine.
            Yes, the vaccines are nowhere near as effective as promised when released.

            – If I have had Covid already, what are the benefits of me getting vaccinated.
            None, zero. You do not need a vaccine for something you already had.

          3. Nigel

            Jesus Christ, AC, you do not have to believe anything else I say, but do not take medical advice from this person.

          4. Lilly

            ‘Many of us have already had covid and are already immune.’

            How long do you imagine this protection lasts? There are reports of people getting infected twice and three times so far.

          5. Micko

            “it just boils down to most….Vaccinated people = good and unvaccinated = evil.”

            Pretty worrying alright AC. But that will unfold as it’s meant to – nothing we can do to change human nature, but we can change people’s opinions. We’ll either go down a dark road or we won’t.

            On the booster – get an antibody test yourself privately (80 quid) and see if you have antibodies. If not, take your Doc’s advice on the boosters IMO

            That being said…

            I think at the end of the day, if we logically and pragmatically look at it, we have effectively divided and fractured our society for a disease that has unfortunately (and thankfully ONLY) killed 0.1% of our population in Ireland.

            5000 people out of 5 million. That’s a fact that I don’t think anyone can disagree with – right?

            The disease has now killed 0.06% of the global population. Thats 4.9 million out out of 7.9 Billion.

            To give that some context, Spanish Flu killed 2.5% of the global population.. That’s 50 Million out of 2 billion people (estimated). The world survived after that.

            Whether we saved millions due to lockdowns or not this time around, will be judged by historians for decades to come – we cannot make that call now. Anyone who says they can (including me) is basing that on intuition and emotion.

            So, we’ve lost 5000 people in Ireland. And we can debate all day about their ages, co-morbidities, whether that was a lot of people to die etc – it doesn’t really matter.

            We can’t go back so we need to decide where do we go from here.

            So, here we are with a divided, fractured and mentally broken society. Was it worth it?

            I dunno. I think not, but that’s just my opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

            All I know, is that ANYONE calling for MORE division in our society like this tiddly-poo pumpkin Joe O’Shea should be shut up immediately.

            Coz if people, politicians and nutjobs like him who are selling fear and hate are not shut up, then those 5000 people died for nothing and we’re all going down the toilet together.

          6. Nigel

            ‘To give that some context, Spanish Flu killed 2.5% of the global population.. That’s 50 Million out of 2 billion people (estimated). The world survived after that.’

            50 million did not. It will be interesting to estimate how many would have died without modern medical interventions, the use of ventilators and the speed with which vaccines were developed. Lockdowns, masks, travel restrictions, these are all old-school tried and trusted method of reducing mass infections.

            ‘whether that was a lot of people to die etc’

            I actually can’t believe you think that is an issue for ‘debate.’

            Also, you can’t see the weird paradox you’ve created in wondering whether the death toll of 5000 means that the pandemic responses put in place to reduce deaths were ‘worth it.’ By that measure, they would only have been ‘worth it’ if they’d failed completely and a lot more people died, or at least failed sufficently to allow for some larger death toll which would have fulflilled your personal standards of them being ‘worth it.’

            ‘So, here we are with a divided, fractured and mentally broken society.’

            I’m still trying to work out where you’re coming from with this question. It’s nothing to do with ‘worth it.’ We didn’t choose to have a pandemic. We perhaps chose to create conditions where we went into a pandemic poorly prepared in ways that were flagged by experts for decades and of course a health service that has been badly run longer than most of us have been alive, but I don’t think that’s where you’re coming from.

            There are thse who suggest that environmental degradation and destruction helps create the conditions for pandemics to arise, but that’s another issue.

            The 5000 people dead and whatever mental trauma and collateral damage to people who did not catch covid but were denied necessary operations and treatments or exerienced domestic abuse while trapped in lockdown – all those are part and parcel the the intrinsically bad event that is a pandemic. The question about those is, what could have been done to better deal with them? The answer is to have better systems and functioning institutions in place long before we ever have a pandemic or any other sort of crisis.

            Thinking the question is whether it was ‘worth it’ is just… alien? A non sequiter? To everyone else the question is how can we get out of this pandemic with minimal loss of life and how can we be better prepared for the next time something like this happens.

            Worth it? It’s like asking if an earthquake was worth it, or a volcano or a flood. Nobody talks about the Spainish Flu in terms of whether various efforts to contain it or prevent the spread were ‘worth it,’ they deal with it as a single cohesive event in the context of the historical period in which it happened. This will be the same.

            Tell you what, though. It might be a good question to apply to climate change, next time there’s a drought or a flood or a widlfire. Are they worth all the things we’re doing to make them worse? Are they worth not doing anything to stop it?

          7. Micko

            Still thinking you have a clue eh Nigel?

            You don’t.

            None of us do. We’re too close to it.

            Give it up. It’s just my opinion with a few facts sure.

            You sound emotionally compromised.

            AC asked for pragmatism

          8. Nigel

            ‘Still thinking you have a clue eh Nigel?’

            Sorry. The comment was too long and complicated for you to actually read again, wasn’t it?

          9. Micko


            I always know what I’ve said has hit home with you when you comment back in that way.

            Emotionally compromised.

            Like all of us…

          10. Nigel

            Yeah, it usually means I’ve responded in what I hope is an honest and thoughtful way to something you wrote and you just sort of… dissolve.

          11. Lilly

            @Cui Bono

            ‘– If I have had Covid already, what are the benefits of me getting vaccinated.
            None, zero. You do not need a vaccine for something you already had.’

            More rubbish.

        2. Nigel

          ‘The majority of unvaccinated do not need to be protected. We are not at risk to covid.’

          This is ridiculously reckless statement. The sheer infectiousness of covid makes those percentages pretty risky in terms of real numbers, ignores the consequences of an infected person spreading it to others, the risk of long term injury from even mild doses, and the risk of more severe and infectious variants.

          1. Cui Bono?

            Nonsense yet again Nigel. You are in denial and incapable of logic or reason.

            Why don’t you answer ACs questions?

          2. Chris

            Nigel, you are telling blatant lies. The vaccinated are twice as likely to catch ‘Covid’ as there unvaccinated cohorts in the 40-49 age group. Every vaccinated age grouping has a higher chance of catching it.

          3. f_lawless

            I find it gas Nigel today stressing the importance to a commenter here of seeking out advice from medical professionals before a person makes any decision to get vaccinated or not

            Presumably he must think it a medical scandal of historical proprortions the way in which the public have been put under immense societal pressure to get Covid vaccines – hustled in and out of mass vaccination centres where there was no doctor-patient relationship; where the vast majority of those who got vaccinated did not make the decision on a properly informed basis in any shape or form. They weren’t advised to first discuss the matter with their GP – their family history, various allergies, the nature of the new type of vaccines, etc. – before making their decision. Instead a one size fits all approach was taken for the majority and they were incentivised in large part to get vaccinated by the promise of more freedom if they did so and by fear of being ostracised from society if they did not.

            Here’s medical professional Dr Vincent Carroll talking back in July about how the Covid mass vaccination centres created a breakdown in the sacrosanct nature of the doctor-patient relationship in Ireland.


          4. Nigel

            I’m awfully sorry we had a massive public health emergency and there was social pressure involved because everyone wants it to end with minimal death and injury. Noody was prevented or discouraged from consulting their public health professional before receiving vaccinations – we had words with ours via the phone, I hope everyone else did with theirs as well.

            Nullzero – do you actually disagree with something I’ve said on the subject of where to get medical advice?

          5. f_lawless

            But the reality is that is not what happened and all I can say you’re once again showing how detached from it you’ve become.

            Also you’re again showing authoritarian streak is showing. The pressure imposed on the general public for mass vaccination was top-down in nature and yet you frame it as “there was social pressure involved because everyone wants it to end” thereby absolving those in authority from scrutiny.

          6. Nigel

            No, YOU think that to accept that there was a public health crisis requiring a public health response is the same thing as not holding people in authority to account. I hold them account for failures in their response to the public health crisis. You assert that they are essentially mindless and interchangeable puppets being controlled by people and institutions with so much power, wealth and influence that they are beyondall accountaibility and oversight, rendering the very concept of holding people to account meaningless.

    3. Cian

      What exactly is the reason for making the unvaccinated get the vaccine?
      The unvaccinated are at a higher risk from Covid, being hospitalised, dying. (note: the base level of risk is age dependant)
      Is it down to just the hospital space?
      yes (and graveyard space)
      Do the vaccinated have to fear to be in the presence of the unvaccinated and if so why?
      fear? no;
      But there is greater risk of an unvaccinated person infecting you than a vaccinated (there are more likely to get Covid, and be infectious for longer)
      I thought I was protected. If I must fear the unvaccinated, does that mean there is a big weakness in the vaccine.
      The vaccine isn’t as good as originally thought.
      If I have had Covid already, what are the benefits of me getting vaccinated.
      I don’t know this. There seems to be conflicting stories on this. Some say it provides additional protection. Others say it provides no additional protection.

      1. Nigel

        ‘fear? no;’

        It’s not about fearing anyone, but unvaccinated people are more likely to catch and pass the virus to other unvaccinated people, less so the vaccinated but there is still a risk – this is a purely pragmatic issue, there is no real moral value attached to anyone catching or infecting others outside of specific cases of people being unbelievably daft and ignoring fairly well-publicised advice about how best to behave if infected – I’m sure at this stage everyone has heard stories.

      2. AC

        The last thing I worry about is that our Government for far too long have been lazy and passed the buck to NPHET and expert advice. Expert advice on this area needs to be way up now to the greater good and why we elect people into power. To way up the overall strategic impact on society as a whole. I think we are paying for this with our children’s money. Also the cost to people who have missed treatments and potentially life saving diagnosis. The huge impact it is having on people socially and the impact to mental health. The livelihoods and the businesses destroyed also. It is an absolutely massive cost to society and why a lockdown should not continue. There has been a massive uptake on the vaccine. If it works then there is no reason why we should not open. If it does not then we need to be told and put into lockdown. I am sick of all the mixed messages and illogical advice.

        1. Cian

          Just to pick up on one of these:
          Also the cost to people who have missed treatments and potentially life saving diagnosis.

          There seems to be an assumption that what the government did has caused missed treatments and diagnosis (and there were disruptions which will be felt in the future).
          But if we didn’t do those things we would have ended up with the hospitals swamped with Covid patients which itself would have caused missed treatments and diagnosis.

          1. SOQ

            As someone who has lost two dear friends to cancer during this hysterical over reaction- one because of delayed treatments and one because a delayed diagnosis, I can say for certain that the reduction of health services has cost lives.

            To spin it in any other way is at best disingenuous and at worse- dishonest and callous.

            Outside one part of Italy at the very begining, there was no hospital crisis, as evidenced by the fact that capacity of such services not been ramped up to any extent since- despite the obscene amount of money spent on PCR tests, which don’t even return an accurate result.

    4. K. Cavan

      If you’ve already been infected with Sars02, getting vaccinated will destroy your full immunity to the actual virus & replace it with an immunity created by exposure to one of the symptoms of infection, the spike protein.
      With natural immunity, the presence of the virus will trigger an immediate immune response, with the vaccines, the spike protein, which only appears after Transfection, will trigger a response.
      Time is of the essence here, firstly how quickly your immune response happens, far slower & only after Transfection (infection of cells) with an mRNA vaccine-created immune response.
      Secondly, how long your immunity lasts, months for these vaccines, up to 17 years, possibly forever, with post-infection immunity.
      There is no comparison.

      1. Lilly

        ‘up to 17 years, possibly forever, with post-infection immunity’

        Where are you getting this information, K Cavan? I’m sorry to report it’s a load of bull. Some people are getting reinfected within as little as 8 months from round one.

  10. Nullzero

    Why are RTE giving time to these radical opinions and not the radical opinions on the other end of the scale?

    Yet again our state broadcaster is weighing the debate the way they want to. We pay for that nest of vipers in Donnybrook, it’s about time they acted responsibly.

    1. Kdoc

      Have you listened to some of the radical voices on the other side? The majority of them are complete fruitcakes. Listen to Croft telling people that they’ll need to ‘get ready’ and go underground! listen to Carey who wants to eliminate the Jews (what has that got to do with vaccines?) Listen to Heasman speaking at the weekend’s rally on Vinegar Hill. He said he was ‘sick of speeches and he wanted to go on the rampage in Enniscorthy’ That’s what you’re dealing with on the other side.

      1. Nullzero

        I’m not excusing what those people are saying. I just don’t understand why one cohort are allowed on the national broadcaster to incite hatred and the other isn’t?

        Honestly, neither deserve to be heard in that forum, my point being that RTE are making decisions that allow people like Joe O’Shea to go on the air to the entire country making poorly thought out sweeping statements about large numbers of Irish citizens.

      2. Cui Bono?

        I’ve never heard of these 3 you mention and I’m on the other side of the “debate”. What’s their first names?

        1. Micko

          I constantly amazed at this too.

          I don’t know ANY of those people – yet some here are really familiar with them.

          And to compare some one spouting hate on a hill to a bunch of people to someone spouting hate on a national broadcaster is just moronic.

          1. E'Matty

            Yeah, never heard of them but the usual govbot types always focus on them in seeking to tarnish any and all who question any aspect of gov and nphet policy. They seem highly suspect.

          2. Nullzero

            The same types who think the National Party are poised to take control of the country at the next general election. Facts are like kryptonite to these people.

          3. Micko

            Heh. A classic Nullzero

            Greatest episode ever apparently

            After “You only move twice” for me of course. ;)

          4. Nullzero

            It surely was. And a valuable tale about how the popular consensus may not always be the smartest choice.

          5. SOQ

            It is a recognised tactic Micko- pick the most extreme ‘out there’ characters and then paint everyone with the same brush.

            There is at least a dozen well respected GP’s and other specialists who hold strong opposing views to this nonsense but not one of them has ever been interviewed by anyone in RTE, let alone CB.

            What the main media is doing is playing very short term because most people are now wise to their game. They may be licking up to the government for funding but they are losing the trust of the people very fast- and that is not something they will ever regain.

        2. Kdoc

          Rowan Croft, Graham Carey, Andy Heasman Dara O’Flaherty and lots more. I’m sure you’re familiar With Gemma and John. You mustn’t have been taking notice of any protests over the last couple of years.

          1. Micko

            Yep – I’d wager that most here have never heard of any of them except for “Gemma and John”

            Maybe you should wonder why you have?

          2. SOQ

            I am pretty strong views on this subject and even I have never heard of two of those?

            At what point are you lot going to stop with the scholl yard politics and look to other countries where the left are on the streets? When are you going to ask yourselves why you have painted yourself into such a corner?

            BLM are even on board now FFS- because medical discrimination it is a straight down the line civil rights issue.

          3. Kdoc

            Ah, I was always advised to listen to both sides of an argument and then look for weight (from a wise lecturer). That’s why I monitor the other side, so to speak, on social media. It’s clear many on this platform have not bothered to do likewise. It’s a pity. Some of these people are very dangerous and are capable of very violent acts. For example, it’s worth noting that Heasman has 25 convictions. Sheehy from Dundalk is very familiar with the inside of Garda stations. At one Yellow Vest protest they had a ‘security detail’ some of whom were wearing Kevlar gloves. Ignore these people at your peril. One of them is before the courts for splitting open the head of a female counter protester. There are quite a few of them who are well capable of the action we saw in England last week. Pay attention to the other side and pay heed to t words that give succour to these headbangers.

          4. Kdoc

            I have indeed Bodger. Those I have mentioned and several others beside are definitely not part of it – unless those controlling them are into beating people up.
            Incidentally, it has been mentioned that RTE haven’t given the other side a voice. Bodger, that’s not true. Rowan Croft was invited and his excuse for not showing was that he would be entering the Lion’s den (he’s a big Qanon fan). RTE researchers rang O’Doherty inviting her on to a talk show and she didn’t return the call(s). I know this because O’Doherty played a recording of the RTE call on her website. I can’t recall her reason for the snub.
            One lady by the name of Murray from Co. Meath did appear on the Claire Byrne show. It would have been comedic if it wasn’t so tragic. As Texans might say: ‘she made an asshat of herself. But amazingly on twitter in the following days her supporters thought she was brilliant and she seemed to be happy with her performance. She was into the hoax end of the argument and she said something along the lines of: because she didn’t see it it didn’t exist.

          5. Bodger

            kdoc, ‘Those I have mentioned and several others beside are definitely not part of it’. You lost me there.

          6. Micko


            I think that you’re letting these extremists tarnish anyone that doesn’t agree with continued lockdowns. As you say, these guys are dangerous, but they do not represent the majority of moderate people.

            I like to think of it like a Bell curve.

            Yes, there are extremists on both sides of the bell curve.

            On one side is the Delores Cahill types and on the other are the Zero Covid heads. Both the extremes of opinions.

            Most of us are in the middle and just slightly lean in one direction or another. The average person just want things to go back to normal and these radicals (on both sides) are pulling us apart.

            We are more alike than different.

          7. Kdoc

            Bodger, for clarity of exposition. The fruitcakes I mentioned are not being controlled by government agents.

          8. Kdoc

            Micko, it’s the likes of Dolores Cahill and others at the helm who drive the more violent inclined of the movement. A bit like Paisley of old who marched his men to the top of the hill and spouted hatred; the problem was some of followers bought into it hook, line and sinker and committed horrible atrocities.

          9. Man On Fire

            So you don’t know whether they’re not agent provocateurs, some of the lat you mentioned have direct links to mi5. Just like Paisley did.

          10. Micko

            But that’s the same excuse that Daisy gives all the time Kdoc.

            “They are just useful fools”

            If you think of other people as fools then that’s all you ever see them as.

            Everyone can see that these guys are bad news and some will follow them, but trying to equate rational normal people, who’ve seen their lives destroyed as a result of fupp up after fupp up of terrible government policy on Covid is just disingenuous.

            And when the Government release rubbish rules like they did today – you’re DAMN right people go ” ah here, what’s really going on? – this doesn’t make any sense!”

            Look at Daisy’s post below. Some fellah who is antivaxx/anti mask/anti lockdown assaulted a woman in town and got sentenced today – good stuff. He’s an ar$eh*le. Deserves what he gets.

            Now, am I (and others on here) just the same as him to you, because I think the same about lockdowns, masks, am concerned about the vaccine etc?

            And why would she even post that on this thread? If not to try to sow hatred and division.

          11. Daisy Chainsaw

            They organise these rallies that Bodger and Broadsheet promotes, you show up and support them. So if anything, you’re the “useful fools” who legitimise these fascists and bigots with your attendance.

          12. Kdoc

            Man On Fire, I have been studying them for a couple of years now. I believe I know who the soldiers are – and their criminal backgrounds – and who are pulling their strings.
            How do you know Paisley was a member of MI5?

          13. Micko

            Good to see you posted there just to prove my point Daisy. (facepalm)

            Thanks for that ;P

            @ Kdoc – What do you mean you’ve been “studying them”?

            “Soldiers”? WTF are you on about man?

            And you get annoyed with US when we don’t know who they are?

            Staring to think you’re both on the more radical end of that bell curve I spoke of.

          14. Kdoc

            Micko, If Daisy didn’t mention Quinn’s sentence some people here might claim they never heard of him. She performed a civic duty. With regards to tarnishing people: I think there’s some truth in the old adage, when you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas. However, given that few here claimed to be aware of these people, I suspect you and your confederates don’t actually attend these protests. And you’re right, it’s easier to keep your nose clean and shout from the sidelines.

          15. Micko

            Never been to a Covid protest Kdoc.

            The last protest I was at was for Savita Halappanavar and before that was the big one against the Iraq War.

            But after todays insane announcement that makes NO logical sense – I’m bloody well thinking about going to one!

            If we can’t start seeing people with genuine concerns as real people and not “fools” as Daisy calls them, then we are collectively buggered!

            Oh and people on here and I aren’t “confederates”. Just because we agree on certain issues, doesn’t mean we’re in a special club. ;-)

            I know that I think for myself and I’m sure they do to (as do you). We all just happen to agree / disagree on certain things – that’s all.

            The “special clubs” are for the real nut jobs… I stay the hell away from them.

        3. Nigel

          It’s great the way every time these names get mentioned you lot all have to pile up and ostentatiously proclaim your complete ignorance of their entire existence.

          1. Cui Bono?

            I honestly don’t know who they are. They have had no impact on may views on covid and lockdowns.

            I do know Gemma and John but I don’t like them. I might agree with them on a lot of the covid hysteria but it doesn’t mean I agree with them on other issues.

          2. Nullzero

            Maybe, now bear with me here Nigel, just maybe people don’t have a clue who they are.

            Possibly because their protests aren’t particularly successful.

          3. Nigel

            Nullzero – well there has been a certain amount of promotion and support expressed here for protests in which some of these people, or others like them, are involved, while at the same time a kind of strict bubble of ignorance is maintained about who they are and what they say.

          4. K. Cavan

            So, how do you answer criticism that you’re a fellow-traveller of Mr Gates, Nigel? Are you completely ignorant of his existence? How about his proclamation of his desire to use new vaccines to murder 10-15% of the world’s population, more than a billion people? You haven’t heard it or you reckon he was just having a laugh?
            How do you see those grains of sand in others’ eyes, past the log in your own?

          5. Nigel

            I’ve never heard of this Bill Gates person. Sounds like an invented puppet controlled opposition psyop.

      3. K. Cavan

        Exactly, Kdoc, what has this got to do with vaccines? What are you on about? This nonsense you seem intent on pushing might convince you that you’re on the “right side” but sensible people know that agreeing with someone over something doesn’t guarantee you’ll agree on everything.
        Bill Gates has openly stated his depopulation agenda & you agree with his desire to vaccinate the world, you stand side by side with that evil, yet you have the nerve to push these tenuous connections that people opposed to Gates have with each other?
        Get real.

    2. Bodger

      On France…Joe made it sound like every worker has to be vaccinated – that’s not the case. He also made it sound like the vaccine pass in France (for restaurants, pubs etc,) doesn’t include testing – it does include testing.

  11. Fred

    A portion of the unvaccinated are believed to carry rats on their person for licking. Rats are often friendly and polite but can also be aggressive and malicious. If you encounter the latter, you may be in danger of being bitten and/or sprayed with rat urine which can be bad for your health, even resulting in a fast and untimely death.

  12. Johnny 'Diego' Keenan

    The hack of ya Joe O’Shame.

    This lad writes for the star about fish and chips. Contributes to RTE Today Show about stories about nothing in particular, wearing a dickeybow.

    It’s easy go full loco, with the backing of establishment media and corporate government.

    Oshea is a hack that knows where the money in media is.
    He’s not a journalist. He is a hack.
    A hack.

    A hack writer is a pejorative term for a writer who is paid to write low-quality, rushed articles or books “to order”, often with a short deadline. … In journalism, a hack writer is deemed to operate as a “mercenary” or “pen for hire”, expressing their client’s political opinions in pamphlets or newspaper articles.

  13. Darren

    It seems like there is a lot of milleage to be found in the divisive narrative. It also seems as though the politicians whose only service to public interest is in whatever sense to mitigate the effects of threats to that same public are aware that as far as this virus is concerned, their winning card is to draw focus on to the innevitible few who are as equal in a democracy as any of their fellow citizens. Do we like a democracy. Yes we do. But the question do we accept the cost is always another thing and the politicians and their divying up of public life according to how they set out govermental departments is altogether an embodiment of that public reckoning and priotisation. The standard media just pay for their place in the game by assisting in upholding the ongoing tensions between choice and consequence. In all serousness, the vulnerable few are those still left after the last winter wave. Fear is one thing but it’s effect leads to something else entirely. In a world of people mostly born in an age of annhailiting rockets and a deteriorating ecosphere its totally understandable but it’s no less ineffective and troubling on the whole to see Facebook meta announced as the next deveopment of social media but it might also be all the proof you need to see that money backs distraction over resolution and however that informs your choice about taking a vaccine its still your choice. Mass capitalism could not sustain without at least the impressions of a democratic society which is why the government will stop short of actually publishing the names and addresses of those without a vaccine despite the argument that these few laggards etc etc are now alone responsible for the potential continued shutdown of the live economy and even yours and my Christmas! Heathens

    1. SOQ

      Mass capitalism could not sustain without at least the impressions of a democratic society.

      I am not sure that is true- I don’t see any correlation between democracy and capitalism, other than the fact they both sprang from the same place.

      And, when you look at how many American corporations have so readily moved operations to China, the opposite may actually be true. Why bother with messy elections when you have country which will shape it’s people to your needs?

      Likewise when you look back on the merging of corporatism and state known as fascism in 1930’s Germany- one has to wonder if there is a need for democracy within big business operations at all. If anything, there may be a preference for totalitarianism, because such can be far more profitable.

      What we are witnessing right now is the full on capture of governments by globalism, in particular pharma. There is no other way of explaining the lockstep restrictions which have been enforced, like masks, lockdowns, and now vaccine mandates.

  14. Darren

    I wonder is China not the example of a ‘pragmatic’ democracy in which the party is the best and as such only choice but as it’s considered the best it is still able to sustain a commercial landscape and competitive market under its control. Then again I’ve never been and state controlled media might not always report internal issues in full. I do think that democracy is not only simultaneous to capitalism but the root which feeds the branches of commercial competition and so on. In the end they both like to demonstrate profit as a mutual gains situation and weild market dominance as a mandate for power. Often irrespective of wider costs. The evergrande collapse and fossil fuel mining for data farms which lead to increased flooding of actual farms suggest that whatever China is its not communist. No doubt about the influence of pharma in our world but greed will likely support any and all forms of state organisation so long as it’s corrupt. You can’t sell people a choice if they do not believe it is theirs to use.

      1. Darren

        I will retain my wonder having never been. But thanks. A quick wiki search says that 90 percent of the pop believe in the benefits of democratic process. I would suggest that the basis for this belief in spite of contrary practice is the prevelance of democratic values in the wider developed world as witnessed across western cultural media etc. So would it then be a sort of badge of an aspirational populous whose elder generation still remembers famines etc? If democracy is about the will of the masses then a country the size of China represents a huge challenge to any authoritarian impulse. Likely ji is betting on various tech solutions tipping the balance in his favour but history suggests another outcome.

  15. Daisy Chainsaw

    Speaking of Hardcore cranks, antivaxx/anti mask/anti lockdown protester and National Party member Michael Quinn was sentenced to 3 years (final year suspended) for his violent attack on Izzy Kamikaze.

    1. Kdoc

      That’s great news. I hope it acts as a deterrent for others, but I doubt it. Some of them are done with speeches and they want action. A number have issued threats with one moron last weekend calling for TD’s to be dragged out of the Dáil. That’s what they think of our democracy. It’s only a matter of time before one of these loons does serious harm and they are being encouraged all the way by the words of others in the shadows.

        1. Daisy Chainsaw

          Not really. Antimask/vaxx/lockdown “protesters” have been agressive, violent and threatening all over the world.

          1. SOQ

            Daisy Chainsaw

            Avid supporter of mandatory Vaccine Passports and also injecting children without parents consent.

            Square that left wing circle.

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            And done some assault, violent disorder, affray, burglary, theft and public order offences.

            49 convictions. What an absolute star of the Antivaxx movement.

      1. K. Cavan

        Our democracy? You’re not in a democracy any more, Kdoc, you’re in The New Normal. You will own nothing & you’ll be happy, recognize that as a democracy?

      2. K. Cavan

        Yes, “others in the shadows”.
        Ah, Kdoc, you’re a lot paranoid & tres melodramatic, eh?
        Any day now, serious harm, our democracy.
        Seek professional help, it’s not your fault, nothing to be ashamed of.

  16. K. Cavan

    Oh here we are and here we are and here we go
    All aboard and we’re hitting the road
    Here we go-o
    Threatening All Over The World…

    1. Kdoc

      K, I accept you are unaware of who the Far-Right activists are, but you couldn’t have missed the late night protest by a group outside Donnelly’s home, and the protests outside the homes of Holohan and Varadkar. The intimidation is obvious and they are edging ever closer to assaulting officials or elected members of the Dáil. And you find it it amusing.

Comments are closed.

Sponsored Link