From top: Trinity College; Bríd Ní Ghoibín (left) and Inés Lonergan

This morning.

Bríd Ní Ghoibín and Inés Lonergan write:

We are two second year healthcare students training as a midwife and physiotherapist respectively, at Trinity College Dublin.

Healthcare students have been told by Trinity College that they cannot complete their clinical placement unless they provide proof of vaccination.

We are in the middle of our degrees. Now, we are being told that we must either prove that we have received a Covid-19 vaccine or risk bidding farewell to our career dreams, degrees, and all the hard work and savings already invested in them.

Clinical placement is a core part of our training, without which we cannot qualify as a midwife or physiotherapist.We were told by our university that all options would be explored in order to facilitate us going on placement, only to be later given an ultimatum: take the vaccine or risk losing your career.

We have offered to take part in routine testing for COVID-19, to wear additional PPE beyond what is required, and are open to whatever other non-pharmaceutical measures that could help mitigate any risk posed to patients but to no avail. Professor Martin Cormican, Clinical Lead of the HSE’s Antimicrobial Resistance and Infection Control team, has refused to meet with students to discuss measures to ensure that unvaccinated students can proceed with placement safely.

We intend to challenge these discriminatory and unjust policies at the High Court. This is the start of a journey. We wish to pave the way so that other students don’t have to endure the same inequality and maltreatment that we currently face.

Please consider donating to help us cover the costs associated with our legal action to challenge the divisive and unethical policies of the HSE and universities.

Students Challenge University Vaccine Pass Policy (GoFundMe)

Sponsored Link

121 thoughts on “No Pass, No Go

    1. Mr.T

      Vaccine doesnt prevent the spread – number of large covid outbreaks in hospitals is just further proof of this.

      A sensible approach would be to regularly test healthcare staff instead – but this is Ireland, we dont DO sense.

      Reply
        1. Cui Bono?

          One of the issues is that these particular vaccines do not complete their clinical trials until 2023 and we do not know the mid to long term side affects yet.

          Where there is risks, there should always be a choice.

          Also, the overwhelming majority of us are not at any risk from covid19 and all the old and vulnerable have either had the vaccines or been offered them.

          Reply
          1. Cui Bono?

            @H
            What did I say that’s not true?

            I’m not selfish at all and want the minimum amount of death possible. What did I say that’s selfish?

            I’m happy to catch covid to get immunity except I think I already had it in January 2020 as did many of us.

          2. Robert Warren

            Its the risk to the health service which was in crisis to begin with.
            Due to the HSE being overrun by covid patients, normal healthcare has taken a back seat.
            How many people have had delayed diagnosis which will affect their outcome?

          3. Cian

            @Cui Bono?
            I’m happy to catch covid to get immunity except I think I already had it in January 2020 as did many of us.

            Wow, such a hipster – you had Covid before it was a thing!

          4. Cui Bono?

            @Cian
            It’s well known that covid was in Europe in November and December of 2019 so yes it was here in January 2020 too.

            Did you just ignore the data on this when it came out?

          5. Cian

            “well known” eh?
            hmmm.. was Covid widespread across Europe in late 2019 or early 2020? Because the data suggests it wasn’t. That winter had below average deaths.

          6. Cui Bono?

            @George
            There’s nothing dumber than being afraid of a virus that has an IFR of 0.05% for under 70s.

            @Cian
            When it passed through society in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb the main groups exposed were the majority of us moving about society as normal. We are not vulnerable to it so you would not see excess deaths here.

            It eventually made its way into the more shielded environments in hospitals and care homes(sent sick patients into care homes) when unfortunately old and already sick people died in March and April.

          7. Cian

            @Cui Bono?
            if this were true we’d all be immune at this stage… and the numbers in Ireland and across Europe are suggesting that we still have a long way to go.

            And if, as you say, “the main groups exposed were the majority of us moving about society as normal” how come it didn’t hit the vulnerable. Because “the majority of us moving about society” are constantly interacting with the elderly and the sick.

            If the was Covid in Ireland prior to Feb 2020 it must have been a tiny number of people.

            Oh, and There’s nothing dumber than being afraid of a virus that has an IFR of 0.05% for under 70s.
            The reason people are afraid is that it killed 10% of the over 65s that got it.

          8. Cui Bono?

            @Cian
            Again you continue to make the same mistakes.

            Most of the vulnerable are in hospital and care homes so not walking about in society.

            It did not kill 10% of the over 65s that got it. Most people, including those over 65 who had covid did not get tested for it. It was really hard and took so long to get a test back in March 2020. Most peoples symptoms are mild or non existent that they didnt get tested too.

            Even the WHO has said that the real total number of cases is far higher than what we caught.

            Stop denying reality and deliberately making the same mistakes over and over again.

    2. freewheeling

      >how can they work with patients and be so selfish

      Because they’re planning to be alive and healthy precisely so they help many patients in their career for many decades to come. Won’t be any use to any patients if they develop myocarditis, etc., early in life.

      Reply
    3. K. Cavan

      You shouldn’t even be allowed trot out your vile fascist opinions in public, H. People like you should be thrown out of any decent society.

      Reply
  1. SOQ

    Good for them- let these bullies prove their case in a court of law- a case which is getting more discredited by the day of course.

    Reply
  2. Eamon McLoughlin

    Don’t be two selfish little cows, walking weapons of death, spewing pathogens to a huge degree, and blocking beds for those that deserve them. Flippin’ heck – it’s the 5% that you two represent that are burdening the health system. Why do you think you haven’t caught Polio, Smallpox, mumps, measels, rubella, and more? That’s right you supposedly educated snowflakes; VACCINES!!!! FFS.

    Reply
      1. Cui Bono?

        It’s perfectly normal to be entitled to choose what goes into our own bodies.

        Do you really think that unvaccinated people are all carrying covid around and spreading it?

        Most of us are already immune at this stage, unlike those who’re vaccinated.

        Reply
        1. Cian

          Why do you think there are more people with “natural immunity” (previous Covid infection) in the unvaxxed group than the vaxed group?

          Reply
          1. f_lawless

            Alternatively, 2 years down the line, the highly infectious virus is already endemic. The vast majority have already been exposed to it. As per WHO estimates, for most it was a mild to asymptomatic experience. But, as Dr Mike Williams postulates in this article, there’s evidence which suggests that the Covid vaccines can hamper the body’s innate immune system’s response. Furthermore the adaptive immune system of the vaccinated has been trained in such a way that it’s becoming increasingly poorer over time at responding to the virus- not as effective against emerging strains and antibodies are waning over time anyway.

            Mass vaccination (rather than targeted) has prolonged the situation rather than improve it.

            https://www.ukcolumn.org/index.php/article/what-explains-rising-cases-among-the-vaccinated

            “In summary

            Developing evidence suggests that an intrinsic component of the innate immune system called toll-like receptors, tasked with recognising and activating the immune system to respond to bacteria and viruses, may be altered after vaccination. That alteration may hamper the immune system’s ability to detect and act appropriately against SARS-CoV-2 — inducing, in part, an Immune Tolerance, and increasing the risk of significant infection.

            The innate immune system, contrary to prior held views, can ‘remember’ past infections demonstrating a crucial adaptive ability called Immune Training and is essential to fight infection.

            Current data may highlight vaccine-induced Immune Tolerance as a divergence between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, with an increase in case and mortality rates amongst the vaccinated compared to the Immune Trained unvaccinated.”

          2. Cian

            because we’re more likely to be living life as normal for the last 2 years.

            sadly this is most likely true. The stupid/selfish people that didn’t give a fupp about protecting the vulnerable in 2020 still don’t give a fupp in 2021.

          3. Cui Bono?

            @Cian
            That’s not true. You’re a hypocrite and projecting. You don’t care that government policy sent sick hospital patients into care homes where they died. You are probably just a government shill paid to troll this site and others.

      1. Micko

        Same as Chicken Pox (varicella). That’s an even greater risk for kids – and we had feckin parties for that when we were kids to catch it.

        “The fatality rate for varicella was approximately 1 per 100,000 cases among children age 1 through 14 years, 6 per 100,000 cases among persons age 15 through 19 years, and 21 per 100,000 cases among adults.”

        https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/varicella.html

        The reason is menticide.

        Reply
        1. Frank

          I’ve been saying that for a long time on here Micko.
          Chicken Pox can kill an immunocompromised child and is also incredibly serious for pregnant women.

          Reply
          1. johnny

            who else was going pay…oh right the state,does private not cover it ?

            “I had to pay for my kid to get it as it wasn’t on the list…

            what is it in IRL 100-150?

          2. Micko

            It was added to Ireland’s immunisation schedule in October 2016

            https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/pcischedule/vpds/menb/

            My daughter was born in 2014. So I chose to get her immunised against it as that is a disease that can statistically harm her and was not covered by the state.

            There is two doses, each about €130 at the time (If I remember) – so nearly €300. It was not covered by my private health insurance.

            It is now free for all children.

      2. North Gay George's Treat

        That’s right SOQ, it’s been proven time and time again that it’s just a flu! Why won’t they just accept that?

        Reply
    1. Frank

      Eamon McLoughlin
      If you called my daughter/sister/mother a “cow” for exercising their principled opinion and indeed their constitutional right.
      I would knock your hat off sir.
      …and do a poo poo in it.

      Reply
    2. John Smith

      @Eamon McLoughlin
      ‘Don’t be two selfish little cows…

      This is such a load of spite-laden bile that I did wonder if it was intended as satire. However, asuming you really mean it and as there are others who certainly do mean it when they say similar things, I make a few comments:

      1. Do not equate the vaccines you mention, such as the one for polio, with the vaccine-type medication that is on offer for Covid-19. It works differently and the arguments for or against it are different.

      2. You do not know why these students do not wish to be vaccinated. For example, they or others suffering this unfair discrimination, may have medical reasons for not being vaccinated. Would those who are labelling them ‘selfish little cows’ apply the same term in that case? Everyone has the moral right and should have the legal right to be treated equally, regardless of vaccination status, but those who cannot be vaccinated are, in that sense, being doubly discriminated against.

      3. ‘Walking weapons of death, spewing pathogens to a huge degree’ – not being vaccined doesn’t make anyone spew anything. You can only pass on pathogens if you have them in the first place. As is clear and as even Holohan has stated (10 Nov, 21 – message on gov.ie), the vaccinated can be infected and spread the virus but a certificate that is worthless in that respect allows them to go to places where the unvaccinated are not allowed and to spread the virus, if they have it, in those places.

      Reply
    3. K. Cavan

      Eamon, you think the mRNA injections are the same as the inoculations which protect people from the diseases you mention, which means you’re simply too ignorant to be commenting on this subject. Being supported by the likes of you is bad news for any cause or any side of an argument, because if utterly empty-headed wind-bags like you support something, it’s sure to be bad news.

      Reply
      1. North Gay George's Treat

        Well said, the experimental genes therapy will only cause human mutants and we’ve enough to be dealing with already.

        Reply
    4. Jack ascinine

      Is there such a thing as a Darwin Award and an Oscar? A Doscar maybe? If so, you deserve it because you are one serious fucking idiot. You haven’t a page of evidence to backup any poo you’re spewing. The vaccine is bollox. You can’t prove me wrong.

      Reply
    1. Chris

      Last week’s deaths: 41 fully vaccinated 4 partially 0 unvaccinated. That is only in hospitals, rip.ie has loads of after a short illness, and died suddenly – young people too.

      Reply
        1. Fergalito

          What a petty remark to make. Conflating someone’s personal views on abortion with their personal views on the vaccine. Many people who are anti-abortion voted to allow others to make their own decisions and have a choice. This is a juvenile conflation on your part and narrow-minded.

          “My body, my choice”

          “Your body, your choice.”

          Reply
  3. Gavin

    I can see both sides of the argument but you can’t change the rules for those who are in the middle of the last year of their education, they should facilitate via regular testing. I get doing it for new joiners.

    Reply
    1. ce

      Started a course during a pandemic… don’t do Covid vaccines… will be in a position of giving medical advice to other people…

      face palm…

      Reply
      1. Gavin

        Yes they started a course where there was no requirement to have a vaccine, they offered to do regular tests, something which most countries facilitate, but have been blanked. If this is about the safety of patients every person interacting with patients should be getting tested daily, a jab and cert does next to nothing to stop the spread.

        Reply
      2. The Dude

        If they don’t want to take the vaccine presently, there is nothing stopping deferral of studies until a later date when either the Covid crisis is over, or when they consider the vaccines safe.

        I suspect it will be a high threshold required to persuade the courts of their view, which is likely to require a great deal of effort and research, and consequently distract them from their studies.

        Perhaps they may be better suited to studying law, and possibly should look at that before initiating legal proceedings – which may be very costly in the event of an unsuccessful outcome.

        Reply
        1. SOQ

          Taking things away from people until they agree to do what you say isn’t giving them a choice, it is punishing them until they concede to your demands.

          It is bullying.

          Reply
      1. D. Ments. Yea?

        Olga’s arguments are calm, reasoned, evidence-based
        These two above on the other hand are appealing to emotion from a misplaced sense of entitlement.
        If they don’t like the current rules, fine, I respect their opinion, come back later when the rules change..

        Reply
          1. Micko

            Judging by the amount of money these kids have on their GoFundMe in the past 24hrs alone, there’s plenty of people on side with them who don’t think it’s misplaced.

            Lovely stuff

          2. Johnny

            Show me the money….KIDS……LOVELY STUFF…

            Hm….. We are two second year healthcare students training as a midwife and physiotherapist respectively, at Trinity College Dublin.’…

            Leave those kids alone,they adults.

          3. Micko

            Ah yeah sorry Johnny.

            Excuse my loose definition of these young adults as kids.

            It’s just when I look at 19 – 20 years olds I see them as “kids”.

            Glad that’s cleared things up for you now.

            P.S I sometimes refer to groups of women as “guys”

            As in ” how’s it going guys?”

            I’m sure your mind is blown.

          4. Johnny

            The LODSA MONEY followed by the KIDS was crass,they are adults attending university.

            Careers in oh say midwifery are sometimes second ones,or after say a few years, working in the wellness/healthcare fields,I have no idea the age these young adults,nor do I care speculate on how much LOVELY STUFF is involved,but fill your boots…..just leave those kids alone.

          5. Micko

            “The bang of inferiority complex off you”

            I think you’re sarcasm-o-meter is stuffed Brian.

            In fairness, I was subtle, so I’ll try to be over the top ‘Father Ted’ style sarcasm in future so you can play along.

            Also “Mica” – eh eh eh? Looks like you listened earlier about not repeating yourself.

            I give you 3.5 Clown points. Well done

          6. Micko

            Not sure there was a point in there “J-Dawg” (I’m in with the NY lingo eh?)

            But thanks for playin all the same.

        1. K. Cavan

          You seem to believe that rules are moral & good, by dint of being rules. The argument of fascists throughout history. It wasn’t true in any of the historical dictatorships you would’ve felt at home in & it isn’t true now.
          You’re floating in a sea of retarded fascist delusion, D.

          Reply
    1. E'Matty

      Exactly, the level of ignorance and obnoxiousness on display from the likes of Eamon, ce, D.Meants, H etc is absolutely nauseating. These fools are so utterly brainwashed at this stage they have detached themselves from any connection to scientific reality in what they say. It’s truly a cult-like religion now and these clowns are the zealous parishioners looking for these girls to be sent to the laundries.

      Reply
      1. D. Ments. Yea?

        Yea that’s exactly what we are doing.
        If you are a made up e-creature matty I doff my virtual cap to Bodger’s creativity.

        Reply
        1. K. Cavan

          At least you’re not the typical shy fascist that we produce so many of in Ireland, D. You’re not even in denial & that’s good. From this point, admitting you have a problem, you can start the long, arduous journey to becoming a decent, well-adjusted, human being.
          Only joking, you should just fashion yourself a swastika & go for a little march.

          Reply
          1. D. Ments. Yea?

            I just went for a very brisk walk there in the early afternoon sunshine – how did you know? I’m really pleased at receiving your seal of approval btw, it means a lot.

      1. K. Cavan

        If this sort aren’t put in the trash where they belong, they’ll be the ones patrolling the barbed wire fences & turning on the gas taps.
        These people are genuine, true, fascist scum. The lowest sort of subhuman garbage.

        Reply
  4. Kappa

    This is coming from the HSE not TCD, the HSE have made vaccinations mandatory for all students doing placements on HSE properties.

    Reply
    1. Gavin

      If this is about the safety of patients every person interacting with patients should be getting tested daily, a jab and cert does next to nothing to stop the spread.

      Reply
      1. paval

        A vaccinated person is at lower risk of contracting Covid19 and therefore spreading it in a healthcare setting compared to an unvaccinated person. Sure daily tests might be more effective, but not practical when you have 100k healthcare workers in the country. HSE have a duty of care to their patients and requiring clinical placements to be vaccinated is justified in that regard.

        Reply
        1. SOQ

          Absolutely not true- a vaccinated person has just as much chance of being infected and transmission as a non- how many times do we have to go through this?

          Reply
          1. Cian

            Wrong.

            1. Vaccinated people are less likely to get cOvId and
            2. if they are a breakthrough case they will be infectious for a shorter period.

            How many times do we have to go through this?

          2. SOQ

            I have asked this else where- taking into account the rapid waning of these vaccines, please provide evidence that for any sustained period of time, they prevent infection.

            Common sense should tell you that if the efficacy against serious illness is waning so much, so fast- then so will any semblance of protection against transmission.

            It’s not a fixed metric- it is very transient.

          3. f_lawless

            @Ritchie – I think that Conversation article you linked to is a classic example of journalists writing on subjects that either they’re unqualified to write about and/or they’re intentionally looking to mislead the reader. Take this sample paragraph with which links to two different studies:

            “While the peak load may be similar, vaccinated people are likely to have lower viral load overall , and therefore be less contagious

            While the Conversation article is very recent (dated 17 Nov 21), the two studies they link to are now effectively outdated in what is a rapidly evolving situation.

            The first study linked to looked at cases from back during the period May 20- July 10, The study itself notes a trend in declining vaccine efficacy. By the final week in July, “44% of infections occurred in fully vaccinated individuals, reflecting imperfect vaccine effectiveness against infection despite high overall levels of vaccination”

            The second link claiming the vaccinated are “less contagious” directs to a study which only covered the period way from back in Dec 2020 – Feb 2021. making it pretty much obsolete at this stage.

          1. SOQ

            And that is the thing that really bugs me- people who test + are going to self isolate. And yet, we are not to be trusted to do the right thing in such circumstances.

            It is insulting- especially coming from a bunch of chancers who couldn’t even lie straight in a bed.

        2. Mikasa

          A UK government health agency publishes a fortnightly vaccine surveillance report, the latest of which can be found here …

          https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1034383/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-46.pdf

          By scrolling down to table 6 – looking at the left-hand column – a comparison can be made between the infection rate of the vaccinated versus un-vaccinated.

          In several age groups the rate of infection in the vaccinated is twice that of the unvaccinated, making a mockery of the current restrictions here in Ireland.

          Reply
  5. Responsible Citizen

    They are studying in healthcare, yet refuse to accept science and worse want to endanger any patients they come into contact with?

    Bunch of selfish muppets who should immediately be ejected from the course

    Reply
      1. Fred

        But not you Chris, you have known everything all along, it must be terribly frustrating for you to not have been listened to from the start. At least you are being proven right now, finally. Fill your cup!

        Reply
  6. Cian

    This may be relevant to the discussion:

    The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg ruled on Thursday [April 2021] that compulsory vaccinations would not contravene human rights law — and may be necessary in democratic societies.

    https://www.dw.com/en/echr-rules-obligatory-vaccination-may-be-necessary/a-57128443

    Note: This wasn’t about Covid, but about a Czech law saying children must be vaccinated against nine diseases including diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, hepatitis B and measles.

    Reply
    1. K. Cavan

      Incorrect, Cian, it is very much about the fake vaccines & has nothing to do with inoculation. Any child inoculated against those diseases has, by definition, very strong immunity, there is no need to enforce such measures.
      The ECHR functions normally to restrict individual human rights, that’s what it’s there for, the name is chosen to be deliberately misleading. The ECHR has never protected any human rights, it actually does quite the opposite, it imposes the will of unelected bureaucrats onto unwilling populations by giving the patina of legitimacy to dictatorship.

      Reply
      1. delacaravanio

        The ECHR functions normally to restrict individual human rights, that’s what it’s there for, the name is chosen to be deliberately misleading.

        The ECHR has never protected any human rights, it actually does quite the opposite, it imposes the will of unelected bureaucrats onto unwilling populations by giving the patina of legitimacy to dictatorship.”

        That’s just completely and wholly untrue, unless of course your definition of human rights is totally warped.

        Reply
        1. delacaravanio

          The ECHR functions normally to restrict individual human rights, that’s what it’s there for, the name is chosen to be deliberately misleading. The ECHR has never protected any human rights, it actually does quite the opposite, it imposes the will of unelected bureaucrats onto unwilling populations by giving the patina of legitimacy to dictatorship.

          That’s just completely and wholly untrue, unless of course your definition of human rights is totally warped.

          Reply
  7. V aka Frilly Keane

    Finally

    A High Court challenge that actually has some substance
    And authentic motives moving it

    This may well be the one that establishes that people’s right to make their own health care choices has been interfered with

    And they have established above that they are prepared to take additional measures regarding PPE and personal behaviour themselves, to ensure their decision only affects them

    This is getting a full hearing folks

    Hon’ Bríd
    Hon’ Inés

    All the best with it girls
    V

    Reply
    1. K. Cavan

      No, Frilly, you must know that those “rights” have been erased, along with almost every other right that makes putting up with the bourgeoisie & their nonsense endurable. You can’t seriously believe that the Irish High Court will rule against Bill Gates’ desire to thin the herd, where have you been for the last two years?

      Reply
  8. fluffybiscuits

    They are right too. Much in the same way I want to drive over the speed limit, drink a few pints before getting into my car.

    And know what, they will screw up and I’ll be thrilled

    There are ten grounds of discrimination under the Equal Status Act,none of which covers these entitled kids

    And yes the vaccine reduces transmission

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/amp/

    Reply
    1. Chris

      False equivalence. There are no grounds whatsoever that people should be forced or coerced into taking part in medical trials.

      Reply
    2. K. Cavan

      If you still believe that mRNA injections can stop transmission, when even inoculation is not designed to prevent transfection, you’re probably writing your letter to Santa about now?
      No treatment ever invented can do that, it’s literally impossible.
      You really have no idea what you’re talking about.

      Reply
  9. eamonn

    Good Luck to them.
    I hope they succeed, primarily because I agree with their stance on this issue.
    It can’t be an easy option for them to take, would be so much easier to take your jabs and jog on.
    Stand Tall.

    Reply
  10. K. Cavan

    Only a mad, ranting fascist lunatic would oppose these womens’ right to declare “my body, my choice”.
    Only a self-delusional retard, stuck forever in denial of reality, deeply entrenched in a refusal to face cold, hard facts, could possibly still believe in the efficacy of these toxic injections.
    The jabs are a busted flush, accept it & move on.
    The “boosters” look like a real-life case of the insanity of doing the exact same thing over & over, expecting a different result but, of course, that is not stupidity at all because those who are using power & violence to enforce fake science are not stupid at all, they are evil incarnate.
    You will NEVER BE FULLY-VACCINATED, until you’re dead.

    Reply
    1. SOQ

      Agreed- the only real difference between the vaxed and the unvaxed is that the unvaxed will never suffer from a vax injury.

      Reply
  11. Rob_G

    Well, at least now with the publicity surrounding the court case, no Irish hospital will ever give either these gobpoos a job.

    Reply

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