The Terror Of Free Speech [Updated]

at

This morning’s New York Post

This morning.

Via USA Today:

“A brave new nightmare.” Those words from former US Labor Secretary Robert Reich described the threat created by Elon Musk’s bid to restore free speech values by buying Twitter.

Yet, despite warnings that censorship is necessary “for democracy to survive,” neither the Tesla CEO and billionaire nor ordinary citizens appear to be sufficiently terrified of free speech. Twitter confirmed Monday that Musk will acquire the company in a deal worth $44 billion. Once the deal is complete, Twitter will become a privately held company.

Progressives, in the meantime, have adopted a dangerous shift in their strategy of calling for corporations to censor speech.

Last week, former President Barack Obama made this shift clear in his much covered speech at Stanford University. Just days after Musk re-enforced his bid for Twitter with the support of many in the free speech community, Obama warned that social media was “tilting us in the wrong direction.” He called for more censorship of disinformation while calling himself “pretty close to a First Amendment absolutist.”

Obama has never been viewed as an ally on free speech by those of us who have been attacked for our “absolutist” views. Moreover, calling for censorship as a free speech absolutist is like claiming to be a vegetarian while calling for mandatory meat consumption.

Elon Musk’s buying Twitter is good for free speech. And a ‘nightmare’ for progressives (USA Today)

Meanwhile…

Um.

Meanwhile…

Aw.

Poor little Mark.

Meanwhile…

Ah now.

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84 thoughts on “The Terror Of Free Speech [Updated]

  1. Kin

    The good thing is you do not need to use twitter and listen to the musky man and his view of the planet

    1. K. Cavan

      In case you’re unaware, Kin, Twitter is a Social Media website where millions of users express their views on whatever they feel like, not an editorial platform for speeches by the owner/owners.

  2. Gavin

    Good lord people have little to be doing, don’t use it if you don’t like it, but putting the reasonability for free speech on a for-profit company is stupid beyond belief

    1. Micko

      +1

      Watching some people freak out while others bang on about it as if it’s the second coming is pretty funny though.

      “They’re concerned about their mental health…” pffft – Go of the internet then – Problem solved in most cases.

          1. Nigel

            See? Evidence that I’m a paid shill? Zero. But that’s enough for SOQ to want me banned for disagreeing with him! Reactionary free speech advocates in a nutshell.

          2. K. Cavan

            Yes, paid shills have no place on social media, their presence is dishonest, a subterfuge by the State, their words disingenuous at best, propaganda in the worst cases.

  3. Nigel

    Andy Ngo? Continuing a trend there.

    You do know that the people who complain most about free speech have no actual interest in speech being free, right? They’re the same people who come up with their own concepts of wokism, cancel culture, CRT, trans rights activists, cultural marxism, all as categories of speech to be stamped out, and mostly it’s so they can be horrible and repressive without consequences to themselves.

    ‘calling for censorship as a free speech absolutist is like claiming to be a vegetarian while calling for mandatory meat consumption.’

    It’s insane that people are conflating free speech with floods of absolute lies, disinformation and propaganda. The people who think that we NEED MORE DISINFORMATION aren’t interested in any kind of actual freedom.

    1. Mr .T

      “It’s insane that people are conflating free speech with floods of absolute lies, disinformation and propaganda. The people who think that we NEED MORE DISINFORMATION aren’t interested in any kind of actual freedom.”

      Disinformation from the man complaining about disinformation – ironic wha
      You are totally misrepresenting what people are asking for Nigel, and you seem quite irate about the subject too.

      1. Nigel

        Well I can hardly be expected to sum up what EVERYONE is asking for in a single comment, can I? So I’ll confine myself to anyone who thinks spewing misinformation is free speech, or will generally accentuate freedom of speech, because that’s just propaganda from people who think one path to power is by ‘flooding the zone with 5h1t.’

        1. GiggidyGoo

          Is this, and all other areas you’ve touched upon under this article, areas of expertise for you Nigel?

          1. GiggidyGoo

            The usual run away comment when you reach the end of the road. You’re a busted flush once again.

          2. Nigel

            Well, you’re more comfortable with your pet catchphrases, but they hardly provide anything substantive to resopnd to, do they?

        2. K. Cavan

          It doesn’t matter if you condemn someone’s opinion as “misinformation” Nigel, it remains their opinion & what you think is irrelevant.

      2. K. Cavan

        He seems possessed of the idea that one person’s Free Speech can somehow be used to limit another person’s Free Speech.
        I think he’s finally cracked.

    2. Clampers Outside

      I don’t hear of anyone calling for those things to be banned, but for them to be freely criticised without the person criticising them being banned.

      But hey, you just do your hysterics there, it’s good for a giggle at least :)

      1. Nigel

        How can anyone plausibly claim that they are not being criticised? There was an entire television channel that branded itself as ‘anti-woke.’ British MPs go on about it. Republican legislators are briniging in laws banning something they call ‘CRT’ which has nothing to do with actual CRT. I refrain from including ‘reasonably’ because while there is a lot of grandstanding about those things, pretty much none of it is within an asses’ roar of being reasonable. The idea that these things are not being criticised is is simply untrue – they get constantly attacked and villified in national and international media – but then again, so is most of what passes for criticism. What they are is framed as some sort of looming threat, as dangerous, corrupting influences that undermine freedom and society and harm children. This is obviously a lie, but if they’re willing to lie about it, at such volume, what else are they willing to do, justified by that lie?

        1. Clampers Outside

          Segregating children in schools by the colour of their skin is racist, no matter how it is dressed up by those who use the CRT book. And of course it is not the university level CRT but a watered down version of, and it is the derivative of that that is racist nonsense that should not be taught in schools, and should not be tolerated no matter for the same reasons that any racism should not be tolerated.
          The claims that it is not CRT is semantics, the actions, such as the segregation example above are explicit, and with numerous examples.

          1. Nigel

            Nobody is segregating children by the colour of their skin through something called CRT. (They’ve been economically and educationally segregating poorer kids of colour into poorly-resourced schools for decades now, but that’s just the Market, or something.) Just not happening. Claiming it’s not CRT isn’t semantics, it’s the truth, they are lying, and they are lying up and down about the whole thing, and you believe them, which is not surprising, but indicative of how this works – people who claim to be free speech absolutists create a culture war shibboleth and then legislate against it, using it as cover to silence particular voices, and people like you insist on taking obvious bad faith actors at their word.

        2. K. Cavan

          What the hell are you jabbering about, Nigel, most TV channels are rabidly Woke, so one channel is entirely free to be opposed to it, it provides some little opposition, if not an actual balance of media power. It’s not even in Europe, anyway. The print media is almost totally, mindlessly, Woke. Both the BBC & RTE, which are State-sponsored, are unwatchable for anyone who’s opposed to Woke Dogma.
          Almost all of the powerful Oligarchs who control everything from subscription TV channels to your local politician are promoting Woke Dogma, as a way of attacking people they wish to subjugate & control. The entire Corporate World is pumping money into Woke causes & adopting its Dogma in their advertising & employment practices.
          That’s the reality, no matter what lies you utter.

    3. Clampers Outside

      Funny to though that you give out about disinformation while you run around the Web telli g people a woman has a penis, sex change is possible, puberty blockers are reversible, the Wi Spa incident was faked, and all the other disinformation and fake news you clearly eat up… Jeez man, get some self awareness! :)

      1. Nigel

        The existence of trans people is disinformation? See? People like you want to wipe particular groups out of existence while cliaming you’re devoted to free speech.

        1. Clampers Outside

          Lol, there you go, intentionally misinterpreting the specifics of what I said so that you can make claims of saying something I did not say…. You are a disinformation practitioner at work. Thank you for your clear demonstration of what you do… One of very many.

          1. Nigel

            The specifics of what you said are just lazy anti-trans buzz phrases that you trot out repeatedly every time someone says something supportive of trans people.

          2. Clampers Outside

            Nobody said persons with gender incongruence as the WHO now calls it don’t exist.

            But you keep saying people have said it, you keep saying I said it by intentionally misinterpreting – ie, spreading misinformation – about what I said.
            I guess this banging of your head against a wall is what happens when you’ve spent so long in an ideological echo chamber… Such a pity.

          3. GiggidyGoo

            There are two sexes. Male (Man – born with a willie) and Female (Woman – born without a willie)
            ‘Trans’ is not a sex. It’s a feeling of being / wanting to be identified the opposite sex. That feeling can be certified by the state – and likewise that certification can be rescinded by the state.

          4. Nigel

            If you agree with me that teans people exist, Clampers why does my saying so cause you to flip out.

            Correct Giggidy ‘trans’ isn’t a sex.

          5. K. Cavan

            He has to be a shill, Clampers, has to be. No-one could seriously present this as the rational opinion of a sane individual. I’m surprised he didn’t accuse you of wanting to murder Trans People.

    4. Duncan Wheeler

      And you would be the person who decides what are outright lies Niggle. You really haven’t a clue what you’re writing about. Just word salad droning on in the same way over and over again with zero evidence for any of your positions, just pulling words out of the air.

    5. K. Cavan

      You’ve made some hysterically irrational posts on this forum, Nigel but this is a doozy.
      When have those who advocate Free Speech ever repressed or tried to “stamp out” Woke Dogma?
      How did they censor Wokists? By what means?
      When have they ever even expressed the slightest interest in doing so?
      Why are those who advocate Free Speech & those who oppose Woke Ideology the same people?
      And the corollary, why are those who espouse Woke Dogma inevitably also opposed to Free Speech?
      How can you possibly, seriously believe that the subjective opinion of one person, that another person’s opinion is “disinformation”, justify the censorship or banning of that opinion or person?
      You have some neck, I’ll grant you that, coming on here, spouting this arrogant, idiotic, neo-fascist nonsense.
      It’s clear you are a paid shill, nobody could possibly advance the utter jibberish you’re stating here, unless they were being disingenuous.
      That, or certifiably insane.
      Get out, you charlatan.

    1. TenPin Terry

      And Speedos.
      Don’t forget the Speedos.
      Otherwise I’ll become concerned about my mental health too.
      What a crock.

  4. Hughie Luas

    “Local lad doesn’t begrudge Twitter employees working from home and with free meals in Dublin 2, but says Elon Mushk is some lad all the same.”

    Shut down the Twitter HQ in Dublin and make it a homeless shelter.

  5. Junkface

    Seeing all of the over reactions to Musk’s takeover of twitter is hilarious! My God, whingeing authoritarians have filled up the left wing culture and politics. 30 years ago it was the hysterical right wing Baptists and Christian puritans who were trying to ban rap music and violent video games, and the left fought hard in US courts for freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Now its done a complete 180, showing how little principles are understood on both sides, but right now particularly on the left. Really pathetic people.

    Freedom of speech is essential to democracies. Get used to it darlings.

    1. Kali

      + 1

      Some people have been getting there way too long and now cry if anyone disagrees with them. The crackdown on any type of dissenting opinion is disturbing. Maybe Musks ownership of Twitter might start a reversal of the trend.

    2. Nigel

      ’30 years ago it was the hysterical right wing Baptists and Christian puritans’

      Don’t worry, they’re still here, and they’ll protect you from the woke virus and cancel culture and CRT. Meanwhile, PepeFrog1457 will be able to threaten to rape Wokegrrl143, thereby preserving democracy and freeedom of speech. Or maybe free speech absolutist Musk will work out that a vast popular social media platform can’t actually function properly without content moderation.

      1. Clampers Outside

        Just because he drew a comparison, doesn’t mean he supports the other as your comment clearly attempts to do.

        Pathetic.

        As for your examples, I see such threats on social media by your beloved Trans Rights Activists all the time. Be damned, all of them I say, both from your examples and theTRAs, but you give the TRAs a pass.

        As I said, pathetic.

        By the way, you should read the transition memoir of Prof Grace Lavery of Berkley California. A major TRA… who is clearly an autogenophile and an outright mysoginist. Someone for whom you advo ate should be allowed into women’s spaces.

        I haven’t read it, but I’ve read lots of extracts. The man, and they are a man, judged on their own words, is clearly a sexist fetishist who sees women as nothing more than body parts. Gross.

          1. Clampers Outside

            The point of the above is that there is never any attempt by TRAs to make a point of distinction between genuine trans / gender dysphoria persons and those who are clearly autogenophile.
            This is a failing of the TRA movement, one I have seen pointed out by many FTM trans persons.

            If the TRAs cannot make the effort to separate the two, then don’t expect those objecting to the trans lobby demands to make the distinction for them.

            The TRA movement is failing those it claims to represent.

          2. Nigel

            It’s not TRAs job to police whether individual trans people are ‘genuine’ or not. Is it even possible to do such a thing? Certainly not based on criteria set out by people openly hostile to the trans community. It’s not even TRAs job to police whether individual trans people are decent human beings or not. You know what it is when you blame an entire group on the actions of individuals within that group? Go on, see of you can work out what that is.

          3. Clampers Outside

            No Nigel, AGP is not the same as a genuine trans person with gender dysphoria.

            They are not the same group.

          4. Nigel

            AGP is something made up by transphobes to smear trans people with. People who hate trans people do not get to define trans people.

        1. Nigel

          He drew a comparison with something from thirty years ago as if the same sorts of people weren’t doing simialr things right now. For the evils of rap music and video games, substitute the evils of CRT and wokism and cancel culture.

          ‘As for your examples,’

          You do get it’s not either/or, right? If you think something should be done about those, you support content moderation and the banning of users for breaching guidlelines, and for ‘woke’ reasons, too.

          So you’ve read excerpts, and of course you trust wherever sourced those excerpts to be honest about content, context and interpretation, right? More than that, you expect this individual to be representative of trans women, based entirely on these excerpts? Or not? Am I supposed to condemn or pledge support for this person I’ve never heard of based on your obviously biased third-or-fourth hand account of a book you haven’t read? This is what you think reasonable criticism is?

          You keep saying to ‘support’ trans people, but you call this trans woman a man?

          1. Clampers Outside

            Your the one whoiscalling and supporting this person’s claims of being a trans person.
            I understand they are an autogenophile, and not someone who is incongruence with their gender/sex, but fetishises the idea of themselves as a woman.

            Big difference, but you see the two under this ‘trans’ umbrella, and it is persons like you who think this guy deserves access to women’s spaces, just like the guy in the Wi Spa incident parading his dick aroubd in front of a child, a little girl and her mother, among others. It’s you who has no problem with such fetishises getting access to women’s spaces.
            That couldn’t be any clearer with regard to your unadulterated mysoginy.
            .

          2. Nigel

            I know nothing about this person except your entirely unreliable and distorted view, and this spa thing is so ridiculously hateful and obviously contrived you should be ashamed for falling for it.

      2. Junkface

        Nigel, you need help. Still in that bubble! If you want to talk about rape threats and death threats, then trans activists are a good place to start. They are insane, and they have repeatedly threatened J.K.Rowling with rape and death. You need to take the fingers out of your ears and listen to a wider selection of sane people.

        Elon Musk is concerned with misinformation on both sides of arguments, and things like banning scientists for saying men cannot be women, which is a biological fact. We need science in particular to be able to function as it always has. Authoritarianism is failure for humanity, that’s what it comes down to. A healthy society learns how to debate terrible ideas, exposing them in front of an audience, therefore encouraging critical thinking and how to read facts.

        1. Nigel

          According to you and Clamps and nullzero, JK Rowling is the only person on the entire internet to be subject to any kind of abuse or harassment. Literally nobody else is sunject to that kind of thing, apparently.

          Elon Musk is concerned with a lot of things, ‘misnformation on both sides’ is not one of them. The idea that the richest man in the world is spending billions just to attack one small minority group in the name of freedom of speech is… well it’s actually all too believable at this stage.

          1. Junkface

            She was just one example (JKR) but it is now, any woman who goes against trans activism, there are also many lesbians who report the same threats, and former Olympic athletes. Don’t pretend that transwomen/men are caught up in a violent genocide in western democracies, because we debunked this before with a fact checker. Its a lie.

            I wonder how much you have listened to Elon Musk in discussion, because if you did you would clearly understand his position. It reflects many high profile STEM scientists, engineers, mathematicians, physics professors, who are concerned with future technology, the human mind, wars, Space travel.

          2. Clampers Outside

            “According to….” and the rest of that first para is just your made up nonsense.

          3. Nigel

            Junkface, I think you’ll fnd that women get abused and threatened on twitter for all sorts of reasons, but to be clear, you are in favour of content moderation to prevent this across the board? Because that’s wokism.

            I don’t really care about his views, to be honest, he’s just another billionaire, our de facto aristocracy whose patronage and good will we depend on more and more as they accumulate more wealth and power.

      3. K. Cavan

        Free Speech is people expressing their opinions, Nigel, trying to characterise it as some turd issuing rape threats is ludicrous.
        You’re a shill.

    3. TenPin Terry

      http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/twitter-under-elon-musk-will-be-a-scary-place-1.4862279?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

      The Irish Times doesn’t take long to come wailing in like a fire engine heading to the bonfire of the vanities that just inflamed even more.
      And my day just got even better.
      Dunno why as I’ve never been on social media in my life.
      But I haven’t see wailing and gnashing of teeth like this since the Brexit vote.
      You can only wonder how much the melting snowflakes are wetting themselves at Twitter HQ in Dublin.

      1. Micko

        The fact that Terry’s new Gravatar just happens to randomly have a monocle cracks me up no end…

        “I say old chap” ;-)

        1. TenPin Terry

          Indeed Micko.
          I congratulated Bodger for his immense good taste several days ago.
          A touch of sophistication old bean …

  6. Daisy Chainsaw

    Be interesting to see if Elon’s love of freeze peach extends to Twitter staff discussing unionising.

    1. K. Cavan

      Poor Daisy, she’s so upset at the idea of Free Speech, she can’t even bring herself to write the words. Are you worried some rando fash will make your feelings all hurty, Daisy?
      Oh dear, what a pity, never mind.
      Poor Daisy still thinks she’s in college, tweeting to her student friends about the KKK.
      You’re waaaay to old for that, Daisy.

    2. Daisy Chainsaw

      Poor KKKCavan will have nothing left to complain about soon. Nobody banning his free speech (there ya go), society open and returning to normal… even the MIBs following him and sticking him with boosters have been stood down! Must be awful to live in such fear. The stench in the basement must be intolerable by now.

  7. Hughie Luas

    Tim Westwood. Well, I never. BBC DJ, allegations of the usual…. etc. How could this be?

    1. K. Cavan

      Allegations of Waycism? Oh no, what will we do?
      Clutches pearls, swoons…
      Wow, Nigel, that proves everything you typed is twue, it’s all twue…
      Is that jackboots I can hear?
      No problem, it’s just the Azovs on the march to their new gaff, in Blanchardstown.

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