29 thoughts on “Something Else

  1. just millie

    My daughter, as I mentioned before, was hospitalised last year because of the complications which arose around her autoimmune condition due to her having had covid. When she was admitted it was because of how covid had affected her illness, not because of having covid itself. However, had she not had covid she would not have required hospitalisation at all.

    Just because she wasn’t suffering from the ‘usual’ side effects of covid that doesn’t mean she didn’t suffer because of it at all. If you were to look at her records, it would note that she’d had covid at time of admission, but it was not what she was admitted for.

    1. scottser

      i think that’s understood millie. a mate of mine’s mother in law has copd and if she was to get covid she would probably be hospitalised under her existing condition but as with your little one, she would be classed as ‘with’ covid and counted in the stats. i’m not a fan of the ‘most people in hospital are there with a broken leg, it’s a coincidence they have covid and the stats are lies’ sort of argument.

    2. Micko

      It’s a very nuanced situation.

      Clearly there’s lots of people like you guys family members that wouldn’t be in hospital if it wasn’t for Covid and yet they are marked down with something else.

      And there are people in the opposite camp. The “broken leg and test positive” people.

      One thing I think that we can all be hopeful about, is that thanks to the explosion in cases and steady death rate in Ireland, the IFR has plummeted down to 0.6%.

      It was about double that in November

      Hopefully it’ll continue to fall.

      1. Nigel

        ‘It’s a very nuanced situation.’

        It’s not that nuanced. People get sick and have to go to hospital. Hospitals are currently full of people with covid. If you are sick and go to hospital and catch covid, or catch covid on the way, you are in serious risk of a severe dose or worse. So you either seek treatment in hospital and risk catching covid or you don’t get treatment. Meanwhile, loads of staff are out sick, making things even worse. Oh wait, it is quite nuanced, but not in a ‘both sides have a point’ way. People trying to leverage this into ‘the pandemic is fake’ are being their normal despicable selves.

        1. Micko

          “ you are in serious risk of a severe dose or worse.”

          Approx 0.02% of current Covid infections are in ICU
          0.2% of current Covid infections are in Hospital.

          Would you count those figures as “serious risk”?

          No one is saying it is fake – Omicron is turning out to be a game changer.

          “Meanwhile, loads of staff are out sick, making things even worse”

          That’s a policy issue. Which will be rectified on Friday I believe- hopefully.

          1. Nigel

            ‘Would you count those figures as “serious risk”?’

            A dose that doesn’t end up in the ICU can still count as severe, you know. Also if cases keep rising, that 0.02% is going to represent larger and larger numbers.

            ‘Omicron is turning out to be a game changer.’

            No, it’s a variant, different from the previous ones. If another variant comes along it could be better, or it could be worse. Anything else is a dumb assumption.

            ‘That’s a policy issue.’

            It’s a bit more than that. Reducing safety margins because of pressure on the system is not great.

          2. Nigel

            Bit worried about the people with underlying conditions and vulnerabilities in the middle of a massive spike in cases.

        2. Mr.T

          If say, 10% of the population got covid in a week, then it follows that 10% of hospital admission that week are likely to incidentally have covid also, because of community spread.

          Now we havent been seeing 10% infection rates (or anywhere near it) for most of pandemic, but when you factor in that someone incidentally admitting for covid will be classed as a covid case in hospital for up to 14days after initial test, it means quite a few incidental admissions can build up.
          So for example if even 1% of population had covid in a given week, you could see up to 14%* of hospital inpatients being incidental covid admissions (assuming 1% of admission incidental per day, and no incidental discharges during the period)

  2. Nigel

    ‘You’re sick and you need to go to hosptial, which is full of people with a highly communicable disease that attacks most of your organs. But don’t worry, apart from that, it’s a fake pandemic. Good luck!

    1. bell

      Firstly:
      “‘You’re sick and you need to go to hospital, which is full of people with a highly communicable disease that attacks most of your organs. ”
      This is an untrue statement. “Full of people”???

      Secondly:

      Holohan stated that Over 90% of people in hospital and intensive care with COVID-19 are there for the management of #COVID19
      The Heads of EDs contradicted this figure.

      HSE said they don’t know

      Same old story since this pandemic started, nphet and government have made a conscious decision to manage the public through fear.

      1. Nigel

        ‘This is an untrue statement’

        Seems like lots of people in hospital have covid, not surw what’s untrue about it.

        ‘HSE said they don’t know’

        Getting sick and going to hospital and catching covid is pretty bad and risky, you know.

        ‘conscious decision to manage the public through fear.’

        This has been a dumb chrage since people started making it. You want fearmongering, talk to people screaming this is a global genocide conspiracy.

        1. bell

          Sorry you are the fearmonger

          Hospitals are “full of people with a highly communicable disease that attacks most of your organs. ”

          This statement is untrue on every level.

          1. Nigel

            Except it is true. There are 1,011 people in Irish hospitals with covid today. Factor in the staff out sick, and they’re jammers.

            You didn’t know that after infecting the lungs covid attacks the other organs in the body? What, did you actually believe the clowns claiming it’s just a cold or like the flu?

    2. Mr.T

      Nigel, hospitals as treatment centres for a number of ailments, are always full of different diseases and infections. Some of which communicable – thats why they put infection control measures in place.

      What point are you trying to make? That hospitals are hotbeds of infection (and quite a few covid cases are hospital acquired infection)? Because that I agree with.

      1. Nigel

        ‘Some of which communicable’

        When was the last time and Irish hospitlsl had 1,011 patients all with the same highly communicable disease, with a significant number of staff out sick?

        1. Mr.T

          Source on the staff being out “sick”?

          Having to isolate does not mean sick.

          As for hospital strain, well last big flu season was 17/18 – although peak confirmed cases in hospital at any one time were around 500. That said, influenza is much more dangerous than omicron variant of covid19, so situation then was arguably worse than present.

          1. Oro

            That’s not how that works lol. There’s a certain threshold of how sick someone is before being admitted to hospital, so if there are twice as many covid patients rn as there were at that one single point in that flu outbreak it still means it’s twice as bad for the current specific moment in time.

            Now bear with me for the next part, how many weeks during that flu outbreak did those numbers stay the same? Now compare that with covid. I’m guessing two weeks versus two years? So which is ‘arguably worse’?

  3. Doxxy Chainsaw

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/13/my-bile-rises-as-im-asked-to-move-my-dying-cancer-patient-out-of-icu-to-make-room-for-an-unvaccinated-man-with-covid

    With intensive care at capacity, I am being asked to move my patient to make room for another. “After all, your patient does have incurable cancer.”

    My bile rises. And even as I know it’s a petty question, I can’t help asking: “Is the Covid patient vaccinated?”

    “No,” he says wearily. “That’s why he is so sick.”

    1. Mr.T

      Lol, reads like a load of made-up waffle.

      “4 year-old’s last words before dying of covid: “I wish I could have gotten the vaccine””

  4. SOQ

    You know the whole corrupt scam is unravelling when even CNN is questioning the difference between ‘from’ and ‘with’. Not that I blame the US hospitals mind, because the payments for CoVid-19 patients are so much higher than other conditions- they encouraged to record as such.

    One thing us Europeans may not fully realise is how money orientated the US health system is. Even just getting an ambulance costs thousands and in some cases, a mother is actually charged for holding her new born baby- it really is a different world, where getting sick could result in bankruptcy and losing your home.

    1. Nigel

      ‘One thing us Europeans may not fully realise is how money orientated the US health system is.’

      You know who stringently opposes anything like a socialised public health system in the US? The same people making it illegal to take any measures in response to the pandemic in order to pander to their anti-vaxx base.

      1. SOQ

        Well again applying European metrics, I really don’t think either of the US parties are left of centre. The republicans may be more nationalistic but the Democrats are very globalist- both of which are right wing ideologies.

        In the case of their health system, the Democrats had plenty of opportunities to do something about it but big Pharma rules there so God help you if you get sick.

        This also ties into workers rights of course where health insurance is paid by the employer, so losing you job is more serious than here, because your entire family maybe no long have access.

        It’s a great place if you are rich, but not so much if you are poor.

        1. Nigel

          ‘In the case of their health system, the Democrats had plenty of opportunities to do something a’

          They introduced Obamacare, an incredibly mild and limited sort of socialised medicine over the howls and screams of the Republicans, who did everything in their power to roll it back. Big Pharma and insurance companies are massively powerful in the US but they can’t be made to vaish with the click of a finger. One party, the party which treats covid as something to be talen seriusly, works to privide access to public health care, the other opposes it with every fibre of their being, the same way they oppose pandemic measures.

          And yeah, look at the US health system. The right over there have been generating culture war material against vaccines and pandemic responses since the beginning, all with an eye to making everywhere more like that. Where else do you think all this ferocious individual exceptionilism is going to lead?

      2. jonjoker

        It’s a strange argument you make, that the relationship between vaccinated people in the US and socialised medicine in the US somehow reflects something about people in Ireland. I don’t know if there’s any reason to believe this, I mean how can you extrapolate it to how Irish people in Ireland react to anything?

        Or is your argument that the vaccinated Irish are in favour of the Democrats while the Irish unvaccinated support the US Republicans? Any proof for this?
        and even if there was, so what?
        I have no intention to ever need Obamacare either way btw, so really your comment is meaningless for me.

        1. Nigel

          I can only comment about SOQ, who has expressed approval for Republucan policies on covid. Any extrapolation beyond that is at your own risk.

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