Doubling Down


This morning.


Safe and effective.

Eamonn Holmes

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108 thoughts on “Doubling Down

      1. Nigel

        For a narrative that’s supposedly been crumbling for almost as long as there’s supposedly been a narrative it’s proving surprisingly resistent to your devastating pwnge of occasionally saying the narrative is crumbling.

          1. Nigel

            Wow. That’s so misleading in terms of the overall findings it’s pretty much straight-up deception.

            ‘Several studies of vaccine effectiveness have been conducted in the UK which indicate that 2 doses of vaccine are between 65 and 95% effective at preventing symptomatic disease with COVID-19 with the Delta variant, with higher levels of protection against severe disease including hospitalisation and death. There is some evidence of waning of protection against infection and symptomatic disease over time, though protection against severe disease remains high in most groups at least 5 months after the second dose.’

            ‘Effectiveness against hospitalisation
            Several studies have estimated vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation in older ages, all of which indicate higher levels of protection against hospitalisation with all vaccines against the Alpha variant (7, 8, 9, 10). Effectiveness against hospitalisation of over 90% is also observed with the Delta variant with all 3 vaccines (3). In most groups there is relatively limited waning of protection against hospitalisation over a period of at least 5 months after the second dose. Greater waning appears to occur among those in clinical risk groups (3).’

            ‘Effectiveness against mortality
            High levels of protection (over 90%) are also seen against mortality with all 3 vaccines and against both the Alpha and Delta variants (7, 11, 3). Relatively limited waning of protection against mortality is seen over a period of at least 5 months.’

            ‘Effectiveness against infection
            Although individuals may not develop symptoms of COVID-19 after vaccination, it is possible that they could still be infected with the virus and could transmit to others. Understanding how effective vaccines are at preventing infection is therefore important to predict the likely impact of the vaccination programme on the wider population. In order to estimate vaccine effectiveness against infection, repeat asymptomatic testing of a defined cohort of individuals is required. Studies have now reported on vaccine effectiveness against infection in healthcare workers,
            care home residents and the general population (12, 13, 14, 15). With the delta variant, vaccine effectiveness against infection has been estimated at around 65% with Vaxzevria and 80% with Comirnaty (4).’

            There is one, and only one, age group where the vaccinated have a slightly higher rate of infection over the unvaccinated, and that advantage sort of vanishes when it comes to rates of hospitalisation and mortality.

          2. Cian

            It also shows
            – double-vaccinated are half as likely to go to emergency care Page 17 (b)
            – double-vaccinated are half as likely to go to die Page 18 (c) & (d)

          3. SOQ

            Figure 2. Rates (per 100,000) by vaccination status from week 38 to week 41 2021 show near twice CoVid-19 infections in vaccinated- how can you read it any other way?

          4. Bitnboxy

            Oh jaysus – the SOQ (get a fuppin job you layabout) latest is that you are more likely to get Covid if you are doubly vaccinated!

            Says it all.

            Thank you Cian for assisting SOQ in the latest twist to his anti-vaxx soothsaying.

            And my and your taxes via dole payments are keeping SOQ online all day every day and shunning work. Maddening.

          5. SOQ

            Interesting how it is only my employment status which is of concern to you?

            Take your personal attacks and shove them, you nasty cretin.

          6. GiggidyGoo

            Boxy – scan the code. As applicable now as it was when I first added it. You’re a disgraceful poster.

    1. John Smith

      95% or 100%, people would still get it and still pass it on. Though, just after they have been administered, the vaccines may be more effective in preventing infection of person receiving them, this effect wanes quickly and then they only do what they were designed to do – lessen the severity of the symptoms. (Dr Anne Moore on RTE – see previous Broadsheet posting). They don’t make people immune – apparently, not even after a third dose, as the comments show.

        1. E'Matty

          Clearly vaccinated people are still getting sick. So, to call the vaccinated the “immune”, as our politicians have, is therefore evidently false.

        2. SOQ

          Absolutely not true- immunity means your body recognises and kills the virus- the issue is that these vaccines were so specific as to not take into account the changing strains.

          1. george

            Immunity to a disease does not mean the virus that causes the disease cannot be present in an immune person.

            I thought the issue with the vaccines were that they were experimental drugs containing nano-particles designed to control our brains and kill us.

        3. Cui Bono?

          “I thought the issue with the vaccines were that they were experimental drugs containing nano-particles designed to control our brains and kill us.”

          Yes, they are experimental.

          No, to the rest.

          The control is with the Digital ID pass system.

    2. Redmond Comerford

      Obvious point. Wasted on the fools running this site.

      Can people who are double vaccinated get Covid? Of course. No-one ever said otherwise.
      Also obvious. Also wasted on the fools running this site.

      1. GiggidyGoo

        Professor Like O Neill did. 3rd one down.

        Here’s how history has already recorded Luke O’Neill’s pronouncements.

        – He stated

        – ‘Vaccinations are stopping transmission.’ (No they’re not)
        – ‘When vaccination reaches a high level ‘the virus goes away’ ‘ (No it doesn’t)
        – ‘We can prevent Covid through vaccination’ (No you can’t)
        – ‘All of the vaccines, including AstraZeneca, will prevent you getting sick and ending up in hospital.’ (No they won’t)
        – It also believed that once you get coronavirus you will become immune from it again and O’Neill believes this may be the case. (He obviously will peddle anything that will make him an, ahem, influencer).

    3. Cui Bono?

      They said the Relative Risk Reduction was 95% for Pfizer but the Absolute Risk Reduction (which didn’t make it on the corporate media) was only 0.8%.

      That was for trying to stop bad symptoms.

      They never said it would reduce transmission or give immunity.

  1. Nigel

    Trying to work out what this means from the distorted view that’s been downplaying the danger posed by covid since the pandemic began. Covid isn’t actually dangerous, but the vaccine isn’t fully protecting people from the danger that is the cureent covid surge? What IS the current proportion of vaccinated versus unvaccinated in the ICUs anyway?

    1. Clampers Outside

      Irish Examiner, last week on 18/10/2021:-

      Period of “latest data”: June 27 to Oct 2
      258 ICU admissions for the period.
      149 or 58% in ICU were unvaccinated.
      14 had 1 dose of a 2 dose jab.
      13 unknown vax status.
      Remainder of 82 or 32% were vaccinated.

      Of total 258, 76% or 195 had underlying conditions – 80 for hypertension; 62 chronic heart disease.
      12 pregnant women were admitted to ICU, 8 of who had underlying conditions, and only 1 was vaccinated.

      Easily googled.

      1. Nigel

        Thank you. Easily googled, you say? Someone should tell Bodger, we know how he likes to have accurate information to give proper context to his posts.

        58% of people in ICU come from 8% of the adult population. (Hang on, though, there’s an assumption about age there as well, but Bodger and co are unlikely to claim that a siginifcant portion come from the under-18s, though that information would be good to have.) We don’t know how many CAN’T get vaccinated versus WON’T (as is their right), and we don’t know what percentage of that percentage is in the 58%.

        In the real world the vaccine efficacy issue is vitally, globally, important. We need to know how and why breakthrough infections are occurring, how serious they, what sorts of risk they pose. In Bodger’s world, exaggerating the vaccine’s failure rate and side-effects is proof that they don’t work, are dangerous in themselves, and this somehow slots into a larger theory about amassive crime being perpetrated against humanity. But if unvaccinated are disproportionally ending up in ICUs then any increase in breakthrough or severity of cases in the vaccinated population still represents a substantially reduced risk compared to being unvaccinated, which is something those who choose to remain so should be paying attention to, and those who can’t must be watching in growing horror and despair. Or utter resignation.

        1. Cian

          Your numbers are a bit off.

          The numbers vaccinated went from 50% of total population in mid-June to 75% now…

          the age-profile of those in ICU would be needed to get a better understanding of the efficiency of the vaccine.

          Another problem is while we know how many people (in each age group) have the vaccine we don’t have an accurate count of those that have not had the vaccine (the CSO has estimates only). As the total vaccinated nears 100% in an age group these counts become really important when doing vac Vs non-vac comparisons.

      1. Nigel

        For proof of this: a twitter screenshot, which just shows that for the most part breakthrough infections are not severe except in cases of pre-existing poor health conditions. None of which is inconsistent with how it’s been broadly understood that the vaccines worked, coupled with the built-in uncertainties that go with a pandemic.

        1. SOQ

          Along with age and BMI, the people with pre-existing poor health conditions are the ones most likely to develop CoVid-19 in the first place?

      2. wearnicehats

        “The vaccines don’t work as advertised and they are making people sick”

        The vaccines do work as advertised as no-one in that vast swathe of a section of society shown in a screenshot from a twitter feed – presumably in the UK – are in hospital. They’re sitting at home needlessly spreading hysteria – sound familiar Bodger? SoQ? Cian?

        Vaccines do not cure covid. vaccines don’t stop you getting covid. Vaccines don’t stop you spreading it. Vaccines do stop the vast majority of people without health complications ending up in hospital. The vaccines are not making people sick – where TF do you get that from. Covid is making people sick.

        Maybe you could get a job as Claire Byrne’s researcher

        1. gallantman

          “Vaccines do not cure covid. vaccines don’t stop you getting covid. Vaccines don’t stop you spreading it. Vaccines do stop the vast majority of people without health complications ending up in hospital.”…It is fair to say it isn’t really a ‘vaccine’ then as we’ve traditionally understood it. No chance of elimination or herd immunity then so it is endless booster jabs of a therapeutic of some sort. Maybe that should be said explicitly at this stage.

          1. wearnicehats

            the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the US changed its definition of vaccine recently:

            Before the change, the definition for “vaccination” read, “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” Now, the word “immunity” has been switched to “protection.” The term “vaccine” also got a makeover. The CDC’s definition changed from “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” to the current “a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases.

            The CDC stated that “There remains the misconception that COVID-19 vaccines were designed to prevent infections altogether, leading people to believe the vaccines aren’t working as they should when they learn about breakthrough infections among the vaccinated. But the coronavirus vaccines are doing exactly what they were designed to do, which is to prevent severe disease, including the need for hospitalization, and death — even in the presence of more dangerous versions of the virus such as the delta variant.”

          2. george

            More unvaccinated people getting sick means greater strain on the healthcare system and more deaths. Vaccine passports are an attempt to reduce the number of people getting sick.

          3. SOQ

            Well, if the health service was under such strain last year, what did the government do about it?

            Sweet FA: the health service is there to serve us- not the other way around.

  2. Andrew

    It would really be useful to know more details about who is ending up in ICU. What I mean by that is what age groups, how healthy they are to begin with, are the overweight etc.

    1. Clampers Outside

      76% of ICU admissions have underlying conditions… Breakdown of vaccinated or not isn’t given (as per Irish Examiner article mentioned above).

      Further to that, Irish Mirror on 20/10/2021…
      Hospitalisations of those fully vaccinated are “overwhelmingly” due to underlying conditions.

      The rest of the Mirror article confirms the Ir Examiner report…. They both are reporting on the same data.

      These papers should link to the feckin’ HSE report…. :/

      1. Nigel

        Huh. This isn’t me demanding answers from you, Clampers, but a more general question – does that mean that the unvaccinated hospitalisations are NOT associated with underlying conditions? Also, how many, if any, are repeat infections?

        I’m not trying for a gotcha on anyone, by the way, SURELY this is information unvaccinated people should be aware of while we’re in the process of reopening during what appears to be another surge.

        1. Clampers Outside

          On your first question, answer was in my first sentence where I said “breakdown not given”.

          Regarding repeat infections…. No mention of that in either article.

  3. SOQ

    So it started with 95% efficacy and then, efficacy was redefined to mean catching SARS-CoV-2 but not developing CoVid-19. Now it means you may catch, transmit and get sick, but less chance of dying,

    The goalposts are not just moving, they are doing a lap of honour around the bloody field.

    1. Nigel

      It means less chance of catching it, less chance of trnsmitting it, less chance of dying, the same as it always meant. Vaccinated people really do seem to have a better understanding of what it means to be vaccinated than unvaccinated people do.

        1. Nigel

          It does mean exactly that, and all the evidence suggests unvaccinated are being infected and hospitalised disproportionately to vaccinated.

          1. Nigel

            I know you didn’t. Because once you start getitng into hospitalisations and deaths the attempts to maintain an equivalence become utterly indefensible.

          2. Nigel

            Vaccinated people are less likely to catch it and pass it on than unvaccinated people, the proof literally right there in the link to the study YOU gave. Vaccine restrictions are unworkable because there aren’t enough unvaccinated people to justify the expense and the inconvenience, and the burden of risk is clearly on the unvaccinated anyway.

        1. Nigel

          That’s from last January during the early stages of the rollout, sensibly taking a cautious approach and advising people to stick to general guidelines, which is still good advice. If unvaccinated are being infected disproportinately more than vaccinated then it DOES lessen your chances of catching it.

          1. E'Matty

            You claim the unvaccinated are being “infected disproportinately more than vaccinated”. There isn’t much evidence to support this. We cannot simply look at the case numbers and say, how many vaccinated and how many unvaccinated. The figures are skewed to begin with by the failure to test asymptomatic vaccinated close contacts, who we know could have contracted the virus. Given the overwhelming majority of cases throughout this pandemic have been asymptomatic, failing to test asymptomatic vaccinated close contacts means many cases in that community will have been missed. ALL asymptomatic unvaccinated close contacts are tested and so will be more properly recorded. Therefore, from the largest cohort testing positive throughout this pandemic (asymptomatics) you only test those coming from the 8% unvaccinated community, and none from the 92% vaccinated community. The result is obviously going to return a flawed figure showing a disproportionate number of unvaccinated cases.

            It’s a basic case of not applying the same measurements for one group vis a vid another to deliberately skew the stats to mislead the public into thinking the unvaccinated are overwhelming the healthcare system. It’s similar to the duplicitously misleading conflating of recent (last 2 weeks) ICU and hospital figures, with figures for the time period of 6 months BEFORE those two weeks to convince the Irish people that 67% of ICU patients are unvaccinated, which many still believe.

            This abuse of stats and figures to serve the NPHET/Government narrative has been in play since day one of this pandemic.

          2. Nigel

            I’m going by numbers in ICU which as of last week were 58% unvaccinated. The only thing you can say is maybe there’s a chance that figures will emerge to show that infection rates for vaccinated and unvaccinated might be similar, but if that’s the case the rates for hospitalisations for vaccinated infected are monstrous.

    2. george

      Efficacy was never redefined. It always meant not developing Covid-19. Wording was clarified for better understanding and many people did not understand that a positive test without symptoms does not mean you have Covid-19.

  4. Qwerty123

    Right then, that’s settled. there is at least 6/7 anecdotal stories there. That’s me convinced.

    1. SOQ

      I think you’ll find that all of the now acknowledged injuries started as anecdotal stories and in some cases continued in numbers until they were so high as to be forced to admit there was a problem.

  5. Centerest Dad

    Bodger the medical professional strikes again. Any chance of a big ol’ peer-reviewed study supporting your opinion on vaccines? Or is it just twitter screenshots for now

    1. Mr.T

      Theres that study from the US that finds no correlation between vaccination rates and case numbers – or is it only science that you agree with?

      1. Nigel

        I’d say that study needs a few follow-ups, don’t you? If the vaccination rates in those areas aren’t correlating to case numbers, than what is, and why?

  6. Fearganainm

    Eamonn Holmes, a man who’s so anxious to be in the public eye that he’d put out a press release to mark the opening of a bag of crisps.

  7. Dr.Fart

    how can people not understand this? the vaccine doesn’t stop you catching covid. It’s a treatment. Not actually a vaccine either but for naming purposes we’ll go with that. Now, as for getting badly sick while vaxxed, that will happen to some people while thousands every day are catching it. Now I do think the percentage of people getting sick while vaxxed is higher than is being advertised, and the percentage suffering side effects from the actual vac is higher also. But people being sick while vaxxed is no advert for anti-vaccines. You simply are better off to get the vaccine and take those tiny risks as opposed to the risk of what will happen getting covid. What we really need is an actual vaccine, like the polio vaccine, where it fully prevents you from catching covid. Get everyone on that and covid is gone. But that won’t be for a while as theres too much money to be made on the current vaccines.

    1. Gavin

      People don’t understand this because they’ve had conflicting incorrect information shoveled at them from the very start.

      1. Dr.Fart

        the government have handled it awfully. when they set an agenda, they don’t go about informing the public, they go about lying to the public to try get them to follow that agenda. so when the lies cross over, then people see that and don’t trust them. so you can’t win them back.
        examples as simple as varadkar stating at the start that masks don’t actually do anything, which he said he lied about to try save masks for hospital staff. so instead of saying “please hold off on masks until we get more in” he led with a lie. his instinctive reaction to order the public was to lie. he hasn’t considered that people won’t trust him then after that. the whole government has acted like this and its really backfired.

        1. Clampers Outside

          We’re not special ya know. Every govt that did what the W. H. O. told them told the same lies to their people.

          Just for clarification.

  8. Poor oul divil

    Can Micko (and any other anti vaccers) please confirm what pub his wife drinks in, so I can *avoid it?

    (*like the plague)

    1. John Smith

      Vaccinated people get Covid but the symptoms are less severe. Symptoms of Covid are not severe anyway, in a lot of cases, so in vaccinated people they could be so mild as to be unnoticeable. This is less likely to be the case when an unvaccinated person gets Covid so they are more likely to be aware they are ill and to be taking appropriate action. Given the choice, I’d actually prefer to be with unvaccinated people, for this reason – less chance of assymptomatic spread.

    2. GiggidyGoo

      Maybe you should cop onto yourself. You’re continually stalking one poster. You add nothing to the discussion on the articles. Get a life.

  9. Nigel

    We are reopening. We are experiencing a surge. The unvaccinated are disproportionately catching it, ending up in hospital, ending up in ICUs and dying. Why is this not of concern to them? I mean other than the ones who CAN’T get vaccinated. I bet they’re aware if it. Why are they fixated on telling me, a vaccinated person, that I can still catch it, spread it, end up in hospital or dead? I already know this. We’re in a pandemic. There are highly unpredictable factors at work. Medicines aren’t perfect. Our leaders are twits. Sometimes you’re just unlucky. All these factors are multiplied for the unvaccinated. I might be more impressed by them exercising their freedom to choose if they showed any realistic awareness of the actual risks to them.

    1. Poor oul divil

      I just want to know what pub Micko and Micko’s wife drink in, in fairness it’s a valid question and there’s nothing wrong with asking questions

        1. Poor oul divil

          I’m just asking questions Nigel
          Micko brought his own wife into the conversation here on vaccinations etc a few weeks ago when he mentioned with glee how she was down the country drinking with other mad out of it anti maskers and thus came back to the homestead potentially infecting people – and I’m paraphrasing here – but he seemed really happy about it. I was just looking for an update to this fascinating tale.

          1. SOQ

            You are attempting to ‘encourage’ someone not to post- by repeatedly referring to what you perceive as their emotional vulnerabilities.

            Sure we are all just lads havin the craic eh?

          2. Poor oul divil

            Hi Soq
            I don’t see any sign that Micko is bullied off the site as you claim, in any case not sure why you’re getting involved – maybe you’re trying to bully me a little huh? In any case if it helps Micko is one of my favourite commenters, I’m just pulling him up on one little matter which I feel was a little anti-social at the time – he can speak for himself sure

          3. Micko

            “a few weeks ago when he mentioned with glee how she was down the country”

            Yes, indeed – a few weeks ago Divil. Interesting you note this too… your obsession is persistent if nothing else.

            “I was just looking for an update”


            I’m sure you’ll be delighted to know that both Mrs Micko and darling daughter are still alive and living their lives normally as is possible in these troubling times we find ourselves in.

            Sincerly yours,



            I do hope that my pertinent update above satisfies what seems to be, if I might be so bold to say sir, is your insasituble curiously over my families wellbeing.

            Alas, I fear it may not quell your unending thirst for inane information pertaining to people you’ve never actually encountered. Which could of course be complete works of fiction as far as you know.

            For you sir, appear to be be, despite your chosen pseudonym, one of Our Lord’s “Special little creatures”.

            Good luck in your future endeavours Mr Divil, I’m sure you will be a resounding success in whatever future challenges life may choose to burden you with.

            Be it redundancy, syphilis, mental illness, global pandemic, crippling fear around the actions of others. etc. I’m sure you will handle it with all the gusto you can muster.

            To use the nomenclature of the local natives “You go girl”


        1. Poor oul divil

          There’s nothing wrong with asking questions Micko, that’s what you said yourself, I’m sorry I’m not like other “sheeple” reading your stuff here and going gosh he sounds like a diamond geezer.

        1. SOQ

          So you know better than 50% of professional paramedics in NYC then so? We’ll see what happens next Monday, when they are sent home.

          1. SOQ

            It’s hard to get real data on this as the place is awash with media coverage- because its a huge story.

            “At a news conference in Manhattan hours after the mayor’s announcement, United Firefighters Association President Andrew Ansbro said the order immediately impacts more than 3,500 active duty first responders who are unvaccinated — or 45% of FDNY’s total workforce.”


            In a way, arguing about +/- 5 or 10% is pretty academic because whether it be 1 in 5 or on 1 in 3 being sent home, the impact is going to be the same. It’s a game of chicken and the stakes are very high.

          2. Nigel

            No mention whatsoever of paramedic figures. Cops and firefighters are the highest, and cops have been dropping like flies from covid, so it’s doubly stupid. No idea what’s up with firefighters.

          3. SOQ

            @ Nigel- these figures are being bandied about all over the place but whether it be 50 or 40 or even 30- the chaos is going to be the same. The big issue seems to be that they are insisting that people who were previously infected are also vaccinated- which is stupid.

            @wearnicehats nobody mentioned health care workers as they have been mandated previously- they are not part of this group. Do try to keep up.

  10. john smith (NAME ALREADY IN USE)

    cough what you mean, been double vaccinated doesn’t automatically make you immune to ever catching covid and been able to pass it on. why has no one ever said that before on the news or online or on the radio.

    1. John Smith

      This is going to be confusing! Please note that John Smith and john smith are two different people.

        1. John Smith

          Do you mean both John Smith and john smith are blighters, Giggidy? If so, I wonder why you think that.

          1. John Smith

            I’d forgotten about him!

            Obviously a new conspiracy! I wonder if any of us are what we seem.

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